I have extrapolated that Idzik is going to have Rex on a short leash. (Good)

[T0mShane]

http://twitter.com/#!/MMehtaNYDN/status/361514588598054913

Manish Mehta:

Jets GM John Idzik said yesterday that he would be involved in "what we do schematically with" players. A very peculiar thing to say. #nyj

Jets GM John Idzik on picking starting QB: I'll have a big role

By John Breech | CBSSports.com

July 28, 2013 11:29 am ET

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/22921779/jets-gm-john-izdik-on-picking-starting-qb-ill-have-a-big-role

Jets general manager John Idzik said he'll have a 'pretty big role' in choosing the starting quarterback.

Jets coach Rex Ryan isn't going to have to pick the team's starting quarterback all by himself, he's going to have some help from first-year general manager John Idzik -- and apparently it's going to be a lot of help, too.

"My role? Well, I have a pretty big role in that," Idizk said when asked about the starting quarterback decision, via the Associated Press.

"When you look at who's going to play, Rex and I are going to talk about that freely," Idzik said. "And I like to believe that that has been the case so far, that if you put in that time and effort, when you make the decision, it's a 'we' decision. It's not one individual. It's not someone drops the gavel and does something counter to what the Jets want to do. We're all pulling the same direction."

It won't just be an Idzik and Ryan decision either, Idzik plans on involving almost every offensive mind on the coaching staff.

"It's a collaborative effort, guys," Idzik said, via the New York Post. "There's input from our offensive staff. There's input from our scouts. There's input from, of course, me and Rex. We sit down and talk about this on a daily basis. I think when we reach the culmination of gathering all that stuff, deciphering it and making the decision that it's not a surprise."

So remember, if the Jets starting quarterback struggles this year, don't just blame Ryan. You can also blame Idzik, the offensive staff and the team's scouts.

Of course, if Geno Smith looks anything like Russell Wilson during training camp -- Braylon Edwards sees some similarites -- then the decision should be an easy one.

[T0mShane]

Pretty interesting nuggets there in that Idzik is going to micromanage what happens on the field somewhat. On the one hand, it's a good idea to save Rex from himself and to actively protect his (Idzik's) investments. On the other hand, you have to wonder how Rex is going to deal with Idzik dictating coaching strategy. Really bears watching.

[Lizard King]

Idzik has no business determining the starting quarterback. If this is his way of neutralizing any hail mary coaching from Rex, it's a bad idea.

[SenorGato]

Idzik has no business determining the starting quarterback. If this is his way of neutralizing any hail mary coaching from Rex, it's a bad idea.

 

I wouldn't say no business. The best organizations make decisions as a whole. That said, CLEARLY a power move by Idzik. He wants Rex out, but like next year or something...So obvy. 

[faba]

Considering Rex stayed with mark last year after some of of the most terrible performances  by a QB- I think Idzik can not be content to just let Rex have full say in this.

[Patriot Killa]

Wouldn't it be amazing if Rex asked for a D cord job if he does get fired..

[#27TheDominator]

This can work both ways.  He doesn't trust Rex or it gives Rex an excuse if things don't work out.  To the extent Idzik is saying it's a "we" decision I'm in favor, but otherwise?   I'm not so sure.

[dbatesman]

http://twitter.com/#!/MMehtaNYDN/status/361514588598054913

Manish Mehta:

Jets GM John Idzik said yesterday that he would be involved in "what we do schematically with" players. A very peculiar thing to say. #nyj

This is kind of peculiar. I assume he means he has input into stuff like Coples moving to linebacker?

[Greenseed4]

This can work both ways.  He doesn't trust Rex or it gives Rex an excuse if things don't work out.  To the extent Idzik is saying it's a "we" decision I'm in favor, but otherwise?   I'm not so sure.

 

This, with a caveat.  Maybe John is explaining to the media that he will be sitting in on those meetings, and that unlike in Seattle he actually has a seat at the big table this year. 

[slats]

I'm always more interested to see what these guys do, rather than what they say. That said, I'm sure Idzik will want to see "his guys" get on the field, and may issue an executive order if Rex is hesitant to get them out there. Idzik has to be looking longer term than Rex. They can say it's not a conflict of interest, but it is.

I also think Idzik would be wise to tread a little lightly here. This is his first GM job, and he's more of a business guy than a football guy. He should know when and what to delegate. If he doesn't like the job Rex does, he can fire him at the end of the year, but he should let him do his job.

[Maxman]

Idzik and Rex work well together.  It will be nice when the Jets are like 7 and 2 and Rex gets his extension.  Then we can put all this silly talk behind us.

[T0mShane]

I know for a FACT that Max doesn't have the word "extrapolated" in his lexicon.

[JiFtheOracle]

Of course he's got a big say in the matter.  He's the GM.  I'm sure thats the case in any organization.  Its not like this is new to the Jets, Tanny was always present on HardKnocks when all the coaches were together talking personnel.

 

And everyone knows Rex is on a short leash.  Thats not some ground breaking conclusion that only T0mShane has realized.  Rex basically confirmed he knows it with his Clowney statement.  

[Greenseed4]

I'm always more interested to see what these guys do, rather than what they say. That said, I'm sure Idzik will want to see "his guys" get on the field, and may issue an executive order if Rex is hesitant to get them out there. Idzik has to be looking longer term than Rex. They can say it's not a conflict of interest, but it is.

I also think Idzik would be wise to tread a little lightly here. This is his first GM job, and he's more of a business guy than a football guy. He should know when and what to delegate. If he doesn't like the job Rex does, he can fire him at the end of the year, but he should let him do his job.

 

This brings up a good point.  When I read the quote I thought the context was in regard to the QB position.  If in fact, Idzik wants to see "his guys" (pl) it could be an indictment of Ryan's failure to play our rookie class last year once we lost the season.  I agree, we should have more tape of Antonio Allen, Josh Bush, Demario Davis, Jordan White, etc.  This could be John's way of saying "schematically" he needs to see where our talent lies so he can better prep the team for the following year. 

[T0mShane]

Mehta:

Last year, Rex on benching Sanchez: “That is my decision and solely my decision.” Rex today on it: "At no time was that ever just my decision"

#SickBurn

[dbatesman]

This brings up a good point.  When I read the quote I thought it was in sole reference to the QB position.  If in fact, Idzik wants to see "his guys" (pl) it could be an indictment to Ryan's unwillingness to play our rookie class from last year, late in the season.  We should have more tape of the rookie safeties, Demario Davis, Jordan White, etc.  This could be John's way of saying "schematically" I need to see where our talent lies so I can better prep the team for the following year. 

 

Idzik's feels when watching tape of Bart Scott last season:

 

[Sperm Edwards]

I think it can play well, like preventing Rex from trotting his guys out there and not giving young guys a shot after the season's already in the crapper (which it might be by mid-season this year).  Rex (or any coach) can't really bench a guy who's playing well and tell the team it's because we want to see if the cheap/young guy can make the older/expensive guy expendable in March.  That would have to come from above and is letting Rex be the good cop to Idzik's bad cop.

 

The down side is that if Rex does get fired after this season it could create an issue attracting the best HC candidate if the GM effectively gets final say on who plays and who gets benched.  Saying it is a "group decision" means that Rex can't play him if Idzik doesn't like the idea.  Rex can play who he wants IF Idzik agrees.  The best available HC candidate may not want to willingly sign up for a job where he's on a short leash by a power-hungry GM (if that's how it gets interpreted around the league).

[#27TheDominator]

I know for a FACT that Max doesn't have the word "extrapolated" in his lexicon.

 

Does he have lexicon?

[Lizard King]

Does he have lexicon?

[Jolot]

Considering Rex stayed with mark last year after some of of the most terrible performances  by a QB- I think Idzik can not be content to just let Rex have full say in this.

100 percent agree with you,...Idzik must have seen some of those, "Why do I think Mark gives us the best chance to win? because I just do". Press conferences

[T0mShane]

Good encapsulation by former GM Phil Savage:

When GM has new and longer contract than HC, he will have "bigger" vote on QB starter. Long-term vision vs. short-term survival. #Jets

[JoeKlecko]

I'm always more interested to see what these guys do, rather than what they say. That said, I'm sure Idzik will want to see "his guys" get on the field, and may issue an executive order if Rex is hesitant to get them out there. Idzik has to be looking longer term than Rex. They can say it's not a conflict of interest, but it is.

I also think Idzik would be wise to tread a little lightly here. This is his first GM job, and he's more of a business guy than a football guy. He should know when and what to delegate. If he doesn't like the job Rex does, he can fire him at the end of the year, but he should let him do his job.

 

I'm in total agreement.

 

The only thing I'm not sure about is the bolded portion.  Woody may not be giving Idzik that lattitude.  

[JoeKlecko]

I think it can play well, like preventing Rex from trotting his guys out there and not giving young guys a shot after the season's already in the crapper (which it might be by mid-season this year).  Rex (or any coach) can't really bench a guy who's playing well and tell the team it's because we want to see if the cheap/young guy can make the older/expensive guy expendable in March.  That would have to come from above and is letting Rex be the good cop to Idzik's bad cop.

 

The down side is that if Rex does get fired after this season it could create an issue attracting the best HC candidate if the GM effectively gets final say on who plays and who gets benched.  Saying it is a "group decision" means that Rex can't play him if Idzik doesn't like the idea.  Rex can play who he wants IF Idzik agrees.  The best available HC candidate may not want to willingly sign up for a job where he's on a short leash by a power-hungry GM (if that's how it gets interpreted around the league).

 

I don't see that as a downside.  His having a say so could very easily be limited just to Rex due to things like Rex sticking with Sanchez, not playing the young kids last season, or Rex doing something not in the best interests of the team long term in order to try to keep his job in the short term.  If Rex is fired following the season, Idzik could make it very clear to prospective HC candidates that they wouldn't be operating under than policy, that that policy was just used because of who Rex was and the way he coached.

[Sperm Edwards]

I don't see that as a downside.  His having a say so could very easily be limited just to Rex due to things like Rex sticking with Sanchez, not playing the young kids last season, or Rex doing something not in the best interests of the team long term in order to try to keep his job in the short term.  If Rex is fired following the season, Idzik could make it very clear to prospective HC candidates that they wouldn't be operating under than policy, that that policy was just used because of who Rex was and the way he coached.

 

I predict if Rex is gone and we don't get the most sought-after candidate any NFL team has interviewed in 10 years, this will add to the baggage of reasons why not.

[T0mShane]

I predict if Rex is gone and we don't get the most sought-after candidate any NFL team has interviewed in 10 years, this will add to the baggage of reasons why not.

Right now, the lead candidate has to be Darrell Bevell, the Seahawks OC. The guy comes from that Green Bay system that churns out QBs, and he's definitely put his time in. You can understand a GM not giving Rex autonomy regarding the QB position because offense is not what Rex does. I'm sure Idzik will give Rex free reign to do what he wants with Shel Richardson and Milliner, but he's not going to let Rex wheel Geno out to run the freeze option anytime soon. It's bad business.

[JoeKlecko]

I predict if Rex is gone and we don't get the most sought-after candidate any NFL team has interviewed in 10 years, this will add to the baggage of reasons why not.

 

It could, but I don't think it should.  Every situation is different.  Rex has certainly made a fool of himself in more than one way and more than once.  I think any reasonable, intelligent HC candidate could look at that situation and understand why Idzik chose to do that, and as long as Idzik assured/guaranteed him that he would not face any such situation, that would not be a valid reason for not accepting the job.

[kelticwizard]

.....I  I think any reasonable, intelligent HC candidate could look at that situation and understand why Idzik chose to do that, and as long as Idzik assured/guaranteed him that he would not face any such situation, that would not be a valid reason for not accepting the job.

 

So basically you are saying that no new head coach candidate would come here if that same rule was applied to them, and you are probably right.  If all the coaches know that such a situation would inhibit their authority to the point where they could not really function, why apply it to Rex?

 

If you're going to give a guy another year, then give it to him.  Don't retain him but put such restrictions on him that he feels he can't do what he needs to do.

 

Maybe Woody should have let Rex go along with Tannenbaum, if that's the way it's going to be.

[sirlancemehlot]

This is wise by Idzik and good for Rex if he hopes to keep his job.

1. Rex is Mr. defense. So giving him the reigns to start whomever he wants at QB would be as foolish as letting Morninweg pick the middle linebackers.

2. Making the decision a group effort relieves Rex of the blame should either or both QBs blow chunks this year. With Rex having a tenuous hold on his job, this is a huge hug from Idzik overall. The decision is now a team one and not a Rex one, making Rex exempt from the blame game at years end.

[JoeKlecko]

So basically you are saying that no new head coach candidate would come here if that same rule was applied to them, and you are probably right.  If all the coaches know that such a situation would inhibit their authority to the point where they could not really function, why apply it to Rex?

 

If you're going to give a guy another year, then give it to him.  Don't retain him but put such restrictions on him that he feels he can't do what he needs to do.

 

Maybe Woody should have let Rex go along with Tannenbaum, if that's the way it's going to be.

 

I'm not really saying any such thing.  They could.  I doubt that they would, but they certainly could if they were a first-time HC and were anxious for a job or perhaps even a veteran HC who had failed before and thought this might be his last chance.  Primarily, I was just responding to Sperm.

 

Let me say that I'm not saying that Idzik was right to do this.  I actually have mixed feelings.  Based on Rex's somewhat questionable handling of young players last year (not letting them play when it was clear that they weren't going to make the playoffs), sticking with Sanchez after he continued to embarrass himself and the team, and the inherent conflict of Rex working to save his job (or create potential for another HC gig) and therefore not necessarily taking a long-term view, whereas Idzik's concern IS long term and not the short term, I can definitely understand why he is taking the approach he is.  That said, I also tend to agree with your point.  Just as I don't think Woody should interfere with Idzik in doing his job (if he wants to fire Rex, allowing him to do so), I don't think Idzik should interfere with Rex.

 

OTOH, as a poster or two suggested, some franchises may take more of a team (GM, HC, scouting dept.) approach in making those kinds of decisions.

 

I guess it comes down to what's most important for us as fans...the freedom of a HC to do his job as he sees fit without interference from the GM, keeping Rex happy this year and letting him sink or swim based on his own merit even if it hurts the team long term, or making sure that the team's best interests (long term and the development of young players or enabling the GM to ascertain whether they will figure in the team's plans going forward or replacements need to be added via the draft or FA next offseason) are protected.  Normally, with everything equal, this wouldn't be a desirable thing to do, but this isn't a normal situation.  We've had a HC with mixed results and many thing he is on the hot seat and should be fired, so is may be coaching for his job, if not his career.  The supposed franchise QB has by and large been a flop and they just drafted an excellent prospect, and need to find out if he can play before next year's draft.  They have a rookie GM charged with shaping the future of the team who is learning on the job and trying to learn as much as he can about the young players the team has to help guide him going into the next off season.

 

If pushed, I guess I would come down on the side of protecting the team's long-term interests, even if could possibly cause some potential candidates to not be interested in the job.  Idzik is a first-time GM and he's learning on the job.  So far, I think he's done a great job, and has been much more effective/better in every face of his job than Rex has.  Also, Idzik is the boss.  The Jets just did an expensive and time-consuming search for him.  He should get the benefit of the doubt and have the opportunity to shape things as he sees fit as that is why he was hired.

[JoeKlecko]

This is wise by Idzik and good for Rex if he hopes to keep his job.

1. Rex is Mr. defense. So giving him the reigns to start whomever he wants at QB would be as foolish as letting Morninweg pick the middle linebackers.

2. Making the decision a group effort relieves Rex of the blame should either or both QBs blow chunks this year. With Rex having a tenuous hold on his job, this is a huge hug from Idzik overall. The decision is now a team one and not a Rex one, making Rex exempt from the blame game at years end.

 

I can see this going either way.  I can see it as a good thing to protect the team and perhaps Rex from himself.  I can see it as wanting to make it a group/team decision so that all are on the same page.  I could also see it as a sign that Idzik doesn't have much trust or faith in Rex

[ylekram]

I'm always more interested to see what these guys do, rather than what they say. That said, I'm sure Idzik will want to see "his guys" get on the field, and may issue an executive order if Rex is hesitant to get them out there. Idzik has to be looking longer term than Rex. They can say it's not a conflict of interest, but it is.

I also think Idzik would be wise to tread a little lightly here. This is his first GM job, and he's more of a business guy than a football guy. He should know when and what to delegate. If he doesn't like the job Rex does, he can fire him at the end of the year, but he should let him do his job.

I think izzys statement is more about 2 players,and less about the entire team. to make sure rex pulls the plug on sanchez on time instead of 3 weeks too late

[kelticwizard]

...I guess it comes down to what's most important for us as fans...the freedom of a HC to do his job as he sees fit without interference from the GM, keeping Rex happy this year and letting him sink or swim based on his own merit even if it hurts the team long term, or making sure that the team's best interests....are protected. 

 

If an owner thinks a watchdog is necessary to protect the long term interests of the club from the coach, then the owner should have fired the coach.

 

You send a man out on the field to run your team, then let him run it.

[JoeKlecko]

If an owner thinks a watchdog is necessary to protect the long term interests of the club from the coach, then the owner should have fired the coach.

 

You send a man out on the field to run your team, then let him run it.

 

Just as in our conversation regarding Woody firing Rex earlier, you keep making leaps/stretches that aren't part of the discussion.  There has been nothing said about "Woody" thinking a watchdog is necessary.  He hired Idzik to run the team as he sees fit.  It probably was solely Idzik's decision as it should be, and Woody wasn't even a part of that.

 

I find it ironic that you're so keen on letting the HC do his job and run things without meddling from the GM, yet don't think the same way regarding the GM and meddling from the owner.  If you did, you wouldn't have kept insisting that Woody should have fired Rex.  That is the GM's decision or should be, not the owner's.

 

Also, imo the health and success of the team over the long run is much more important than Rex or what Woody thinks.

[kelticwizard]

Just as in our conversation regarding Woody firing Rex earlier, you keep making leaps/stretches that aren't part of the discussion.  There has been nothing said about "Woody" thinking a watchdog is necessary.  He hired Idzik to run the team as he sees fit.  It probably was solely Idzik's decision as it should be, and Woody wasn't even a part of that.

 

I find it ironic that you're so keen on letting the HC do his job and run things without meddling from the GM, yet don't think the same way regarding the GM and meddling from the owner.  If you did, you wouldn't have kept insisting that Woody should have fired Rex.  That is the GM's decision or should be, not the owner's.

 

Also, imo the health and success of the team over the long run is much more important than Rex or what Woody thinks.

 

As has been clearly demonstrated, Idzik was hired on the understanding that Rex is the coach this year.   Idzik accepted the job, therefore that condition must be honored.

 

On the other hand, sitting people down on the bench is one of the most important ways a coach exercises and keeps his authority, and I don't know if  any coach can effectively operate if that is taken away from him.  And there can be no doubt that Idzik has at least tacit approval of the owner on this matter, or any coach would set him straight on this quickly.

 

Have you ever heard an NFL coach say, "Sure, I would have sat the QB down for ineffectiveness and brought in the second stringer, but that's the kind of move I have to talk over with the GM and everyone else first".  I certainly haven't heard that, have you?

[JoeKlecko]

As has been clearly demonstrated, Idzik was hired on the understanding that Rex is the coach this year.   Idzik accepted the job, therefore that condition must be honored.

 

On the other hand, sitting people down on the bench is one of the most important ways a coach exercises and keeps his authority, and I don't know if  any coach can effectively operate if that is taken away from him.  And there can be no doubt that Idzik has at least tacit approval of the owner on this matter, or any coach would set him straight on this quickly.

 

Have you ever heard an NFL coach say, "Sure, I would have sat the QB down for ineffectiveness and brought in the second stringer, but that's the kind of move I have to talk over with the GM and everyone else first".  I certainly haven't heard that, have you?

 

No, I haven't heard that before, but this is a different day and age, and every situation is different.  I'm not crazy about this move, and I normally wouldn't do it, but then in a normal situation, I (if I were the GM) wouldn't have to because I would have had the option of firing Rex and bringing my own HC, rather than having  to stick with someone I didn't have full confidence in and trust his judgment.   If I were forced to be in this situation by the same circumstances, I'd protect myself the way Idzik seems to be doing.  Then again, maybe he really likes Rex, but thinks he really needs to save Rex from himself.

 

Since when has Rex sat down a player for ineffectiveness?  All the evidence that we have strongly suggests that Rex will stick with Sanchez regardless of how poorly he plays, and will stick with "his guys" rather than give someone else a shot even if it's just to send a message to the player or team, when the season has already gone down the tubes.

 

Idzik supposedly will be here indefinitely. That's not a given with Rex.  Idzik needs to find out if Geno can play, and he needs to find out if Sapp, and some of the other young players are keepers, or if they will need to be replaced/upgraded during the next off season.  It is in the best interests of the team going forward to find out what they have in their young players, but it may not be in Rex's best interests, or at least Rex may not think that it is. For example, he could choose to stick with Pace as one of his starters at OLB (or let him play a majority of the minutes) rather than starting or giving those minutes to Barnes or Sapp.  That's not in the best interest of the team as Pace is the past, not the future, and his slowness makes him a liability on the field, but Rex might feel that Pace gives him the best opportunity to win this year simply because he's a veteran, knows the system, won't make mental mistakes, and can set the edge, whereas a young player will probably make some mental mistakes, won't know the system as well, so there will be some growing pains, but offers a whole lot more upside in terms of energy and speed.

 

One can also look at the QB situation.  One of the camp reviewers said that at this stage that Sanchez knows and appears to be running the base offense better than Geno, but Geno has more "Wow"  factor, has a stronger, more accurate arm, and because of his foot speed can make things happen that Sanchez cannot.  People have a fear of the unknown and football HCs aren't immune from that.  Geno could outplay Sanchez overall in TC and preseason, but Rex could opt to stick with Sanchez not because he doesn't want to rush Geno on the field and pressure him, but because he knows, likes and trusts Sanchez more, or at least he knows what the floor is with Sanchez and he doesn't with Geno.

 

IMO, Rex brought this solely on himself with the way he's handled the team.  Regardless of whether Idzik's intentions are to save Rex from himself, or to save the team and young players from Rex, I think this was a good move.  I'm not sure I would have made it, but I'm glad Idzik did.  He has a mandate to build a team.  For all we know, Woody may have given him a 3-year window in which to build a contender.  While that's not likely, Idzik will be judged on whether he succeeds or not, how quickly he succeeds, and what control he has over the team.  If he sits back and allows the HC to make decisions that will hurt the team in the long run and hamper Idzik in doing his job in building the team, then he's jeopardizing his own job.

 

In addition, Woody could have told Idzik that he couldn't fire him when he was hired this year, that he wanted Idzik to give Rex a chance this year, and that if he wasn't happy with the job that Rex does he can fire him next off season.  That would more or less make Rex a lame duck HC, and no intelligent GM is going to let his team go down the tubes with a lame duck HC or a HC who may make short term decisions trying to keep his own job, or enable him to get a shot at another HC job, that aren't for the good of the franchise/team long term.  It's Idzik's job to do what's best for the team long term.  I  may be mistaken, but I don't think this is the first time a GM has overruled his HCs' decisions in order to protect the team. The bottom line is the GM is the boss.  The buck stops there.  Just as he has the right to overrule the Scouting and Personnel Depts. in the draft and FA, he has the right to overrule the HC if he thinks the HC might make a decision harmful to the franchise.