TNJet Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I like Scott, but he's overrated. I think we could easily draft an even more consistent tackler to put next to Harris. In other words I'd like another Harris type player, one who leads by example and talks on the field. I know that all the "Bart is the qb of the defense" guys will pop up now on this thread, but I always think about what we could've had if Vilma and Harris were our two beasts in the middle. Bart's not a bad player, I just think he's Rex's buddy and attitude on the field. I'm always thinking of ways to better our defense, and honestly, if we had a younger tackling machine out there ala Harris wow we'd be even better. Yes I know Scott had 100 tckls last year and blah blah whatever...He just makes too many bone headed plays when his mouth gets in his way come playoff time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I always think about what we could've had if Vilma and Harris were our two beasts in the middle. Big tackle numbers for our safeties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Vilma? Seriously? You are underrating Scott because of his mouth. I don't remember any boneheaded plays. If you think they could easily draft a more consistent player you are delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Big tackle numbers for our safeties? No. Vilma helped a defense win a superbowl has Bart yet? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Vilma? Seriously? You are underrating Scott because of his mouth. I don't remember any boneheaded plays. If you think they could easily draft a more consistent player you are delusional. You don't remember Bart's tripping in several games or getting into penalty fights? I sure do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno the Jet Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 No. Vilma helped a defense win a superbowl has Bart yet? No. In a 4-3 D! He would be out of place in Rex's scheme, and he was not good in Mangini's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBEAN Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 No. Vilma helped a defense win a superbowl has Bart yet? No. Vilma had an experienced Drew Breeze man. what has scott had? Vilma is a great plyer but lets not make him the reason the saints got a bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 In a 4-3 D! He would be out of place in Rex's scheme, and he was not good in Mangini's. No one was good in Mangini's. If Josh Mauga and Satele, Bellore can make plays for Rex bet your a$$ a probowler like Vilma could. He's just as big as those guys. Vilma was a very good player for us I actually hated losing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visajets Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I like Bart Scott and feel we havent seen his best yet. I did want Ray Lewis instead im not gonna lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Vilma had an experienced Drew Breeze man. what has scott had? Vilma is a great plyer but lets not make him the reason the saints got a bowl I agree it was Brees that got them there, but obviously everyone knew Vilma was the leader on defemse. He and then maybe Sharper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOP Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 You might want to watch bart's gameplay a little bit closer. Although his name isn't mentioned every play, he does a lot of the dirty work and frees up opportunities for the other players. I think Bart also brings a toughness and "swagger" to the team that would not be replaced easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 No. Vilma helped a defense win a superbowl has Bart yet? No. Yep. 20th defense in the league! Great job Vilma. He deserves as much credit as Brees! You don't remember Bart's tripping in several games or getting into penalty fights? I sure do. I don't remember Bart making any more mistakes than the rest of the team and I remember him blowing up guards left and right which is what I want from an ILB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC36 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Scott's role in this defense is not to make tackles. It is to take on blockers and free up Harris to make plays. He is fine with that and we should be too. He's pretty damn good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 You might want to watch bart's gameplay a little bit closer. Although his name isn't mentioned every play, he does a lot of the dirty work and frees up opportunities for the other players. I think Bart also brings a toughness and "swagger" to the team that would not be replaced easily. So another good player of the same physical stature wouldn't do the dirty work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno the Jet Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 If Josh Mauga and Satele, Bellore can make plays That is still a BIG IF. Non of these guys have seen any real time. You certainly cannot count Mauga getting one start in a meaningless preseason game. Let's not forget where Rex was the second free agency opened in his first year. Rex and Bart are a package deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 *Sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonFabinisBackhair Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I like Scott, but he's overrated. I think we could easily draft an even more consistent tackler to put next to Harris. In other words I'd like another Harris type player, one who leads by example and talks on the field. I know that all the "Bart is the qb of the defense" guys will pop up now on this thread, but I always think about what we could've had if Vilma and Harris were our two beasts in the middle. Bart's not a bad player, I just think he's Rex's buddy and attitude on the field. I'm always thinking of ways to better our defense, and honestly, if we had a younger tackling machine out there ala Harris wow we'd be even better. Yes I know Scott had 100 tckls last year and blah blah whatever...He just makes too many bone headed plays when his mouth gets in his way come playoff time. Vilma simply cannot be effective in the 3-4. The guy is a great MLB in a 4-3, but he cannot take on guards head to head like he would have to do consistently in the 3-4. Scott is a very good player and I actually think he is underrated by fans because fans just look at numbers. Actual players rave about him and they point to how well he sets up other players. Without Scott, Harris would not make as many plays as he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Yep. 20th defense in the league! Great job Vilma. He deserves as much credit as Brees! I don't remember Bart making any more mistakes than the rest of the team and I remember him blowing up guards left and right which is what I want from an ILB Yep! that 20th D in the league was better than anyone else come playoff time, making the great Manning look like a douche with 2 minutes left in the ball game. I think most of you guys just hate to admit we lost a great LB to the Saints and down graded with Scott. He misses tons of tackles where he overruns players and cant wrap them up, yet he "can't wait" to start a fight before the game starts every sunday...it just gets old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOP Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 So another good player of the same physical stature wouldn't do the dirty work? What bart does is not glamorous. It may be difficult to find someone a "BEAST" as you say that is willing to put his body on the line every play to have sombody else get the credit for the play. Bart is a very good and selfless player. I don't think he is so easy to upgrade as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bLguerriero1 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 i mean i wouldn't mind drafting some body because bart is gettin older... but i'm not gona spend a 1st or 2nd on like hightower... but depth and building depth is never a bad thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/13/bart-scott-the-art-of-linebacking-beyond-the-tackle/ Worth noting: Given the similar proportion of stops both players recorded in 2010, how do we explain Scott being our top graded ILB against the run in 2010? Our 3rd rated ILB overall, he leapfrogs Patrick Willis and Lawrence Timmons to the top of the pile when looking just at performance in the run game. Scott’s grade of +27.5 is some distance clear of the next best mark, the +20.1 that Timmons scored. Harris, despite a decent season by his standards, was 24th against the run, scoring +6.8 in that regard. It’s not necessarily the reckless abandon with which Scott takes on blockers, but the fact that he is regularly taking on – and beating – blockers at or around the line of scrimmage, something many linebackers can’t do. That’s something that won’t show up in stats, even advanced ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 the run defense isn't the problem !!!! how about drafting a real road grading RG with a brain ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Rex Ryan would not have brought Bart Scott over from the Ravens and helped convince Mike Tannenbaum to give him a large contract if he didn't understand the importance Bart has to this defense. Rex has had a top 5 defense everywhere he's gone, and Bart has been a big part of his success in Baltimore and here. If you trust Rex, you HAVE to like Bart. I'll leave it at that, because there really isn't anything else to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Bart Scott is a friggin' beast and is the BEST at what he does in the NFL. There really isn't another player like him. He does the job nobody wants to do better than anyone. I loved this guy when he played on the Ravens and the single biggest reason I was happy the Jets hired Rex was because I knew Bart Scott would be his first signing. I don't know where to begin describing how or how much worse the Jets defense would be if Vilma was futilely attempting to play Bart's role on this D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 No one was good in Mangini's. If Josh Mauga and Satele, Bellore can make plays for Rex bet your a$$ a probowler like Vilma could. He's just as big as those guys. Vilma was a very good player for us I actually hated losing him. The guys you list are probably all over 250 right now. They are UDFA backups. To my knowledge none has ever made a play for anybody in a game that counted. They still will better serve the purposes of this D. Vilma is a nice player that never fit the scheme and he would have to put on weight to match Maybin. The one place the Jets could improve at LB would be cover skills. Vilma was not a good cover guy, but he was probably better than what we have. Thing is, I don't see us getting a guy that can stop the run at the rate of the current guys AND cover. Yep! that 20th D in the league was better than anyone else come playoff time, making the great Manning look like a douche with 2 minutes left in the ball game. I think most of you guys just hate to admit we lost a great LB to the Saints and down graded with Scott. He misses tons of tackles where he overruns players and cant wrap them up, yet he "can't wait" to start a fight before the game starts every sunday...it just gets old. They are a team carried by the offense. That old **** Favre put up 28 on them before he did his annual fold job. They gave up over 400 yards twice and the Jets make Manning look more like a douche with Scott last year. I don't want to denigrate Vilma. I liked him. He is a good player, but he's far from the top ILB and he would be much worse on the defense than Scott or Harris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 No. Vilma helped a defense win a superbowl has Bart yet? No. Yeah, they definitely won that SB with defense . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Is there any chance we could make posters past some sort of test before they are allowed to start topics on the football forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattyandthejets Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 id rather have upgrades to calvin pace and bryan thomas first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/06/13/bart-scott-the-art-of-linebacking-beyond-the-tackle/ Worth noting: Given the similar proportion of stops both players recorded in 2010, how do we explain Scott being our top graded ILB against the run in 2010? Our 3rd rated ILB overall, he leapfrogs Patrick Willis and Lawrence Timmons to the top of the pile when looking just at performance in the run game. Scott’s grade of +27.5 is some distance clear of the next best mark, the +20.1 that Timmons scored. Harris, despite a decent season by his standards, was 24th against the run, scoring +6.8 in that regard. It’s not necessarily the reckless abandon with which Scott takes on blockers, but the fact that he is regularly taking on – and beating – blockers at or around the line of scrimmage, something many linebackers can’t do. That’s something that won’t show up in stats, even advanced ones. This this and more this. Dude is an absolute animal, does the dirty work, and produces. Very rare quality. You couldnt ask for a better ILB combo. Honestly, of all people to question its Bart Scott? Rex Ryan's guy. The dude that showed up on Barts door step and begged him to come to NY. Bart Scott has just as much to do with the change in mentality as Rex. He's talks the talk and walks the walk. We need to start looking to upgrade over Revis. He had zero INT's last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 No one was good in Mangini's. If Josh Mauga and Satele, Bellore can make plays for Rex bet your a$$ a probowler like Vilma could. He's just as big as those guys. Vilma was a very good player for us I actually hated losing him. Mauga, Satele and Bellore have not made "plays", unless you are combining them all into one stat producer and in preseason games to boot. This thread alone should have produced five bannings, it's so wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceman88 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Its been what four or five years and people are bringing up the Vilma argument again? Really?! HE SUCKED BALLS IN THE 3-4 HE IS TINY AND ALWAYS GAVE PLAYERS AN EXTRA FEW YARDS AS THEY DRAGGED HIM. He's a good 4-3 MLB but he's definitely not spectacular and if you are giving him the credit for the Saints success you are insane. The offense carried that entire team and the only reason the defense was serviceable to get them to a Superbowl was it created a ton of turnovers mainly due to Darren Sharper and the rest of the secondary taking advantage of Greg Williams blitzing the hell out of QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 While its probably true that a team can't win a Super Bowl without at least a halfway decent MLB/ILB, Vilma was certainly NOT the key cog in New Orleans' Super Bowl run. Drew Brees was. That's just like the 2006 Colts, who had a good but not great MLB in Gary Brackett. Brackett had 87 tackles in his 14 starts, and the Colts finished 23rd in the NFL points allowed per game. Luckily they had Peyton Manning. Vilma is an undersized MLB who would never make it in the 3-4. In fact, according to Football Outsiders, Vilma is most similar in production to Mike Peterson, who has played OLB the last 2 years in Atlanta! Football Outsiders also has some additional nuggets of insight when you compare Bart Scott to Vilma. First, against the run: YARDS PER PLAY ALLOWED VS. RUN Scott 2008: 2.7 2009: 3.2 2010: 2.5 Vilma 2008: 3.8 2009: 3.1 2010: 3.1 Bottom Line: When Scott makes his plays, they are much closer to the line of scrimmage. STOP RATE VS. RUN Scott 2008: 79 % 2009: 71 % 2010: 70 % Vilma 2008: 63 % 2009: 62 % 2010: 69 % Bottom Line: Scott makes plays against the run more often when given the opportunity. Now, you may say "but Vilma makes up for it in coverage", but in reality, that is FALSE. See below. YARDS PER PLAY ALLOWED VS. PASS Scott 2008: 5.3 2009: 4.4 2010: 3.9 Vilma 2008: 7.0 2009: 7.5 2010: 4.2 Bottom Line: While Vilma showed great improvement in coverage from '09-'10, Scott still outclasses him at a task more suitable for the supposedly more nimble Vilma. STOP RATE VS. PASS Scott 2008: 48 % 2009: 70 % 2010: 47 % Vilma 2008: 45 % 2009: 38 % 2010: 56 % Bottom Line: Vilma had a better campaign than Scott in 2010, but if the trends from '08 and '09 come back into play, then Scott should at least be even with Vilma in this category. Scott certainly has Vilma beat pretty handily in 3 of the 4 categories, and has a slight edge overall in the last one. Yes, they have different roles in their respective defenses, but these metrics look past this variable. Scott is better at his job than Vilma, and I'm sure he'll end up getting his own Super Bowl ring quite soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 This this and more this. Dude is an absolute animal, does the dirty work, and produces. Very rare quality. You couldnt ask for a better ILB combo. Conventional interweb adlibs aside, the guy really is elite by quantitative standards. Say what you want about efficiency stats, but LB's are probably the best position for their use considering that everyone knows pretty effing well that Poz and Jerod Mayo aren't the two best I/MLB's in the league. Scott is absolutely an incredible player. No ILB in the league is capable of doing what he does against the run (taking on 2-3 jobs on literally every play and doing it that well), and that's including Willis and Lewis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Conventional interweb adlibs aside, the guy really is elite by quantitative standards. Say what you want about efficiency stats, but LB's are probably the best position for their use considering that everyone knows pretty effing well that Poz and Jerod Mayo aren't the two best I/MLB's in the league. Scott is absolutely an incredible player. No ILB in the league is capable of doing what he does against the run (taking on 2-3 jobs on literally every play and doing it that well), and that's including Willis and Lewis. Beautifully put. I <3 that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Beautifully put. I <3 that guy. There's that too. Actually considering finally springing for an authentic for the first time in my life due to both factors. Throw in the fact that he spits maybe the best trash in the history of the game and to be honest they should just put him in the damn Ring of Honor while he's still a player. "We're good at our game. We can talk and play. I don't think they can." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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