Scott Dierking Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 There absolutely is. But, you know what, Woody's gotta swallow Sanchez's 8.2 million, plus money to tannenbaum and sporano. Is it the end of the world for him to not throw out another 6M in a rebuilding year? If Rex is the coach that many eople here say he is, he will get another head coaching gig right away, meaning that the Jets do not have to eat much salary at all on his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 And...... the process of truly rebuilding get delayed further I understand what you're saying, but it really doesn't delay the rebuild that much. Certainly doesn't have to. The Jets have no FA money this year, and need to clear cap space for 2013 and beyond, so they wouldn't be active in that market, anyway. And in the draft, all the new GM has to do is go BAP right down the line. Trade down where applicable, never trade up, and collect as much pure talent as he can. That roster will be the foundation for 2014. A relatively clean slate for the new coach -if they need one- and plenty of cap room to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 It's year 1. We're in cap hell, and we don't have a full slate of draft picks... And, by all accounts, it's a weak draft. This year is about gutting, and adding 1 or 2 pieces. The real rebuild comes after next year. Patience, Dierking-son. Here is what you have though-If Rex stays, HE helps pick the assistant staff around him. After next year's abortion, Rex will have to go, and we will be picking new staff again, and eating more salaries owed. We are looking at a minimum 4-5 staff positions that need to be replaced. Spare Rex the embarrassment and let him go now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 really? by who ya, he is supposed to be a snake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 There absolutely is. But, you know what, Woody's gotta swallow Sanchez's 8.2 million, plus money to tannenbaum and sporano. Is it the end of the world for him to not throw out another 6M in a rebuilding year? I hope they eat that Sanchez money. That remains to be seen. But yeah, overall I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 This decision is not about next year, it is about the future. We will never get a good GM contingent upon having to keep Rex here. First off, everyone good will realize that if the going gets tough, they will be gone before the coach, second, any good GM will want to bring in a coach they are comfortable with. So this is huge strike 1. Next, even if we get an Alex Smith, we are no better than an 8-8 team next year. I don't want an Alex Smith, I want a true franchise QB, and I want a big time offense that has a chance to someday win a SB! You don't get big time franchise QB's picking in the middle of the first round, unless you are lucky as sh*t, and we are not. Second, Rex has shown horrible judgement, when it comes to offense, both in coaching choices and in personnel choices. I have zero, absolutely zero faith that Rex and the new "must keep Rex" GM will be able to instill an NFL offense. This is typical Jets, no long term plan, lets play it one year at a time. We will be below average, to average at best next year, and miss out on a good draft pick, and will be stuck with Rex and an Alex Smith type QB. Every year we will be praying to squeeze out wins with our defense and poor offense, and hoping for breaks to get into the playoffs. It's not the worst situation, but its not what I want as a fan. I want championships, I want a team that every year is a legitimate contender to be a champion. I don't agree. A good GM would likely take the job with the understanding that they have to keep Rex (for salary reasons) for one year, and then after, it's their call. Further, that good GM basically gets a bonus year to scapegoat Rex. It's actually kind of ideal. When we suck next year, Rex's firing fulfills the fan's bloodlust and the new GM gets his guy. I think this is a long term plan, it's just one that includes one year where Woody doesn't have to shell out additional millions while we all know the team will not be much better next year. The coach doesn't matter next season, that's my whole point. As I said, all that matters is dumping some salary and picking up 1 or 2 players via the draft. That IS a long term plan. As for your wishes at the end of the post, I agree. We all do. The point being, firing Rex this year versus next year doesn't really make that happen any faster. This team's biggest issue is talent, not coaching, always was. We will be a contender when we can acquire more talent. We don't have the resources to do so next year. Hopefully we will in the near future, then coaching will be more important. Belichick didn't fail in Cleveland because he wasn't a good coach then... He failed in Cleveland because he didn't have Tom Brady and a very talented roster. Get the players... The rest will resolve itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 If Rex is the coach that many eople here say he is, he will get another head coaching gig right away, meaning that the Jets do not have to eat much salary at all on his contract. This is pretty much nonsense, as you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Here is what you have though-If Rex stays, HE helps pick the assistant staff around him. After next year's abortion, Rex will have to go, and we will be picking new staff again, and eating more salaries owed. We are looking at a minimum 4-5 staff positions that need to be replaced. Spare Rex the embarrassment and let him go now Depends how much the new GM has say in who comes in now. Maybe Rex doesn't hand pick his staff on his own. We don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 This is pretty much nonsense, as you know. You don't think Rex would get another job in this coach hungry market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Depends how much the new GM has say in who comes in now. Maybe Rex doesn't hand pick his staff on his own. We don't know. How much sense does that make? A coach can't pick his staff? How dysfunctional do we want this team. As much as I dislike Rex as a coach, you have to give him the chance to say who his assistants will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I hope they eat that Sanchez money. That remains to be seen. But yeah, overall I agree with you. They are eating the money either way. It's gone. Regardless of whether he's on the team. You're stuck with paying 8.2 million for: 1) Him to not be on the Jets. 2) Him to be a back-up QB. 3) Him to continue to be one of the worst QBs in the league. Either way, that money is a tremendous waste and largely why we are conversing in a "Tannenbaum Fired" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 You don't think Rex would get another job in this coach hungry market? What if he doesn't want it? What if he says, I'll take my 6M plus CBS money and work 1 day a week for a year. I'd do that. Point is, you can't fire him expecting a refund. That's bad business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Lombardi on subject: http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-york-jets/0ap2000000120352/New-York-Jets-front-office-shakeup?campaign=Twitter_nfln_videos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 What if he doesn't want it? What if he says, I'll take my 6M plus CBS money and work 1 day a week for a year. I'd do that. Point is, you can't fire him expecting a refund. That's bad business. Even worse business is keeping him, just because you owe him money, knowing you will be getting rid of him regardless. Same as your Sanchez analogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 How much sense does that make? A coach can't pick his staff? How dysfunctional do we want this team. As much as I dislike Rex as a coach, you have to give him the chance to say who his assistants will be. Not saying he has no say. Just saying that IF the plan is to give him one more year, for the sake of a trail/money saving plan, then you can not give him final say in all hiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I don't agree. A good GM would likely take the job with the understanding that they have to keep Rex (for salary reasons) for one year, and then after, it's their call. Further, that good GM basically gets a bonus year to scapegoat Rex. It's actually kind of ideal. When we suck next year, Rex's firing fulfills the fan's bloodlust and the new GM gets his guy. I think this is a long term plan, it's just one that includes one year where Woody doesn't have to shell out additional millions while we all know the team will not be much better next year. The coach doesn't matter next season, that's my whole point. As I said, all that matters is dumping some salary and picking up 1 or 2 players via the draft. That IS a long term plan. As for your wishes at the end of the post, I agree. We all do. The point being, firing Rex this year versus next year doesn't really make that happen any faster. This team's biggest issue is talent, not coaching, always was. We will be a contender when we can acquire more talent. We don't have the resources to do so next year. Hopefully we will in the near future, then coaching will be more important. Belichick didn't fail in Cleveland because he wasn't a good coach then... He failed in Cleveland because he didn't have Tom Brady and a very talented roster. Get the players... The rest will resolve itself. Time will tell, and I hope you are right, but I don't think you are. I think that Woody is in win now mode, not planning mode. I think Rex is in win now mode, not planning mode. That is a scary combination. That means we will do everything we can to not suck next year, to sell tickets, to keep Rexs job. Because we are in such a sh*t predicament, and becuase there are no very good QB's out there, we will be stuck with mediocre. This league is designed to keep teams mediocre. You don't go from mediocre to great, it just does not happen. You either go from crap to great, you stay at crap, or you stay at mediocre, that is it. We are going to be in the crap/mediocre range for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 If you do it the right way the New GM will want his own team members- so Rex still may not be safe if Woody does it the right way-which I doubt No blood on Woody's hands this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Not saying he has no say. Just saying that IF the plan is to give him one more year, for the sake of a trail/money saving plan, then you can not give him final say in all hiring. Sounds like a poor plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Even worse business is keeping him, just because you owe him money, knowing you will be getting rid of him regardless. Same as your Sanchez analogy Don't agree. You need a coach in a losing year. Why pay 2 of them to lose? Further, you don't KNOW you'll be getting rid of him. It's a 1 year audition. Best case scenario is actually that the team shows good progress and you extend Rex (I know most wont like that, but I mean that only in the case that it really looks like the right decision based on next years results). As for Sanchez, the difference is Sanchez is MUCH worse at his job than Rex is at his. That isn't in any way an endorsement of Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 You people are insane. Keeping Rex means you've cut off your nose in the search for a new GM. No GM worth an ounce is going to assume Rex's baggage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Even worse business is keeping him, just because you owe him money, knowing you will be getting rid of him regardless. Same as your Sanchez analogy As much as you think you know that, I don't think the Jets know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Remmber Rex is the one who said this is the best team he had before the year started. Less talk and more action Thats because this was Rexs team more than it was Tannys team. Parcells instilled in this franchise that the coach needs to pick the groceries, and Rex picked the groceries. It's pretty clear. To me, Tanny being fired means that is changing, that woody no longer wants the coach, or at least this coach to pick the groceries, and Tanny was never meant to pick the groceries, he does not have that type of background. Problem is he is not letting the new GM pick his chef! No good GM will come here without the ability to pick their own chef. Ecspecially with the history around here. We are FKD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Time will tell, and I hope you are right, but I don't think you are. I think that Woody is in win now mode, not planning mode. I think Rex is in win now mode, not planning mode. That is a scary combination. That means we will do everything we can to not suck next year, to sell tickets, to keep Rexs job. Because we are in such a sh*t predicament, and becuase there are no very good QB's out there, we will be stuck with mediocre. This league is designed to keep teams mediocre. You don't go from mediocre to great, it just does not happen. You either go from crap to great, you stay at crap, or you stay at mediocre, that is it. We are going to be in the crap/mediocre range for a while We may do "everything we can to win and sell tickets", but the reality is, based on our cap situation, there's not much we can do. In that sense, the Sanchez contract is a gift, as it forces us to think more long term. We can't over-invest in the wrong QB. We have very little room to maneuver. I mean, think about it, what moves would you make if you were trying to win now? Minding the salary cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 As much as you think you know that, I don't think the Jets know it. And that is why I am always consistently smarter than the Jets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 We may do "everything we can to win and sell tickets", but the reality is, based on our cap situation, there's not much we can do. In that sense, the Sanchez contract is a gift, as it forces us to think more long term. We can't over-invest in the wrong QB. We have very little room to maneuver. I mean, think about it, what moves would you make if you were trying to win now? Minding the salary cap. You don't think Rex is going to feel compelled to "win now"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I want and i guess all of us want to see the new GM talk woody into eating Sanchez contract now-take the hit now. That is one of the decisions he has to make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 We may do "everything we can to win and sell tickets", but the reality is, based on our cap situation, there's not much we can do. In that sense, the Sanchez contract is a gift, as it forces us to think more long term. We can't over-invest in the wrong QB. We have very little room to maneuver. I mean, think about it, what moves would you make if you were trying to win now? Minding the salary cap. It depends on what you mean by win now. To me, there is a difference between winning a championship now, and being as good as you can now. I think we are in be as good as you can now, which as you say, and I agree with, is not that good. BUT, it will be good enough to prevent us from having a high draft pick in 14. Rex is a good DC, good enough talent on Defense to be a good defense. If we bring in Smith, this is a 7-9 to 8-8 team, IMO. That is good enough to show improvement to keep Rex, good enough to have meaningful games to sell tickets, and good enough to not get a good draft pick in 14. Hence, we are stuck with no true QB, and stuck in mediocrity. Next year should be a true gutting year, clean house, get rid of bad contracts, get a great draft pick in 14, rebuild in 14. Instead, we will keep Holmes, keep Harris, Resign Revis, keep our overpriced oline, and we will not be in good cap shape in 14 either, and we wont have a real QB, we wont have the cap room to get big free agents. This is a bad move, no matter how you slice it, the math just does not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 You don't think Rex is going to feel compelled to "win now"? Of course he is compelled. But, honestly, improvement, an infusion of young talent, and control of the locker room is what should save his job. Most importantly, the question is, how is it done? How does Rex win now? Personnel moves that make this happen will be difficult to pull off based on the teams current situation and an early indictment of the new GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I think that Woody is in win now mode, not planning mode. I think Rex is in win now mode, not planning mode. there's no such thing as planning mode in the NFL you either turn it around in a year or you try again next year. this idea that the Jets have to fire everyone so they can be good in 2015 is flat out wrong. there's no rebuilding in this league, only reloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 It depends on what you mean by win now. To me, there is a difference between winning a championship now, and being as good as you can now. I think we are in be as good as you can now, which as you say, and I agree with, is not that good. BUT, it will be good enough to prevent us from having a high draft pick in 14. Rex is a good DC, good enough talent on Defense to be a good defense. If we bring in Smith, this is a 7-9 to 8-8 team, IMO. That is good enough to show improvement to keep Rex, good enough to have meaningful games to sell tickets, and good enough to not get a good draft pick in 14. Hence, we are stuck with no true QB, and stuck in mediocrity. Next year should be a true gutting year, clean house, get rid of bad contracts, get a great draft pick in 14, rebuild in 14. Instead, we will keep Holmes, keep Harris, Resign Revis, keep our overpriced oline, and we will not be in good cap shape in 14 either, and we wont have a real QB, we wont have the cap room to get big free agents. This is a bad move, no matter how you slice it, the math just does not work. Someone is going to pay Smith more than we will. Further, as I said above, the new GM makes these decisions, so if Smith is brought in for that purpose, it's an indictment on him. Rex should be given a cheap veteran and the directive that this is what you get, do the best you can and show me what you can do with the young talent. That's what will save you. Not a 9-7 season with a 1st round playoff loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 A lot of speculation in here. Rex has reportedly said that he wants Woody to make fundamental changes on offense. Say new GM is the guy who makes those changes? He does the search, and builds the staff on that side of the ball. That new OC would put in his system on the offensive side of the ball, and be the front runner for the HC job if Rex falters in 2013. Rebuilding and continuity all at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I don't see the Jets HC job, with holes all over the place and minimal cap room, as one that many good head coaches will want in 2013. 2014 Jets sounds like a better gig for a smart HC candidate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 there's no such thing as planning mode in the NFL you either turn it around in a year or you try again next year. this idea that the Jets have to fire everyone so they can be good in 2015 is flat out wrong. there's no rebuilding in this league, only reloading. Mike Shanahan told Dan Snyder he needed 5 years to turn it around. Seems like he had a planning mode and rebuilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 I don't see the Jets HC job, with holes all over the place and minimal cap room, as one that many good head coaches will want in 2013. 2014 Jets sounds like a better gig for a smart HC candidate. Same could be said for a GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFtoLong Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Someone is going to pay Smith more than we will. Further, as I said above, the new GM makes these decisions, so if Smith is brought in for that purpose, it's an indictment on him. Rex should be given a cheap veteran and the directive that this is what you get, do the best you can and show me what you can do with the young talent. That's what will save you. Not a 9-7 season with a 1st round playoff loss. I agree on Smith, but to me, I am saying a Smith type, Matt Moore and Alex Smith are the same guy to me, a game manager who won't lose games, nor will they win them. Smith will get more money because he was a higher draft pick and had a far better team around him. While I agree with you on how it should be done, I don't think that is how it will be done. I think they will try to maneuver the cap to be as good as possible next year, which will keep us in cap problems, if not make them worse, all to try to have a better season next year. Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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