Michael Jordan never lost 3 games in an NBA Finals series

[Blackout]

just sayin'

[PFSIKH]

MJ played in a watered down league due to expansion.

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aren't there more teams now than back then?

[PFSIKH]

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[Thai Jet]

About two I think, but big difference going from 17 to 28 over 10 years and then 28 to 30 over the last 12+.

Save it Dave, he's no math wiz.

[The Troll]

Kobe Bryant never played with Scottie Pippen in his prime.

[Blackout]

Kobe Bryant never played with Scottie Pippen in his prime.

Shaq in his prime = top 10 player ever

Pippen? ARGUBLY top 50 now but most likely not.

[Blackout]

About two I think, but big difference going from 17 to 28 over 10 years and then 28 to 30 over the last 12+.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1985.html

um when MJ was a rookie there were 23 teams.

let's not make things up here

[villain_the_foe]

Shaq in his prime = top 10 player ever

Pippen? ARGUBLY top 50 now but most likely not.

You're a lie. Pippen is one of the best to ever do it at the forward position or in the game in general. There was a 4 year stretch that arguably the 2nd best player in the league WAS Scottie Pippen. Dude put in work and always gets over looked because of Jordan but if it wasnt for Scottie you can cut those rings Jordan has in half.

As for Kobe, he f'ing sucks and I hope they go back to LA and get stomped out. I hope he drops 50pts yet lose by 25.

[Blackout]

There was a 4 year stretch that arguably the 2nd best player in the league WAS Scottie Pippen.

.

LOL are you insinuating that Scottie Pippen was once better than HAKEEM, MALONE AND SIR CHARLES????

you're telling me the Bulls wouldn't trade Pippen for Ewing? Or the Admiral? or Shaq in his Orlando days?

you sir, are the lie.

[The Troll]

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[vinnytestaverde]

A.) Kobe has won a title without Shaq. A couple days from now, we may be able to say he's won two. Jordan won ZERO championships without Pippen.

and

B.) Shaq is over-rated, IMO. Was he great? Absolutely. But top ten of all-time? No way. Shaq dominated in a watered down NBA. Seriously, name me another top center whenever the Lakers were winning all those championships. He was fortunate to hit his prime right after Hakeem, the Admiral, and Ewing all retired.

a) The '09 Lakers were one of the worst teams to ever win an NBA title. Garnett isn't injured that year they beat the Lakers again in the Finals that season.

Tim Duncan is one of the greatest PF's of all-time, is a 7 footer and moved back and forth between Center and PF his entire career and Shaq beat him for a championship in 2001 and again in the playoffs in 2004. You want to blame Shaq for hitting his peak as a player after Olajuwon and Ewing got old fine I don't think that argument really holds water. Is it Jordan's fault he hit his prime after Bird and Magic got old?

Robinson was a very overrated player his entire career and isn't even in the same category as Shaq.

[Matt39]

Shaq- overrated? Wow...

The only guy that ever gave him fits was Hakeem. Ewing and Robinson arent in Shaq's league

[JustInFudge]

A lot of crazy talk going on in this thread.

Kobe is an all time great, but nobody will ever be Jordan. As much as Pippen helped Jordan, Jordan helped Pippen 5x as much. Pippen was never the 2nd best player in the NBA at that time...thats just silly talk.

The league was definitely not watered down. It was much more competitive, we just saw an all time great winner, refuse to lose so there wasnt more Champions, but there was twice as much parody in those days and more all time greats played during that time than currently and it was much more physical.

Shaq in his prime was one of the 5 most dominate players at his position and in the argument for top 5 ever. There has never been anything like it and may never be again. Didnt matter who his competition was because nobody could compete.

[Blackout]

A lot of crazy talk going on in this thread.

Kobe is an all time great, but nobody will ever be Jordan. As much as Pippen helped Jordan, Jordan helped Pippen 5x as much. Pippen was never the 2nd best player in the NBA at that time...thats just silly talk.9

yep. the fact that I found someone dumb enough to say Scottie Pippen was better than Shaq and Hakeem is hilarious.

fun day.

[kelticwizard]

I don't understand all this "watered down" talk. If there are more teams now than there were then, then there are players presently playing in the NBA who would not be in the league if they played back then. If anything, the present NBA could be called a "watered down" league.

[kelticwizard]

I'm not going to get into a Kobe vs Jordan debate, but there is one difference between the two.

Kobe just plays his game, nothing personal against the other team.

Jordan, despite his nice guy image, spent his career humiliating the other team's best player in the most spectacular way possible.

In college, he poked the ball away from the No. 1 choice in the draft in the draft, Patrick Ewing, to win the championship.

In the pro's, both Jordan and Clive Drexler were considered up-and-coming stars at guard. They met in one championship series, and Jordan just completely outplayed him. Drexler was never mentioned in the same breath with Jordan again.

In one tough playoff with Utah, it was Jordan vs. Karl Malone. If Utah wins and Malone looked good, there might actually be some debate about who was better. Instead, at the critical point in the playoff when Utah was about to come back, Jordan steals the ball from Malone and ends one of the toughest playoffs I ever saw.

I'm not saying Jordan is basically mean, but there is something about him that enables him to show up his rivals in the worst way when the stakes are greatest.

[ECURB]

JORDAN

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.

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Everyone Else

[rillo]

I'm not going to get into a Kobe vs Jordan debate, but there is one difference between the two.

Kobe just plays his game, nothing personal against the other team.

Jordan, despite his nice guy image, spent his career humiliating the other team's best player in the most spectacular way possible.

In college, he poked the ball away from the No. 1 choice in the draft in the draft, Patrick Ewing, to win the championship.

In the pro's, both Jordan and Clive Drexler were considered up-and-coming stars at guard. They met in one championship series, and Jordan just completely outplayed him. Drexler was never mentioned in the same breath with Jordan again.

In one tough playoff with Utah, it was Jordan vs. Karl Malone. If Utah wins and Malone looked good, there might actually be some debate about who was better. Instead, at the critical point in the playoff when Utah was about to come back, Jordan steals the ball from Malone and ends one of the toughest playoffs I ever saw.

I'm not saying Jordan is basically mean, but there is something about him that enables him to show up his rivals in the worst way when the stakes are greatest.

Jordan wanted to humiliate his competition no doubt about it. Also Jordan is/was a jerk on and off the court but nothing really 'stuck' to him other than the gambling problem.

[nyjunc]

MJ played in a watered down league due to expansion.

The NBA is as bad now as it has ever been. The Finals this year was mostly bad basketball, these teams wouldn't have won 2 games in a series against Jordan and the Bulls.

About two I think, but big difference going from 17 to 28 over 10 years and then 28 to 30 over the last 12+.

In the 1980-'81 season the NBA added a 23rd team

Jordan came into the league in '84-'85 when there were 23 teams. They didn;t expand again until '88-'89.

There's not doubt the 90s weren't as good as the 80s but the NBA is as bad today as I have ever seen it. The Champs of the last few years have been medicore teams that have beaten up a weak league. Maybe SA and the early 00s Lakers could have competed w/ the Bulls of the 90s but those are the only teams since he retired.

Kobe Bryant never played with Scottie Pippen in his prime.

Yeah he only played w/ the most dominating big man in basketball to win 3 of his titles. Jordan never missed the playoffs either.

A.) Kobe has won a title without Shaq. A couple days from now, we may be able to say he's won two. Jordan won ZERO championships without Pippen.

and

B.) Shaq is over-rated, IMO. Was he great? Absolutely. But top ten of all-time? No way. Shaq dominated in a watered down NBA. Seriously, name me another top center whenever the Lakers were winning all those championships. He was fortunate to hit his prime right after Hakeem, the Admiral, and Ewing all retired.

Jordan didn't have the opporunity to win w/o Pippen. early in his career when he had little talent around him(and still made the playoffs unlike Kobe) he had all time great teams to go through- who are the great teams that Kobe has had to beat these last 2 years?

Shaq is not overrated, Shaq is the only one of the 3 players to win a title w/o Phil jackson. Shaq is one of the all time greats.

and Shaq enetred the NBA when guys like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, etc... were in their prime.

[dbatesman]

I know Kobe deliberately and self-consciously brings it on himself, but he isn't and never will be Jordan, so the comparisons really need to stop. Besides, from a historical/legacy perspective this Finals was way more important to Pierce/Garnett/Allen.

[Jetsfan80]

Michael Jordan averaged over 33 points per game in the Finals as well. Tell me when Kobe's anywhere close to that.