RoadFan Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 You FAILED to answer the question. Dont be a hater. I did answer it. Holmes didn't cause any problems in 2010 either....publicly anyway. I personally witnessed one major issue with him that wasn't made public 3 hours before the AFCCG in Pittsburgh at the Jets' hotel. Likely the reason he was benched to start the game. He went AWOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSfaninNE Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Harvin scored in a SB. Has a ring. No one on the jets does Giacominininini would like to have a word with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadFan Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Giacominininini would like to have a word with you. So would SB MVP Larry Brown. How'd he work out in Oakland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I did answer it. Holmes didn't cause any problems in 2010 either....publicly anyway. I personally witnessed one major issue with him that wasn't made public 3 hours before the AFCCG in Pittsburgh at the Jets' hotel. Likely the reason he was benched to start the game. He went AWOL We are discussing HARVIN not Holmes what did he do to disrupt the 4-12 Jets last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win4ever Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 He has shown no inclination to reduce his pay, and in his eyes, he's better getting out than staying. He can go to a team that can feature him more (he's going to be the No. 3 here with a bad QB) whereas he can go to other teams and alteast be their No. 2, and if it's the Raiders, then the No. 1 and try to rebuild value in that fashion. The Raiders and other teams have to spend money to reach the 89% mark, so he's more likely to get overpaid just because they have to spend it. I wouldn't bring him back, because it's going to cost too much money for the WR group all together. I would rather we draft one in the first two rounds that fits the team better and won't cost nearly as much against the cap. Just because we have the cap now, doesn't mean we have to spend it. It's an argument used against the Harvin trade in the first place, but whatever cap we do have, we can roll over next year, because I don't think the 89% mark is mandatory for us until next year. So why waste it this year on a guy that may not be worth it, when we can still roll over the cap if we can't use it, or try to allocate those finances to something that may help the team out more elsewhere. In trade terms, Percy plus second round LB <<< Free agent LB making percy money (worldis?) and second round WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 It's not just the 10+mil that at issue with Harvin, but the lost of a 4th round pick also. This guy has to go, period, end of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 not at that price. He has talent but i dont think he makes a impact worth that price and pick. Seattle seemed perfectly fine letting him go I'll have to go back and re-read the article. I thought it said the Jets should try to convince him to play for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Be kinda nice if the Mods might merge the multiple Harvin Threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Be kinda nice if the Mods might merge the multiple Harvin Threads. Not while I'm holding out for more guaranteed money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Oh, and no to Harvin. Could be argued before Marshall arrived. Now it's a waste. Like Geno Smith is going to need 5 receiving options. Let's see his complaint being he keeps going through his progressions for all 4 pass-catchers and none could get open, and we need another badly enough to pay him more than the Packers are paying Cobb after a crazy-awesome season. Actually let's see him complete 3 passes to his not-first read in the same football game. Let's see him even look. We already have a better receiving group than any NFL QB could need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OuttaSightPF Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Oh, and no to Harvin. Could be argued before Marshall arrived. Now it's a waste. Like Geno Smith is going to need 5 receiving options. Let's see his complaint being he keeps going through his progressions for all 4 pass-catchers and none could get open, and we need another badly enough to pay him more than the Packers are paying Cobb after a crazy-awesome season. Actually let's see him complete 3 passes to his not-first read in the same football game. Let's see him even look. We already have a better receiving group than any NFL QB could need. How many threads are you fighting this battle in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 How many threads are you fighting this battle in? How many of these threads were started? They will not escape me by starting a new one. Never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 With the money Cobb and Maclin are getting, I'm curious to see who signs Harvin and how much he gets. Unlikely to be $10.5, but might not be as far off as many of us thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 If we're not signing free agents might as well keep P-Harves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 If we're not signing free agents might as well keep P-Harves. This was part of my initial argument...if you need to let him go to free up money for other FA's then go ahead and do it. If not, and still plenty of room under the cap and you are mandated to spend money...it makes no sense to let him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 If we're not signing free agents might as well keep P-Harves. If we don't end up with Revis there simply isn't enough high end guys to pay. Might have no real choice but to keep him. It would a fun offense to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 If we don't end up with Revis there simply isn't enough high end guys to pay. Might have no real choice but to keep him. It would a fun offense to watch. I get that he's overpaid by a couple million, but I can live with that if it means having a player like that for Gailey to move all over the field with defenses having to account for Marshall, Decker, Amaro, Kerley, Ivory/Spiller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32EBoozer Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 If we don't end up with Revis there simply isn't enough high end guys to pay. Might have no real choice but to keep him. It would a fun offense to watch. Again, he would basically be playing on a 1 yr. Deal He'll be missing out on the big guaranteed contracts that are being thrown around, but you have basically given up a 4th and 5th For Harvin and Marshall. You wouldn't have done that well in the draft! Tough call for Maccagnan if we don't get the FA we want and have all that money we need to spend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I hate the idea of giving him a new deal. The logic of cutting him is there. Save the money, save the pick. The logic of keeping him goes to how good a player you think he is and how he might perform in Gailey's offense. To redo his deal you may save a few million this year (when we have money) but you will have to guarantee more than the $10.5 or he has no reason to agree. You will still have to give up the 4th even if you redo his deal. I do not want to guarantee him anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bitonti Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 There is no argument to keep an expensive, draft-pick-costing, injury prone, character-questionable WR on a rebuilding team that (now) has Marshall/Decker/Kerley. Put simply, we (long term and short) are better off drafting a WR with the 4th round pick we wouldn't lose, than to keep Harvin and his bag of risks and issues. Without the loss of the 4th, maybe there is an argument. With it, just no. Desperate to have more WR's, fine, draft one. the Jets drafted 3 WR last year 2 of them 4th rounders and they weren't worth a pile of beans the advantage to Harvin is that he's a real player, already here and he's under contract the fans in this forum seem to believe that this is like Madden football and the players will just show up because we want them to or because the Jets have money. Everyone has money. the cap goes up 10 mil every year. the fact is good players don't really want to play for this team. They have other options. the Jets need to trade for guys or overpay. They won't get "good deals" because there's no chance of a ring. People bash harvin for not being a pure WR, that's not terrible. They need someone to run end around with and jet sweeps, let's be honest having pure wide outs with Geno Smith throwing is not the greatest recipe for success. Why not have a dangerous slash player to go with other "pure" WR like Decker and marshall Harvin as #3 could turn a weakness into a strength Cause let's be real no one else is showing up anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Agreed. He's not worth anywhere near the money that he would be owed this year. He's also not worth all the trouble that he'll surely cause when he gets his money. He's been a headache everywhere he's been and once he gets his money with the next team, he'll most likely be a headache there as well. He was only behaved in NY last year because getting kicked off two teams in the same season would make it virtually impossible to get another contract with another team. Add to that the fact that he's, at best, a mediocre wide receiver, a terrible route runner, and one of the more overrated kick returners in the game, and there's not much value there for someone making $10.5 million. I'd rather pay him 10.5 this year than have him on a 4-year deal for 8 per with 1/2 guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Gailey has done a lot of damage with slash type players like Spiller, Rocket, Slash. Geno did a lot of his damage with Austin in college. He seems like a good fit to me/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime21 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Again, he would basically be playing on a 1 yr. Deal He'll be missing out on the big guaranteed contracts that are being thrown around, but you have basically given up a 4th and 5th For Harvin and Marshall. You wouldn't have done that well in the draft! Tough call for Maccagnan if we don't get the FA we want and have all that money we need to spend This is a good deal but then if we let them walk next year or the year after we have nothing to show for it from the draft. There definitely no guarantees especially in the 4th or 5th round but a rebuilding team needs as many prospects as possible. To counter myself, we would have the money saved to pursue another WR free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Again, he would basically be playing on a 1 yr. Deal He'll be missing out on the big guaranteed contracts that are being thrown around, but you have basically given up a 4th and 5th For Harvin and Marshall. You wouldn't have done that well in the draft! Tough call for Maccagnan if we don't get the FA we want and have all that money we need to spend Getting Harvin and Marshall in the 4th/5th doesn't equate to a good draft? Lol, I'm guessing you're a new jets fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 This was part of my initial argument...if you need to let him go to free up money for other FA's then go ahead and do it. If not, and still plenty of room under the cap and you are mandated to spend money...it makes no sense to let him go. If he wasn't already on the team, with the rest of the team as-is, you'd be advocating trading our 4th round pick away so we could sign Harvin on a $10.5M or more year to year contract? Right after Brandon Marshall set the bar at a 5th rounder for nearly $3M/year less? If anyone thought he was worth that we'd have already traded him. We'd get to keep a 4th and 6th round picks this year. Yet not one team is inquiring. Not even those who need a starter and already have a QB in place. We're mandated to spend money, yes. We're not mandated to throw cap room away on a part-time player, which is what Harvin would be for us even if he's healthy all season long. I'd rather sign a guard or tackle, plus a CB who could still be starting here 3-5 seasons from now, and give Wilkerson a deal with a $20M+ roster bonus instead of an amortized signing bonus. Then we've spent a ton and can still have plenty of space to still make another splash next season when we might already have a known starting QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 If he wasn't already on the team, with the rest of the team as-is, you'd be advocating trading our 4th round pick away so we could sign Harvin on a $10.5M or more year to year contract? Right after Brandon Marshall set the bar at a 5th rounder for nearly $3M/year less? If anyone thought he was worth that we'd have already traded him. We'd get to keep a 4th and 6th round picks this year. Yet not one team is inquiring. Not even those who need a starter and already have a QB in place. We're mandated to spend money, yes. We're not mandated to throw cap room away on a part-time player, which is what Harvin would be for us even if he's healthy all season long. I'd rather sign a guard or tackle, plus a CB who could still be starting here 3-5 seasons from now, and give Wilkerson a deal with a $20M+ roster bonus instead of an amortized signing bonus. Then we've spent a ton and can still have plenty of space to still make another splash next season when we might already have a known starting QB. Maybe it's because I'm a Jets fan but fourth round picks don't excite me as much as some people who apparently feel that it's the golden round of the draft. If/when they let him go he'll probably get $2-3 million less than what he's due to make. I'd be happy to overpay by that much based on our current cap situation to keep a player who will go from facing #1/#2 CB's every week to getting moved around to face safeties and nickel backs. I'm tired of this team consistently having one of the worst offenses in the NFL. The group they have on the roster now could completely change that. Your comments on how they should approach free agency are excellent and I'd have no issue with that either, but when you have as much money as they do, there are a million different ways to do things so I'll trust them to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Getting Harvin and Marshall in the 4th/5th doesn't equate to a good draft? Lol, I'm guessing you're a new jets fan I don't get the obsession over a 4th round draft pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I don't get the obsession over a 4th round draft pick. the next jalen saunders could slip through our fingers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Maybe it's because I'm a Jets fan but fourth round picks don't excite me as much as some people who apparently feel that it's the golden round of the draft. If/when they let him go he'll probably get $2-3 million less than what he's due to make. I'd be happy to overpay by that much based on our current cap situation to keep a player who will go from facing #1/#2 CB's every week to getting moved around to face safeties and nickel backs. I'm tired of this team consistently having one of the worst offenses in the NFL. The group they have on the roster now could completely change that. Your comments on how they should approach free agency are excellent and I'd have no issue with that either, but when you have as much money as they do, there are a million different ways to do things so I'll trust them to get it right. I'd rather overpay him on this year-to-year deal than fairly pay him on a long term deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Took a look to satisfy my curiosity... Previous fourth round picks: Dakota Dozier- Too early Shaq Evans- Too early but not a single good report on him out of camp Jalen Saunders- already gone Bilal Powell- Nice player Joe McKnight- waste Dwight Lowery- couple okayish seasons Leon Washington- damn good player Brad Smith- Nice kick returner/wild-card when it was "new" Kerry Rhodes- One or two good seasons Adrian Jones- Starter for a year IIRC Jerricho Cothcery- Best of the bunch Alan Harper- Don't think he ever played Jamie Henderson- Started a few games Jason Wiltz- Back up for a couple years IIRC I'd call that about a 30% chance of getting a slightly above average player. Now I get the obsession with a 4th rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I'd rather overpay him on this year-to-year deal than fairly pay him on a long term deal. BINGO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 If he wasn't already on the team, with the rest of the team as-is, you'd be advocating trading our 4th round pick away so we could sign Harvin on a $10.5M or more year to year contract? Right after Brandon Marshall set the bar at a 5th rounder for nearly $3M/year less? If anyone thought he was worth that we'd have already traded him. We'd get to keep a 4th and 6th round picks this year. Yet not one team is inquiring. Not even those who need a starter and already have a QB in place. We're mandated to spend money, yes. We're not mandated to throw cap room away on a part-time player, which is what Harvin would be for us even if he's healthy all season long. I'd rather sign a guard or tackle, plus a CB who could still be starting here 3-5 seasons from now, and give Wilkerson a deal with a $20M+ roster bonus instead of an amortized signing bonus. Then we've spent a ton and can still have plenty of space to still make another splash next season when we might already have a known starting QB. It's not a 4th rounder to keep him. It's a 6th becoming a 4th. We get the 6th back if we hang onto him. Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th. Ergo, the 6th round of draft is the magic round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 BINGO! kid's got TTTs (thug turd tendencies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisvilleSlugger25 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Harvin is a gimmick WR that already has injury issues and locker room issues (Seahawks gave him away for a reason). I rather roll the dice with Kerley/Owusu/Evans/Enunwa and hope 1 of them emerges as a playmaker than waste valuable cap space on Harvin. If Harvin would come back at a reduced rate, then I would consider it, but at his current price/draft pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Harvin is a gimmick WR that already has injury issues and locker room issues (Seahawks gave him away for a reason). I rather roll the dice with Kerley/Owusu/Evans/Enunwa and hope 1 of them emerges as a playmaker than waste valuable cap space on Harvin. If Harvin would come back at a reduced rate, then I would consider it, but at his current price/draft pick "waste" presumes there is something less wasteful to spend it on--keep him until you need the money, at least, and see what shakes out in FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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