Rex Ryan's pros outweigh his cons.

[CTM]

Sanchez under contract for two more years when Tannenbaum extended him. There was no reason for a coach to seek an extension at that time. The only function that extension served was to get Tanny a little room under the cap back.

 

 

There was a lot made out of making Sanchez feel special and that the organization was committed to him.. sounds like rex

[Larz]

There was a lot made out of making Sanchez feel special and that the organization was committed to him.. sounds like rex

 

those were posters on message boards opinions, not the jets statements

[slats]

There was a lot made out of making Sanchez feel special and that the organization was committed to him.. sounds like rex

Really, it sounds more like BS.

But even if it were the case that Rex asked to have Sanchez extended when there were two years left on his deal, it's still on Tannenbaum to do the right thing accountant-wise. Or GM-wise, however unqualified he may've been in that regard.

[Jettington]

If we're going to discuss the Sanchez extension and Rex's involvement in it we might as well discuss the drafting of Sanchez in the first place. I'm of the opinion that Rex didn't even want to draft a QB in 2009, (I remember he vocalized being welcome to a Favre return) and the choice to do so was made by Tanny and Woody as a vote of little confidence in Rex going into his first season as a head coach. I think they figured the first year would be tough sledding for a coach anyway, might as well add a rookie QB into the mix so they progress together.

The decision to extend him doesn't have Rex's fingerprints on it in my view, except in making known his confidence in Sanchez; with that said, the GM should have realized that his performance didn't warrant an extension regardless and should have acted accordingly. Doing a deal like that to clear cap space (while at the same time binding the team to a longer term commitment) epitomizes what was wrong with those post 2010 teams, they were running on fumes to try and extend a shrinking championship window, that is not a good way to secure your team's future.

[CTM]

those were posters on message boards opinions, not the jets statements

 

 

I think they were sanchez's statements, which told me someone sold that to him

[ZachEY]

Any one else remember when John Fox was a terrible HC?

[Jettington]

Any one else remember when John Fox was a terrible HC?

Coaches tend to look terrible when they don't have quarterbacks, but when they have great ones they start to look like Vince Lombardi.

[SMC]

Other than Seattle's Offensive Coordinator who do folks in the "Fire Rex" camp want to bring in?  Not saying there aren't better coaches out there, but I'm wondering if people think there are any "slam dunks" out there.

The change, if any, would have been for this season and the only choice would have been Andy Reid.  He's a brilliant offensive mind and look at how his QBs performed with him and after they left.  Unless the Jets get someone like that, they might as well stick with Rex because he's brilliant in his own right.

 

I doubt he can be a competent HC, but he can be balanced like suggested with a competent OC then it could work long term.

[T0mShane]

I would argue that people who want Rex fired are forgetting about the first two seasons, and the fumes the organization was running on after 2010. We have to remember that Rex didn't come in here fresh, he was inserted into what was essentially Mangini's arrangement. Rex inherited Mangini's GM, Mangini's OC, even Mangini's DC who stayed on the team but not as DC. Rex was able to make the most of the arrangement in 2009 and 2010, but in 2011 things changed, not from a coaching level, but from a management level. Our cap situation became increasingly worse, we weren't replacing talent lost with the talent necessary to compete at a high level, the QB never progressed enough and looks to be a bust at this point, or at least not playing to a 5th pick overall level. This past April Mel Kiper Jr compared the Jets to an expansion team in terms of what he perceived to be a lack of talent and this to me says it all. This team has been mismanaged by management and that is the real problem, not coaching.

You just made the argument that the team got worse the farther away from the Mangini Era it got because "management" replaced good players with bad players. If that's the case, who was the "management" during the Mangini Era and why did they do better then than now? And seeing as how Mangini had the same "management" group, why was it ok for him to be fired after a 9-7 season, but we should write Rex's struggles the past two years off to "management"?

It's not Rex's fault that he was not supplied the players necessary to be competitive, that falls on management, and that is why the general manager was fired after last season and Rex was not.

Rex was kept because Woody owed him $8 million dollars.

The team got old and slow in key areas, and the Jets went into a transition this past off season, a transition that should have taken place in the off season of 2009.

They got old at ILB, where Rex's boy Bart Scott broke down. Where else?

Tannenbaum was good at making the flashy moves, but when it came to efficiency many of his moves just raised question marks and showed the desperation of a team with a small window to win it all (with "capmageddon" prolonged until this off season).

This is true--they sold out for a short window with the Holmes-Harris-Sanchez extensions, and via the attrition that trading away draft picks year after year eventually brings to a roster. Tannenbaum stunk. But Rex doesn't get to wipe his hands clean entirely here. It's not possible that he didn't have a hand in shaping and developing the roster. He takes partial accountability for the mess.

I see the opposite being the case with Idzik and that's a good sign, his moves seem to be all about efficiency.

I love Idzik so far.

I don't think Rex is getting fired without Woody's consent, and I think Idzik took the job with the understanding from Woody that it is ultimately Woody's call. We have been given no indications from the organization that Rex being fired is a forgone conclusion, this narrative is entirely media created. None of us truly know what is really going on, but we can guess, and our best guess comes from remembering that Tannenbaum was fired, and Rex was not. I think this shows us that Woody wants to keep Rex, and desperately wants a reason to extend him.

Woody could give Rex an extension today. He could have done it a month ago. If Woody felt that Tannenbaum was 100% to blame for the team's decline, he would have done that. There is less than no chance that Idzik would have taken this job is firing Rex wasn't an option after this season. Woody is a jackass, but nobody is that stupid.

[T0mShane]

Finally something tangible. Good points. However I am not one of those that thinks Rex needs to be "shielded". I'm of the opinion that most coaches in the league have a particular expertise in one area, but that doesn't make them bad head coaches.

Where is the head coach that's allowed to be a de facto coordinator with literally zero other responsibilities? The Giants defense just got destroyed by Cam Newton, but nobody's saying, "Well, it's not Tom's fault; he's a receiver's coach."

I also disagree that Rex being fired is a foregone conclusion. We don't know if Idzik looked closely at the last 2 seasons or if he's operating under a clean slate when it comes to Rex.

Why would Idzik ignore Rex's entire body of work? That's ludicrous. Idzik is a first-time GM. There are 32 GM jobs in the world. He has to decide whether or not to tie his future to Rex Ryan. He'd be advised to cull as much information as possible, including finding out how much responsibility Rex shares for getting the previous young GM fired.

[kelticwizard]

Just curious-is there any reason to believe that the decision to fire Rex, if it is made, is up to Idzik alone?

 

Idzik came out with a statement about how choosing the starting QB was a group decision.  If he's so comfortable with the concept of consensus among people in the organization for that, it seems that there would also have to be consensus on the issue of replacing the head coach.  In this case, that would mean including Woody, who likes Rex.

 

Woody saying at a press conference that Rex is guaranteed his job for a year doesn't necessarily mean that at the end of the year Idzik simply walks into Woody's office and says, "I've terminated Rex and commenced a search for our new head coach".

[sourceworx]

Coaches tend to look terrible when they don't have quarterbacks, but when they have great ones they start to look like Vince Lombardi.

 

 

Bill Belichick agrees with this statement.

[The Crusher]

Coaches tend to look terrible when they don't have quarterbacks, but when they have great ones they start to look like Vince Lombardi.

 

 

Beyond this any discussion is futile.  

[The Crusher]

Bill Belichick agrees with this statement.

 

 

 

So does Pete Carrol.  

[NJ]

So does Pete Carrol.  

 

sourceworx, on 25 Sept 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Bill Belichick agrees with this statement.

 

 

 

Tony Dungy called - said he co-signs.

[slats]

Why would Idzik ignore Rex's entire body of work? That's ludicrous. Idzik is a first-time GM. There are 32 GM jobs in the world. He has to decide whether or not to tie his future to Rex Ryan. He'd be advised to cull as much information as possible, including finding out how much responsibility Rex shares for getting the previous young GM fired.

  

Poor Tanny, undermined by Rex. Luckily he has T0m to defend his honor. Lol.

What responsibility -if any- Rex shares in getting Tanny fired shouldn't really matter all that much to Idzik, if Idzik is, indeed, here in NY to be the man in charge. Rex would only share that responsibility because Tanny was such a weak executive, and poor talent evaluator. Idzik, at least, seems like a strong exec. And he's brought his own talent people in. He should just need Rex to coach.

Woody saying at a press conference that Rex is guaranteed his job for a year doesn't necessarily mean that at the end of the year Idzik simply walks into Woody's office and says, "I've terminated Rex and commenced a search for our new head coach".

I tend to agree. I think Idzik would have to sell his case to Woody before firing Rex. Potential replacements would be a big part of that conversation, too. There's this Bevell guy getting a lot of buzz on the internets... If Rex wins too many games with a gutted roster and a rookie QB, that case becomes a much harder sell.

[The Crusher]

Tony Dungy called - said he co-signs.

Bill Cowher called and said, "Hang in there Rex just five more years."  LOL

[faba]

If the Rex Jets overachieve he is not going anywhere. You think Idzik has a agenda to get rid of Rex- he wants to win bottomline.

[Jetsfan80]

Where is the head coach that's allowed to be a de facto coordinator with literally zero other responsibilities? The Giants defense just got destroyed by Cam Newton, but nobody's saying, "Well, it's not Tom's fault; he's a receiver's coach."

 

That's because no one cares HOW a coach wins or loses.  The W or the L are all that matter for a HC.  The Giants got destroyed.  Therefore Tom Coughlin did a poor job that day.  Period. 

[Jetsfan80]

Beyond this any discussion is futile.  

 

Only other point that can be made is that Rex, 14 weeks into his 3rd season, looked anything but terrible as an NFL Head Coach (32-19 record at the time) with Mark Sanchez as his QB.  Mark Sanchez.  That's miraculous.  Imagine if Ken Whisenhunt accomplished that with Kevin Kolb?

 

Once again, if Woody Johnson, Mike Tanenbaum, Mark Sanchez AND Rex Ryan all sucked, no chance we have any winning seasons and Rex would have been long gone long before this season.  As it stands, he's still our Head Coach, we're 2-1 with one of the youngest teams in the NFL, and the future looks insanely bright with him and John Idzik running things.

[Jetsfan80]

There is less than no chance that Idzik would have taken this job is firing Rex wasn't an option after this season.

 

Of course it was always an OPTION for Idzik, but you're treating it like its the ONLY option.  I'd say there's as much of a chance he earns an extension.  No one really knows what's going on in Idzik's head, which is a good thing.  The guy holds things tight to the vest, a vast change from his predecessor.

[slats]

If the Rex Jets overachieve he is not going anywhere. You think Idzik has a agenda to get rid of Rex- he wants to win bottomline.

Max had a good point yesterday (seriously!), but I can't find it now.

Basically, he said that a GM generally gets one shot to hire a head coach, and so if he holds onto Rex for even a couple years, he'll potentially extend his life in his current position. Cynical, but likely true. He'd probably please Woody by sticking with Rex, and probably earn some loyalty in return.

[Kleckineau]

I was pretty down on Rex at the end of last season. Would not have minded him getting axed. His dumb alliance to Snacho made no sense. Gotta admit I have softened my stance on him after seeing Wilk, Richadrson, Coples, Davis,  Harrison etc so far this year. 

If Geno can somehow turn into the long term QB solution and if not,they  draft one in the next draft and keep the current OC, provide the resources the offense needs, I can see Rex having success here if he cleans up his in game brain farts and continues to field a top defense.

[T0mShane]

Poor Tanny, undermined by Rex. Luckily he has T0m to defend his honor. Lol.

You bastard.

What responsibility -if any- Rex shares in getting Tanny fired shouldn't really matter all that much to Idzik, if Idzik is, indeed, here in NY to be the man in charge.

You're in middle management, aren't you? If you have one employee that you rely upon to preserve your job, you're going to make sure that that employee is the absolute best employee for that job. If you changed companies to take the place of a middle manager that was just fired, you're checking everyone in the office to see how much blood they have on their hands. Idzik can't screw up his coaching choice or he'll be joining Tannenbaum in the private sector.

Rex would only share that responsibility because Tanny was such a weak executive, and poor talent evaluator. Idzik, at least, seems like a strong exec. And he's brought his own talent people in. He should just need Rex to coach.

I agree with this. Objectively speaking, though, what grade would you give Rex as a head coach through three weeks?

[T0mShane]

Of course it was always an OPTION for Idzik, but you're treating it like its the ONLY option. I'd say there's as much of a chance he earns an extension. No one really knows what's going on in Idzik's head, which is a good thing. The guy holds things tight to the vest, a vast change from his predecessor.

Right now, Rex is a candidate. That's it.

[GKnight83]

Dungy is WAYYYYYYY overrated.

Fisher is HC of the Rams.

Billick is no upgrade.

Cowher is retired from coaching and wants no part of the NYJ job and its hyper critical press coverage. It's not for him. Seems like a good guy but he's overrated as well because of all the favorable press the Steelers got. If you want passing and offense then Cowher isn't your man.

Holmgren is retired from coaching and would want to also be the GM. Hell of a job he did in Cleveland. Hell of a job.

 

Pure speculation except the part about Fisher which I missed crossing off my list.  Also, it is obvious by the way I referred to Holmgren I was being sarcastic.  By that it was meant that even a failure like Holmgren was a better choice than Ryan.  Then again, if you think Rextard is a good HC your judgment is certainly questionable. 

[The Crusher]

Pure speculation except the part about Fisher which I missed crossing off my list.  Also, it is obvious by the way I referred to Holmgren I was being sarcastic.  By that it was meant that even a failure like Holmgren was a better choice than Ryan.  Then again, if you think Rextard is a good HC your judgment is certainly questionable. 

Anybody who roots for the Jets automatically qualifies as having questionable judgement.  Rex has had one losing season out of four coaching a team without a franchise QB.  Not saying he is perfect but to act like he is so terrible that it makes anyone that likes him dumb is foolish and arrogant.  

[slats]

Objectively speaking, though, what grade would you give Rex as a head coach through three weeks?

I think he's doing a damn good job considering the circumstances. He's got seven new starters on defense, and is giving up less than 17 points a game thru three weeks despite the fact his rookie QB has turned it over 7 times over those three games. That's his domain, his expertise, and he's kicking ass over there.

The team as a whole is 2-1. The Mornhinweg hire looks to be a good one so far. If Marty can stomach running a little more and/or get Geno to stop turning it over, this team can be one of the league's big surprises.

[slats]

You're in middle management, aren't you?

Oh, and I'm union. Don't mess with my communist bonafides.

[GKnight83]

Many of the names you've mentioned are simply overrated in my view. Tony Dungy would not have the reputation he has as a coach without Peyton; under his leadership the Colts had the same problems that prevented them from going farther than they did. If you want to see how much Peyton's Colts didn't need a great head coach to be successful just look at 2009, arguably their best season ever..and they had Jim Caldwell in the HC position. Jeff Fischer went to the Super Bowl in 1999 and hasn't won a playoff game since 2003, he's been living off of that SB apperance for his entire career. Billick didn't accomplish much after having one of the greatest defenses of all time, Bill Cowher didn't win a Super Bowl until his FOURTEENTH season as head coach of the Steelers (not to mention his playoff winning % is lower than Rex's [12-9 to 4-2]). And with Holmgren, he's in the Shanahan group as far as I'm concerned, won his championship with a HoF qb, but hasn't been able to bring a team to that level since.

I'm not saying these names are BAD coaches, all I'm saying is that people need to give Rex a chance to succeed over the long term with good personnel and consistent management. Imagine if the Steelers fired Cowher after the 1999 season when the Steelers finished 6-10 after being 7-9 the year before, and 11-5 the year before that. Cowher would never have had won his SB, and would likely have been forgotten as a coach who was good, but not good enough to win it all. The same could be said for Dungy, imagine if the Colts fired him after the playoff choke job of 2005, Dungy would also be in the good but not good enough group.

If Sanchez has been exposed as being as bad a QB as everyone thinks he is right now, then Rex should have won coach of the year in 2009 and 2010. I don't think I'm alone in this opinion, but if Favre stayed with the team in 2009, I think we would have won the Super Bowl.

People really underestimate how hard it is to be even a .500 coach in the NFL, coaches are cycled in and out of jobs on a seasonal basis, and finding even one that can lead your team to playoffs and win games is a rarity.

 

That is ok.  I do not believe the folks I mentioned are overrated.  There is a bunch of others out there that I could have added that I, myself, thought were poor choices.  However, I really love it when people resort to using If this and If that when trying to argue or debate.  I have news for you - If, did not happen.  It is not fact and if Joe Namath had not injured his knees none of us would still be waiting for a second SB 

 

A couple facts are there:  1).  Rex took a team built by someone else and won 11 games with it.  That sounds very familiar as I point out in my last statement.  2).  Rex and his partner in crime ruined a good core of players.  3).  Rex has put what looks to be a pretty potent front 7 but we will have to see what happens the remainder of the season.  4).  Rex seems to have made a good choice with Marty - again, we will have to see.

 

Using your logic I can say that Rex is the one who is way overrated.  I guess Ozzie Newsome let Ryan make draft picks.  No wait, Marvin Lewis or Mike Nolan had nothing to do with building the Ravens D!

[GKnight83]

Anybody who roots for the Jets automatically qualifies as having questionable judgement.  Rex has had one losing season out of four coaching a team without a franchise QB.  Not saying he is perfect but to act like he is so terrible that it makes anyone that likes him dumb is foolish and arrogant.  

 

Yes, I have often wondered myself why I still root for the Jets and have waited 44 years to see another Jet SB. 

 

I do not believe, nor have I ever meant to imply, that folks who support Rex are dumb and foolish.  If I am coming off that way, I certainly apologize. 

 

I am simply expressing my opinion that Rex is the one who is overrated.  I clearly stated I believe he can be an effective DC. 

[flgreen]

I think he's doing a damn good job considering the circumstances. He's got seven new starters on defense, and is giving up less than 17 points a game thru three weeks despite the fact his rookie QB has turned it over 7 times over those three games. That's his domain, his expertise, and he's kicking ass over there.

The team as a whole is 2-1. The Mornhinweg hire looks to be a good one so far. If Marty can stomach running a little more and/or get Geno to stop turning it over, this team can be one of the league's big surprises.

+1

 

That just about sums it up

 

He has also done it not with one rookie QB, but two.  The current one, even though he has shown some real flashes of being able to get the ball up field, is out pacing the prior one in turn overs.  Rex's D still has the team on the + side of W's and L's.

 

Every one is so hot on what a great HC Crowder was.  He would not even be remembered if the Steelers FO had as itchy of a trigger finger as the Jets have had with HC's. 

 

If Smith is the real deal, or if the Jets find the real deal in next year's draft, or if Simms is the real deal, Rex gives the Jets the best chance to win a ring.

 

Hate the clown in him or not, his D's are awesome

[The Crusher]

Yes, I have often wondered myself why I still root for the Jets and have waited 44 years to see another Jet SB. 

 

I do not believe, nor have I ever meant to imply, that folks who support Rex are dumb and foolish.  If I am coming off that way, I certainly apologize. 

 

I am simply expressing my opinion that Rex is the one who is overrated.  I clearly stated I believe he can be an effective DC. 

 

 

Fair enough man.  I have actually tried to root for a team other than the Jets but it never worked.  It's like a curse.  Rex is an excellent DC and I believe we have not seen the best of him as a head coach yet.  Actually not sure if I believe that or hope that.  Got 44 years into this mess myself as well. 

[MexiRoll6]

I did not want Rex back. I wanted the new GM to pick his guy. But I am rooting for wins. I am just sick of all the stupid. Here is my take. Rex coaches D like the rest of us process food. It is not just automatic pilot, it is genetic. He is just really good at it. but when I see him in these post game pressers, when he walks in breathing like he has just been hyperventilating, and his voice comes out an octave higher so he sounds like Kermit the Frog with a sore throat, I have to wonder. Is he in this state on the sidelines? His in game management decisions are so inane that I think he is not in real control of the situation. Defense, no problem. Everything else, problem. He has been coaching a long time. He should be a lot calmer when he walks into the press room. Scary. Yesterday was typical. And that business with Kyle Wilson was an abomination. It is not okay to act like that. Putting him back out there was an admission that performing that way was no big deal. And those challenges! Did someone actually call down those challenges from upstairs? If so, what were they doing? If not, what was Rex doing? Good grief!

I tend to agree. I have said for the last two years that Rex is a half a HC, great on D but know NOTHING on offense. What galls me most about Rex is that he sticks with players who make mental and physical mistakes AND puts them in position to do it all over again the next week. He does not seem able to identify underachievers and bench them. Vlad Ducasse may be the best guard the Jets have available but he is a penalty a minute. Kyle Wilson is a waste of time - Walls and Milliner are ALL better and yet who is it on the field most of the time? Rex has very little knowledge of how to correctly use challenges and that causes errors and loss of timeouts. Really guys, Rex got lucky on Sunday when Geno hit Holmes with that long one, because he would have gotten roasted if the Jets had lost. It would have been his fault. Rex is a great d-coordinator and for those who ask who the Jets should get that is better, I answer with Lovie Smith. Available and ready to show the Bears were wrong in letting him go, Smith is also a defensive specialist who had the Chicago defense scoring touchdowns, before this year. He is also capable offensively and has worked with Mornhinweg so no real problem with scratching the offense.

[MexiRoll6]

You bastard.

You're in middle management, aren't you? If you have one employee that you rely upon to preserve your job, you're going to make sure that that employee is the absolute best employee for that job. If you changed companies to take the place of a middle manager that was just fired, you're checking everyone in the office to see how much blood they have on their hands. Idzik can't screw up his coaching choice or he'll be joining Tannenbaum in the private sector.

I agree with this. Objectively speaking, though, what grade would you give Rex as a head coach through three weeks?

I would give Rex a passing grade though barely. Yes his defense is playing very well and if we were talking about him as a DC he would get an A, but we are talking about his overall body of work as a HC which is what it is....barely passable. He screws up his timeouts with dumb challenges and mistakes challenges for timeouts. He answered a question about it in his press conference, "We were going to call a timeout anyway so we went ahead and challenged. From my perspective it was a first down." Dumb. A challenge is a precious thing and could have turned away Buffalo's tying TD. If you want to call a timeout do it, but don't waste BOTH a challenge AND a timeout in the process. This is again a fifth year HC NOT a rookie and he should know this stuff inside and out, but......and don't get me started on his love of underachievers like Wilson and Ducasse. This team is a few playmakers away from being a serious contender and I understand the trepidation of changing HC's, but honestly there are los of guys that could do Rex's job better. I nominate Lovie Smith...any takers?