Tony Pauline's thoughts on Macc; highlights a potential prospect

[Dinamite]

From draft analyst.com

 

Getting back to last week’s NFLPA game, sources on hand tell me one player who really impressed was Jonathan Calvin, the sleeper defensive lineman from Mississippi State we first mentioned during our St. Petersburg Bowl preview. Teams like the big man’s athleticism, movement skills and pass-rushing ability.

One team that seems keen on Calvin is the New York Jets. I’m told the Jets, who had a big presence at NFLPA practices, twice interviewed Calvin. General manager Mike Maccagnan took part in one of the interviews.

On a personal note, I believe the criticisms of Maccagnan are way off base. The Jets general manager is a meticulous and detailed worker as well as a terrific scout.

Maccagnan took over a team riddled with holes and -- in two drafts -- fortified the defensive line, rebuilt the linebacker core and set up the receiver position for the future.

There are still holes, but it was never going to be an overnight fix.

Those who watch Maccagnan work appreciate his attention to detail.

[CrazyCarl40]

Fortified the defensive line? Mo and Sheldon were already here. He actually lost Snacks. 

Rebuilt the linebacker core? The best LBer last season was David Harris. There is hope that Lee and Jenkins can be solid, but it's certainly not rebuilt. 

I'll give him that there are some solid pieces at receiver, but give me a break on the other two points. The guy is about to revamp the secondary for the second time in three years. 

[Dinamite]

What about this player they have met with 2 times.   He is a DE, but maybe they are looking at him as OLB.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Fortified the defensive line? Mo and Sheldon were already here. He actually lost Snacks. 

Rebuilt the linebacker core? The best LBer last season was David Harris. There is hope that Lee and Jenkins can be solid, but it's certainly not rebuilt. 

I'll give him that there are some solid pieces at receiver, but give me a break on the other two points. The guy is about to revamp the secondary for the second time in three years. 

Agreed, that was possibly the worst defense of Maccagnan I've read yet. It's amazing that Pauline doesn't have 40k votes on this message board. That's how stupid he sounded there.

[Beerfish]

Though I dislike Lee a great deal I like both mauldin and Jenkins, the whole issue here for me is Mac is providing bowles with players for a certain system and bowles system stinks to high heaven.  Mac has been very good from rounds 3 to udfa but at this point to me he is 1 for 4 in the 1st two rounds and that ain't good.

All the more reason we shouldn't have signed some of these stop gap vets last year.  We could have had maybe two more comp picks otherwise.

[PepPep]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Though I dislike Lee a great deal I like both mauldin and Jenkins, the whole issue here for me is Mac is providing bowles with players for a certain system and bowles system stinks to high heaven.  Mac has been very good from rounds 3 to udfa but at this point to me he is 1 for 4 in the 1st two rounds and that ain't good.

All the more reason we shouldn't have signed some of these stop gap vets last year.  We could have had maybe two more comp picks otherwise.

Ok. So first I just want to ask why you 'dislike Lee a great deal'? 

Second. I want to point out that Macc has had 2 drafts. I know its tough for fans to see players selected in the first two rounds not produce immediately on the field. So when you say he is 1 for 4, it pretty much eliminates any notion of player development. 

Let's look at the 4 players you are talking about. 

L.Williams- he's a stud. He's your one of four.

D.Smith- mired by injuries. Did not have injury issues i college (unlike Milliner), so there is really no way Macc could have expected any injury issues with Smith. When he WAS helthy, Fitz did not play to his strength as a deep threat. But ok. He has been healthy and could not get on the field for any legitimate snaps (special teams only).  This will be his 3rd season and if he stays healthy he will get a chance to show what he can do. But let's just assume that indeed this kid is a bust and a flat out bad pick by Macc.

D.Lee- rookie playing ILB. When healthy, he was all over the field, for a while leading the Jets in tackles. He struggled in coverage. But again, we're talking about a rookie playing ILB and responsible for covering NFL TE's his first year in the NFL. Some of these guys make Pro Bowl MLB's look bad. So even if you look past the notion that Lee will develop and get better, even just in his second year, he's already a decent starter that at the very least has his nose around the ball.

C.Hack- rookie that has yet to play. I mean, seriously, anyone who assumes this kid will be a bust or a star or anything is either Nostradamus or has blinders on and refuses to accept reality. HE HAS NOT PLAYED. Unless you want to assume that he has not played b/c he absolutely sucks- which is completely inaccurate and does not fit anything the Jets CS or FO have said about him- there is simply no way to judge this kid until we see him play at least A FEW meaningful games.  

So the way I look it, Macc got 1 stud, 1 potential bust, 1 promising young talent, and 1 complete unknown. Conclusion: it's too early to tell. Simple as that.

There is exactly ONE player that Macc drafted who is no longer on the Jets: J.Harrison. Let that sink in for a minute. ONE guy, in ALL selections that is n longer on the team. And he is still in the league, holding on to a reserve spot on the Bucs. Believe it or not, he could still develop into a backup or even starter in the NFL.   

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, PepPep said:

Ok. So first I just want to ask why you 'dislike Lee a great deal'? 

Second. I want to point out that Macc has had 2 drafts. I know its tough for fans to see players selected in the first two rounds not produce immediately on the field. So when you say he is 1 for 4, it pretty much eliminates any notion of player development. 

Let's look at the 4 players you are talking about. 

L.Williams- he's a stud. He's your one of four.

D.Smith- mired by injuries. Did not have injury issues i college (unlike Milliner), so there is really no way Macc could have expected any injury issues with Smith. When he WAS helthy, Fitz did not play to his strength as a deep threat. But ok. He has been healthy and could not get on the field for any legitimate snaps (special teams only).  This will be his 3rd season and if he stays healthy he will get a chance to show what he can do. But let's just assume that indeed this kid is a bust and a flat out bad pick by Macc.

D.Lee- rookie playing ILB. When healthy, he was all over the field, for a while leading the Jets in tackles. He struggled in coverage. But again, we're talking about a rookie playing ILB and responsible for covering NFL TE's his first year in the NFL. Some of these guys make Pro Bowl MLB's look bad. So even if you look past the notion that Lee will develop and get better, even just in his second year, he's already a decent starter that at the very least has his nose around the ball.

C.Hack- rookie that has yet to play. I mean, seriously, anyone who assumes this kid will be a bust or a star or anything is either Nostradamus or has blinders on and refuses to accept reality. HE HAS NOT PLAYED. Unless you want to assume that he has not played b/c he absolutely sucks- which is completely inaccurate and does not fit anything the Jets CS or FO have said about him- there is simply no way to judge this kid until we see him play at least A FEW meaningful games.  

So the way I look it, Macc got 1 stud, 1 potential bust, 1 promising young talent, and 1 complete unknown. Conclusion: it's too early to tell. Simple as that.

There is exactly ONE player that Macc drafted who is no longer on the Jets: J.Harrison. Let that sink in for a minute. ONE guy, in ALL selections that is n longer on the team. And he is still in the league, holding on to a reserve spot on the Bucs. Believe it or not, he could still develop into a backup or even starter in the NFL.   

I didn't like Lee before the draft.  A niche player who is fast but has suspect instincts, take poor angles and did nothing that he was supposed to do to justify taking him at 20 (half a sack, no ints and got toasted in pass coverage often.)

John Idzik only had two drafts.

Not playing does not mean a guy is good, not playing means a guy is either bad or he is a long term development project and you don't take those guys in the 2nd round.

Devin Smith looked poor when he got to play year one.  He then tuned the ball over for a td in a big game.  He then got hurt twice, he then came back last year and looked lousy.  In the meantime 3 guys (7th rounder and 2 udfa) have passed him in the pecking order.  And that is just what is going to happen to Hackenburg while we wait for him to 'develop' we will bring in some 6th or 7th rounder that will look better than him from day one.

[dbatesman]

17 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Fortified the defensive line? Mo and Sheldon were already here. He actually lost Snacks. 

Rebuilt the linebacker core? The best LBer last season was David Harris. There is hope that Lee and Jenkins can be solid, but it's certainly not rebuilt. 

I'll give him that there are some solid pieces at receiver, but give me a break on the other two points. The guy is about to revamp the secondary for the second time in three years. 

Said it before, but it bears repeating: literally every problem he inherited two years ago is still a problem now.

[thadude]

Mac deserves one more year.  If he does an Idzik he's gone after next year

[CrazyCarl40]

9 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Said it before, but it bears repeating: literally every problem he inherited two years ago is still a problem now.

Scream it louder for the people in the back!!

[C Mart]

23 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Fortified the defensive line? Mo and Sheldon were already here. He actually lost Snacks. 

Rebuilt the linebacker core? The best LBer last season was David Harris. There is hope that Lee and Jenkins can be solid, but it's certainly not rebuilt. 

I'll give him that there are some solid pieces at receiver, but give me a break on the other two points. The guy is about to revamp the secondary for the second time in three years. 

Leo & Simon. UDFA Thomas. Might have a good rotational guy in Anthony Johnson  

Lee, Mauldin, Jenkins. All are starters and on the field for majority of D plays. 

 

[C Mart]

7 hours ago, PepPep said:

Ok. So first I just want to ask why you 'dislike Lee a great deal'? 

Second. I want to point out that Macc has had 2 drafts. I know its tough for fans to see players selected in the first two rounds not produce immediately on the field. So when you say he is 1 for 4, it pretty much eliminates any notion of player development. 

Let's look at the 4 players you are talking about. 

L.Williams- he's a stud. He's your one of four.

D.Smith- mired by injuries. Did not have injury issues i college (unlike Milliner), so there is really no way Macc could have expected any injury issues with Smith. When he WAS helthy, Fitz did not play to his strength as a deep threat. But ok. He has been healthy and could not get on the field for any legitimate snaps (special teams only).  This will be his 3rd season and if he stays healthy he will get a chance to show what he can do. But let's just assume that indeed this kid is a bust and a flat out bad pick by Macc.

D.Lee- rookie playing ILB. When healthy, he was all over the field, for a while leading the Jets in tackles. He struggled in coverage. But again, we're talking about a rookie playing ILB and responsible for covering NFL TE's his first year in the NFL. Some of these guys make Pro Bowl MLB's look bad. So even if you look past the notion that Lee will develop and get better, even just in his second year, he's already a decent starter that at the very least has his nose around the ball.

C.Hack- rookie that has yet to play. I mean, seriously, anyone who assumes this kid will be a bust or a star or anything is either Nostradamus or has blinders on and refuses to accept reality. HE HAS NOT PLAYED. Unless you want to assume that he has not played b/c he absolutely sucks- which is completely inaccurate and does not fit anything the Jets CS or FO have said about him- there is simply no way to judge this kid until we see him play at least A FEW meaningful games.  

So the way I look it, Macc got 1 stud, 1 potential bust, 1 promising young talent, and 1 complete unknown. Conclusion: it's too early to tell. Simple as that.

There is exactly ONE player that Macc drafted who is no longer on the Jets: J.Harrison. Let that sink in for a minute. ONE guy, in ALL selections that is n longer on the team. And he is still in the league, holding on to a reserve spot on the Bucs. Believe it or not, he could still develop into a backup or even starter in the NFL.   

Good luck with this. I already know where it's going. 

[CrazyCarl40]

59 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Leo & Simon. UDFA Thomas. Might have a good rotational guy in Anthony Johnson  

Lee, Mauldin, Jenkins. All are starters and on the field for majority of D plays. 

Ha a good rotational guy in Douzable. Leo was overkill. Simon may be solid but again, the defensive line was fine before Macc. 

Mauldin was not starting and definitely not on the field the majority of the plays. Neither was Jen,ins until the end of the season. Lee has much to prove. 

And let's not forget, despite your claims here it was still one of the worst defenses in the NFL. 

[C Mart]

17 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Ha a good rotational guy in Douzable. Leo was overkill. Simon may be solid but again, the defensive line was fine before Macc. 

Mauldin was not starting and definitely not on the field the majority of the plays. Neither was Jen,ins until the end of the season. Lee has much to prove. 

And let's not forget, despite your claims here it was still one of the worst defenses in the NFL. 

Whatever you say. 

[PepPep]

13 hours ago, C Mart said:

Good luck with this. I already know where it's going. 

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but all I was trying to point out is that you have to give players time to develop. Yes, you analyze them throughout the season, their potential, how they are progressing. etc., etc. That's the job of the coaching staff who see them in practice, watch them up close, talk to them, etc. etc.

But as fans, coming out and stating that X player is a bust and Y player is future Pro Bowler after one season is silly. Sure, sometimes its clear that the player is a stud (Leo), sometimes its clear that the player is a bust (usually gets cut)- but this does not happen to the majority of draft picks. Often times it's difficult to judge a player even after his sophomore season. Especially if one of those seasons the player was hampered by injuries (Smith, Mauldin), especially if he sat out his rookie year so he could develop (Hack, Petty). The first example that pops into my head is Vic Beasley. He was drafted in the top 10. Expected to make an immediate impact- specifically as a pass rusher, right? Rookie year: 16 games played, 4 sacks. So he's a bust, right? Sophomore season: 16 games played, 15.5 sacks. Oh, wait, not a bust after all.   

Therefore, you can't really judge a GM on his draft picks after one or even two seasons. That's just how it is. And QBs are often kept on the bench for at least one season for exactly that reason. I can bring up a ton of examples of this but just look at the #1 overall pick last year (Goff). Who didn't play despite poor QBs ahead of him, much like the situation with the Jets except Hack was a late 2nd rounder and clearly, whether you like him being picked in Rd. 2 or not, a developmental player. 

For the record, again- whether you agree or not, I believe Hack will surprise people this year. Simply b/c if his smarts, work ethic, and leadership qualities. I think you will see him at the very least EARN the backup role. But probably be close to getting the starter spot. 

[C Mart]

3 minutes ago, PepPep said:

I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but all I was trying to point out is that you have to give players time to develop. Yes, you analyze them throughout the season, their potential, how they are progressing. etc., etc. That's the job of the coaching staff who see them in practice, watch them up close, talk to them, etc. etc.

But as fans, coming out and stating that X player is a bust and Y player is future Pro Bowler after one season is silly. Sure, sometimes its clear that the player is a stud (Leo), sometimes its clear that the player is a bust (usually gets cut)- but this does not happen to the majority of draft picks. Often times it's difficult to judge a player even after his sophomore season. Especially if one of those seasons the player was hampered by injuries (Smith, Mauldin), especially if he sat out his rookie year so he could develop (Hack, Petty). The first example that pops into my head is Vic Beasley. He was drafted in the top 10. Expected to make an immediate impact- specifically as a pass rusher, right? Rookie year: 16 games played, 4 sacks. So he's a bust, right? Sophomore season: 16 games played, 15.5 sacks. Oh, wait, not a bust after all.   

Therefore, you can't really judge a GM on his draft picks after one or even two seasons. That's just how it is. And QBs are often kept on the bench for at least one season for exactly that reason. I can bring up a ton of examples of this but just look at the #1 overall pick last year (Goff). Who didn't play despite poor QBs ahead of him, much like the situation with the Jets except Hack was a late 2nd rounder.  

We're in agreement, as are a few others here. Unfortunately, there are a lot of pro scouts on here and if 1st, 2nd year players don't become pro bowlers / HOFers they deem them busts and want them cut.

As for the GM, I'd even say after 3 years depending on the situation he inherited, such as Mccagnan.

[Adoni Beast]

I think Mac gets a lot of hate here thats typical overreacting from a bad season. You dont go from Executive of the Year to He's Clueless the next. He's been good to ok overall. Im not blown away, nor do I think he should be fired. 

I think he's put a good foundation of starters and role players so far. What he needs to do though is get a couple more really impact star players. Or the most we'll ever be is medicore at best.  

[King P]

Tony on Mitch Trubisky and the Jets interest in him

Quote

 

The first full day of activities at the Senior Bowl is in the books, and it was a full day. Now that it’s complete, here’s what we are hearing from the halls of the players’ hotel.

Much of the conversation centered on a player not in attendance at the Senior Bowl: North Carolina quarterback Mitch Trubisky.

There is a split opinion on the junior signal-caller; there are teams who like Trubisky and teams who like him but are concerned about his lack of starting experience. There were similar concerns a year ago over Carson Wentz -- who started just a year and a half -- and though the circumstances are slightly different, those concerns turned out to be unfounded.

As most are aware, Trubisky came out of nowhere to start under center for the Tar Heels in 2016 and justifiably grades as the top signal-caller for April’s draft.

There has been a lot made in the New York press over the alleged love affair the Jets have with the signal-caller.

People I’ve spoke with here in Mobile tempered that enthusiasm a bit but say the Jets are definitely part of a pack of teams at the top of the draft considering Trubisky.

There’s a bit of risk for Mike Maccagnan if he takes Trubisky on the heels of selecting Christian Hackenberg in the second round of the 2016 draft.

If the Jets select Trubisky and he does not quickly produce, Maccagnan’s tenure with the team will likely come to an end.

 

 

[thadude]

2 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

I think Mac gets a lot of hate here thats typical overreacting from a bad season. You dont go from Executive of the Year to He's Clueless the next. He's been good to ok overall. Im not blown away, nor do I think he should be fired. 

I think he's put a good foundation of starters and role players so far. What he needs to do though is get a couple more really impact star players. Or the most we'll ever be is medicore at best.  

Mac has to have a good draft and sign a couple quality FA's otherwise he'll be helping Idzik get coffee in Jacksonville

[Adoni Beast]

If Mac goes after Trubisky, then he is definitely putting his job on the line. He can't miss on him. Hack or Trubisky would absolutely have to become a franchise starter for him to be saved.

[CrazyCarl40]

2 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

I think Mac gets a lot of hate here thats typical overreacting from a bad season. You dont go from Executive of the Year to He's Clueless the next. He's been good to ok overall. Im not blown away, nor do I think he should be fired. 

I think he's put a good foundation of starters and role players so far. What he needs to do though is get a couple more really impact star players. Or the most we'll ever be is medicore at best.  

Who? What starters on this team right now did Macc bring in that they aren't looking to cut this offseason? 

[Adoni Beast]

13 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Who? What starters on this team right now did Macc bring in that they aren't looking to cut this offseason? 

Leo, Jenkins, Lee, I think Burris has potential to be a good #2 cb, Robbie Anderson, Simon, Shell looks like he'll be a decent starter. Also resigning Powell was a good call. Mo, looked terrible this year. But, hoping he'll bounce back next year.

besides Leo, I'm not calling any of the guys I mentioned pro bowlers. But theyre not scrubs and have potential to be good starters, or good depth. 

[CrazyCarl40]

1 minute ago, Adoni Beast said:

Leo, Jenkins, Lee, I think Burris has potential to be a good #2 cb, Robbie Anderson, Simon, Shell looks like he'll be a decent starter. Also resigning Powell was a good call. Mo, looked terrible this year. But, hoping he'll bounce back next year.

besides Leo, I'm not calling any of the guys I mentioned pro bowlers. But theyre not scrubs and have potential to be good starters, or good depth. 

Leo is the only full time starter on that list. Potential and looks like is unicorns and pots of gold. 

[UnitedWhofans]

On 1/23/2017 at 9:16 PM, CrazyCarl40 said:

Fortified the defensive line? Mo and Sheldon were already here. He actually lost Snacks. 

Rebuilt the linebacker core? The best LBer last season was David Harris. There is hope that Lee and Jenkins can be solid, but it's certainly not rebuilt. 

I'll give him that there are some solid pieces at receiver, but give me a break on the other two points. The guy is about to revamp the secondary for the second time in three years. 

So you're saying Tony Pauline is a liar

[UnitedWhofans]

On 1/24/2017 at 2:39 PM, dbatesman said:

Said it before, but it bears repeating: literally every problem he inherited two years ago is still a problem now.

OL depth, WR depth have been solved. Next complaint

[dbatesman]

20 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

OL depth, WR depth have been solved. Next complaint

Here's one: no one gives a tin sh*t about depth when the starters need to be replaced.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, dbatesman said:

Here's one: no one gives a tin sh*t about depth when the starters need to be replaced.

But that was a problem before that is now solved. That was your criteria. Next

[dbatesman]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

But that was a problem before that is now solved. That was your criteria. Next

You're the best.

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, dbatesman said:

You're the best.

Thank you

[Larz]

doesn't Tony post here?

[nyjbuddy]

Maccagnan can fill a couple of these via free agency and then hopefully find some in the early rounds of the draft.  He has done a good job so far, just needs to continue to rebuild and fill the holes.  

Season Summary: 
It's amazing how much can change in a year. In 2015, the Jets were 10-6 and were one victory away from reaching the playoffs. This past season, they bottomed out and finished with one of the worst records in the NFL. Unfortunately for the Jets, they're not close to reaching postseason status, as they have nothing resembling a franchise quarterback. 

Offseason Moves:

Jets re-sign G Brian Winters 

Team Needs:

1. Quarterback: This is the obvious top need. Ryan Fitzpatrick and Geno Smith are impending free agents, and they were never good anyway. Christian Hackenberg is probably a sunk cost, so New York will investigate the possibility of selecting a quarterback at No. 5 overall. 
    
2. Two Offensive Tackles: Regardless of whether or not the Jets obtain a franchise quarterback, they'll have to upgrade both offensive tackle slots. Ryan Clady was a huge bust acquisition this past season. 
    
3. Two Cornerbacks: Darrelle Revis' play has fallen off a cliff, as there have been reports that he isn't in love with football anymore, prompting his effort level to drop. Revis will likely be released, so the Jets will need to find a replacement as well as another corner. 
    
4. Nose Tackle: Steve McLendon was a failure as a replacement for Damon "Snacks" Harrison, who signed with the Giants last offseason. 
    
5. Edge Rusher: The Jets haven't possessed a dynamic edge rusher in a very long time. They've had Sheldon Richardson playing on the edge, but they'd be better off finding a natural linebacker and moving Richardson to the defensive line. 
    
6. Safety: More help is needed in the secondary, as Calvin Pryor must be upgraded.   
7. Inside Linebacker: David Harris is a 33-year-old heading into his contract year. The Jets will have to think about finding some young blood at the position to complement Darron Lee, who must improve. 
    
8. Guard: Here's another offensive line position that will need to be addressed if New York loses Brian Winters to free agency. Re-signed Brian Winters 
    
9. Running Back: Matt Forte had some solid games this past season, but he's on his last legs and won't be as effective going forward. The Jets can probably get away with him as their starter for one more year, but that's about it. 
    
10. Tight End: The Jets didn't use a tight end on offense last year, but that was by design. If Chan Gailey is let go, they'll have to find an upgrade at the position. 
     
11. Punter: Lachlan Edwards was one of the worst punters in the NFL this past season, though he was just a rookie.

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/offseason2017nyj.php#yZvdh47VGUwpOPrv.99

[C Mart]

Tony Pauline (@TonyPauline)

1/25/17, 5:59 PM

Antonio Garcia /T/Troy told me he has met with the NY Jets.

 

getting good reviews. 

[CrazyCarl40]

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

So you're saying Tony Pauline is a liar

I'm saying his opinion is incorrect. You know what that's like, don't ya?

[CrazyCarl40]

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

OL depth, WR depth have been solved. Next complaint

The Jets have no starting left tackle. Who is the depth at guard? Or the starting RT or the depth there? 

[UnitedWhofans]

26 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Jets have no starting left tackle. Who is the depth at guard? Or the starting RT or the depth there? 

Dakota Dozier, Brent Qvale, Ben Ijalana, Wesley Johnson. There's your depth.

Starters as of this moment. Shell, Carpenter, Mangold, Winters. Get the LT in FA.