SMC Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 You guys want a nice hypothetical? If McCourty doesn't fumble which led to Jets taking 3 pt lead, does anyone here have faith that the Rex D wouldve stop Brady before he led them on a gamewinning FG at end of regulation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 With the game on the line, Brady led the Pats to a FG to tie the game, then a FG to take the lead in OT. With a chance to put us in the end zone in his last possession of the 4th quarter, the Sanchez-led offense lost 4 yards and settled for 3. In OT, Sanchez, holding the ball like a loaf of bread, allowed not only a crippling sack but lost the football, and the game. He also had two other turnovers, one on one of the worst INT's ever and the other on a poor handoff that resulted in Sanchez going all Lionel Messi on us for the safety. In what universe did Sanchez outplay Brady with these facts in mind? Not to mention that even though the Jets defense isn't great, everyone would take it over the Pats. Sanchez threw a bunch of long completions, yes, but the Pats defense leads the league in that. He still made too many costly mistakes and didn't play well enough to win on what people are calling a "good" day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Not to mention that even though the Jets defense isn't great, everyone would take it over the Pats. Sanchez threw a bunch of long completions, yes, but the Pats defense leads the league in that. He still made too many costly mistakes and didn't play well enough to win on what people are calling a "good" day. I would call it a mediocre day. It wouldve been good without the TOs. So that makes 4 horrible games, 2 good games, and 1 mediocre game in the first 7. If he is good against the Fins, that would be 4-3-1 to start the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 This is great, I love it! Using your logic, no, it's not possible. You want to give Sanchez zero credit for the points the Jets put on the board, and give him all the blame for those 9 points. Who said I'm giving him zero credit for the Jets points? He deserves a share of the credit for those points, as do all of the other players involved in those drives and scoring plays. Yet that doesn't change the fact that he is solely responsible for a major point swing in a game which the Jets lost by a much smaller margin than that. I give him all the blame for those 9 points because he deserves all of the blame. Can you dispute that? If so, go right ahead. Using this isolation logic is awesome to prove your agenda, nice work. It's this type of mentality that is absolutely a joke on this board. What agenda? Please, I would love for you to let me know what you have decided my opinion apparently is. As I'm sure many around here can verify, I kept my faith in Sanchez and defended him for quite a while, longer than I really should have. It's been four years, and enough is enough. I'm just calling them like I see them. Sanchez makes horrendous mistakes, time and time again, AND it is far too late in his career to be making so many bad mistakes, but to take it to the levels posters here do is ridiculous! To completely ignore anything positive he does is laughable. Who is ignoring anything? Are you suggesting that any time a person criticizes a player, they must list every single good thing they have ever done before in their career? You can find positives about every player in the NFL, otherwise they wouldn't be there, but that doesn't suddenly make them any good. As you said yourself, his mistakes are horrendous and he's run out of time for that to be acceptable anymore. The point was simple, regardless of the positives that he did, the mistakes he made, which were 100% his fault, accounted for far more points than the Patriots margin of victory. I'm sorry if that bothers you so much, but it's the truth. I have not seen one person who is defending Sanchez say he was great, or flawless, almost everyone has said he made some bad costly mistakes. You and your band of pitchfork slinging haters want to ignore anything good he ever does, and isolate 2-3 plays per game, as if no other QB has these types of plays. Yet I am unwilling to bend on my points, the irony is oozing. You really just proved my point with this post. Nothing you said gave any sort of support as to why Sanchez's play is at all acceptable for an NFL QB. Instead it's just a list of excuses. The best part is there's no longer any excuses you people can come up with to defend Sanchez anymore, now it's simply why nobody is allowed to criticize Sanchez, just because not every single throw of his entire NFL career has been completely awful. Of course other QBs make those type of plays, what good QBs do not do is make these plays each and every game with such consistency and ultimately play a large part in costing their team the game in the process. They also don't make those plays in the same games that are labeled as amongst their best of the season while their team lost. That alone should tell you all you need to know about the quality of a QB Sanchez really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 You guys want a nice hypothetical? If McCourty doesn't fumble which led to Jets taking 3 pt lead, does anyone here have faith that the Rex D wouldve stop Brady before he led them on a gamewinning FG at end of regulation? This is a good one. But as painful as it is, I'd prefer to deal in reality. What we DO know is that, after our special teams came through, the offense lost 4 yards and settled for another FG. You HAVE to score the TD in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 he was bordering on banishment last night... He's visajets and whoever visajets was before that got banned, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 A lot of the criticism is fair. For a top 5 pick he's basically a bust. Yesterday is not the day to kill him though for. JF80 is just trolling though too. 80's a gross individual on multiple levels. Some of the criticism is fair.. "pretty much a bust" is a gross overstatement. Whether he was the mvp of the team or not, he was still at the helm of the most successful run of Jet football I've seen in my lifetime. The worst record under his watch has been 8-8... This year he will make the playoffs again. He is not in the same zip code of bustdom as guys like Harrington, Akili, Couch etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I would call it a mediocre day. It wouldve been good without the TOs. So that makes 4 horrible games, 2 good games, and 1 mediocre game in the first 7. If he is good against the Fins, that would be 4-3-1 to start the season. Even if we go by your metrics, which I don't necessarily agree with, isn't 4-3-1 terrible for a #5 pick in his 4th season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 This is a good one. But as painful as it is, I'd prefer to deal in reality. What we DO know is that, after our special teams came through, the offense lost 4 yards and settled for another FG. You HAVE to score the TD in that situation. That's on Rex Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Even if we go by your metrics, which I don't necessarily agree with, isn't 4-3-1 terrible for a #5 pick in his 4th season? What's Staffords record this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Not to mention that even though the Jets defense isn't great, everyone would take it over the Pats. Sanchez threw a bunch of long completions, yes, but the Pats defense leads the league in that. He still made too many costly mistakes and didn't play well enough to win on what people are calling a "good" day. Yep. The Pats had the NFL's # 1 offense coming into today. Is it any surprise that, given the opportunity, their offense came through at the end? Sure, I'm STILL disappointed that the D couldn't win it for us. But they didn't lose it for us either. We only allowed FG's at the end to tie and take the lead, when TD's in either situation put the game away. But while they put us in position to come back and win this game, the offense couldn't come through. Pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 80's a gross individual on multiple levels. Some of the criticism is fair.. "pretty much a bust" is a gross overstatement. Whether he was the mvp of the team or not, he was still at the helm of the most successful run of Jet football I've seen in my lifetime. The worst record under his watch has been 8-8... This year he will make the playoffs again. He is not in the same zip code of bustdom as guys like Harrington, Akili, Couch etc. I'd argue that going 9-7, 11-5, and 8-8 with a topflight defense and, for the 1st two of those seasons, a topflight running game, is underachieving. That's 100 % on our poor QB. With a better QB, we win at least one division title and at least one other trophy that means something (AFC Championship or the Lombardi). As it stands, we didn't win a single thing of worth with Sanchez at the helm. We've been spoiled by Rex, not Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Sometimes it's a matter of perception and reputation. Eli threw an absolutely horrible INT late in the the game, right after the Giants got the ball back on a turnover. Gilbride had called a bad game in the 4th, not running Bradshaw enough (who was pissed on the sidelines about it). RGIII then takes the lead, Eli takes the lead back on next drive, and the Giants D actually holds the lead to win the game after that. The Jets and Giants game was earily similar at the end in their setup, but the Giants D made a play that counted and the Jets D didn't. Eli cements his hero status. Sanchez cements his suckage status. The reason it's about reputation is that Eli evens out his disasters with stellar play. Sanchez pairs his disasters with "well, that was pretty good for him, I guess". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Sure, I'm STILL disappointed that the D couldn't win it for us. But they didn't lose it for us either. We only allowed FG's at the end to tie and take the lead, when TD's in either situation put the game away. But while they put us in position to come back and win this game, the offense couldn't come through. Pretty simple. This is premium level trolling right here. Bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 That's on Rex Ryan Partly I suppose. He hired Sparano to call the plays and the play-calling wasn't superb there. But it can't be 100 % on the coaching in any situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Some of the criticism is fair.. "pretty much a bust" is a gross overstatement. Whether he was the mvp of the team or not, he was still at the helm of the most successful run of Jet football I've seen in my lifetime. The worst record under his watch has been 8-8... This year he will make the playoffs again. He is not in the same zip code of bustdom as guys like Harrington, Akili, Couch etc. In his 4th year in the league he is currently... 33rd in completion % (btw there's only 32 teams) 30th in passer rating 26th in yards per Griffin, Luck, and Weeden all have as many TD passes as him, Wilson has more (they're all rookies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 This is premium level trolling right here. Bravo. Who's more culpable for the loss? The D for allowing FG's against the # 1 offense? Or the QB for failing to come through against a bottom 5 pass defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The reason it's about reputation is that Eli evens out his disasters with stellar play. Sanchez pairs his disasters with "well, that was pretty good for him, I guess". Him taking the sack on that 3rd down pretty much summed up his entire career as a Jet. Good enough to get us in a position, dumb enough to completely blow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 In his 4th year in the league he is currently... 33rd in completion % (btw there's only 32 teams) 30th in passer rating 26th in yards per Griffin, Luck, and Weeden all have as many TD passes as him, Wilson has more (they're all rookies) And just think, the junior statisticians don't even care about those numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 It isn't just about how many but when they happen. They seem to happen when it counts. I know it happens. Since you're making this claim, I assume you've watched every game of every team this season and mapped out which drops were critical and which weren't to arrive at your conclusion. Please share you're data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Who's more culpable for the loss? The D for allowing FG's against the # 1 offense? Or the QB for failing to come through against a bottom 5 pass defense? I know you are trolling but when did football become the QB vs the defense? The other players dont matter? Shonn Greene sucking doesnt matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbatelli Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Even if we go by your metrics, which I don't necessarily agree with, isn't 4-3-1 terrible for a #5 pick in his 4th season? Everyone needs to get over the #5 pick thing. There are plenty of QBs that have been mediocre at the draft position. Look at Cam Newton. He sux now. On the flip side, when was Brady drafted? It comes down to how the team develops the QB. There has been no support whats so ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 What's Staffords record this year? Why does that matter to an evaluation of Sanchez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Him taking the sack on that 3rd down pretty much summed up his entire career as a Jet. Good enough to get us in a position, dumb enough to completely blow it. Huh? Folk came in and drilled the kick regardless. The bootleg was a terrible call as that play was dead before he even snapped the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I know you are trolling but when did football become the QB vs the defense? The other players dont matter? Shonn Greene sucking doesnt matter? Our team isn't nearly as good as it was in '09 and '10. I have not disputed this. But I argue that our QB is the # 1 problem with our franchise and will continue to do so. At no other position on the field do we have probably the worst or bottom-3 (Skelton, Gabbert may be worse) starting player in the NFL and it so happens to be the most important position on the field, one that has basically decided who the true title contenders are over the last 5 years. If this is trolling, so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 He was 16-20 in the 2nd half and played a good game. Did he have a bad pass to Hill? Yes. I was screaming for him to dump it off to Greene. That said he played well enough to win. The Hill drop was brutal as was the shotgun play on 3rd and 1 from the 3. The problem is many of you act like good QB's don't make mistakes. The junior statisticians amongst us are especially critical when it comes to Sanchez. Initally I thought they were serious, but I'm sure they don't believe half of what they type. You choose to belive Sanchez played another horrible game and was the reason we lost.... I choose to live in the real world. The problem is none of what you're trying to credit to me is even slightly true. The #1 sign of a person who is wrong and needs to change the argument of others in order to have something they can actually dispute. It's not that Sanchez had a horrible game, it's that he had a decent game with multiple horrible plays that ultimately played a major factor in the Jets' losing this game. It's not that other QB's don't make costly mistakes, it's that they don't make them with the great regularity that Sanchez does. It's not that other players on the Jets don't make bad plays that contribute to Jets' losses, it's that when they do, that performance doesn't still manage to be good enough to qualify as one of their best games of the season. When your analysis of Sanchez, on a clearly relative scale, means attributing him with having played a "good game" on a day when he was directly responsible for missing a wide open WR for a TD, botching a hand-off that led to a safety and fumbling the ball to end the game, in a game that ended up being a 3-point OT loss, that alone speaks volumes about him as a player. For yesterday to be considered a good game for him gives you all the reasons you need as to why so many people have lost all hope that he'll ever be what any NFL team is really looking for at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Everyone needs to get over the #5 pick thing. There are plenty of QBs that have been mediocre at the draft position. Look at Cam Newton. He sux now. On the flip side, when was Brady drafted? It comes down to how the team develops the QB. There has been no support whats so ever. Fine. Forget the #5 pick. Is 4-3-1 acceptable for the 7th highest paid QB in the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 In his 4th year in the league he is currently... 33rd in completion % (btw there's only 32 teams) 30th in passer rating 26th in yards per Griffin, Luck, and Weeden all have as many TD passes as him, Wilson has more (they're all rookies) At the end of his 4th year he'll be in the playoffs.. again. And those #'s will true up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Fine. Forget the #5 pick. Is 4-3-1 acceptable for the 7th highest paid QB in the league? Good call here. Drafting him at # 5 was pretty bad. Extending him for 2 more years was way worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 At the end of his 4th year he'll be in the playoffs.. again. And those #'s will true up as well. If we do make the playoffs, will it be because of Sanchez or in spite of him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Our team isn't nearly as good as it was in '09 and '10. I have not disputed this. But I argue that our QB is the # 1 problem with our franchise and will continue to do so. At no other position on the field do we have probably the worst or bottom-3 (Skelton, Gabbert may be worse) starting player in the NFL and it so happens to be the most important position on the field, one that has basically decided who the true title contenders are over the last 5 years. If this is trolling, so be it. Exactly. Sanchez's "suckage" is magnified because he is the most important player on the team, by a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 At the end of his 4th year he'll be in the playoffs.. again. And those #'s will true up as well. True up? His numbers have always been towards the bottom of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Why does that matter to an evaluation of Sanchez? You asked if that was good enough for a 4th year highly touted QB. Stafford was picked 4 picks before Sanchez. He fits the description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 ... the 7th highest paid QB in the league? F'n A. He really is isn't he. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Who's more culpable for the loss? The D for allowing FG's against the # 1 offense? Or the QB for failing to come through against a bottom 5 pass defense? The entire team is culpable for the loss. This want to put it one one person or one unit is ridiculous. Offense had bad spots. Sanchez had bad spots. Defense had bad spots. Special teams had bad spots. Coaching had bad spots. Entire team is culpable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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