Roger Goodell is ruining the NFL

[#27TheDominator]

Ok I understand what you are saying but when was the last time a jet player got a fine for an illegal hit? Eric Smith? Who cares. Our defense may be tough but they're not dirty like some other teams. This is going to impact teams with dirty players not good defenses.

I'm 100% with TParich.

1. Smith got fined and I don't think anybody felt that he had "intent" to use his helmet, but that the fact that it was a "sandwich" hit caused it. The league still fined him.

2. Our D isn't dirty? Based on what our coach says and how he acts, you can damn well expect that the Jets are the team most likely to be hurt by any change in how these rules are enforced. Dirty or not, we have that rep and it's not going to help.

[sh4dy15]

I'm 100% with TParich.

1. Smith got fined and I don't think anybody felt that he had "intent" to use his helmet, but that the fact that it was a "sandwich" hit caused it. The league still fined him.

2. Our D isn't dirty? Based on what our coach says and how he acts, you can damn well expect that the Jets are the team most likely to be hurt by any change in how these rules are enforced. Dirty or not, we have that rep and it's not going to help.

Thats your opinion. According to the NFL and the rules we're not dirty. We're a tough hard hitting defense but theres a difference between that and dirty (ex. Harrsion and Meriweather)

[#27TheDominator]

Thats your opinion. According to the NFL and the rules we're not dirty. We're a tough hard hitting defense but theres a difference between that and dirty (ex. Harrsion and Meriweather)

Right, and that's your opinion. The Jets have been getting flagged up the a$$ this year. These aren't Herm's Jets. They don't play nice and the refs aren't giving any free passes.

[sh4dy15]

Right, and that's your opinion. The Jets have been getting flagged up the a$$ this year. These aren't Herm's Jets. They don't play nice and the refs aren't giving any free passes.

lol Ok find me another time they were flagged for Helmet to Helmet (which is what this change in punishment is about) besides the Eric Smith one and the Jim Leonhard one. Thats twice and when reviewed neither would have been suspended. Of course they dont play nice but they dont play dirty either.

People need to stop turning nothing into such a big deal.

[tparich]

lol Ok find me another time they were flagged for Helmet to Helmet (which is what this change in punishment is about) besides the Eric Smith one and the Jim Leonhard one. Thats twice and when reviewed neither would have been suspended. Of course they dont play nice but they dont play dirty either.

People need to stop turning nothing into such a big deal.

It's not so much what we have a team has done so far but more of how of how this will effect the refs flag from here on out.

I'm sure the Refs are having their own meetings on the topic and IMO they probably don't like the fact that it's all over the media that the league fined people that they didn't even throw a flag on. It's basiclly the league saying that they blew the call.

IMO this is going to result in more flags being thrown on the borderline tackles that would not of been penalized before this week.

[HessStation]

Everyone keeps crying about it, I can't possibly see the logic behind not agreeing. A 20-year-old kid is paralyzed from the neck down after last week's games, and most don't seem to realize that any change is going to have to come from the top down. Bravo to Goodell I say.

LOL you love playing devils advocate. Anyway I'm going to take a wait and see approach. Let's see how the ref's enforce it first, but I got bad vibes.

[HessStation]

These plays will always be reviewed. If they don't see an INTENT to injure they wont be punished. Why is this such a big deal? Assholes like Harrison and Meriweather dont give a sh*t about a monetary penalty so now maybe they'll think twice before making an ILLEGAL hit.

My fear is in how the refs will interpret this. Are they internally going to be pushed to the call even more personal fouls to enforce their commisioners words, with even more sensitivity than there already is? My fear is we'll see a flag every time a WR is hit over the middle or a QB is touched. We're already heading in that direction. Also, you're asking people who play/work instinctivly to think when normally they're really not, they're more or less reacting, this in turn could cause more injuries imo. These guys make too much money in performance to start thinking or worrying "I can't go all out on this one" etc. It's a contradiction which could end up just getting more players hurt.

[#27TheDominator]

lol Ok find me another time they were flagged for Helmet to Helmet (which is what this change in punishment is about) besides the Eric Smith one and the Jim Leonhard one. Thats twice and when reviewed neither would have been suspended. Of course they dont play nice but they dont play dirty either.

People need to stop turning nothing into such a big deal.

LOL ia right. You are debating me about things I didn't say. I'm not even sure the ref called Leonhard for helmet to helmet. I think they called the defenseless player thing. At least that's what I heard when I heard that the NFL said it was a good call. NOBODY who saw that thinks he went in helmet first. That's what I'm complaining about, but you want to keep repeating helmet to helmet, knock yourself out. The Jets will probably suffer because they have a rep, aren't media/league darlings and hit. The refs are going to start flagging first and sorting it out later and that's bad for teams (Jets/Ravens/Steelers) that hit and good for p***y teams like the Pats and Colts. As Hess said, the refs will make the call and let the league sort the fines later. They will not like the idea of having fines on plays they didn't call, so when in doubt 15 yards.

[Larz]

I'm all for them seeing what they hit, but added protection against the freak or intentional hit, does not hurt.

I also did not mean that's the only way they test it, I said it's throughly tested and it is by several outside agencies that ultimately certify it for market and use.

I'm sure they test it moving against other moving objects, since hockey players move, plus it's design is already cutting down concussions on the ice.

Where brains are also moving at sprinter speeds in one direction and suddenly smashed by another moving object at sprinter speeds in the opposite direction.

Except in hockey, sometimes it's another helmet, or a shoulder, or an elbow, or a fist, or a stick, sometimes it's even followed by a wall, or the ice, or both, and sometimes you just get hit with this big bullet they call a puck.

I never said it was eliminating it, and unless hockey players freeze the fluid inside their skulls during a game, it's obviously helping.

Don't be so short sighted, concussions are not even the only concern here.

The helmet's padding design helps it absorb impact and multiple impacts better, that may help with neck and spinal cord injuries as well.

As for the the iconic looking helmets, when was the last time you watched a game?

There are several different helmet designs out there already, face masks too, they even have ones that look like a space pilot's helmet with a brick fence guard.

The classic no vents, round ear hole, 2 bar has been long gone, and again nothing about the outside look of the helmet has to change anyway.

kazoo helmets are not the answer

if anything it would lead to more injuries as the players will feel invincible

leather helmets would actually make more sense

, and no need to get hissy about it, we just disagree

[THE ILK]

kazoo helmets are not the answer

if anything it would lead to more injuries as the players will feel invincible

leather helmets would actually make more sense

, and no need to get hissy about it, we just disagree

Not getting hissy, but where do you come up with kazoo helmets?

The hockey helmets look no different on the outside, and they're not leading to more injuries, they are helping to prevent them.

I guess we should just ignore that and pretend leather helmets would do better.

[bitonti]

whats happening to the NFL is like what happened to smoking in 1965. The science has caught up to the reality of the situation. Like smoking, football is dangerous, and there's no fix (bigger helmets, low tar filters). the only fix is to stop.

I dont blame Goodell for this... he's in charge during a very transitional time, and it's the product that's toxic.

[T0mShane]

whats happening to the NFL is like what happened to smoking in 1965. The science has caught up to the reality of the situation. Like smoking, football is dangerous, and there's no fix (bigger helmets, low tar filters). the only fix is to stop.

I dont blame Goodell for this... he's in charge during a very transitional time, and it's the product that's toxic.

I agree with you, but I think you can blame Goodell for this much: those refs are going to be slinging flags like crazy every time someone gets lit up. We've seen it first-hand with the Leonhard play, if it's a violent hit, it's a penalty. Goodell's panic move will only amplify that moving forward. I think we're going to see 3-4 guys suspended this weekend alone.

[slats]

I agree with you, but I think you can blame Goodell for this much: those refs are going to be slinging flags like crazy every time someone gets lit up. We've seen it first-hand with the Leonhard play, if it's a violent hit, it's a penalty. Goodell's panic move will only amplify that moving forward. I think we're going to see 3-4 guys suspended this weekend alone.

People keep bringing that one up, but Leonhard wasn't fined. The officials still have to do their job. If anything, that play shows that the refs were already too flag happy.

All in all, this might be a good week to be off. Could be a lot of flags this Sunday. If the refs go too nuts with it, it should ramp back down just as quickly. There's been a lot or preemptive complaints from the players already. If the flags, fines, and suspensions fly this weekend, it's gonna hit a fever pitch next week.

Leonhard not being fined was a good sign for the Jets, IMHO. I think the league will be looking hard at Meriweather and Harrison - two guys they would've happily suspended this week. Titans have a dirty play rap, too.

I'm not terribly concerned about this ruling. I tend to take the cynical point of view you took earlier. The league really just wants to look like it's doing something, but they don't want to slow their sport down any more with a lot of extra penalties, and they know big hits sell.

[T0mShane]

People keep bringing that one up, but Leonhard wasn't fined. The officials still have to do their job. If anything, that play shows that the refs were already too flag happy.

All in all, this might be a good week to be off. Could be a lot of flags this Sunday. If the refs go too nuts with it, it should ramp back down just as quickly. There's been a lot or preemptive complaints from the players already. If the flags, fines, and suspensions fly this weekend, it's gonna hit a fever pitch next week.

Leonhard not being fined was a good sign for the Jets, IMHO. I think the league will be looking hard at Meriweather and Harrison - two guys they would've happily suspended this week. Titans have a dirty play rap, too.

I'm not terribly concerned about this ruling. I tend to take the cynical point of view you took earlier. The league really just wants to look like it's doing something, but they don't want to slow their sport down any more with a lot of extra penalties, and they know big hits sell.

I agree with almost everything you said, except I'm (clearly) a little worked up over this because it gives the refs another hammer to use that, really, could turn a game around based on awhat is essentially a judgement call. I think they have been too flag-happy already and this can only make that worse. How many times have we seen a receiver make a catch, turn, duck his head while bracing for the tackle and the tackler--who is already physically committed to the hit--gets a flag because the receiver essentially puts his helmet in the path of the collision? This emphasis all but guarantees that some big upcoming games will be won or lost because of iffy roughness calls and/or suspended players. In sum, I just hate handing even more power to the refs to potentially decide ballgames. Scares the crap outta me.

[bitonti]

I agree with you, but I think you can blame Goodell for this much: those refs are going to be slinging flags like crazy every time someone gets lit up. We've seen it first-hand with the Leonhard play, if it's a violent hit, it's a penalty. Goodell's panic move will only amplify that moving forward. I think we're going to see 3-4 guys suspended this weekend alone.

keep in mind the league had seen butchery in the 1pm games... denver was a 4pm game, time for some make up calls.

[Sperm Edwards]

I'm 100% with TParich.

1. Smith got fined and I don't think anybody felt that he had "intent" to use his helmet, but that the fact that it was a "sandwich" hit caused it. The league still fined him.

2. Our D isn't dirty? Based on what our coach says and how he acts, you can damn well expect that the Jets are the team most likely to be hurt by any change in how these rules are enforced. Dirty or not, we have that rep and it's not going to help.

"You take out one of our guys, we'll take out two of yours."

[T0mShane]

I just did the math and, all told, I've watched about 1000 football games in my lifetime. In all of that watching, I've seen maybe 10-15 tackles that I thought were just flat-out dirty to the point that the player should have been tossed. Just saying. When was the last hit you saw in a Jets game that you thought was just undeniably excessive?

[JetsFanInDenver]

It's a story because the NFL has let it become a story!

Its not like this was the first week there were violent hits in a football game.

Goddell is not as good as his Tagliabue in preventing stories that hurt the league from spreading. Tagliabue would have buried it right from the start!

Heck Tagliabue had ESPN stop a great series about football ( i forget the name ) after one season as it hurt football's image.

[Jetsfan80]

Heck Tagliabue had ESPN stop a great series about football ( i forget the name ) after one season as it hurt football's image.

[JetsFanInDenver]

It was a good one season series!!

[Jetsfan80]

It was a good one season series!!

Hell yeah it was. I'm pretty sure I watched every episode twice.

[Bugg]

keep in mind the league had seen butchery in the 1pm games... denver was a 4pm game, time for some make up calls.

Agree. Last week was probably an anomaly. Goodell is a silver spoon brat who despite all the "up from my bootstraps" nonsense advanced in life mostly because his dad was Nelson Rockefeller's good buddy. So much so that Goodell Sr. was briefly a US Senator.

This is all window dressing. The media will move on to some other hobbyhorse.

What is fair is that leading with your helmet is a bad idea and poor technique. Pop Warner and high school players are taught to put their head to either sidew when tackling, but the temptation to use your head is unavoidable. A redesigned helmet might help, but who knows? Bigger problem is defensive players have been conditioned to put big hits on players rather than to simply tackle them. Those big hits are what gets them on TV, not leading the NFL in tackles. I haven't followed it lately, but invariably the guys who lead the NFL in tackles at least until recenlty were not usually guys who make the PRo Bowl. Don't know if that's because such players are run at because they stink, or simply tackling with proficiency is not rewarded as much as clobbering ballcarriers.

[Bugg]

I just did the math and, all told, I've watched about 1000 football games in my lifetime. In all of that watching, I've seen maybe 10-15 tackles that I thought were just flat-out dirty to the point that the player should have been tossed. Just saying. When was the last hit you saw in a Jets game that you thought was just undeniably excessive?

The two that come to mind are Smith's hits on Bolden and Welker. Both drew 15 yarers,a nd the Bolden one a suspension.

And as much as I hate to admit this, I applauded the Welker hit, and even said to the people I was with that 15 yards were worth knocking pain-in-the-a$$ Welker clueless for the rest of the game. Suspect a good chunk of the stadium had the same exact thought.

[Jbro22]

The Smith Boldin hit is a perfect example why these rules are a joke.

Smith had committed to the hit before Boldin changed directions from Rhodes'(i think) hit. Was Smith supposed to throw the airbrakes on?

[Matt39]

LONDON -- NFL commissioner Roger Goodell wants a bigger presence for American football in Europe.Ahead of the NFL's fourth regular-season game at Wembley Stadium, Goodell says the success of the previous games has buoyed his hopes of one day having a full-time franchise in England.Goodell says the league plans to start playing more games in Europe in the coming years, but that no timeline for an expansion has been set."I think the next step will be multiple games. And if that's successful then I think the idea of a franchise here is realistic," Goodell said.The San Francisco 49ers play the Denver Broncos at Wembley on Sunday.

[Greenranger]

I think they were called the London Monarchs and no one cared so the team folded. So we should try with American football in London again.

[slats]

I think they were called the London Monarchs and no one cared so the team folded. So we should try with American football in London again.

They should put a team in Mexico. Visajet's wife is a little pissed that all the Mexicans are rooting for the Jets.

[Greenranger]

They should put a team in Mexico. Visajet's wife is a little pissed that all the Mexicans are rooting for the Jets.

Them and their damn satellites

[T0mShane]

I can't wait to not wake up to watch games played by a London franchise playing in front of 20,000 bored and confused limeys.

[SMC]

Between the idiotic idea of an 18 game season and Goodell's pining for the much more idiotic idea of a team in England, where there is no week-to-week interest in the NFL, it's right to say that Goodell is at least attempting to ruin the NFL.

That said, I see no problem with increased discipline on hits to the head. People are blowing this out of proportion. But this issue further demonstrates what a fraud Goodell is. You can't claim you care about players' saftety and then also:

1. Want an 18 game season which will only increase the chance of injury, and

2. Say the NFL will cease medicial insurance coverage in March for the players if there is a lockout.

[SMC]

I can't wait to not wake up to watch games played by a London franchise playing in front of 20,000 bored and confused limeys.

LOL

And the London team could never be on SNF or MNF. What, you're going to have a game in London starting at 2 AM in the morning or have them play on the road and not have any of their "home fans" watch the game because it's on so late?

Goodell is such an idiot.

[THE ILK]

I think he's just trying to out do Gary Bettman.

WHY!?!?

[Jbro22]

He's not stupid, he's simply created a buzz for this weekend game there. This will obviously never happen.

[Larz]

very interesting indeed

No helmet can eliminate concussions

As Philadelphia Eagles receiver DeSean Jackson prepared to return last weekend from his second concussion in less than a year, he was given a special, new helmet. While he hoped to be better protected, the helmet's maker certainly wouldn't -- and couldn't -- guarantee Jackson will be completely safe from brain injuries.

The truth is, no helmet can provide that sort of absolute protection in the NFL, where there's an average of 1½ to two concussions in each game.

In a series of interviews with The Associated Press, representatives of the NFL, its players' union and the four equipment companies that make every helmet worn in the league all agreed there's no football helmet -- in production or on drawing boards -- that can eliminate concussions. And there might never be one.

The NFL acknowledges that the lack of a perfect helmet contributed to its decision in recent weeks to use hefty fines and the threat of suspensions to cut down on dangerous hits. It's also why the league's head, neck and spine medical committee is holding a two-day meeting next month to look into new ways to test and design helmets.

"A concussion-proof helmet? So far, there's nothing to that effect," said Ray Anderson, the NFL's executive vice president of football operations. "I don't know if [manufacturers] could ever convince us or assure us that a helmet that would absolutely prevent concussions is doable. I haven't heard such a thing."

Right now, the helmet makers know they can't make such claims.

"I don't think there'll ever be anything that's a concussion-proof football helmet. I've heard that term thrown around, but in the helmet world, with today's technology, that's not achievable," said Thad Ide, vice president of research and development at Riddell.

"It's important to understand that there's a limit to how much helmets can do," Ide continued. "And player behavior, player education, rules changes -- all of those things can have as much, or more, of a benefit in reducing the risk of concussion."

Helmets used in the NFL -- and NCAA or high school football, for that matter -- are supposed to pass a test developed by the National Operating Committee on Standards for Athletic Equipment (NOCSAE), a nonprofit corporation. The group's website notes that it establishes "voluntary test standards," that "manufacturers test their own helmets" and that "NOCSAE does not possess a surveillance force to ensure compliance with the standards."

The testing method established in the 1970s remains essentially the same today. The goal then was to prevent sudden death, skull fractures and brain bleeding in football -- not stop concussions as they are defined now -- and there's universal agreement that goal has been achieved. But NOCSAE says it would like to find a way to update the standard and testing to better account for concussions, once more is known about the forces that cause them.

"We can't make a change to our standard until, No. 1, we know it's going to be beneficial, and No. 2, that the change that we would incorporate wouldn't make the rest of the standard less protective or that the change wouldn't increase the risk of injury in another area," executive director Mike Oliver said. "Science doesn't know the answer."

Concussions occur when the brain moves inside the skull from an impact or a whiplash effect. Some compare it to the movement of a yolk within a shell if an egg were tossed out of a window -- yes, wrapping the egg in bubble-wrap might keep the shell from cracking, but it wouldn't stop the yolk from jostling.

“ It's very clear that wearing a helmet, in and of itself, is not protecting our guys from concussions and other trauma, so to the extent that we can do more by aggressively enforcing our rules and getting illegal techniques and hits to the head out of the game, we have an obligation to do that.

” -- Ray Anderson, the NFL's executive vice president of football operations.

"I don't think this is a different set of problems than car manufacturers face when developing air bags or car seats for children," Schutt Sports president and CEO Robert Erb said.

"I can't have the helmet weigh too much, because then I'm putting stress loads on the neck and I'm creating a whole set of different problems. I can't put in too much padding, because then I'm creating a heat-related issue. I can't make it too thin. I can't make it too thick," said Erb, whose company made Jackson's old and new helmets.

Mark Lovell, founding director of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center Sports Medicine Concussion Program, said a concussion-proof helmet is not "a realistic goal, because you can't put a helmet on the brain."

"The helmet sits on the skull, and the brain moves inside the skull, and that's actually what causes the concussion," said Lovell, who has served as a consultant to the NFL and other major sports leagues.

Factors that play into whether concussions happen include whether a player took previous hits to the head that day; how hydrated he is; where on the helmet he gets hit; whether the player saw the hit coming and was able to tense neck muscles so his head spins less violently.

And the list goes on.

"I don't personally think, in my own mind, the helmet is ever going to be the solution to concussions. But I think they can be made better in the future, just like the current ones are made better than they were in the past," said Dr. Robert Cantu, a clinical professor of neurosurgery at the Boston University School of Medicine, senior adviser to the NFL's concussion committee and NOCSAE vice president.

The NFL's Anderson said it's "exactly right" to make a connection between the current state of helmet technology and the efforts by the league to increase enforcement of rules governing illegal hits to the head, including fines of up to $75,000.

"It's very clear that wearing a helmet, in and of itself, is not protecting our guys from concussions and other trauma," said Anderson, who makes initial decisions on punishment for NFL safety-rule violations, "so to the extent that we can do more by aggressively enforcing our rules and getting illegal techniques and hits to the head out of the game, we have an obligation to do that."

The NFL and NFLPA concussion committees, helmet makers, the Department of Defense and leading scientists will participate in discussions Dec. 8-9 to: examine whether there are new materials that could improve helmets; determine if sensors should be used in helmets, mouthguards or earpieces worn by NFL players to measure impacts of various kinds of hits to the head; review the NFL's return-to-play guidelines established in December 2009, including considering whether sideline tests used to determine if a player has a concussion should be standardized so each team uses the same, mandated neurological exam.

"We're turning over every stone you could imagine," said Richard Ellenbogen, chairman of the University of Washington medical school's department of neurological surgery and co-chair of the NFL's head, neck and spine medical committee.

The NFL says it has invested $10 million on the issue since 2006, including $6 million on concussion- and helmet-related research and education.

"We certainly won't get a helmet that reduces concussions," said Thom Mayer, medical director for the players' union, "unless we try."

The helmet makers say they are trying.

Boston University's Cantu quickly rattled off advances such as Riddell's increased width, Schutt's new cushioning materials, and what he called Xenith's "rather dramatic" change from traditional foams to air-cell padding inside helmets.

No matter what advancements have come about, some NFL players sound skeptical about just how much protection helmets can provide.

"They're making tons of different styles of helmets, and I wear the old, traditional style. I kind of feel, like, if you're going to get knocked out, you're going to get knocked out," Indianapolis Colts cornerback Jerraud Powers said. "I don't really think the helmet matters when it comes to you having a concussion or not."

Said Pittsburgh Steelers safety Troy Polamalu: "I've heard players try out the new helmets, get concussions and say, 'I'm going back to the old one."

Each player is allowed to choose which brand he wears. The NFL estimates that 75 percent of helmets used this season are made by Riddell, which has had a licensing/sponsorship agreement with the league since 1990; 23 percent are made by Schutt, 1 to 2 percent by Xenith, and a handful by Adams USA. Rawlings, which stopped making football helmets more than two decades ago, is returning to the business in 2011 and has partnered with the Cleveland Clinic for concussion research.

According to Schutt, Eagles Pro Bowler Jackson had been wearing one of its helmet models that went out of production about two years ago. Then came Oct. 17, a Sunday filled with some particularly vicious hits across the NFL, including the shot Jackson took from Atlanta Falcons cornerback Dunta Robinson that left both men on the ground, motionless. Jackson and Robinson both ended up with concussions; each missed his team's next game; Robinson appealed the $50,000 fine levied by the league for the hit.

D.J. MacLean, Schutt's director of sports marketing, traveled to Philadelphia last week to check on Jackson and his new helmet -- outfitted, unlike his old Schutt, with a material the company says does a much better job of withstanding impacts.

"A lot more cushioning. It felt good," Jackson said Friday after practice. "I'll definitely use it again."

Still, MacLean will be the first to tell you, that material can't ensure those impacts don't cause concussions.

"For somebody to say that there is such a thing as a concussion-proof helmet is incorrect. It's a misinterpretation. Football is a collision sport. When it's played well, it's a violent collision sport. Concussions will happen," MacLean said. "The only way to not get one is to sit in the stands."

[THE ILK]

Stupid idiots should look into this new technology: http://themessierproject.com/the-technology.html

It's not going to eliminate them, but could very well help prevent them, like it is in hockey.