Cimini: Significant Drop in Jets OL Play

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Study: Significant drop in Jets' OL play

February, 27, 2012

Feb 27

10:58

AM ET

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By Rich Cimini

In 2009 and 2010, the Jets owned the top-rated offensive line in the NFL, based on the in-depth evaluations of Pro Football Focus, a stats-based web site.

In 2011, the once-formidable line dropped all the way to ... 12th. In the grand scheme, that isn't all that bad, it just seemed worse at the time because the Jets had raised the standard so high.

Obviously, this is highly subjective, but PFF rated the Jets' line 14th in run blocking, 14th in pass blocking and 11th in penalties. C Nick Mangold graded out the best, RT Wayne Hunter graded out the worst.

Interesting side note: The Giants won the Super Bowl with the 31st-rated line, overcoming the deficiency because of Eli Manning and his uncanny ability to play pitch-and-catch with his outside playmakers, Hakeem Nicks and Victor Cruz. Obviously, this was an exception to the rule; teams with bad O-lines usually stink.

The Jets' line struggles had a major impact on QB Mark Sanchez, who took an inordinate amount of hits and didn't handle the pressure well. Under pressure, he completed only 36.1 percent of his passes, with only three touchdowns and an awful 37.4 passer rating, per PFF.

Clearly, fixing the line is one of the top off-season priorities, but how? Hunter's $2.45 million salary is guaranteed, so it looks like he'll be back. No doubt, the stubborn Jets will give disappointing former No. 2 pick Vladimir Ducasse another chance to win a starting job, probably at right tackle. LG Matt Slauson is coming off major shoulder surgery, so his spot could be in jeopardy. There could be opportunities to use their first-round pick (16th overall) on an O-lineman.

With Mangold, RG Brandon Moore and LT D'Brickashaw Ferguson still in place, the Jets have a solid foundation. If they can find a right tackle that can pass block, they should be able to regain their reputation as a strength, not a weakness.

[faba]

I have no idea how they came up with those rankings but on the whole we did not run block well and pass protection broke down multiple times when we needed to pass. For the run we did not move that line of scrimmage often at all

[JerryK]

I've always said the OL was the entire problem...but I've grown.

Now that I see the OL rankings of SB teams like the Giants, there's probably reason to be concerned about Sanchez. I'm not saying he's bad, I'm only saying that in this league, he had enough help in '09 and '10 to accomplish more than he did.

[CrazyCarl40]

Why would Slauson's spot be in jeopardy? People have surgery all the time. What a hack.

[SenorGato]

I feel like that article is a repost. Cimini clearly likes his message boards. Hello!

[JustInFudge]

The Jets' line struggles had a major impact on QB Mark Sanchez, who took an inordinate amount of hits and didn't handle the pressure well. Under pressure, he completed only 36.1 percent of his passes, with only three touchdowns and an awful 37.4 passer rating, per PFF.

Somebody shoot me. Gawd this kid is pathetic.

[dbatesman]

The Jets' line struggles had a major impact on QB Mark Sanchez, who took an inordinate amount of hits and didn't handle the pressure well. Under pressure, he completed only 36.1 percent of his passes, with only three touchdowns and an awful 37.4 passer rating, per PFF.

It's closer to the truth to say that Mark Sanchez had a major impact on the Jets' line struggles, seeing as he's displayed no ability to read a blitz, sense pressure, or keep his pants dry in the face of a rush. This would be a lot less frustrating if Cimini hadn't recognized the QB's importance to pass-pro vis-a-vis Eli literally one paragraph earlier.

[Sharrow]

Wait, you mean the offensive line wasn't as good this year and Hunter sucked? Who could have known.

[Scott Dierking]

I believe the Jets finished tied for the worst yard per rush average in the league.

[Larz]

we all know this is all sanchez' fault. he can't block anybody

[stoicsentry]

I believe the Jets finished tied for the worst yard per rush average in the league.

How is none of that on Shonn Greene? I don't get it.

Also how is Cimini going to say that Slauson's position is up for grabs? Nonsense.

[Sperm Edwards]

I believe the Jets finished tied for the worst yard per rush average in the league.

Nope. Worst in the league was 3.5 ypc. The team with that distinction ended up winning the superbowl.

How is none of that on Shonn Greene? I don't get it.

Greene averaged 4.2ypc last year. Nothing to get excited over, but the fact remains that Curtis Martin only managed to top that 2x in 11 seasons. Just sayin'.

[jason423]

Nope. Worst in the league was 3.5 ypc. The team with that distinction ended up winning the superbowl.

Greene averaged 4.2ypc last year. Nothing to get excited over, but the fact remains that Curtis Martin only managed to top that 2x in 11 seasons. Just sayin'.

Its only because the Jets played a pretty blah defensive schedule. Their actual YPA was 11.6% below the expected yardage. That was 4th worst in the NFL. The Giants were a -19.9%, Packers at -12.5%, and Chiefs at -11.9%. They were the 4th worst big play team in the NFL as well with a whopping 40% less than expected 20 yard runs on the year. The Giants, Patriots, and Bengals were the only teams worse. The last time the Jets were this bad in the run game was 2006. Thats on both the line and the backs the Jets have on the team.

[stoicsentry]

Nope. Worst in the league was 3.5 ypc. The team with that distinction ended up winning the superbowl.

Greene averaged 4.2ypc last year. Nothing to get excited over, but the fact remains that Curtis Martin only managed to top that 2x in 11 seasons. Just sayin'.

Yeah, I dunno, I'm surprised it's even that high but that puts him about 30th in the league in ypc. Definitely not what you want especially on a team that's supposed to emphasize the run. I guess he's a decent 1A back in a system that would split carries 50/50.

[Sperm Edwards]

Its only because the Jets played a pretty blah defensive schedule. Their actual YPA was 11.6% below the expected yardage. That was 4th worst in the NFL. The Giants were a -19.9%, Packers at -12.5%, and Chiefs at -11.9%. They were the 4th worst big play team in the NFL as well with a whopping 40% less than expected 20 yard runs on the year. The Giants, Patriots, and Bengals were the only teams worse. The last time the Jets were this bad in the run game was 2006. Thats on both the line and the backs the Jets have on the team.

Greene is not a breakaway RB. Everyone knows that. He's not Adrian Peterson. Everyone knows that, too.

Plus where does the expected 20 yard runs come from? Expected based on the opponent? There are many factors that go into any given run. He doesn't make a ton of yards that we thought weren't there. Maybe an extra yard or so more since he can carry people a bit with power. But he's a north-south runner with power rather than speed and quick cutting on a dime.

Basically he is what he is. I wouldn't call Jerome Bettis's career a failure and he had a pretty good one being just that type of RB. They don't generate that extra 15+ yards now & then, but when the whole play is stuffed they get an extra yard or 2 by brute power. IMO a team needs both types and they only had one and tried to use him as a do-all type of runner because no one else was up to the task either.

Yeah, I dunno, I'm surprised it's even that high but that puts him about 30th in the league in ypc. Definitely not what you want especially on a team that's supposed to emphasize the run. I guess he's a decent 1A back in a system that would split carries 50/50.

All RB's, to a large extent, are slaves to the effectiveness of the blocking in front of them. If I saw Greene get 4.2ypc and someone else on the team get 5.6ypc then I'd be on the "he sucks" bandwagon a whole lot more, because that means the blockers are generally doing their job. As it was, he was - by a significant margin - the team ypc leader and he was used on all of the team's short-yardage carries which lowers that number even when the play is a success.

To me, players like Thomas Jones were the kings of adding absolutely zero that the blocking didn't provide for him. No speed, no (running) power, no elusive ability, nothing. His first year after the Jets made the supposedly big mistake by letting him go, he had a teammate average nearly 3 ypc MORE than Jones did. Same team, same opponents, same OL, Did Jones suddenly get better from 2007 to 2008, stay good from 2008 to 2009, then suddenly get much, much worse again in 2010? Of course not.

What amazes me is that if Greene was given 50-60 more rushing attempts, showing no more on those carries than on the first 250, he'd have finished with 1200-1300 yards and people would be sucking his dick like they did with Martin for all those years. The difference is that he doesn't make a dent in the salary cap the way a Jones or a Martin did.

If someone performs mediocre and they get paid little, we should be happy. If Greene is performing at this level and the Jets give him a big whopper of an extension I will start despising his play. And it's right. If you're going to get paid like a top talent you should perform like one who doesn't rely on his OL to make the RB.

Greene, to my eyes, was worse than he was in his first 2 seasons. He just looked slower, and he was never fast to begin with. Now maybe he can't handle 15+ carries per game unless it turns him from unleashing a burst of power into a plodding nothing-special type. If that's the case, which I think is so, then he needs a complementary back. That doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water. He has a good use and having him try to turn the corner kicking it outside isn't it. And there aren't too many backs, including the elite of the elite, that are going to be successful when (in several games) 80% of the first down plays were running up the gut behind a QB who rarely completes passes of more than 10 yards (or even comes close) in the first place.

[jason423]

Greene is not a breakaway RB. Everyone knows that. He's not Adrian Peterson. Everyone knows that, too.

Plus where does the expected 20 yard runs come from? Expected based on the opponent? There are many factors that go into any given run. He doesn't make a ton of yards that we thought weren't there. Maybe an extra yard or so more since he can carry people a bit with power. But he's a north-south runner with power rather than speed and quick cutting on a dime.

Basically he is what he is. I wouldn't call Jerome Bettis's career a failure and he had a pretty good one being just that type of RB. They don't generate that extra 15+ yards now & then, but when the whole play is stuffed they get an extra yard or 2 by brute power. IMO a team needs both types and they only had one and tried to use him as a do-all type of runner because no one else was up to the task either.

Yup based on opponent. The Jets opponents this year gave up .027 runs of 20 or more yards per attempt this season in games not against the Jets. The Jets averaged about 0.016. League average was right around the 0.027 mark. For Greene it was actually an improvement over 2010 where he was pretty much in the doghouse. Only 0.5% of his attempts went for 20 or more in 2010 compared to 1.56% this past year. his huge year was as a rookie where it was 4.6%, which is Peterson type numbers, though a small sampling. LT averaged 2.3% in 2010 and 1.3% in 2011.

That line was just gold in 2008 and 2009. Jones was a career 1.6% per attempt 20 yard runner. In those 2 beefed up line years he was 2.2%. In the 40+ category he went from 0.3% to 0.48%, which is an incredible jump. I think thats basically the boosts you can get from a line. Curtis was around 2% in his time with the Jets in the 20+ category.

[KINGDIRK]

Wonder how Eli or any other top QB would have done with this line. Im guessing a whole lot better than Sanchez.

[Sperm Edwards]

Yup based on opponent. The Jets opponents this year gave up .027 runs of 20 or more yards per attempt this season in games not against the Jets. The Jets averaged about 0.016. League average was right around the 0.027 mark. For Greene it was actually an improvement over 2010 where he was pretty much in the doghouse. Only 0.5% of his attempts went for 20 or more in 2010 compared to 1.56% this past year. his huge year was as a rookie where it was 4.6%, which is Peterson type numbers, though a small sampling. LT averaged 2.3% in 2010 and 1.3% in 2011.

That line was just gold in 2008 and 2009. Jones was a career 1.6% per attempt 20 yard runner. In those 2 beefed up line years he was 2.2%. In the 40+ category he went from 0.3% to 0.48%, which is an incredible jump. I think thats basically the boosts you can get from a line. Curtis was around 2% in his time with the Jets in the 20+ category.

But that's not his game. He's not a breakaway or elusive runner. His game - at least in theory - is that he doesn't lose yards, and runs through tackles that would stop smaller, less powerful backs. Like a Bam Morris type. A type that won't get you any 50 yard TD runs but he'll (just about) always get you 3 even when the play is snuffed out. At the same time, he gets almost no 3rd & long draw plays to inflate that ypc since he's usually not the back who's on the field. Same with Jones who came out for Leon once the team became confident enough in LW's blocking ability.

I don't know how many 20 yard runs other backs get when such a disproportionate amount of Greene's carries are the same play (right up the gut) on the same down & distance to go. Off the top of my head that sort of play doesn't lend itself to long runs.

He really should be paired with another back. Not just for season-long wear but for in-game. Also someone to give the defense a little different back to have to prepare for. With his lost speed, LT didn't provide that despite the rare occasion where he made a hard cut that reminded us of what he once was.

[stoicsentry]

Greene is not a breakaway RB. Everyone knows that. He's not Adrian Peterson. Everyone knows that, too.

Plus where does the expected 20 yard runs come from? Expected based on the opponent? There are many factors that go into any given run. He doesn't make a ton of yards that we thought weren't there. Maybe an extra yard or so more since he can carry people a bit with power. But he's a north-south runner with power rather than speed and quick cutting on a dime.

Basically he is what he is. I wouldn't call Jerome Bettis's career a failure and he had a pretty good one being just that type of RB. They don't generate that extra 15+ yards now & then, but when the whole play is stuffed they get an extra yard or 2 by brute power. IMO a team needs both types and they only had one and tried to use him as a do-all type of runner because no one else was up to the task either.

That's what I'm saying. Unless you have a franchise guy like Rice, MJD, Peterson, etc.

All RB's, to a large extent, are slaves to the effectiveness of the blocking in front of them. If I saw Greene get 4.2ypc and someone else on the team get 5.6ypc then I'd be on the "he sucks" bandwagon a whole lot more, because that means the blockers are generally doing their job. As it was, he was - by a significant margin - the team ypc leader and he was used on all of the team's short-yardage carries which lowers that number even when the play is a success.

To me, players like Thomas Jones were the kings of adding absolutely zero that the blocking didn't provide for him. No speed, no (running) power, no elusive ability, nothing. His first year after the Jets made the supposedly big mistake by letting him go, he had a teammate average nearly 3 ypc MORE than Jones did. Same team, same opponents, same OL, Did Jones suddenly get better from 2007 to 2008, stay good from 2008 to 2009, then suddenly get much, much worse again in 2010? Of course not.

What amazes me is that if Greene was given 50-60 more rushing attempts, showing no more on those carries than on the first 250, he'd have finished with 1200-1300 yards and people would be sucking his dick like they did with Martin for all those years. The difference is that he doesn't make a dent in the salary cap the way a Jones or a Martin did.

If someone performs mediocre and they get paid little, we should be happy. If Greene is performing at this level and the Jets give him a big whopper of an extension I will start despising his play. And it's right. If you're going to get paid like a top talent you should perform like one who doesn't rely on his OL to make the RB.

Greene, to my eyes, was worse than he was in his first 2 seasons. He just looked slower, and he was never fast to begin with. Now maybe he can't handle 15+ carries per game unless it turns him from unleashing a burst of power into a plodding nothing-special type. If that's the case, which I think is so, then he needs a complementary back. That doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bath water. He has a good use and having him try to turn the corner kicking it outside isn't it. And there aren't too many backs, including the elite of the elite, that are going to be successful when (in several games) 80% of the first down plays were running up the gut behind a QB who rarely completes passes of more than 10 yards (or even comes close) in the first place.

I'm hardly dissing Greene in comparison to Jones. That said I think you too easily dismiss what Jones did offer. A whopping 331 carries in 2009 is an accomplishment in and of itself, coming off a 290 carry year. That's not to mention, in those 600+ carries and 27 touchdowns over those 2 years, he only lost 1 fumble. That's pretty incredible.

Anyway, we do need a homerun threat at running back to compliment Greene.

[Sperm Edwards]

That's what I'm saying. Unless you have a franchise guy like Rice, MJD, Peterson, etc.

I'm hardly dissing Greene in comparison to Jones. That said I think you too easily dismiss what Jones did offer. A whopping 331 carries in 2009 is an accomplishment in and of itself, coming off a 290 carry year. That's not to mention, in those 600+ carries and 27 touchdowns over those 2 years, he only lost 1 fumble. That's pretty incredible.

Anyway, we do need a homerun threat at running back to compliment Greene.

Greene lost zero fumbles last season. Zero.

I think that many carries is impressive from a physical standpoint, but who needs a ridiculous amount of ordinary? If he was tearing the league a new one due to his particular skill, which he certainly did not, then all those carries are more important. He was an average to below average runner with an elite threshold for pain and avoid injury. One of the reasons for all that longevity is he was a soft runner. The Dancing Bear didn't take the ball and ram his head into the line to get every inch he could get out of the carry. It's why he got stuffed (or at least it seemed to me anyway) so much more easily on broken plays despite a far better performing OL.

2009 Jones had 12 of 19 games under 4 ypc. 7 of them under 3.5. He averaged 7 ypc against the Bills and 3.79ypc against everyone else. So the notion that his average game (or average gain) was the 4.24 ypc his season total would indicate is ridiculous. Our OL manhandled Buffalo's OL like they were small children and he was the main beneficiary.

2008 most of Jones' games he again was under 4 ypc despite a season total of over 4.5. Why? He had stupid-high ypc numbers for the season against Denver (30th in ypc surrendered), Oak (27th), and StL (29th). Against teams even in the top half of the league in that category - again, with a premiere OL - it was 4.1, 3.7, 2.6, 3.8, 3.5, 5.6, 3.9.

Lastly, with Jones, what I remember is very often even in his only so-so games he'd have one 15-20 yard run and that would account for 1/3 of his yards for the day. Sadly, that 1 run only helps on 1 play and while it is not to be dismissed, it doesn't help on the other 95% of his runs where he was usually dogsh*t. Remember when we couldn't do a damned thing on the ground with Jones? Here are his long runs: 5 yards on a 3rd & 16 draw (totally useless) , 6 yards on 1st & 10 with the Jets running out the clock for the half from our own 20 (even more useless), and 12 yards to start a drive in the 3rd quarter. Now if he gained 42 yards on 16 carries, that means - in his biggest game of his Jets career - we gained 19 yards on his remaining 13 carries. Which is why our memory of that game was him getting stuffed pretty much every single time and not even as good as his embarrassing 2.5ypc would indicate.

That is my game-after-game memory of Thomas Jones as a runner. One or two good gains through gaping holes the OL creates, which every RB who got cut in training camp would gain yards through, and the rest of the time he was Cedric Houston. But hey, he "just got it done" or so I'm told.

Greene doesn't make my heart go pitter-pat. But I have a lot more confidence in him getting that 1 needed yard than his predecessor or the guy so many think was the cat's meow of Jets RB's. I totally agree with you he needs a speed complement because the team needs some speed from the position. A runner like Greene has his uses but the team can't repeatedly have its big gain on the ground be 9 yards after busting through the middle of the line. It's a good run, but it's still only 9 yards.