interesting mmqb read

[rangerous]

jimmie johnson says that if a team isn't competitive after three drafts someone needs to be fired. the article is about the browns and how they are approaching the draft.  they've had quite a few draft picks over the past three drafts.  anyway it makes sense on many levels and this is going to be mac's show me draft.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/03/cleveland-browns-paul-depodesta-nfl-draft-peter-king

[Matt39]

What sucks is we know the Jets are about 30 years behind. I like what Cleveland is doing.

[Tinstar]

18 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

What sucks is we know the Jets are about 30 years behind. I like what Cleveland is doing.

Yes, the Jets are, but not this regime and that needs to be understood . I can't wait for this draft, because I can't understand how the Jets could screw this up . Way too many options . 

[dbatesman]

9 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I can't understand how the Jets could screw this up 

um

[UnitedWhofans]

34 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

What sucks is we know the Jets are about 30 years behind. I like what Cleveland is doing.

Cleveland has to prove they can draft first. They've been in the top 5-10 picks for years consecutively and have gotten nowhere. The Jets have not been consistently in the top 5 or 10

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

um

Yeah, never say that Tinstar.

[Integrity28]

19 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

I can't understand how the Jets could screw this up .

 

10 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

um

POST OF THE OFFSEASON.

[Joe Jets fan]

100 picks and zero QB and they will still suck.  

[varjet]

For the first 2 years of his tenure, Mac traded too many picks and tried to use picks to fill holes so that he could support Woody's competitive rebuild.  He also tried to give Bowles and Gailey what they said they needed.  

I am willing to spot Mac a year, making this year 2, with particular focus on this year's and next year's draft.

I think Woody is looking at it around the same way.

If I were Macc I would be picking players that will make the team better long term, not what Bowles wants.  Who knows how long he is here.

[j4jets]

49 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

What sucks is we know the Jets are about 30 years behind. I like what Cleveland is doing.

What Cleveland has been doing, is what they've been doing since, well, since they re-joined the NFL back in the 90s. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, j4jets said:

What Cleveland has been doing, is what they've been doing since, well, since they re-joined the NFL back in the 90s. 

Exactly. The fact that they are still doing what they're doing shows how bad they've been at doing it. Essentially, this is the first time the Jets are doing it since the mid-90s.

[j4jets]

1 minute ago, varjet said:

For the first 2 years of his tenure, Mac traded too many picks and tried to use picks to fill holes so that he could support Woody's competitive rebuild.  He also tried to give Bowles and Gailey what they said they needed.  

I am willing to spot Mac a year, making this year 2, with particular focus on this year's and next year's draft.

I think Woody is looking at it around the same way.

If I were Macc I would be picking players that will make the team better long term, not what Bowles wants.  Who knows how long he is here.

Macc built the "competitive rebuild" team. Its not Woody's fault Macc effed up on every single big contract he handed out besides Carpenter's. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, j4jets said:

Macc built the "competitive rebuild" team. Its not Woody's fault Macc effed up on every single big contract he handed out besides Carpenter's. 

It's not Macc's fault either if the players available were bad for long contracts. It's like going to a second rate store and forced to shop. 

[j4jets]

1 minute ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Exactly. The fact that they are still doing what they're doing shows how bad they've been at doing it. Essentially, this is the first time the Jets are doing it since the mid-90s.

Not by choice. We are in this spot due to some bad roster management. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, j4jets said:

Not by choice. We are in this spot due to some bad roster management. 

Can't agree with you. Woody could have pulled the rip cord at several points and chose not to.

[j4jets]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

It's not Macc's fault either if the players available were bad for long contracts. It's like going to a second rate store and forced to shop. 

I disagree there. With the way the cap is now structured, you can wait a year to spend that cap. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, j4jets said:

I disagree there. With the way the cap is now structured, you can wait a year to spend that cap. 

The problem was that Idzik waited that year already. So he was forced to shop.

The only big signing that I blame him for is Skrine. In fact, come to think it, what big players did he sign other than Revis, Skrine, and Gilchrist? To long term deals

[j4jets]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

Can't agree with you. Woody could have pulled the rip cord at several points and chose not to.

You can't pull the "rip cord" every two years. Macc lucked out in his first year. Then he effed up the whole Fitztragic train-wreck. Now he's looking to draft a QB but he already kicked off his #1 WR. Its the exact same mistake Tanny made. You don't draft a QB with one injury prone WR and then keep knocking on wood. Marshall wasn't making much this year at all and still had plenty in the tank. Its not his fault we had the NFL's worst QB. The move to cut Marshall was a major mistake unless you're going into a full fledged rebuild. And you don't go into a full fledged rebuild in year 3 unless you effed up in the first two years. 

[j4jets]

4 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

The problem was that Idzik waited that year already. So he was forced to shop.

The only big signing that I blame him for is Skrine. In fact, come to think it, what big players did he sign other than Revis, Skrine, and Gilchrist? To long term deals

Every player he paid anything above $5mil was either cut, or is overpaid, besides Carp. Every player. When you're cutting players before their contracts are expired, somewhere along the line you made a mistake. Macc has no idea how comp picks work. Patriots thrive at it. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, j4jets said:

You can't pull the "rip cord" every two years. Macc lucked out in his first year. Then he effed up the whole Fitztragic train-wreck. Now he's looking to draft a QB but he already kicked off his #1 WR. Its the exact same mistake Tanny made. You don't draft a QB with one injury prone WR and then keep knocking on wood. Marshall wasn't making much this year at all and still had plenty in the tank. Its not his fault we had the NFL's worst QB. The move to cut Marshall was a major mistake unless you're going into a full fledged rebuild. And you don't go into a full fledged rebuild in year 3 unless you effed up in the first two years. 

I wouldn't say "effed up" I would say he "delayed the inevitable".

I will also say that unlike under Tanny, the Jets have better depth at WR to soften the blow.

And I don't think they are drafting a QB

[UnitedWhofans]

5 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Every player he paid anything above $5mil was either cut, or is overpaid, besides Carp. Every player. When you're cutting players before their contracts are expired, somewhere along the line you made a mistake. Macc has no idea how comp picks work. Patriots thrive at it. 

Yes he does because we are getting a comp pick this year, which we wouldn't have had Macc not released Jarvis Jenkins at the right time.

And I don't just count money as determining a "big contract" Years has to come into play, which is why I don't count Fitzpatrick as a "big contract" because it was for a year. 

These are the big contracts that Macc has handed out to FA's (not counting keeping own players), IMO.

-Revis (don't blame him because Revis was top CB on market that year)

-Skrine (do blame him for that because he has been bad)

-Gilchrist (Had a career best first year, then got injury problems and is still on the team)

-Carpenter (Has worked out very well)

-Forte (Too early to call)

So of those 5, I would give him 1 A, 1 F, 2 C's and an incomplete. Which rounds to about a C, which is average.

Unless I am forgetting someone who has signed for more than 1 year and more than 5m

[Integrity28]

20 minutes ago, Joe Jets fan said:

100 picks and zero QB and they will still suck.  

This.

24 hours-a-day sports reporting has people are blabbing about nothing. You either find a QB, or you don't. There's no formula other than find a QB. They changed a sh*t-ton of rules specifically making success tied 100% to having a QB. 

Have a QB, and an owner that pays the way for a cheating culture, and you'll have a dynasty.

[Paradis]

3 strikes baby.... 

[dbatesman]

35 minutes ago, j4jets said:

What Cleveland has been doing, is what they've been doing since, well, since they re-joined the NFL back in the 90s. 

 

34 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Exactly. The fact that they are still doing what they're doing shows how bad they've been at doing it. Essentially, this is the first time the Jets are doing it since the mid-90s.

Wrong and wronger.

[j4jets]

2 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I wouldn't say "effed up" I would say he "delayed the inevitable".

I will also say that unlike under Tanny, the Jets have better depth at WR to soften the blow.

And I don't think they are drafting a QB

I'll give you that one. Depth. We just don't have the starters. Decker will get hurt like most years. Anderson and Q as our #1 and #2? meh. Worse than Holmes n Edwards. 

[j4jets]

38 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Yes he does because we are getting a comp pick this year, which we wouldn't have had Macc not released Jarvis Jenkins at the right time.

And I don't just count money as determining a "big contract" Years has to come into play, which is why I don't count Fitzpatrick as a "big contract" because it was for a year. 

These are the big contracts that Macc has handed out to FA's (not counting keeping own players), IMO.

-Revis (don't blame him because Revis was top CB on market that year)

-Skrine (do blame him for that because he has been bad)

-Gilchrist (Had a career best first year, then got injury problems and is still on the team)

-Carpenter (Has worked out very well)

-Forte (Too early to call)

So of those 5, I would give him 1 A, 1 F, 2 C's and an incomplete. Which rounds to about a C, which is average.

Unless I am forgetting someone who has signed for more than 1 year and more than 5m

Add Cro (released after a year on a 4 year deal), Mo, Fitz (worst contract ever, how do we NOT count him?). And Revis deal was a failure. So was Forte. Ran him to the ground and had nothing in the tank and his first two years were guaranteed. Can't be worse than that for an old RB. Again, only Carpenter has worked out. Bunch of misses. Not 1, not 2, but more like 7 misses out of 8. 

[peebag]

4 minutes ago, j4jets said:

I'll give you that one. Depth. We just don't have the starters. Decker will get hurt like most years. Anderson and Q as our #1 and #2? meh. Worse than Holmes n Edwards. 

Good possibility that Decker gets cut.

[j4jets]

24 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

 

Wrong and wronger.

Says the wrongest

[jack48]

I don't get it  ----  I remember saying pre season that the jets would probablly be 7-9, but there is always the chance of a Geno late hit that gets you an undeserved victory so I considered 8-8 a possibility.  This knowing in my heart of hearts that Fitz would revert.  BUt a lot of folks thought the Jets could get to the playoffs.  Some of them were writers.  Fine.  They know more than me. I must just hate Fitz.  But whether I hate him or not, simple logic told me they should blow it up last year.  (Heck--they should hve blown it up Year One)  Even if Fitz played well, they were at best a first round out in the playoffs.  Heck, he had never even gotten to the playoffs. What were they shooting for?  A year of faux respectability followed by years of famine?  I was not hte only person saying that.  Macc and Woody and Todd decide what the hell let's give it another shot.  Now we are looking at a wasted year and a couple more to come.  I just cannot bring myself to blame Macc for that. It smells so much like Woody.  And macc does not run the show, Woody does  But here I am, convinced that Bowles stinks and not knowing what Macc is.  So, we will not be good after 3 drafts.  Not sure that statement has any real value, in fact.  B ut what we do not know after 2 years is whether Macc can build a team.  Because he has been engaged in shoring up a shaky foundation, and not building.

[UnitedWhofans]

29 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Add Cro (released after a year on a 4 year deal), Mo, Fitz (worst contract ever, how do we NOT count him?). And Revis deal was a failure. So was Forte. Ran him to the ground and had nothing in the tank and his first two years were guaranteed. Can't be worse than that for an old RB. Again, only Carpenter has worked out. Bunch of misses. Not 1, not 2, but more like 7 misses out of 8. 

1. Mo doesnt count because I wasn't counting keeping his own players. I said that before.

2. You can't grade a FA deal after one year, unless he's been removed. That's dumb. So Forte remains incomplete.

3. Fitz  doesn't count because those are 2 1 year deals. And 1 year deals don't count. Those aren't big contracts. I'm talking multi-year contracts.

4. If Cromartie was a 4 year deal, very well. So that would make it 

1 A (Carpenter)

2 C's (Revis and Gilchrist, because both were good the first year, sucked or got injured the second year)

2 F's. (Skrine and Cromartie)

[j4jets]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

1. Mo doesnt count because I wasn't counting keeping his own players. I said that before.

2. You can't grade a FA deal after one year, unless he's been removed. That's dumb. So Forte remains incomplete.

3. Fitz  doesn't count because those are 2 1 year deals. And 1 year deals don't count. Those aren't big contracts. I'm talking multi-year contracts.

4. If Cromartie was a 4 year deal, very well. So that would make it 

1 A (Carpenter)

2 C's (Revis and Gilchrist, because both were good the first year, sucked or got injured the second year)

2 F's. (Skrine and Cromartie)

Mo counts for a massive chunk of the salary. He DOES count. 

No, Forte bombed out. If it wasn't for his guaranteed money, he'd be a FA.

Fitz counts because we paid him $12mil to be the worst QB in the NFL. Thats something. 

1 A

7 Fs

You're giving Skrine an F where as he wasn't even the worst signing. And he's our starter. Thanks Macc. 

[UnitedWhofans]

4 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Mo counts for a massive chunk of the salary. He DOES count. 

No, Forte bombed out. If it wasn't for his guaranteed money, he'd be a FA.

Fitz counts because we paid him $12mil to be the worst QB in the NFL. Thats something. 

1 A

7 Fs

You're giving Skrine an F where as he wasn't even the worst signing. And he's our starter. Thanks Macc. 

I said in the beginning when I made my first comment that I was not counting signing his own players. That was a condition to begin with. 

I also made it a condition that the deals had to be more than 1 year deals. Because 1 year deals, in the long run, don't hurt you. They come up and they go away. Unlike what the Texans did with Osweiler and had to give draft picks up just for somebody to take him off their hands. We didn't have to do that with Fitz. So those don't count.

If Forte sucks next year, then we will move it into the failure column. Until then, it's incomplete.

BTW, I neglected to mention that if Gilchrist isn't cut, he can bounce back and raise his C grade.

Now because of the addition of Cromartie, we've lowered Macc's overall outside FA grade from a C to a C-/D+; which isn't good anyway. So essentially, we've arrived at the same conclusion

[Larz]

I'm not worried, we have woody's younger brother !

[rangerous]

4 hours ago, j4jets said:

You can't pull the "rip cord" every two years. Macc lucked out in his first year. Then he effed up the whole Fitztragic train-wreck. Now he's looking to draft a QB but he already kicked off his #1 WR. Its the exact same mistake Tanny made. You don't draft a QB with one injury prone WR and then keep knocking on wood. Marshall wasn't making much this year at all and still had plenty in the tank. Its not his fault we had the NFL's worst QB. The move to cut Marshall was a major mistake unless you're going into a full fledged rebuild. And you don't go into a full fledged rebuild in year 3 unless you effed up in the first two years. 

i can't knock mac for launching marshall.  yeah marshall had a great year in 2015 but in 2016 he caught maybe 50% of the passes thrown his way and most of those missed catches were in his hands.  imo marshall sould have a bad influence on a new qb.  not that he would show the guy how to party but marshall was pretty needy.  he was only happy when he was being thrown to.

[TuscanyTile2]

5 hours ago, varjet said:

For the first 2 years of his tenure, Mac traded too many picks and tried to use picks to fill holes so that he could support Woody's competitive rebuild.  He also tried to give Bowles and Gailey what they said they needed.  

I am willing to spot Mac a year, making this year 2, with particular focus on this year's and next year's draft.

I think Woody is looking at it around the same way.

If I were Macc I would be picking players that will make the team better long term, not what Bowles wants.  Who knows how long he is here.

 

"Competitive Rebuild" is exactly what you DON'T want to hear from your new GM. 

 

[TuscanyTile2]

6 hours ago, Matt39 said:

What sucks is we know the Jets are about 30 years behind. I like what Cleveland is doing.

Me too.  Idzik kind of followed that path but had a disastrous draft.