LOST Mafia Game Thread

[Naeann]

I do agree with DPR about SMC. That is the worst bout of metagaming I've ever seen. Stop with the attacks on people in THIS game for stuff they did/didn't do in the other game. New game... new roles.. new situation. Get over the fact that we blew major balls as innocents in the Avatar game and let's focus on this one.

[Vicious89x]

Vote Count

Lily (1)- SMC

Bleedin (1)- Smashmouth

Crusher (1)- Verbal

Brett (2)- CTM, AVM

AVM (1)- BrettFavre

Verbal (3)- JVoR, sharrow, lily

JiF (1)- PAC

CTM (1)- JiF

No Lynch (2) - DPR, Hess

With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch

[Vicious89x]

I do agree with DPR about SMC. That is the worst bout of metagaming I've ever seen. Stop with the attacks on people in THIS game for stuff they did/didn't do in the other game. New game... new roles.. new situation. Get over the fact that we blew major balls as innocents in the Avatar game and let's focus on this one.

Mod Note: I agree. Doggins game has no impact on how this game was formulated. It shouldn't be a mitigating factor. Focus Daniel-San

[SMC]

I do agree with DPR about SMC. That is the worst bout of metagaming I've ever seen. Stop with the attacks on people in THIS game for stuff they did/didn't do in the other game. New game... new roles.. new situation. Get over the fact that we blew major balls as innocents in the Avatar game and let's focus on this one.

Okay, so the fact that DPR brought up last game first in response to my post on his no lynch argument (where I never mentioned last game) is irrelevant.

Got it.

Last game has nothing to do with this game as Vic mentioned.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I am not in favor of no lynching. I see no great advantage to sacrificing our lynch while we are in a position to have "mislynches" available. For starters, there is no way of knowing what mafia is able to do at night. Kill, convert, etc.

We have no idea if mafia can convert multiple times, if a leader needs to be alive to convert. Conversion is not guaranteed in this game but it is likely and for now i have to act as if it is a possibility.

I just don't think there is enough upside to no lynching.

[DPR]

We've got nothign going cause the game just started.

regardless if we lynch town or scum today, we will get information.

Heck the game before last, your day 1 activities lead directly to your day 2 lynch. Had we no lynched at a similiar point in that game, we'd have not been able to lynch you so easily on day 2.

Offering no lynch so quickly isnt' a protown plan when it short circuits our best weapon, the ability to gather intel

You're confusing with the flip-flopping.

Here's the thing - I just voted that way to present it as an option. I didn't say you had to vote that way, or that we had to do it right now. It's just an option.

In other games, when you suspect a complex setup and you don't have much to go on, preserving an innocent could buy you a day at end game, when you know the most.

You do give up information, which is why you don't see a lot of no lynches. But, sometimes, they can be helpful.

I'm just looking at a climbing post count, a vote spreadof not more than 2 on anyone, and a lack of info. So I threw it out there. It was never meant to stir much of a reaction, and I'm curious why it did.

[SMC]

I'm just looking at a climbing post count, a vote spreadof not more than 2 on anyone, and a lack of info. So I threw it out there. It was never meant to stir much of a reaction, and I'm curious why it did.

LOL, because you engineered it that way by your reaction to other posts.

[CTM]

You dont say? This is mafia revelation right here...changes the whole game. To think we've been playing this game for so long and never took that into consideration. Smells fishy or scummy.

Unvote

Vote CTM

Only scum could think this advanced.

I was making the point in regards to using straight percentages to calculate odds.. you little weasel

[CTM]

You're confusing with the flip-flopping.

What flip flopping. My first post in regards to to your no lynch vote was "insanity"

[Sharrow]

I do agree with DPR about SMC. That is the worst bout of metagaming I've ever seen. Stop with the attacks on people in THIS game for stuff they did/didn't do in the other game. New game... new roles.. new situation. Get over the fact that we blew major balls as innocents in the Avatar game and let's focus on this one.

Lol, speak for yourself. I'm happy with the way I played last game. I made one mistake, and it was letting the rest of the town distract me.

[Sharrow]

I don't like no-lynching here either, tbh. It's not a terrible idea, but whose to say they won't just kill one of the inactives, and we're right back here tomorrow? I'd rather just leave my vote on Verbal.

[Smashmouth]

It's essentialy a defensive play because we got nothin' to go on.

We get information and to start D2 with one more townie. If you like your odds of hitting scum better, go for it.

And you start day 2 with nothing to go on as well, with one dead townie. What do you think is going to be revealed about the mafia in a NK ?

Whats better 1 dead townie and no information (basicly starting day 2 in the same spot) or 2 dead townies and the information a full vote might bring ? Also keeping in mind the 25 or so % chance we have to nail scum.

[HessStation]

It's possible, but there would be some twists in there to not make it as easy.

As to your question about killing the Godfather meaning a town win, that is not the case. Remember in the SW game Vic was the Godfather and he was lynched and the game went on. It's only a special win condition that means the killing of an individual player equals victory.

If we were to play with this idea I like what Sharrow was thinking in that MIB could change forms...or characters. Meaning if he were to be lynched he could swap himself with one of his "recruits". Sorry for paraphrasing what Sharrow was saying, he can confirm if he wants.

[Bleedin Green]

I know you guys asked my thoughts on specifics regarding who I had my eye on based on my prior comments. Sorry it took me so long to get back to this:

Looking back, I think AVM and slats were the guys who seemed to be in most agreement with me this topic, as well as SMC (sorta ). As far as those who stood out to me on the other side:

For those of you unfamiliar with the show the Man in Black is capable of converting Islanders . A character by the name of Ben Lynus is in charge of a group called the "others" who are enemies of the Islanders....

So... just from my knowledge of the characters my initial guess would be CL (man in black), and small scum team led by Ben Lynus - who would probably be the GF.

The main point was to let people know there's a strong possibility a recruitment role is in play. Vic even referred to the MIB's recruits in his opening scene.

With that being the case those with roles may want to avoid the quick reveal which has plagued so many games.

I'm thinking CL and a small scum team simply because we just had a conversion game and I don't think Vic would use that format again so soon.

Pac was the first one that caught my attention. The main things were not only his mentioned of recruitment, but numerous mentions of a cult and scum team, when the opening scene gave no indication in that direction. DPR jumped on the combo of both a clan and scum team at one point, which bears watching, since if Pac is town, it could be an easy way for scum to try to help push along someone else's theory.

Other's were strongly leaning in favor of scum teams at various points as well (CTM, smashmouth, sharrow, even hess and slats it seemed at one point). There were a few other people who pushed along the idea without getting too much into the discussion itself, which is always an area to watch as well.

Of course the other big one is Smashmouth's theory:

Bleedin the MIB obviously has powers and hes bad news so it would fit well that he has the power to either recruit or Take anothers form like he did in the show. If there was anything we can take from the show this is it. Nothing says he has to be in some form of cult like a standard mafia role I believe he is the leader and is starting out the game by himself. Giving him a team and the ability to recruit is way too over powered.

So I think this is the way its set up

1. MIB is the leader and starts out alone

2. He has the ability to recruit every other night starting on the first night.

3. Recruits have some type of post restriction

4. He has the ability to take over another players body 1 time in the game (since the show suggests this) he can only do this once. I would think he can do this at L-2 or L-1 most likely L-1.

5. then that player becomes the MIB and plays out the game as the leader.

Those are my thoughts, obviously a number of people don't agree with my thoughts that this is scummy (and clearly not all of those people are scum), and I feel like I'm being counter-productive continuing to talk about it when my whole point was not getting too caught up in the possibility of conversion/recruitment. So given that it seems we've had some new developments worth discussing, I'm going to move on from this topic for now, but I didn't want to completely ignore it given that I was directly asked about it a couple of times.

[Smashmouth]

It's essentialy a defensive play because we got nothin' to go on.

We get information and to start D2 with one more townie. If you like your odds of hitting scum better, go for it.

DPR what your saying here is we might as well start every mafia game off with no lynch is that a good idea ? Is this game different than any other ?

[Bleedin Green]

You dont say? This is mafia revelation right here...changes the whole game. To think we've been playing this game for so long and never took that into consideration. Smells fishy or scummy.

Unvote

Vote CTM

Only scum could think this advanced.

I've certainly got an eye on CTM, but you clearly can't possibly be serious with this crap. Is this more of your "I'm making a retarded argument to see if anyone agrees with it" nonsense? Or do you have a real reason for your CTM vote you would care to share?

[Naeann]

Lol, speak for yourself. I'm happy with the way I played last game. I made one mistake, and it was letting the rest of the town distract me.

You're gonna make me go look up who you were aren't you?

SMC... if that's the case.... *smacks DPR* Focus! You sucked at the Avatar game... I was set to lynch you for how scummy you were playing. Don't take it all out on Oscar.

[DPR]

And you start day 2 with nothing to go on as well, with one dead townie. What do you think is going to be revealed about the mafia in a NK ?

Whats better 1 dead townie and no information (basicly starting day 2 in the same spot) or 2 dead townies and the information a full vote might bring ? Also keeping in mind the 25 or so % chance we have to nail scum.

Dude, I already broke that down. Are you reading or skimming?

[DPR]

DPR what your saying here is we might as well start every mafia game off with no lynch is that a good idea ? Is this game different than any other ?

I also commented on this - I'll have to go back and find the posts.

[JustInFudge]

I've certainly got an eye on CTM, but you clearly can't possibly be serious with this crap. Is this more of your "I'm making a retarded argument to see if anyone agrees with it" nonsense? Or do you have a real reason for your CTM vote you would care to share?

I'm Batman

[Verbal]

Hold up. This is ridiculous. No lynch? Hell no. Hell no.

No lynch on Day 1 is almost always a bad play. Let's just give the mafia a free NK, shall we? Think they'll help us out and NK an active townie for us? Nah, how about they'll NK an inactive and let the town get no info from it. Then, as has been said, we start D2 in essentially the same position, but minus 1 townie.

Yeah, I get that you'll come back with "Why start D2 with 2 townies down then by lynching one today?"

Short Answer: We get more info that way.

Long Answer: Our greatest resource right now is the fact that we have a significant majority over the scum, and that majority is usually at it's highest peak on D1. We will likely lynch a townie, yes. But we'll get more reliable information from a lynch today then we will by packing our bags and fast forwarding to D2 (minus a NK that'll lend very little info for reasons stated above).

Oh, and SMC is right here. DPR stated his no lynch theory, and SMC came back with a rational response that neither attacked nor accepted his plan....he merely stated some numbers. DPR is the one that brought up play in last game -- to turn that around and say that SMC did it is 2 things: lame and a lie.

You guys have heard of "lynch all liars", right? My read on DPR right now is fuzzy, so I'm not voting for him. As I said, I'm sticking with my Crusher vote. But DPR just jumped to the top of my suspicion list for lying and trying to blame SMC for something he didn't do....but DPR did first.

TL;DR = No lynch is bad, let's lynch somebody today. DPR is lying, and is being a hypocrite. And I have gas.

Ok, I don't have gas, but I feel that my post needed something non game-related. There you go.

[Smashmouth]

Bleedin why does me posting a theory (or anyone else for that matter) get your attention ? You mention the theory and quote it, yet give no real reason why I look scummy other than that.

I have however been looking at Pac because he seems to have taken a few posts out of context and was put back in his place pretty quick so he had nothing to push forward with and that looks scummy to me simply because he did it twice.

Im beginning to see a slight connection between you and Pac. You mention him as well with nothing really to go on and you had a few little run ins just enough to distance yourselves for later in the game.

[HessStation]

Hold up. This is ridiculous. No lynch? Hell no. Hell no.

No lynch on Day 1 is almost always a bad play. Let's just give the mafia a free NK, shall we? Think they'll help us out and NK an active townie for us? Nah, how about they'll NK an inactive and let the town get no info from it. Then, as has been said, we start D2 in essentially the same position, but minus 1 townie.

Yeah, I get that you'll come back with "Why start D2 with 2 townies down then by lynching one today?"

Short Answer: We get more info that way.

Long Answer: Our greatest resource right now is the fact that we have a significant majority over the scum, and that majority is usually at it's highest peak on D1. We will likely lynch a townie, yes. But we'll get more reliable information from a lynch today then we will by packing our bags and fast forwarding to D2 (minus a NK that'll lend very little info for reasons stated above).

Oh, and SMC is right here. DPR stated his no lynch theory, and SMC came back with a rational response that neither attacked nor accepted his plan....he merely stated some numbers. DPR is the one that brought up play in last game -- to turn that around and say that SMC did it is 2 things: lame and a lie.

You guys have heard of "lynch all liars", right? My read on DPR right now is fuzzy, so I'm not voting for him. As I said, I'm sticking with my Crusher vote. But DPR just jumped to the top of my suspicion list for lying and trying to blame SMC for something he didn't do....but DPR did first.

TL;DR = No lynch is bad, let's lynch somebody today. DPR is lying, and is being a hypocrite. And I have gas.

Ok, I don't have gas, but I feel that my post needed something non game-related. There you go.

Good job sticking with your vote as scum like to do, to make sure eeeeveryone knows you're not scum, cause that would be too obvious.

[Smashmouth]

Dude, I already broke that down. Are you reading or skimming?

I also commented on this - I'll have to go back and find the posts.

Maybe I skimmed a bit due to all the back and forth crap between you and SMC . I dont need to to go back and find posts you should be able to answer the question without doing that or are you afraid you might contradict yourself ?

[HessStation]

Maybe I skimmed a bit due to all the back and forth crap between you and SMC . I dont need to to go back and find posts you should be able to answer the question without doing that or are you afraid you might contradict yourself ?

Ooooor he probably doesn't want to repeat himself. Ziiiiiiipity dooo daaaa zipity ah....

[Smashmouth]

Good job sticking with your vote as scum like to do, to make sure eeeeveryone knows you're not scum, cause that would be too obvious.

Hey hess I thought this was discussed earlier and you were wrong then too since Verbal has placed numerous votes in the game so far /

[DPR]

Hold up. This is ridiculous. No lynch? Hell no. Hell no.

No lynch on Day 1 is almost always a bad play. Let's just give the mafia a free NK, shall we? Think they'll help us out and NK an active townie for us? Nah, how about they'll NK an inactive and let the town get no info from it. Then, as has been said, we start D2 in essentially the same position, but minus 1 townie.

Yeah, I get that you'll come back with "Why start D2 with 2 townies down then by lynching one today?"

Short Answer: We get more info that way.

Long Answer: Our greatest resource right now is the fact that we have a significant majority over the scum, and that majority is usually at it's highest peak on D1. We will likely lynch a townie, yes. But we'll get more reliable information from a lynch today then we will by packing our bags and fast forwarding to D2 (minus a NK that'll lend very little info for reasons stated above).

Oh, and SMC is right here. DPR stated his no lynch theory, and SMC came back with a rational response that neither attacked nor accepted his plan....he merely stated some numbers. DPR is the one that brought up play in last game -- to turn that around and say that SMC did it is 2 things: lame and a lie.

You guys have heard of "lynch all liars", right? My read on DPR right now is fuzzy, so I'm not voting for him. As I said, I'm sticking with my Crusher vote. But DPR just jumped to the top of my suspicion list for lying and trying to blame SMC for something he didn't do....but DPR did first.

TL;DR = No lynch is bad, let's lynch somebody today. DPR is lying, and is being a hypocrite. And I have gas.

Ok, I don't have gas, but I feel that my post needed something non game-related. There you go.

et tu, Brute'?

Maybe I skimmed a bit due to all the back and forth crap between you and SMC . I dont need to to go back and find posts you should be able to answer the question without doing that or are you afraid you might contradict yourself ?

What I've already posted is on record, and thus the reliable version of what was said - I offer that so that no one can say I'm spinning.

And so, I must go back now and find old posts...which is exactly why the mafia like to spam.

[HessStation]

Hey hess I thought this was discussed earlier and you were wrong then too since Verbal has placed numerous votes in the game so far /

Oh yesyes. I shall place a bunch of dumb silly votes, state how scum will tend to stick with their vote and then claim how I will stick with my vote multiple times and noone will ever find that odd b/c I would have to be dumb to do that.

[Smashmouth]

Ooooor he probably doesn't want to repeat himself. Ziiiiiiipity dooo daaaa zipity ah....

Hess you truly are a mad man.

[DPR]

Except that the death scene will give us information, as Vic has repeatedly promised, so the scum hunting should be a bit more focused, no?

1. If we get a nightkill, we ought to get some info about it. Vic has said tha he wants to give us info.

2. A nightkill cofirms we have a mafia team.

3. No nightkill tells us we either have a cult, or a mafia/cult hybrid that trades recruitment for a nightkill, or the mafia skipped their nightkill to play with our heads.

There are benefits to the town under each of these scenarios.

Regardless of which, we start D2 with one more innocent than we would if we lynch somoeone.

Let's be honest here, if anyone was even close to having enough votes to be lynched, I would look bad for suggesting a No Lynch.

But we don't - we're not even close. So a No Lynch is a viable alternative.

The other alternative is the usual train and forced reveal, which turns out badly for the town most of the time, IMO.

This is the post that set SMC off - mostly because he has been going on and on about the last game.

So, last game, you couldn't shut up about how crazy it was to give up an innocent.

Now you figure 82% odds that we will lynch a townie are okay?

Er, don't look now, but your pinstripes are showing.

It's essentialy a defensive play because we got nothin' to go on.

We get information and to start D2 with one more townie. If you like your odds of hitting scum better, go for it.

This is true. We do give up information with a no lynch.

Maybe I skimmed a bit due to all the back and forth crap between you and SMC . I dont need to to go back and find posts you should be able to answer the question without doing that or are you afraid you might contradict yourself ?

Alright, I've posted a greatest hits here - and that ought ot point out what we can learn from a NK.

It also highlights the beginning of the dust-up with SMC.

And goes on to point out the general idea behind a No Lynch -

I didn't see the post (I'm hurrying) about this game vs. Other games, but what i said was:

In a situation where you suspect a game etup to be complex, and you don't have any hard evidence to follow, a no lynch vote can be helpful.

You do give up a chance at info (although the scenario where the mafia NK a roleless player and we get nothing is similar to us lynching a roleles player and getig nothing, except a mafia kill proves that there is a mafia...) - But in giving up that chance at information, you do most lilely save an innocent, which can buy you an extra day at endgame, when you do have alot of info.

It's not a slam dunk play - it's a defensive play, like I said.

Now, about Verbal...

[Smashmouth]

et tu, Brute'?

What I've already posted is on record, and thus the reliable version of what was said - I offer that so that no one can say I'm spinning.

And so, I must go back now and find old posts...which is exactly why the mafia like to spam.

Dont take it like that DPR im not mafia but I surely am scum hunting right now and I do it well . I always catch people posting crap and contradicting themselves then I have to go back and do the leg work. Im not saying your doing this Im just saying I dont want to do the leg work .

[Smashmouth]

DPR what your saying here is we might as well start every mafia game off with no lynch is that a good idea ? Is this game different than any other ?

This is the post that set SMC off - mostly because he has been going on and on about the last game.

Alright, I've posted a greatest hits here - and that ought ot point out what we can learn from a NK.

It also highlights the beginning of the dust-up with SMC.

And goes on to point out the general idea behind a No Lynch -

I didn't see the post (I'm hurrying) about this game vs. Other games, but what i said was:

In a situation where you suspect a game etup to be complex, and you don't have any hard evidence to follow, a no lynch vote can be helpful.

You do give up a chance at info (although the scenario where the mafia NK a roleless player and we get nothing is similar to us lynching a roleles player and getig nothing, except a mafia kill proves that there is a mafia...) - But in giving up that chance at information, you do most lilely save an innocent, which can buy you an extra day at endgame, when you do have alot of info.

It's not a slam dunk play - it's a defensive play, like I said.

Now, about Verbal...

DPR You are refering to this game in general in all those quotes . My question to you as I posted above is as stated in the first quote in this post and you did not answer it since I was the first person to actully ask you the question.

The question is: If you are calling for a "NO LYNCH" on the first day vote in the game is it fair to make a case under your assumption that everygame should start off like that ?

The answer is no, because it makes no sense in this game or any other IMHO until you have at least a little information to work on like a day/night phase. Doing it with no "real" information is just a bad play and gives the town no info, a guaranteed dead townie, and the chance the mafia can distort the game even more with the info they have from the game setup or opening statement from Vic. Im not willing to give them that edge.

[DPR]

Hold up. This is ridiculous. No lynch? Hell no. Hell no.

No lynch on Day 1 is almost always a bad play. 1.) Let's just give the mafia a free NK, shall we? Think they'll help us out and NK an active townie for us? Nah, how about they'll NK an inactive and let the town get no info from it. Then, as has been said, we start D2 in essentially the same position, but minus 1 townie.

Yeah, I get that you'll come back with "Why start D2 with 2 townies down then by lynching one today?"

Short Answer: We get more info that way.

Long Answer: 2. Our greatest resource right now is the fact that we have a significant majority over the scum, and that majority is usually at it's highest peak on D1. We will likely lynch a townie, yes. But we'll get more reliable information from a lynch today then we will by packing our bags and fast forwarding to D2 (minus a NK that'll lend very little info for reasons stated above).

3. Oh, and SMC is right here. DPR stated his no lynch theory, and SMC came back with a rational response that neither attacked nor accepted his plan....he merely stated some numbers. DPR is the one that brought up play in last game -- to turn that around and say that SMC did it is 2 things: lame and a lie.

You guys have heard of "lynch all liars", right? My read on DPR right now is fuzzy, so I'm not voting for him. As I said, I'm sticking with my Crusher vote. But DPR just jumped to the top of my suspicion list for lying and trying to blame SMC for something he didn't do....but DPR did first.

TL;DR = No lynch is bad, let's lynch somebody today. DPR is lying, and is being a hypocrite. And I have gas.

Ok, I don't have gas, but I feel that my post needed something non game-related. There you go.

Wow. Let's address these points as I have numbered them in blue:

1.) It's not a free NK. The town keeps a player. Imagine at endgame, when you have one more chance to lynch a mafia or you lose, and then an extra man pops on the board and now you have two chances. Not bad, eh?

But you already knew that.

2.) Your "townie at the highest numbers" advantage doesn't make sense. At all...as in, can you explain that again, cause it sounds a lot like WIFOM...

What gaurantees that the lynch information will be good? How many times have you seen "Bob, a roleless townie, has been lynched". That is some greta information. I'd hate to miss that...

We might hit a mafia - that's the advantage to voting for a player, and that's it. The other information "Bob, the town Cop, has been lynched." doesn't sound so good either. Running a few trains and risking outing the Cop and the Doc are the other option.

3.) SMC has been snarky about the last game since it ended, and everyone knows it. I just made the point that he bitched endlessly about protecting a townie, and now he doesn't seem all that worried about them. I thought it was odd...

Now, to turn around and spin all of this into saying I'm a liar...well, now, that is interesting.

You ought to know better. This ends the same way for you every time. heh

Verb

[DPR]

Smash, read thru my stuff about this game vs. other games, and if I'm still not clear, tell me and I'll figure out how to say it another way.

[SMC]

This is the post that set SMC off - mostly because he has been going on and on about the last game.

Exagerating again, DPR???

I had 30 or so posts before my statistical response to your no lynch proposal, and only 2 of them refer to last game, both in joking--the first to Lily and the other to you.