stoicsentry Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 We're 4 games into the season and what has this guy done? Blocked a punt which went for a touchdown, forced an interception on defense, and set the record for longest Jets touchdown return on a kick. But... besides that? FIRE TANNY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNJet Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 We're 4 games into the season and what has this guy done? Blocked a punt which went for a touchdown, forced an interception on defense, and set the record for longest Jets touchdown return on a kick. But... besides that? FIRE TANNY! Lol, I agree, this guys a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 We're 4 games into the season and what has this guy done? Blocked a punt which went for a touchdown, forced an interception on defense, and set the record for longest Jets touchdown return on a kick. But... besides that? FIRE TANNY! He sees the field five snaps a game. This is not the player to hang your hat on. Brad Smith won games all by himself, was a 3rd/4th receiver, ran the Wildcat, returned kicks for touchdowns and had teams gameplanning against him. He plays for Buffalo now. Great job on McKnight. He's truly a big deal. And when did he force an interception? There's no such thing as a forced interception. the QB gets credited and the guy who picks it gets credited. Thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 He sees the field five snaps a game. This is not the player to hang your hat on. Brad Smith won games all by himself, was a 3rd/4th receiver, ran the Wildcat, returned kicks for touchdowns and had teams gameplanning against him. He plays for Buffalo now. Great job on McKnight. He's truly a big deal. And when did he force an interception? There's no such thing as a forced interception. the QB gets credited and the guy who picks it gets credited. Thats all. So you are hanging your hat on Brad Smith? I don't say this very often, but LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 So you are hanging your hat on Brad Smith? I don't say this very often, but LOL. Nope. not hanging my hat on anyone who plays in the margins. Revis and Harris are guys to hang your hat on. McKnight and Plaxico are not. That's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Nope. not hanging my hat on anyone who plays in the margins. Revis and Harris are guys to hang your hat on. McKnight and Plaxico are not. That's the point. Yes and they signed Revis and Harris. Long term. McKnight was a 4th round pick. Plaxico was a FA who didn't take a long term or huge deal to sign. What do they have to do with each other? How many ******* hats do you have to hang? The one place to be truly worried is at QB. The jury is still out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boy Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I think the last 4 drafts have been very sketchy. You can argue that we got MAYBE 3 good players in the last 4 drafts. Keller Conner Wilkerson (hopefully) pretty bad when you think about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I think the last 4 drafts have been very sketchy. You can argue that we got MAYBE 3 good players in the last 4 drafts. Keller Conner Wilkerson (hopefully) pretty bad when you think about it 09 - Sanchez, Keller, Greene, Slauson - all starters. 10 - Wilson, Vlad, McKnight, Connor - Wilson is playing outstanding, Vlad Sucks, McKnights is a ST ace, and Connor is a beast. 11 - Wilkerson, Ellis, Powell, Kerley, McKnight - obviously the jurys still out, but Wilkerson is really impressive and Kerley has been a very good punt returner who I think will be eventually be a solid slot WR. I think this board is a bunch of overreacting whiners. That talent is fine, the drafts have been fine. If the OL could block, this board would be talking SB still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 How are the rest of the picks from that draft doing? You know the ones we picked way ahead of Joe McKnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Boy Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 09 - Sanchez, Keller, Greene, Slauson - all starters. 10 - Wilson, Vlad, McKnight, Connor - Wilson is playing outstanding, Vlad Sucks, McKnights is a ST ace, and Connor is a beast. 11 - Wilkerson, Ellis, Powell, Kerley, McKnight - obviously the jurys still out, but Wilkerson is really impressive and Kerley has been a very good punt returner who I think will be eventually be a solid slot WR. I think this board is a bunch of overreacting whiners. That talent is fine, the drafts have been fine. If the OL could block, this board would be talking SB still. I'm whining? funny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 How are the rest of the picks from that draft doing? You know the ones we picked way ahead of Joe McKnight. 1 is playing lights out, the other is awful. It happens to every team in the league. The draft is a crap shoot. I'm whining? funny... No - I was just saying it in general. You forget how many overreacting knee jerk whiners post here after a long offseason and a 2-0 start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 He sees the field five snaps a game. This is not the player to hang your hat on. Brad Smith won games all by himself, was a 3rd/4th receiver, ran the Wildcat, returned kicks for touchdowns and had teams gameplanning against him. He plays for Buffalo now. Great job on McKnight. He's truly a big deal. And when did he force an interception? There's no such thing as a forced interception. the QB gets credited and the guy who picks it gets credited. Thats all. Dude, Brad Smith scored a grand total of 7 TDs in five years. He was a receiver? He caught four passes last season. That's not in one game. That's in the whole season. He had 38 carries in the wildcat, an average of 2.38 per game. Nobody gameplanned against Brad Smith. He was an extremely minor factor in the Jets success and has become the most overrated player in the NFL in one offseason. I've never seen so much handwringing over a guy who averages 1.4 TDs a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aten Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 09 - Sanchez, Keller, Greene, Slauson - all starters. 10 - Wilson, Vlad, McKnight, Connor - Wilson is playing outstanding, Vlad Sucks, McKnights is a ST ace, and Connor is a beast. 11 - Wilkerson, Ellis, Powell, Kerley, McKnight - obviously the jurys still out, but Wilkerson is really impressive and Kerley has been a very good punt returner who I think will be eventually be a solid slot WR. I think this board is a bunch of overreacting whiners. That talent is fine, the drafts have been fine. If the OL could block, this board would be talking SB still. Keller was 2008. Sanchez and Greene are both lousy. Helpful hint: watching a guy hold a clipboard or load a furniture truck doesn't tell you a whole lot about whether he can play football or not. Slauson was a good pick. Contrast that with Connor, which is a crappy pick. That's mah handpicked fullback in thar dur hur. Those two side by side are a perfect illustration of how to, and how not to, use late draft picks. You take the guy who has a 25% shot to be a mediocre starting offensive lineman over the guy who is certain to be an amazing fullback (and Conner ain't that anyway) every single time. The difference in dropoff between late picks and UDFA at the respective positions is astronomical. Vlad is obviously a disaster; score another one for football players play football. Wilson definitely looks better doing his job than he did last year, but it's not a great sign that his role isn't being expanded while Cromartie sucks it up on the outside and we're having such a hard time replacing Coleman and Ihedigbo that McKnight is getting looks as the rush DB. McKnight is a fine lottery ticket; he's obviously got the ability. Whether he pays off is going to depend on whether he can learn to pick up the blitz so he can be a real running back. If not he's going to continue to be the guy you try to get on the field when you're not busy doing more important stuff. Wilkerson seems fine, but I don't see much of a difference between how he's playing vs. Pitoitua and Dixon, neither of whom cost a first-round pick to acquire. Ellis is a planet theory monster and we're deep on the defensive line so he can have a redshirt year. The drafts haven't been fine. They've been horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 We are drafting like the Pats have the since around the Chad Jackson, Maroney years... Except we didn't precede the awful drafts with 3 rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 1 is playing lights out, the other is awful. It happens to every team in the league. The draft is a crap shoot. Even a blind, retarded capologist, can get lucky with those odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Keller was 2008. Sanchez and Greene are both lousy. Helpful hint: watching a guy hold a clipboard or load a furniture truck doesn't tell you a whole lot about whether he can play football or not. Slauson was a good pick. Contrast that with Connor, which is a crappy pick. That's mah handpicked fullback in thar dur hur. Those two side by side are a perfect illustration of how to, and how not to, use late draft picks. You take the guy who has a 25% shot to be a mediocre starting offensive lineman over the guy who is certain to be an amazing fullback (and Conner ain't that anyway) every single time. The difference in dropoff between late picks and UDFA at the respective positions is astronomical. Vlad is obviously a disaster; score another one for football players play football. Wilson definitely looks better doing his job than he did last year, but it's not a great sign that his role isn't being expanded while Cromartie sucks it up on the outside and we're having such a hard time replacing Coleman and Ihedigbo that McKnight is getting looks as the rush DB. McKnight is a fine lottery ticket; he's obviously got the ability. Whether he pays off is going to depend on whether he can learn to pick up the blitz so he can be a real running back. If not he's going to continue to be the guy you try to get on the field when you're not busy doing more important stuff. Wilkerson seems fine, but I don't see much of a difference between how he's playing vs. Pitoitua and Dixon, neither of whom cost a first-round pick to acquire. Ellis is a planet theory monster and we're deep on the defensive line so he can have a redshirt year. The drafts haven't been fine. They've been horrible. Forgot Keller was the year before. Still 3 starters out of 1 draft with only 3 picks. Sounds pretty good to me. Nobody was complaining about Greene when he was carrying our offense through the playoffs and sleeping on a Football in NE's endzone. The talent level on this team is fine and the drafts have been fine. No team in the league gets every pick right. In fact, most are lucky to get 2 good players out of the draft every year. I see a lot of talent on that list of drafted players...and if the OL is blocking, we're probably not questioning any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Forgot Keller was the year before. Still 3 starters out of 1 draft with only 3 picks. Sounds pretty good to me. Nobody was complaining about Greene when he was carrying our offense through the playoffs and sleeping on a Football in NE's endzone. The talent level on this team is fine and the drafts have been fine. No team in the league gets every pick right. In fact, most are lucky to get 2 good players out of the draft every year. I see a lot of talent on that list of drafted players...and if the OL is blocking, we're probably not questioning any of it. That wasn't 3 starters out of 3 picks. Greene was 3 picks by himself (3rd, 4th, 7th), Sanchez was 2 picks by himself (1st and 2nd, plus other players), and so was Keller (high 2nd plus a 4th I think it was). Total = a 1st, two 2nd's, a 3rd, two 4th's, and a 7th. That's 7 picks, not 3. When you're assessing the value of the pick due to that pick becoming a starter, you must take into account who that pick beat out in the first place. Sanchez beat out Kellen Clemens. Keller beat out Chris Baker. Greene beat out nobody, since he was a backup for 2 years and then was handed the job this year because the alternatives were LT a year older, McKnight with a sharply-abbreviated camp after a season in the doghouse, and Powell who never even saw the play book until a month before the season started. All 3 beat out players who have (or had) no chance of starting for any other team. For the record, I like Keller and Greene, and my luke-warm feelings about Sanchez have gotten cooler this year. But consider who these 3 beat out for their starting jobs before declaring what overwhelming successes they were as draft picks. Because a QB like Joey Harrington was an uncontested starter for years yet no one considers that a good pick for Detroit in hindsight even though he beat out Mike McMahon for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Wilson definitely looks better doing his job than he did last year, but it's not a great sign that his role isn't being expanded while Cromartie sucks it up on the outside and we're having such a hard time replacing Coleman and Ihedigbo that McKnight is getting looks as the rush DB. This. I like Wilson. But I just can't commend them for using up a 1st rounder on a guy that thus far is looking like nothing more than a good nickel back. The Gholston/Sanchez/Wilson drafts are looking like disasters considering the best players to come out of them are Keller, McKnight and Slauson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 That wasn't 3 starters out of 3 picks. Greene was 3 picks by himself (3rd, 4th, 7th), Sanchez was 2 picks by himself (1st and 2nd, plus other players), and so was Keller (high 2nd plus a 4th I think it was). Total = a 1st, two 2nd's, a 3rd, two 4th's, and a 7th. That's 7 picks, not 3. When you're assessing the value of the pick due to that pick becoming a starter, you must take into account who that pick beat out in the first place. Sanchez beat out Kellen Clemens. Keller beat out Chris Baker. Greene beat out nobody, since he was a backup for 2 years and then was handed the job this year because the alternatives were LT a year older, McKnight with a sharply-abbreviated camp after a season in the doghouse, and Powell who never even saw the play book until a month before the season started. All 3 beat out players who have (or had) no chance of starting for any other team. For the record, I like Keller and Greene, and my luke-warm feelings about Sanchez have gotten cooler this year. But consider who these 3 beat out for their starting jobs before declaring what overwhelming successes they were as draft picks. Because a QB like Joey Harrington was an uncontested starter for years yet no one considers that a good pick for Detroit in hindsight even though he beat out Mike McMahon for the job. Wow...now these guys are equivalent to a Joey Harrington pick? Holy jeezus, this place has gone mental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Wow...now these guys are equivalent to a Joey Harrington pick? Holy jeezus, this place has gone mental. Awwww boooo. Bad form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirlancemehlot Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Keller was 2008. Sanchez and Greene are both lousy. Helpful hint: watching a guy hold a clipboard or load a furniture truck doesn't tell you a whole lot about whether he can play football or not. Slauson was a good pick. Contrast that with Connor, which is a crappy pick. That's mah handpicked fullback in thar dur hur. Those two side by side are a perfect illustration of how to, and how not to, use late draft picks. You take the guy who has a 25% shot to be a mediocre starting offensive lineman over the guy who is certain to be an amazing fullback (and Conner ain't that anyway) every single time. The difference in dropoff between late picks and UDFA at the respective positions is astronomical. Vlad is obviously a disaster; score another one for football players play football. Wilson definitely looks better doing his job than he did last year, but it's not a great sign that his role isn't being expanded while Cromartie sucks it up on the outside and we're having such a hard time replacing Coleman and Ihedigbo that McKnight is getting looks as the rush DB. McKnight is a fine lottery ticket; he's obviously got the ability. Whether he pays off is going to depend on whether he can learn to pick up the blitz so he can be a real running back. If not he's going to continue to be the guy you try to get on the field when you're not busy doing more important stuff. Wilkerson seems fine, but I don't see much of a difference between how he's playing vs. Pitoitua and Dixon, neither of whom cost a first-round pick to acquire. Ellis is a planet theory monster and we're deep on the defensive line so he can have a redshirt year. The drafts haven't been fine. They've been horrible. Excellent post. See...you put thought and analysis into an opinion and then you argue its merit. So much better than the folks who just knock down every opinion that upsets their sense of well-being. To add to what Sperm said (or perhaps just highlight one of his points), it's not just the value of the players you pick and how thay pan out that makes a GM. It's the players he doesn't pick as well. 7 picks for Greene Sanchez and Keller is a very steep price. Considering Josh Freeman was picked at 17 (our original draft slot), and got a player of only equal or lesser value while losing a second round pick, you've got look very hard at the value of not only sanchez, but of the player that never was in that second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Connor has been a huge disappointment to me -- the "Terminator", give me an effin' break. Rex's hand-picked FB. One thing is abundantly clear, Rex is no Parcells. No way in hell should he be allowed to shop for the groceries. I am beginning to wonder if he even has the capacity to get the dish right. I swear he is the poster child for the Peter Principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Contrast that with Connor, which is a crappy pick. That's mah handpicked fullback in thar dur hur. The ironic thing is that everyone hated Mangini for overestimating his own brilliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Wow...now these guys are equivalent to a Joey Harrington pick? Holy jeezus, this place has gone mental. Harrington didn't have nearly the advantages that have been afforded to Sanchez. What do you think Sanchez's career would look like 2-3 years into it if his career began with the 2002 Lions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Keller was 2008. Sanchez and Greene are both lousy. Helpful hint: watching a guy hold a clipboard or load a furniture truck doesn't tell you a whole lot about whether he can play football or not. Slauson was a good pick. Contrast that with Connor, which is a crappy pick. That's mah handpicked fullback in thar dur hur. Those two side by side are a perfect illustration of how to, and how not to, use late draft picks. You take the guy who has a 25% shot to be a mediocre starting offensive lineman over the guy who is certain to be an amazing fullback (and Conner ain't that anyway) every single time. The difference in dropoff between late picks and UDFA at the respective positions is astronomical. Vlad is obviously a disaster; score another one for football players play football. Wilson definitely looks better doing his job than he did last year, but it's not a great sign that his role isn't being expanded while Cromartie sucks it up on the outside and we're having such a hard time replacing Coleman and Ihedigbo that McKnight is getting looks as the rush DB. McKnight is a fine lottery ticket; he's obviously got the ability. Whether he pays off is going to depend on whether he can learn to pick up the blitz so he can be a real running back. If not he's going to continue to be the guy you try to get on the field when you're not busy doing more important stuff. Wilkerson seems fine, but I don't see much of a difference between how he's playing vs. Pitoitua and Dixon, neither of whom cost a first-round pick to acquire. Ellis is a planet theory monster and we're deep on the defensive line so he can have a redshirt year. The drafts haven't been fine. They've been horrible. Wow that Conner line made me laugh. I have to say that the quality of the draft has fallen off since Rex came in. He's alot more into tools, upside, youth(?) and physical prowess than Mangini was, so I think his drafts might take a little longer to bear out and are a little less safe. I think he brought an attempt to imitate what Newsome does in Baltimore, which is stack high end athletes and let the coaches and veteran players push the maturation process. I'm not sure how much I agree with it...there's positives with drafting like that...it's a more long term way of drafting IMO, and this franchises (aka the QB) best days are ahead (hopefully). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CobraVerde Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I think he needs more playing time. Greene has been doing absolutely nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Harrington didn't have nearly the advantages that have been afforded to Sanchez. What do you think Sanchez's career would look like 2-3 years into it if his career began with the 2002 Lions? I knew who the primary RB was, but this post just made me look up the receivers. Az Hakim and Bill Schroeder? Oof. That was Millen's offseason of "hey, these guys were decent 3rd/4th options on their old teams, so let me sign them to be starters". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Excellent post. See...you put thought and analysis into an opinion and then you argue its merit. So much better than the folks who just knock down every opinion that upsets their sense of well-being. To add to what Sperm said (or perhaps just highlight one of his points), it's not just the value of the players you pick and how thay pan out that makes a GM. It's the players he doesn't pick as well. 7 picks for Greene Sanchez and Keller is a very steep price. Considering Josh Freeman was picked at 17 (our original draft slot), and got a player of only equal or lesser value while losing a second round pick, you've got look very hard at the value of not only sanchez, but of the player that never was in that second round. If thats the case, then the entire league sucks at drafting. Harrington didn't have nearly the advantages that have been afforded to Sanchez. What do you think Sanchez's career would look like 2-3 years into it if his career began with the 2002 Lions? Dont know, dont care...its seemed like you painting all the draft picks with that brush. Dont think too many Qbs would have seen success on those Lions teams so I dont see the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 At least Harrington could play the piano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aten Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 If thats the case, then the entire league sucks at drafting. Just one concrete example, then. What team has done less in the draft over the past four years than we have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Just one concrete example, then. What team has done less in the draft over the past four years than we have? The Vikings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 09 - Sanchez, Keller, Greene, Slauson - all starters. 10 - Wilson, Vlad, McKnight, Connor - Wilson is playing outstanding, Vlad Sucks, McKnights is a ST ace, and Connor is a beast. 11 - Wilkerson, Ellis, Powell, Kerley, McKnight - obviously the jurys still out, but Wilkerson is really impressive and Kerley has been a very good punt returner who I think will be eventually be a solid slot WR. I think this board is a bunch of overreacting whiners. That talent is fine, the drafts have been fine. If the OL could block, this board would be talking SB still. Exactly why is Connor a beast ? Seriously why ? because the Defensive coordinator (rex) says so ? I think I heard his name mentioned once on a good block . Used to hear Richardsons name constantly. This was a huge drop off in both talent and Knowledge. But hey Rex drafted him so its up to the offense to coach him up which means disaster. One Day Rex will learn just because a FB can hit does not necessarily make him a good fullback. Brad Smith was a ST ace too but I believe he was bitched out because he didnt do well at WR when in fact he was barely ever targeted. But at least he produced from the wildcat Joe McKnight never sees the field on offense cant say I blame him for that though. All we heard in camp was Kerley this and Kerley that well where the **** is Kerly ?? Other than one put return that you could have driven a mack truck through the kid never even sees the field. Powell ? Who the **** is that ? When it comes to Powell Kerley and McKnight we will never see what these kids are about until we get Shotty the **** off this team personally I think Powell has the most upside but hes never active. Rex took over a solid football team with a great core and added Bart Scott and Jim Leonhard and those 2 addisitons made us into a playoff caliber team that now seems to be heading in the wrong direction because we left money on the freakin table that should have been spent solidifying the O-Line Depth Just like the Ravens did with 2 cap casualty signings. Sorry but you do not leave money unspent when your in the running for a SB.... YOU JUST DONT. Especially when you see weaknesses in preseason like we all saw with our O-Line Depth So while some may praise Tanny for his math skills he has failed misearbly when it counted . Just like some players cant perform come playoff time Tanny has failed when he should have been securing a SB contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Just one concrete example, then. What team has done less in the draft over the past four years than we have? I'd say Indy and Jax off the top of my head. Even though I'll always heart Tiquon. Regardless, it's pathetic that we'd even be considered with that. Blech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 The ironic thing is that everyone hated Mangini for overestimating his own brilliance. Anthony Schlegel kills wild boar with his bare hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Anthony Schlegel kills wild boar with his bare hands. And John Conner is The Terminator! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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