SouthernJet Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 During Simms Giants heydays , when Tuna and GMen had killer D, was Simms more a game manager with great D or a bonafide 'win game by himself consistently QB? (I kno wwe had great SB, but I mean 'normally' on week to week basis) I know Tuna in those years saying w/our D we just shrink the field as game goes on and by end of 1st Qtr are handing ball to Offense near midfield. I remember Simms Game managing w/solid run game and Giants were basically w/2 1st downs always in FG range. They use dot win 17-13, 14-7, 20-13 etc.. Almost always close regular season games, but their games never seemed close if you watched as D usually dominated. Can Fitz do this for a Top5 Jets D this year? Any chance? I think our D will shrink field, give Off good field position and actually maybe score a few D TDs or get a turnover and hand ball to Jets near gola-line. JETS................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I hate the Giants but I watched those teams and admired them. they won w/ D obviously but Simms could do more than just manage the game. Fitz is nowhere near close to Simms, he's more like a Scott Brunner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 I hate the Giants but I watched those teams and admired them. they won w/ D obviously but Simms could do more than just manage the game. Fitz is nowhere near close to Simms, he's more like a Scott Brunner. Agreed. Simms had a rough start to his career but was a solid QB from 84 to 91 or so. Let's keep in mind he had Bavaro, McConkey and a solid running game with Joe Morris and then OJ Anderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Agreed. Simms had a rough start to his career but was a solid QB from 84 to 91 or so. Let's keep in mind he had Bavaro, McConkey and a solid running game with Joe Morris and then OJ Anderson. Bavaro was terrific. Joe Morris had a great year in 1986. But other than that, I wouldn't say Simms had great weapons at all. Simms was an underrated QB. I wish the Jets had a guy like that. We'd be a legit superbowl contender w/ Phil Simms in his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrien2Toon Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Thinking Dilfer would be a better comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I hate the Giants but I watched those teams and admired them. they won w/ D obviously but Simms could do more than just manage the game. Fitz is nowhere near close to Simms, he's more like a Scott Brunner. While Simms had a great Bowl in 86 during the season he was 21 tds and 22 picks 55% completion rate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 While Simms had a great Bowl in 86 during the season he was 21 tds and 22 picks 55% completion rate.. Interesting to be reminded about that ... Although he certainly was middle of the pack during the regular season he certainly was able to turn it on when the moment got big. 1986 post season stats - totally kicked some *$$ in the playoffs/Super Bowl ! Victories of 49 - 3 17 - 0 39 - 20 Show he turned it up in the post-season Personal stats in 1986 post-season of 38-58 attempts, 494 yards, 8 TD's 0 int's , 131.8 QB ranking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Personal stats in 1986 post-season of 38-58 attempts, 494 yards, 8 TD's 0 int's , 131.8 QB ranking 58 attemps in 3 games? That's like a game and a half worth these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I believe without Sheldon this DLine looks very soft, and the Jets will be run on all year. I don't think the D will be Elite this year. It won't be carrying any one. Cro will will be the Jets Elvis "The toast" Patterson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 While Simms had a great Bowl in 86 during the season he was 21 tds and 22 picks 55% completion rate.. yes, sort of where I was going Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Bavaro was terrific. Joe Morris had a great year in 1986. But other than that, I wouldn't say Simms had great weapons at all. Simms was an underrated QB. I wish the Jets had a guy like that. We'd be a legit superbowl contender w/ Phil Simms in his prime. I agree with that. BUT...his 1st 3 years in the league he was shaky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Simms played in a totally different era and my family except for me were really Giants fans. I think Simms should be in the HOF he was a very very good QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Simms played in a totally different era and my family except for me were really Giants fans. I think Simms should be in the HOF he was a very very good QB CB it's time for your annual check up from the neck up.. Marino,Montana,Fouts etc all played in that era that you like to spout.. Plus to prove my point the Giants also won a bowl with Jeff Hostetler should he be in the HOF too?? The Tuna replaced Simms in his 4th year with Scott Brunner and Simms didn't start a full 16 game season till he was 29.. Those Giant teams were run by their defense just like the 1985 Bears and 2000 Ravens.. If that sounds familiar check how we got to the AFCCG's it wasn't just Sanchez.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Agreed ... Simms did deliver when in mattered ... I believe a certain amount of credit for that should go to the tough love coach who busted his b*lls day in day out ... he .also gets a nice chunk of credit himself as well of course ! HOF however ????? ... Dude ...go pop some more pacifist pills !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Simms took forever to develop/stay healthy and then had two great seasons starting around his age 29 season followed by a couple of very good ones. Besides that he was your basic above average QB. Better than almost anyone the Jets have had mind you... but not close to being a HOF QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 CB it's time for your annual check up from the neck up.. Marino,Montana,Fouts etc all played in that era that you like to spout.. Plus to prove my point the Giants also won a bowl with Jeff Hostetler should he be in the HOF too?? The Tuna replaced Simms in his 4th year with Scott Brunner and Simms didn't start a full 16 game season till he was 29.. Those Giant teams were run by their defense just like the 1985 Bears and 2000 Ravens.. If that sounds familiar check how we got to the AFCCG's it wasn't just Sanchez.. I just disagree my friend.. You just have to think it through the fact that Simms was able to play 164 games in the NFC East in that very tough era and put up 6 seasons of 3000+ yards in a run-run offense that speaks volumes about how good Simms was. Think on it Quarterbacks in that division at that time didn't just get hurt, they got hurt for life (just see Theismann, White, Lomax for example) Yes Simms like Sanchez also played for a defensive minded coach that was committed to the run and never got him a really good WR but unlike Sanchez he didn't fold often like a cheap suit! I honestly think that if you put Simms on an AFC East team and gave him someone like Irving Fryar or Andre Reed as his top receiver he puts up better stats than any QB in the AFC except for Elway and Marino. Also Phil joined a team with a culture of losing. Back in ’79 the team had gone 15 years in a row without ever reaching the playoffs. He was a leader and turned the ship around. Phil suffered so many injuries because he was behind an awful oline early in his career, just see how Sanchez reacted with Hunter helping him. I am not sure but I think Phil even took the most sacks of a QB in a single year which wasn't broken until recently. Even with all that against him, Sports Illustrated in 2007 called Phil the most under-rated QB of all time. Just letting you know I am a homer but I will give the devil his do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 He had his best shining brief moments in the clutch when it mattered most ... And deserves full credit for that But otherwise (and understanding completely different styles , but - Simm's career would resemble Ken O'Brien's a lot closer than it would resemble Dan Marino's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Simms tended to have his best moments week by week in each game when it mattered most. His coach emphasized ball control and defense, so his numbers weren't flashy, but it seems when the big play needed to be made Simms made it more often that not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 During Simms Giants heydays , when Tuna and GMen had killer D, was Simms more a game manager with great D or a bonafide 'win game by himself consistently QB? (I kno wwe had great SB, but I mean 'normally' on week to week basis) I know Tuna in those years saying w/our D we just shrink the field as game goes on and by end of 1st Qtr are handing ball to Offense near midfield. I remember Simms Game managing w/solid run game and Giants were basically w/2 1st downs always in FG range. They use dot win 17-13, 14-7, 20-13 etc.. Almost always close regular season games, but their games never seemed close if you watched as D usually dominated. Can Fitz do this for a Top5 Jets D this year? Any chance? I think our D will shrink field, give Off good field position and actually maybe score a few D TDs or get a turnover and hand ball to Jets near gola-line. JETS................... Simms was much more than a game manager. I remember a huge play, playoffs, 3rd and like 18, game on the line he threw a dart for the first Dow, finished the drive and won the game. Besides Simms and a great D the Giants also had a great running game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Simms played in a totally different era and my family except for me were really Giants fans. I think Simms should be in the HOF he was a very very good QB Three injury plagued years without any results. A benching in year 4, boarder line stats and 1 SB to me means he falls short. He was very good but not great and needed the Hostetler SB to make it IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Three injury plagued years without any results. A benching in year 4, boarder line stats and 1 SB to me means he falls short. He was very good but not great and needed the Hostetler SB to make it IMO In truth you are probably right. I just stand up for the guy because you was one of those players who can honestly say if he was on a different team his stats would be better. Is Eli really better than Simms? Not to me. And my good Jet friend Savage69 above who is quick to put me in my place when it is well deserved knows I was Sanchez apologist but I am not that crazy to compare Sanchez to Simms. That is why when people say "look at the stats", it misses the point, because Sanchez at times may have had better stats than Simms, but to compare Simms to Sanchez is a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Simms was much more than a game manager. I remember a huge play, playoffs, 3rd and like 18, game on the line he threw a dart for the first Dow, finished the drive and won the game. Besides Simms and a great D the Giants also had a great running game I remember the play. And it was fourth and 18 with the game on the line. Forget the receiver's name, but he was a castoff from another team and didn't last long. Simms did not have great WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 In truth you are probably right. I just stand up for the guy because you was one of those players who can honestly say if he was on a different team his stats would be better. Is Eli really better than Simms? Not to me. And my good Jet friend Savage69 above who is quick to put me in my place when it is well deserved knows I was Sanchez apologist but I am not that crazy to compare Sanchez to Simms. That is why when people say "look at the stats", it misses the point, because Sanchez at times may have had better stats than Simms, but to compare Simms to Sanchez is a disgrace. I agree, think Simms was a lot better than Eli. Eli will benefit from the rule changes and put up better numbers. Simms had a better arm, threw a better ball and didn't have a lot of weapons. Sanchez can't even be mentioned in the same sentence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I remember the play. And it was fourth and 18 with the game on the line. Forget the receiver's name, but he was a castoff from another team and didn't last long. Simms did not have great WRs. Can't remember was it against Minny or LA Rams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 I just disagree my friend.. You just have to think it through the fact that Simms was able to play 164 games in the NFC East in that very tough era and put up 6 seasons of 3000+ yards in a run-run offense that speaks volumes about how good Simms was. Think on it Quarterbacks in that division at that time didn't just get hurt, they got hurt for life (just see Theismann, White, Lomax for example) Yes Simms like Sanchez also played for a defensive minded coach that was committed to the run and never got him a really good WR but unlike Sanchez he didn't fold often like a cheap suit! I honestly think that if you put Simms on an AFC East team and gave him someone like Irving Fryar or Andre Reed as his top receiver he puts up better stats than any QB in the AFC except for Elway and Marino. Also Phil joined a team with a culture of losing. Back in ’79 the team had gone 15 years in a row without ever reaching the playoffs. He was a leader and turned the ship around. Phil suffered so many injuries because he was behind an awful oline early in his career, just see how Sanchez reacted with Hunter helping him. I am not sure but I think Phil even took the most sacks of a QB in a single year which wasn't broken until recently. Even with all that against him, Sports Illustrated in 2007 called Phil the most under-rated QB of all time. Just letting you know I am a homer but I will give the devil his do! It sounds like the WHOLE family was Giants fans to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelticwizard Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Can't remember was it against Minny or LA Rams? Minny. In Simms' first Super Bowl year. http://www.nytimes.com/1986/11/17/sports/sports-of-the-times-phil-simms-s-biggest-pass.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Minny. In Simms' first Super Bowl year. http://www.nytimes.com/1986/11/17/sports/sports-of-the-times-phil-simms-s-biggest-pass.html Thanks. Thought it was Minny. Cant believe I had down to two teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 It sounds like the WHOLE family was Giants fans to me. Scary stuff my friend but they all wear the Jets gear now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sackdance Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Simms tended to have his best moments week by week in each game when it mattered most. His coach emphasized ball control and defense, so his numbers weren't flashy, but it seems when the big play needed to be made Simms made it more often that not. That's pretty much it. You don't need a HOF quarterback to win big - you need one that can execute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 That's pretty much it. You don't need a HOF quarterback to win big - you need one that can execute. Every time I hear that word I think of John McKay and his answer to a reporter about what he thought of his teams execution.. He said I would be all for it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Every time I hear that word I think of John McKay and his answer to a reporter about what he thought of his teams execution.. He said I would be all for it.. Still one of the greatest lines of all time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Thinking Dilfer would be a better comparison Fitz is nowhere near Dilfer either. Go down to the Matt Moore's and Kyle ortons. QBs who fool people b/c they put up decent #s but cannot play under pressure and cannot make big plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyjunc Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Can't remember was it against Minny or LA Rams? Minnesota 1986. I remember I was visiting my Grandfather in the hospital and watching that game. I was happy they were about to lose then he makes that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Bobby Johnson #88. He was decent, but did not stick around long. Set up the game winner by "My name's Raoul I kick for seven different teams." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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