Lily Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I get it. When in Rome ... try not to get crucified by the Romans. More advice - try not to cruicify yourself. hehehhe huhhuhuh he said... rectify *gets up from Pac's lap* Holy **** you people posted a lot today. I'll be catching up and trying not to comment along the way and make myself look like an ass in the process by commenting on something that's already been done / figured out, as people have a tendency to do around here. Thanks for that! You don't know it of course, but...... I'm out for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets Voice of Reason Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 More advice - try not to cruicify yourself. *gets up from Pac's lap* Thanks for that! You don't know it of course, but...... I'm out for a bit. I'm afraid you now have rabies and some form of fungal disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightCash Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I have to give some credit to Lily.. shes seems to have truly absorbed the culture here... coming from a site where posting is historically low, to now leading this site in posts through day 1. And mmm.. rumcake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I have to give some credit to Lily.. shes seems to have truly absorbed the culture here... coming from a site where posting is historically low, to now leading this site in posts through day 1. Yeah, the girls have us surrounded. Lily's on top and Naeann's on the bottom. Glad Nae checked in, I was starting to worry about her. I get the feeling that Lily likes being on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 More advice - try not to cruicify yourself. *gets up from Pac's lap* Thanks for that! You don't know it of course, but...... I'm out for a bit. It's ok, it happens to the best of us sometimes. Its all about learning from the mistakes. Don't feel too bad though, at least you didn't have a serious of like 10 posts arguing with people after you had already been lynched and didn't even know it. We've seen that happen a few times around here, that's just plain old embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Oh, and let me just say, after catching up in the game I've never seen so many pages of posts with so little substance. I missed so much, yet really so little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 As far as game thoughts, here's where I'm at right now. I'm feeling really uneasy about those people who are really pushing the conversion idea. As I mentioned before, this entire concept is based on the choice of one single word and nothing else in the entire opening scene hints at it. It's possible "recruits" could just as easily refer to people that have been recruited (i.e., existing mafia teammates) as it could mean future recruits. Until we have any evidence to support the idea of a conversion, there's nothing good that could come of it. Having everyone believing in a conversion ability is much more helpful to the scum, regardless of whether or not it's true. Consider that by pushing this idea and people getting on board with it, you already have this out there to go back to even if no evidence comes up with it. You are automatically creating an initial aura of distrust amongst the players which can be exploited later. In a conversion game, innocent investigation results are essentially useless after the next night phase, uncountered power role claimers can't even be trusted and even players you have a strong reason to trust one day, you can't the next. Its the reason I don't like conversion games to begin with, because I think the significant advantage it gives to the scum team is way too difficult to balance out, and just the idea of that being out there plays right in their hands. Granted that doesn't mean everyone who thinks there may be conversions is scum, but right now I feel wary of those who really pushed the idea and committed to it early, as it's the perfect setup to start picking apart the town later. So that's where I'll be going with my vote, but since that was all prior to everything I just finished reading, I'll have to backtrack in the morning to double check on who I feel is the best bet of those people, so for the time being I'll unvote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lily Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 I have to give some credit to Lily.. shes seems to have truly absorbed the culture here... coming from a site where posting is historically low, to now leading this site in posts through day 1. And mmm.. rumcake Can I help it if you guys are irresistable? Yeah, the girls have us surrounded. Lily's on top and Naeann's on the bottom. Glad Nae checked in, I was starting to worry about her. I get the feeling that Lily likes being on top. So many things I could say, but.......... not this time, boys....... It's ok, it happens to the best of us sometimes. Its all about learning from the mistakes. Don't feel too bad though, at least you didn't have a serious of like 10 posts arguing with people after you had already been lynched and didn't even know it. We've seen that happen a few times around here, that's just plain old embarrassing. I was so afraid I was going to do that last game! lol As far as game thoughts, here's where I'm at right now. I'm feeling really uneasy about those people who are really pushing the conversion idea. As I mentioned before, this entire concept is based on the choice of one single word and nothing else in the entire opening scene hints at it. It's possible "recruits" could just as easily refer to people that have been recruited (i.e., existing mafia teammates) as it could mean future recruits. Until we have any evidence to support the idea of a conversion, there's nothing good that could come of it. Having everyone believing in a conversion ability is much more helpful to the scum, regardless of whether or not it's true. Consider that by pushing this idea and people getting on board with it, you already have this out there to go back to even if no evidence comes up with it. You are automatically creating an initial aura of distrust amongst the players which can be exploited later. In a conversion game, innocent investigation results are essentially useless after the next night phase, uncountered power role claimers can't even be trusted and even players you have a strong reason to trust one day, you can't the next. Its the reason I don't like conversion games to begin with, because I think the significant advantage it gives to the scum team is way too difficult to balance out, and just the idea of that being out there plays right in their hands. Granted that doesn't mean everyone who thinks there may be conversions is scum, but right now I feel wary of those who really pushed the idea and committed to it early, as it's the perfect setup to start picking apart the town later. So that's where I'll be going with my vote, but since that was all prior to everything I just finished reading, I'll have to backtrack in the morning to double check on who I feel is the best bet of those people, so for the time being I'll unvote. That makes a lot of sense. Games with recruiting are so common at DM that I find the idea of using it as a distraction tactic fascinating. Unless of course, you're trying to redirect us. I hear you have mad mafia skills. Still, either way, it will be interesting to note who pushed the idea. I'll be good now......... Okay, no I won't, but I'll try to keep the posting down. Just quit being so damn funny! See ya tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 Vote Count Lily (1)- SMC Bleedin (1)- Smashmouth Crusher (3)- Naeann, Verbal, Hess Slats (1)- JiF Brett (2)- CTM, AVM AVM (1)- BrettFavre Verbal (3)- JVoR, sharrow, lily JiF (1)- PAC With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightCash Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Vote Count Lily (1)- SMC Bleedin (1)- Smashmouth Crusher (3)- Naeann, Verbal, Hess Slats (1)- JiF Brett (3)- CTM, AVM AVM (1)- BrettFavre Verbal (3)- JVoR, sharrow, lily JiF (1)- PAC With 18 players, it takes 10 to lynch Vic you've listed me at 3 with only 2 names now multiple times... Is this purposeful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 You rolled your own wifom... I did somethng suspicious, but I'm telling you that i'm too smart to do something suspicious if i really had cause to look suspicious.. It's not an indictment, particularly because you are from DM and i know you guys have a predicliction towards the flamboyant. (My last game there, a roleless innocent fake claimed cop with a guilty verdict in order to gauge the reaction) it's funny though, doggin taught most of us this game, and he plays it very much by the books as town.. Just jumping in to point out that I once won a game for the town by false claiming a role on Day one that made scum (including poor Verbal and DPR) believe they had to vote the way I told them to. That was sweet. OK, back to your game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPR Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 As far as game thoughts, here's where I'm at right now. I'm feeling really uneasy about those people who are really pushing the conversion idea. As I mentioned before, this entire concept is based on the choice of one single word and nothing else in the entire opening scene hints at it. It's possible "recruits" could just as easily refer to people that have been recruited (i.e., existing mafia teammates) as it could mean future recruits. Until we have any evidence to support the idea of a conversion, there's nothing good that could come of it. Having everyone believing in a conversion ability is much more helpful to the scum, regardless of whether or not it's true. Consider that by pushing this idea and people getting on board with it, you already have this out there to go back to even if no evidence comes up with it. You are automatically creating an initial aura of distrust amongst the players which can be exploited later. In a conversion game, innocent investigation results are essentially useless after the next night phase, uncountered power role claimers can't even be trusted and even players you have a strong reason to trust one day, you can't the next. Its the reason I don't like conversion games to begin with, because I think the significant advantage it gives to the scum team is way too difficult to balance out, and just the idea of that being out there plays right in their hands. Granted that doesn't mean everyone who thinks there may be conversions is scum, but right now I feel wary of those who really pushed the idea and committed to it early, as it's the perfect setup to start picking apart the town later. So that's where I'll be going with my vote, but since that was all prior to everything I just finished reading, I'll have to backtrack in the morning to double check on who I feel is the best bet of those people, so for the time being I'll unvote. I think that the problem is the use of the word "recruit". To use the term in an OP for a game would be to give a strong hint to the players, and that's how some people have taken it. You could also casually use the terms "cop", "doc", and "scum", but people are also going to take those as hints. So the real question is, do you think that Vic is getting close to doing a little bastard modding? Or do you think that the cult would benefit from telling everyone that there is no cult? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPR Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Just jumping in to point out that I once won a game for the town by false claiming a role on Day one that made scum (including poor Verbal and DPR) believe they had to vote the way I told them to. That was sweet. OK, back to your game You were just dying to bring that up again, weren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 As far as game thoughts, here's where I'm at right now. I'm feeling really uneasy about those people who are really pushing the conversion idea. As I mentioned before, this entire concept is based on the choice of one single word and nothing else in the entire opening scene hints at it. It's possible "recruits" could just as easily refer to people that have been recruited (i.e., existing mafia teammates) as it could mean future recruits. Until we have any evidence to support the idea of a conversion, there's nothing good that could come of it. Having everyone believing in a conversion ability is much more helpful to the scum, regardless of whether or not it's true. Consider that by pushing this idea and people getting on board with it, you already have this out there to go back to even if no evidence comes up with it. You are automatically creating an initial aura of distrust amongst the players which can be exploited later. In a conversion game, innocent investigation results are essentially useless after the next night phase, uncountered power role claimers can't even be trusted and even players you have a strong reason to trust one day, you can't the next. Its the reason I don't like conversion games to begin with, because I think the significant advantage it gives to the scum team is way too difficult to balance out, and just the idea of that being out there plays right in their hands. Granted that doesn't mean everyone who thinks there may be conversions is scum, but right now I feel wary of those who really pushed the idea and committed to it early, as it's the perfect setup to start picking apart the town later. So that's where I'll be going with my vote, but since that was all prior to everything I just finished reading, I'll have to backtrack in the morning to double check on who I feel is the best bet of those people, so for the time being I'll unvote. FOS Beedlin for posting a real post. Great look at the game. Kinda what happen last game. Mafia sat back as the town tore themselves to shreads in a mass of confusion brought on by the Avatar twist. The entire game I had DPR pegged for Scum and for the first time had no clue who really was scum. I don;t know much about the Lost series, actually I know nothing(except a little from wiki) but it does seem some players are interested in pushing the conversion angle. After reading wiki I thinks it's plausible but I think it's always a good idea to look at players who "push" a particular concept, especially day one when everything is just conjecture. Townies have no reason to have any agenda day 1 except HUNTING scum. Scum on the other hand benefit greatly from creating confusion and in-fightint among the town. The other group of people I find interesting as well are the ones vehemently denying that their isn;t a chance for conversion. Especially based on the fact Vic wouldn't do that because he had a bad expereince in the Thing game with conversion. No one really knows what the Chilean Thundercat is thinking and I it's obvious he had alot of fun with putting this game together. We also know Doggin took a look at it for him, so it probably has a little extra added evil. I too want to go back and re-read because last night everyone was just having fun and breaking balls in the thread. Also I am always concerned when people use the word "lock" or "definate" on day one in reference with game mechanics, no townie should know anything more than any other townie. The only people who know more are Teh Scums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 As far as game thoughts, here's where I'm at right now. I'm feeling really uneasy about those people who are really pushing the conversion idea. As I mentioned before, this entire concept is based on the choice of one single word and nothing else in the entire opening scene hints at it. It's possible "recruits" could just as easily refer to people that have been recruited (i.e., existing mafia teammates) as it could mean future recruits. Until we have any evidence to support the idea of a conversion, there's nothing good that could come of it. Having everyone believing in a conversion ability is much more helpful to the scum, regardless of whether or not it's true. Consider that by pushing this idea and people getting on board with it, you already have this out there to go back to even if no evidence comes up with it. You are automatically creating an initial aura of distrust amongst the players which can be exploited later. In a conversion game, innocent investigation results are essentially useless after the next night phase, uncountered power role claimers can't even be trusted and even players you have a strong reason to trust one day, you can't the next. Its the reason I don't like conversion games to begin with, because I think the significant advantage it gives to the scum team is way too difficult to balance out, and just the idea of that being out there plays right in their hands. Granted that doesn't mean everyone who thinks there may be conversions is scum, but right now I feel wary of those who really pushed the idea and committed to it early, as it's the perfect setup to start picking apart the town later. So that's where I'll be going with my vote, but since that was all prior to everything I just finished reading, I'll have to backtrack in the morning to double check on who I feel is the best bet of those people, so for the time being I'll unvote. So the people who believe there's a conversion role are suspect but those who don't aren't? I guess that means you're innocent... great I'll cross you off my list. I really don't see what the big deal is... I made a point of asking Vic if the opening day scences will tell us if there's been a conversion and he used his big font to say it will. So... worst case scenario we react accordingly tomorrow. If there's no conversion we proceed under the assumption there's just a scum team, if there is... we have to explore these other ideas you're so vehemently opposed to discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 So the people who believe there's a conversion role are suspect but those who don't aren't? I guess that means you're innocent... great I'll cross you off my list. I really don't see what the big deal is... I made a point of asking Vic if the opening day scences will tell us if there's been a conversion and he used his big font to say it will. So... worst case scenario we react accordingly tomorrow. If there's no conversion we proceed under the assumption there's just a scum team, if there is... we have to explore these other ideas you're so vehemently opposed to discussing. My thing is not so much talking about it and discussion it as opposed to trying to steer the discussion in that direction rather than towards hunting for scum. It serves it's purpose and gets people talking, l but the people who make the "strong" absolute statements are the ones that concern me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPR Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Pac, why didn't you quote Bleedin instead of Crusher? Crush made his point - the town has no idea of the setup, and speculation is one thing, but leading and steering are another story. Bleedin was more along the lines of "there is no cult. Nothing to see here, please move along." But he did at least point out the danger of speculation to the town. Either way, your crit would have fit Bleedin better than Crush. What do you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPR Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Nevermind - I only saw Crush quoting you (10 posts per page. Will it never end?). All is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 My thing is not so much talking about it and discussion it as opposed to trying to steer the discussion in that direction rather than towards hunting for scum. It serves it's purpose and gets people talking, l but the people who make the "strong" absolute statements are the ones that concern me. The notion of focusing on scum hunting is great but on Day 1 it's not so realistic. I can't remember ever seeing scum nailed out of the gates here. So while I'm definitely looking for things out of the ordinary I don't think anyone is going to hang themselves today. In fact on day 1 I'm inclined to go against the majority and go after the vanilla players. Odds are much better of getting scum there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 You were just dying to bring that up again, weren't you? He's got that a bit wrong, though. I wasn't scum until later on in that game - I started town and then got recruited into the cult. You were mafia the whole time (I think). Nae's Princess Bride game on MJ if I remember correctly. But Kiv is right in that he was able to get scum to vote as his "PRs" stated. And he won it for the town based on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 So the people who believe there's a conversion role are suspect but those who don't aren't? I guess that means you're innocent... great I'll cross you off my list. I really don't see what the big deal is... I made a point of asking Vic if the opening day scences will tell us if there's been a conversion and he used his big font to say it will. So... worst case scenario we react accordingly tomorrow. If there's no conversion we proceed under the assumption there's just a scum team, if there is... we have to explore these other ideas you're so vehemently opposed to discussing. How is this in any way what I said? The hilarity of this is we are actually agreeing on one of your points, being that we should react accordingly once the information is presented to us. But people aren't currently waiting for that. Also, who knows when, if ever, we will get that information? From Vic's response to questions about it, he said all of the necessary information would be revealed in death scenes, but I'm not sure we'll be informed every time there is a successful conversion (such as in the Thing game), so the only way to know for sure is once we see the death scene of a non-MIB scum member. Who knows how long that wil be, and there's a lot of damage that could be done before then if we allow people to manipulate the game using the conversion angle. Just to be clear, I've never said there's definitely no conversion (I've acknowledge that it's a possibility) or that it shouldn't be discussed at all, what I did say is the people who are so definitive about it are concerning me and that it absolutely can be used as a weapon by scum, even if it's true. It changes the complexion of the whole game, everything from role reveals to investigation results come into immediate question with no truly definitive way of verifying them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 So the people who believe there's a conversion role are suspect but those who don't aren't? I guess that means you're innocent... great I'll cross you off my list. I really don't see what the big deal is... I made a point of asking Vic if the opening day scences will tell us if there's been a conversion and he used his big font to say it will. So... worst case scenario we react accordingly tomorrow. If there's no conversion we proceed under the assumption there's just a scum team, if there is... we have to explore these other ideas you're so vehemently opposed to discussing. A little defensive? The notion of focusing on scum hunting is great but on Day 1 it's not so realistic. I can't remember ever seeing scum nailed out of the gates here. So while I'm definitely looking for things out of the ordinary I don't think anyone is going to hang themselves today. In fact on day 1 I'm inclined to go against the majority and go after the vanilla players. Odds are much better of getting scum there. Ragu.. Irish Jet Doggin as SK and i think that's it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Can I help it if you guys are irresistable? So many things I could say, but.......... not this time, boys....... I was so afraid I was going to do that last game! lol That makes a lot of sense. Games with recruiting are so common at DM that I find the idea of using it as a distraction tactic fascinating. Unless of course, you're trying to redirect us. I hear you have mad mafia skills. Still, either way, it will be interesting to note who pushed the idea. I'll be good now......... Okay, no I won't, but I'll try to keep the posting down. Just quit being so damn funny! See ya tomorrow. You were told that by someone around here? No kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 As far as game thoughts, here's where I'm at right now. I'm feeling really uneasy about those people who are really pushing the conversion idea. As I mentioned before, this entire concept is based on the choice of one single word and nothing else in the entire opening scene hints at it. It's possible "recruits" could just as easily refer to people that have been recruited (i.e., existing mafia teammates) as it could mean future recruits. Until we have any evidence to support the idea of a conversion, there's nothing good that could come of it. Having everyone believing in a conversion ability is much more helpful to the scum, regardless of whether or not it's true. Consider that by pushing this idea and people getting on board with it, you already have this out there to go back to even if no evidence comes up with it. You are automatically creating an initial aura of distrust amongst the players which can be exploited later. In a conversion game, innocent investigation results are essentially useless after the next night phase, uncountered power role claimers can't even be trusted and even players you have a strong reason to trust one day, you can't the next. Its the reason I don't like conversion games to begin with, because I think the significant advantage it gives to the scum team is way too difficult to balance out, and just the idea of that being out there plays right in their hands. Granted that doesn't mean everyone who thinks there may be conversions is scum, but right now I feel wary of those who really pushed the idea and committed to it early, as it's the perfect setup to start picking apart the town later. So that's where I'll be going with my vote, but since that was all prior to everything I just finished reading, I'll have to backtrack in the morning to double check on who I feel is the best bet of those people, so for the time being I'll unvote. No one is saying this is a "conversion game". Vic clearly mentioned MIB killing people. There is a potential for conversion, i.e., recruitment. Since the killing is so clearly stated, it certainly reasonable to believe that the main avenu of victory of the scum is NK. Thus, if there is a conversion ability, it is restricted. Perhaps they only have 1 shot at it, like in one of Doggin's game IIRC. Accordingly, stop referring to this as a conversion game. There's no evidence based on what Vic wrote that this is a "conversion game." Thus, investigations are not nullified the next day or later on. Again, Vic mentioned killing. There is no way in hell scum could have unfettered NKing and conversion ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 A little defensive? more like mildly agitated. his last post clears it up for me a bit so I'll let it go. the point was it seemed like a lot of bluster when we should be getting intel at the start of day 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Ragu.. Irish Jet Doggin as SK and i think that's it.. There was also that crazy guy with the George Carlin avatar who got lynched day 1 as SK But you can't forget that in other games scum have gotten in lynching range day 1 and wiggled out. Crusher did that in the Thing game and Lefty (me) did that in the JN/JI game. So it's far from rare to get scum/sk day 1. Back to Bleedin's point, and Pac made the counter. But it seems counterintuitive to say it's scummy to claim there is a conversion possibility. If anything, under Bleedin's logic, to deny there was conversion possibility would be scummy. In that way the scum could hide behind the notion that all investigations are valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 No one is saying this is a "conversion game". Vic clearly mentioned MIB killing people. There is a potential for conversion, i.e., recruitment. Since the killing is so clearly stated, it certainly reasonable to believe that the main avenu of victory of the scum is NK. Thus, if there is a conversion ability, it is restricted. Perhaps they only have 1 shot at it, like in one of Doggin's game IIRC. Accordingly, stop referring to this as a conversion game. There's no evidence based on what Vic wrote that this is a "conversion game." Thus, investigations are not nullified the next day or later on. Again, Vic mentioned killing. There is no way in hell scum could have unfettered NKing and conversion ability. Ok, I'm lost (pun intended). You just responded to my post, but everything you said has been exactly my point all along. There are others around here pushing the idea this is a conversion game and for all of the reason's you stated, I'm not sold on that idea, and I think it's a dangerous idea to be pushing. Which is exactly why my whole point was I have a problem with those who are so definitely stating this is the fact, because if you work with that assumption then things like investigations come into question, which I'm saying we should not be doing, and is the danger of assuming and/or people pushing the conversion idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 There was also that crazy guy with the George Carlin avatar who got lynched day 1 as SK But you can't forget that in other games scum have gotten in lynching range day 1 and wiggled out. Crusher did that in the Thing game and Lefty (me) did that in the JN/JI game. So it's far from rare to get scum/sk day 1. For the record Ragu was 2 years ago, I didn't play the game where IJ got lynched, and Doggin screwed the pooch with his Day 1 Doc directing. So the point stands... very rare. and you're thinking of Gagoots... although I don't remember that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Ok, I'm lost (pun intended). You just responded to my post, but everything you said has been exactly my point all along. There are others around here pushing the idea this is a conversion game and for all of the reason's you stated, I'm not sold on that idea, and I think it's a dangerous idea to be pushing. Which is exactly why my whole point was I have a problem with those who are so definitely stating this is the fact, because if you work with that assumption then things like investigations come into question, which I'm saying we should not be doing, and is the danger of assuming and/or people pushing the conversion idea. I thought you were making the strawman argument. I didn't see people pushing that this was a conversion game per se, just that there was a conversion possibility. Like you, I don't think there's anyway this can be a conversion game based on what Vic wrote and the source material. Clearly, the Thing game was a conversion game based on the write up and the source. That's what the Thing does. Here, the MIB kills his enemies, he has recruits, but he kills as well. As to the recruit stuff in the writeup, I think it was necessary because the MIB is one guy. He has to be a leader of a team, thus the recruits. But with that there is the possibility of another recruit--2 tops. Logistically, I don't see how there could be more than 2 recruits (hypothetically starting with 2 scum team). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 There was also that crazy guy with the George Carlin avatar who got lynched day 1 as SK But you can't forget that in other games scum have gotten in lynching range day 1 and wiggled out. Crusher did that in the Thing game and Lefty (me) did that in the JN/JI game. So it's far from rare to get scum/sk day 1. Back to Bleedin's point, and Pac made the counter. But it seems counterintuitive to say it's scummy to claim there is a conversion possibility. If anything, under Bleedin's logic, to deny there was conversion possibility would be scummy. In that way the scum could hide behind the notion that all investigations are valid. Your last point is fair but my only counter to that is if there is a conversion ability, that information will come out eventually and we'll have it to work with then. So it's not like anyone can just go on the entire game pushing the idea of their being no conversions even if they do exist. I've stated numerous times that I'm not certain there are no conversions, I just don't like assuming that they exist out of the gate. Personally, I prefer to err on the side of caution and work without the assumption of conversions until we are given good reason to believe they exist, because of the reason's I've mentioned previously. Your last line is the perfect example, do you really think we're better off assuming that the investigations are invalid before we have any more reason than one word in the opening scene to think that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Random note on all of the posting, my goal is to contribute as much as possible today as starting tomorrow my participation is definitely going to take a nosedive for the next week. After that I'll be good to go again though, but just wanted to give a heads up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 For the record Ragu was 2 years ago, I didn't play the game where IJ got lynched, and Doggin screwed the pooch with his Day 1 Doc directing. So the point stands... very rare. and you're thinking of Gagoots... although I don't remember that game. Two years? Damn, we've been playing this game too long. And, yep, that's Gagoots. I do agree it's rare, but I'm cautious because we have seen scum wiggle out day 1. When that happens, scum try to use that as a shield later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPR Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 Absolute sweetness. I can now see 40 posts per page, and we are on page 13. Thank you JN gods, whomever you may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious89x Posted May 21, 2010 Author Share Posted May 21, 2010 How is this in any way what I said? The hilarity of this is we are actually agreeing on one of your points, being that we should react accordingly once the information is presented to us. But people aren't currently waiting for that. Also, who knows when, if ever, we will get that information? From Vic's response to questions about it, he said all of the necessary information would be revealed in death scenes, but I'm not sure we'll be informed every time there is a successful conversion (such as in the Thing game), so the only way to know for sure is once we see the death scene of a non-MIB scum member. Who knows how long that wil be, and there's a lot of damage that could be done before then if we allow people to manipulate the game using the conversion angle. Just to be clear, I've never said there's definitely no conversion (I've acknowledge that it's a possibility) or that it shouldn't be discussed at all, what I did say is the people who are so definitive about it are concerning me and that it absolutely can be used as a weapon by scum, even if it's true. It changes the complexion of the whole game, everything from role reveals to investigation results come into immediate question with no truly definitive way of verifying them. I will repeat it again. The death scenes will be clear. It's not my intention to give you as little information as possible. My feelings are death scenes should always help guide the town to develop theories. Not make things more clouded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted May 21, 2010 Share Posted May 21, 2010 No one is saying this is a "conversion game". Vic clearly mentioned MIB killing people. There is a potential for conversion, i.e., recruitment. Since the killing is so clearly stated, it certainly reasonable to believe that the main avenu of victory of the scum is NK. Thus, if there is a conversion ability, it is restricted. Perhaps they only have 1 shot at it, like in one of Doggin's game IIRC. Accordingly, stop referring to this as a conversion game. There's no evidence based on what Vic wrote that this is a "conversion game." Thus, investigations are not nullified the next day or later on. Again, Vic mentioned killing. There is no way in hell scum could have unfettered NKing and conversion ability. I like this post. It makes sense. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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