Joe McKnight MERGED

[Greenseed4]

 

After getting a break like this, I think it would be a shame to give up that advantage by having Cromartie get injured on a return.

 

Especially when you have roster-bubble guys that can focus solely on developing their return skills.  I want THOSE guys staying late in practice catching JUG punts, and studying ST-Cover Teams.  I want THOSE guys mentally repping their returns.  

 

Cromartie (aka, Defensive MVP on our team...aka Team leader) should be on the sideline, resting up for his next series, getting hydrated, talking to Thurman about the opposing offense, and coaching up the younger guys on our secondary.  

 

No need to stretch ourselves thin (or put ourselves at an unnecessary risk) so that "Secretariat" can run it back to the 20 yard line. That's a job for our WR5 or our RB4.  Joe Schmoe can run it to the 20...and if he gets hurt, he's replaceable, and it only costs us pennies.   

[#27TheDominator]

Oh bullsh*t.

 

He's a football player.  Let him play some football.   I think Cromartie is overrated by Jets fans because he is not a SHUTDOWN corner.  He is a very good corner and athletically he matches up very well with some of the most gifted WRs in the game.  He is big, fast and rangy.  He is a horrible choice to cover guys in the slot.  The few times I've seen him on Welker he got his lunch handed to him.  He is nothing like Revis where you can put him on anybody and erase their name from the stat sheet.  He is an excellent player, but I want him where he can make an impact. 

 

I don't think at this point you can overrate Cromartie. He's been great - way better than any flashes we've seen from Wilson. To state otherwise is just being purposefully contrarian.

 

Better than Wilson?  There is an incredible endorsement!  I'm not downplaying the guys value.  He's a football player and I want him to play football.  Not do his nails on the sidelines except when it's time to cover Mike Wallace.

 

Especially when you have roster-bubble guys that can focus solely on developing their return skills.  I want THOSE guys staying late in practice catching JUG punts, and studying ST-Cover Teams.  I want THOSE guys mentally repping their returns.  

 

Cromartie (aka, Defensive MVP on our team...aka Team leader) should be on the sideline, resting up for his next series, getting hydrated, talking to Thurman about the opposing offense, and coaching up the younger guys on our secondary.  

 

No need to stretch ourselves thin (or put ourselves at an unnecessary risk) so that "Secretariat" can run it back to the 20 yard line. That's a job for our WR5 or our RB4.  Joe Schmoe can run it to the 20...and if he gets hurt, he's replaceable, and it only costs us pennies.   

 

That is exactly the problem with our specials last year.  When you use bubble guys they are on the bubble.  That means they are on and off the roster and dumped or moved to the practice squad when injuries require extra players at certain positions.  What you want are your 2nd tier guys and rookies to play specials - like Davis and the two safeties from last year.  IMO this was the biggest problem with the trades of draft picks by Tannenbaum.  I don't think it hurt our backups as much as most, but it hurt the athleticism on our specials and meant those guys were not sure things to be on the roster which equals uncertain and lack of stability on specials. 

[Bleedin Green]

Remember this?

 

 

 

It's amazing how things change.  On that day we were all laughing our asses off at that pussy Cro while praising the high and mighty Greene.  These days, most couldn't be happier that Greene is gone and Cro is one of the team's very best players.

[#27TheDominator]

In addition to playing our lock-down CB spot, (something maaayybe a handful of players can do in this league), we are paying Cromartie $9.5M this year.  

Why not have Geno Smith return kicks? He's athletic and shifty, and getting paid a helluva lot less. 

 

 

We are paying the guy $9.5M.  Let's find ways to keep him off the field. 

[Greenseed4]

We are paying the guy $9.5M.  Let's find ways to keep him off the field. 

 

Last year we lost our top-2 highest paid players to non-contact injuries.  Why would you want to put our #1 CB in the most violent play in football? Because he's so amazing at it?

 

Since adjusting the kick-off (to prevent said violent injuries) Cromartie has averaged 21 yards per return.  We could get that from Nick Bellore.  

Cromartie is a long-strider, due to the adjusted rules on kickoff we need smaller shifty guys, who can stop & go. That's not Cromartie's running style.

 

It's a moot point anyway, last year Cromartie's returns dropped from 17 (the previous year) to only 2.  The reason is likely every reason EVERY one else has recognized in this thread: the reward is not worth the risk. 

[Bleedin Green]

With McKnight already turning around and passing the test this morning, this is probably all a moot point.  Given how quickly it was addressed, it's doubtful this will factor into whether or not he makes the team a month from now and with some of the other questions they have at the RB position, they'll probably just let him play out his contract this year.

[Jetsfan80]

Oh bullsh*t.

 

He's a football player.  Let him play some football.   I think Cromartie is overrated by Jets fans because he is not a SHUTDOWN corner.  He is a very good corner and athletically he matches up very well with some of the most gifted WRs in the game.  He is big, fast and rangy.  He is a horrible choice to cover guys in the slot.  The few times I've seen him on Welker he got his lunch handed to him.  He is nothing like Revis where you can put him on anybody and erase their name from the stat sheet.  He is an excellent player, but I want him where he can make an impact. 

 

 

Better than Wilson?  There is an incredible endorsement!  I'm not downplaying the guys value.  He's a football player and I want him to play football.  Not do his nails on the sidelines except when it's time to cover Mike Wallace.

 

 

That is exactly the problem with our specials last year.  When you use bubble guys they are on the bubble.  That means they are on and off the roster and dumped or moved to the practice squad when injuries require extra players at certain positions.  What you want are your 2nd tier guys and rookies to play specials - like Davis and the two safeties from last year.  IMO this was the biggest problem with the trades of draft picks by Tannenbaum.  I don't think it hurt our backups as much as most, but it hurt the athleticism on our specials and meant those guys were not sure things to be on the roster which equals uncertain and lack of stability on specials. 

 

 

We are paying the guy $9.5M.  Let's find ways to keep him off the field. 

 

 

Are you kidding me with this stuff?  Where do I begin:

 

1.  There's only a couple shutdown corners in the NFL.  Even if Cromartie is NOT a shutdown corner (which I actually think he has been, or at least very close to it, see my numbers earlier that you dismissed PROVING this to be the case), that doesn't make him overrated.  It means we've been spoiled by having Darrelle Revis around.  His level of play, especially in that 2009 season, was absolutely unheard of.  Cromartie isn't Revis, but I still submit that he is a Top 5 corner.  As has been stated, he's the reason we felt comfortable enough to trade Revis, the best CB in the game. 

 

2.  So just because he's a "football player" we should throw caution to the wind and just put him out there just to do it?  Just how much is that extra couple yards of field position worth to you?  Because I can tell you, it doesn't matter around the league.  They adjusted the kickoff rules and offenses for the most part kept chugging.  Why?  Because offenses are getting better and better.  Ours hasn't because of Mark Sanchez and a few other factors.  The minute we have a capable offense, starting at the 20 most possessions like the rest of the league won't matter.  Just as we've been spoiled by great CB play, we've been disillusioned by horrific QB play to think that field position really matters that much in today's NFL.

 

3.  Oh, Wes Welker did well against Cro?  The guy who has more yards from scrimmage than any other WR, who has gotten to play with Tom Brady and now will get to play with Peyton Manning?  Cromartie isn't meant to cover slot guys.  And that's ok, because he won't really have to now that he's the # 1 corner.  He does GREAT against the big WR's in the league.  He was awesome against Randy Moss when Moss still had something left.  He's the only guy on our roster you could put up against the Calvin Johnson's, AJ Green's and Larry Fitz's of the league and not expect him to crumble. 

 

4.  Again, you overrate the value of special teams because we're the Jets.  Our special teams has been a HUGE part of our team ever since '09 because of our awful QB play.  We're not winning anything this year, so forcing Cromartie in there when his greater impact should be elsewhere is just plain stupid.

 

5.  I love the point another poster made above about how Cro, our defensive MVP, needs to be coaching up our young corners rather than wasting valuable practice time catching and returning punts and kickoffs.  This argument above ALL others makes my first 4 points almost moot.

[#27TheDominator]

Look.  Why don't we just agree to disagree.  I think these guys are football players and if they can help the team you use them to help the team.  Actually of all the bullsh*t we have thrown back and forth, the number one reason not to use Cromartie is simply that he isn't especially good at it.  If he is worth a yard or two a KR and no more TDs than why bother?  OTOH, if he is significantly better than what you have, I don't have a problem with using starters.  

 

How many of our kick returners actually got hurt returning kicks?  McKnight is always hurt, but he was always getting hurt in practice or carrying from scrimmage.  I see no reason whatsoever to think that the fact that Revis and Santonio Holmes got hurt without getting touched is a valid reason to keep Cromartie from returning kicks.    

 

I'm not looking to get into it about Cromartie's value.  When people thought he was a pussy, I thought it was overblown.  Now that he is seen as this stud CB I also think it's overblown.  IMO he has a great deal of value to the Jets, but is not well suited to much more than manning up on big fast WRs.  That's something few guys can do, but he can get owned by smaller shiftier guys and I've seen it.  There is no shame in not being Revis. There are few players good enough that I want to protect them by keeping them off the field except when necessary.  My point is simply that Cromatie is not one of them. 

 

When I look at a football game I try to get my weapons and playmakers on the field as much as possible.  Not keep them in the china closet for when company comes over. 

[Greenseed4]

When I look at a football game I try to get my weapons and playmakers on the field as much as possible.  Not keep them in the china closet for when company comes over. 

 

The fine China stays in the cabinet so that it doesn't get chipped (or worse, broken) when you're feeding the neighbor's clumsy kid mac n' cheese.  

[#27TheDominator]

The fine China stays in the cabinet so that it doesn't get chipped (or worse, broken) when you're feeding the neighbor's clumsy kid mac n' cheese.  

 

 

Let's save him for the playoffs!

[Greenseed4]

Let's save him for the playoffs!

 

hahahaa!  Develop the rookies... Roll out Mangold, D'Brick, and Cromartie in the Wild Card game.  

 

#championship

[JoeKlecko]

Not for nothing, but McKnight very well could have had an injury or some sort of condition (besides being a puss) that didn't allow him to complete or even do any of the test, rendering him physically unable to perform.  It's happened to hundreds of players who've had surgery or literally anything that caused him to miss the workout; he could very well be in shape and light the thing up in a couple days whenever it clears.  On the other hand, he could just be f*cking lazy and be out of shape.  Still think after all the years on these sites ya'll would wait a day or two to see what the reason is before calling for heads.

 

We were just being proactive.  

 

Seriously, the way every injury is reported and things scrutinized during the offseason, I thought that if McKnight was injured, we'd surely have heard about it.  That's why I jumped to the conclusion that he had probably just been dogging it.  Guess it wasn't one of my finer moments.  lol

[#27TheDominator]

 

 

Running backs coach Anthony Lynn said McKnight was on the list for an undisclosed medical issue and that he is in excellent physical condition.

 

 

It's fun to bash the guy, but it could be something as simple as a questionable EKG after the test.  I've played with guys in incredible shape that they fail for stuff that turns out to be nothing.  He didn't miss a single practice. 

[HessStation]

You can't make this stuff up. You just can't with this guy. Just cut him now. Example A of wasted talent.

[HessStation]

With McKnight already turning around and passing the test this morning, this is probably all a moot point. Given how quickly it was addressed, it's doubtful this will factor into whether or not he makes the team a month from now and with some of the other questions they have at the RB position, they'll probably just let him play out his contract this year.

Good to know...I hope I didn't dope myself once again by having high hopes for this guy this yr.

[SayNoToDMC]

I have no problem with this, let him stay. I'm also in favor of giving Rex another do over after the season.

[Larz]

so he didn't miss a practice ?

 

hysterical knee jerk reaction withdrawn, lol

[T0mShane]

FWIW, the Jets are working out Chad Spann today, who does what McKnight does.

[KSJets]

I read earlier today that he had cramped up and that's why he didn't finish the test.

[T0mShane]

I read earlier today that he had cramped up and that's why he didn't finish the test.

Sometimes I cramp up during sex, but that's just because I'm out of shape.

[JoeKlecko]

Sometimes I cramp up during sex, but that's just because I'm out of shape.

 

Hand cramp?     Sorry, couldn't resist!

[KSJets]

LOL...seriously, the article stated that his body fat percentage was 3.3% and that would lead to more cramps from him being dehydrated.  Apparently he got dehydrated today.  He said he's trying to get his % back up to 5 or 6% before the season.  I'm sorry, but 3.3% body fat is not out of shape.

[T0mShane]

Dehydrated McKnight fights to stay on field

By Jane McManus | Jul 27, 2013 4:32 PM

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=new-yorkjets&id=24520&city=newyork&src=desktop

CORTLAND, N.Y. -- Joe McKnight blamed low body fat for conditioning problems early in training camp. He said he missed the first day due to cramping during the initial conditioning test Thursday and during Saturday's practice said he was dehydrated.

"I'm good, just a rough day today," McKnight said. "I just had to fight through it. I'm a little dehydrated. My body fat is real low, and I cramp up a lot. Just have to get my body fat up right now."

McKnight said he was at 4 percent body fat during organized team activities but was 3.3 percent when he returned. He said his goal was to reach 6 percent. The running back took a knee at several points as the practice wore on and put an ice vest on under his jersey to try to cool down.

Two offseason acquisitions at running back, Chris Ivory and Mike Goodson, are not practicing the first week of camp. Ivory tweaked a hamstring and Goodson has not yet arrived due to undisclosed personal matters. Instead of taking advantage of the potential for increased reps, McKnight has struggled.

McKnight explained why he didn't pass the initial conditioning test Thursday and said he hasn't been lackadaisical when it comes to his fitness.

"Probably everybody thinks I wasn't working out, but I was at the facility," McKnight said. "I just didn't finish the test, but I came back the next morning and finished the test. I did one on Thursday and came back Friday and did it again. I was just cramping."

Dehydration was McKnight's issue as a rookie in 2010, when the fourth-round pick vomited during the first day of rookie camp in April. He worked hard to overcome a slacker stigma and last year went into the season carrying more weight. But Bilal Powell ended up splitting time alongside starter Shonn Greene while McKnight was pitched as a backup cornerback when Darrelle Revis was initially injured.

Now McKnight is fighting for his roster spot. He has been used as a kick returner but hasn't been consistently used at running back. After the two new backs were brought in this season, McKnight -- who is in the final year of his rookie contract -- said he didn't plan to lose his job.

"I don't care who they bring in; they're gonna have to kill me to take my spot," McKnight said in May.

But McKnight is hurting himself by not being better positioned to compete at training camp. He said he has been talking to running backs coach Anthony Lynn and offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg and wants to impress them.

"I feel like I need to make more plays, stand out a little bit more," McKnight said.

The first part of that is getting on the field.

[TechJet]

OK alrighty then! 

[Patriot Killa]

Well do it and stop talking it up !!

[Lizard King]

He's probably telling the truth....except that someone like him should be well aware that he probably needs to eat 13-15,000 calories a day. So he was, in fact, slacking.

[sirlancemehlot]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Gyj84RNJqYw?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Patriot Killa]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Gyj84RNJqYw?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

LOL@ how ironic that is...

[BurnleyJet]

Sorry I did not Win a Gold Medal, I was just tooo Fit lollllll.

[BroadwayJoe12]

It's 100% accurate and anyone who's had a muscle cramp whether swimming or running knows that it's pretty debilitating to the point where you have to sit off and have someone stretch you immediately.  The guys who are most apt to get cramps are those with low body-fat percentages and high proprtion of fast twitch fibers; so he fits the bill.  However, the training staff should be made aware of this and make sure he gets enough sodium and potassium in his drinks from now on. 

[SayNoToDMC]

As all the other great athletes here have pointed out, this is why I deal with cramping as a daily part of my life.

[T0mShane]

It's 100% accurate and anyone who's had a muscle cramp whether swimming or running knows that it's pretty debilitating to the point where you have to sit off and have someone stretch you immediately. The guys who are most apt to get cramps are those with low body-fat percentages and high proprtion of fast twitch fibers; so he fits the bill. However, the training staff should be made aware of this and make sure he gets enough sodium and potassium in his drinks from now on.

I'm going to guess that 80% of the league's WR and RB populations have <5% body fat and have oodles of fast-twitch fibers, and I've rarely (if ever) heard of any that used that as an excuse for failing a conditioning test. While I don't doubt that such body types are more prone to cramping, it seems strange that McKnight, going into his fourth year, would have difficulty managing such a thing. When you consider that he's been considered lazy and soft since high school and through college, then when he showed up puking as a rookie, it's impossible to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.

[#27TheDominator]

I'm going to guess that 80% of the league's WR and RB populations have <5% body fat and have oodles of fast-twitch fibers, and I've rarely (if ever) heard of any that used that as an excuse for failing a conditioning test. While I don't doubt that such body types are more prone to cramping, it seems strange that McKnight, going into his fourth year, would have difficulty managing such a thing. When you consider that he's been considered lazy and soft since high school and through college, then when he showed up puking as a rookie, it's impossible to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point.

 

There was some study a while back that found average body fat for WRs was 8% and they were the lowest.  McKnight was at 3% and acknowledged that he was too low and wanted to get to 6%.  That was his mistake, but he passed the test within 24 hours and didn't miss a practice.  To keep harping on this is beyond your normal bullsh*t agenda.  Worth a quick one liner, but anything beyond that is reaching.  The guy has a body fat percentage of 3% and you want to act like he is out of shape?  GTFO.  He's also one of 3 backs practicing.  The two guys brought in to take his job are out of camp and on the bike.

[T0mShane]

There was some study a while back that found average body fat for WRs was 8% and they were the lowest. McKnight was at 3% and acknowledged that he was too low and wanted to get to 6%. That was his mistake, but he passed the test within 24 hours and didn't miss a practice. To keep harping on this is beyond your normal bullsh*t agenda. Worth a quick one liner, but anything beyond that is reaching. The guy has a body fat percentage of 3% and you want to act like he is out of shape? GTFO. He's also one of 3 backs practicing. The two guys brought in to take his job are out of camp and on the bike.

My "normal bullsh*t agenda" that McKnight sucks and doesn't work hard has three years of professional evidence to support it, and three more years of evidence from his college career. But I'm the one reaching. Because of my agenda.

[#27TheDominator]

My "normal bullsh*t agenda" that McKnight sucks and doesn't work hard has three years of professional evidence to support it, and three more years of evidence from his college career. But I'm the one reaching. Because of my agenda.

 

 

3% body fat does not equate with doesn't work hard.  Stick with sucks.  You can harp on that all season. If you've never seen a guy in great shape bent over and groaning, you've never really played sports (15% body fat FTMFW!)