GAME OF THRONES (*SPOILERS ALERT*)

[JustInFudge]

24 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

It is established pretty early that magic exists in the world.

It was never established that Arya was the greatest fighter in the world.

I think you're letting your Arya hatred cloud you memory.  Arya has had the greatest training of any one person in Westeros.  They established she was a badass more than anyone in the show.  

Where was it established that Jon Snow was the greatest swordsman in the world?  He didnt have some intense training.  He trained with Sam and a bunch of meat heads that have never handled a sword but the first time he's thrown into battle, he's slaying it too.  Did you question that as well?  

 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think you're letting your Arya hatred cloud you memory.  Arya has had the greatest training of any one person in Westeros.  They established she was a badass more than anyone in the show.  

Where was it established that Jon Snow was the greatest swordsman in the world?  He didnt have some intense training.  He trained with Sam and a bunch of meat heads that have never handled a sword but the first time he's thrown into battle, he's slaying it too.  Did you question that as well?  

 

When I used to watch this show with dudes who had all read the books five times each they used to get BENT because Jamie Lannister and Barriston Selmy were supposed to be the best swordsmen of all time and the Starks were basically butcher-ass goons but in the TV show they're equally capable. One of them literally cried during he scene where Jamie and Ned face off in the street and Ned held his own.

[Irish Jet]

19 minutes ago, nycdan said:

She was presented as a skilled duelist / assassin.  Not so much a battlefield warrior.  But it wasn't a complete tear in the fabric of GoT reality.  She paid her dues with the faceless man and her time with Clegane.  

It’s not a complaint solely about this episode. She was dominating Brienne last year, she was by far the most effective fighter they showed in combat against the wights. It’s just bizarre, it’s too much.

My dislike of her character is more to do with her general demeanor, although that can be extended to most of the female cast as D&D have no idea how to write strong women beyond blunt badassery. 

I have less of an issue with her actually assassinating the Night King, it’s more her skill set even if it was a bit ridiculous, but I can forgive that for the shock value. 

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed. I wanted Jon to behead the ice dragon, though. That would have been bad ass. 

See, if I was going nitpick the realistic sh*t some of these bozo's are questioning....the most unrealistic thing to happen in that episode was Jon ducking behind the wall from the ice flames, meanwhile, those same ice flames destroyed the Great Wall. 

But nooooo, let's complain about the little girl who has literally been doing nothing but training and talking about fighting since the first time you see her on screen because she's great in combat.

 

[Irish Jet]

Just now, JiF said:

See, if I was going nitpick the realistic sh*t some of these bozo's are questioning....the most unrealistic thing to happen in that episode was Jon ducking behind the wall from this ice flames, meanwhile, those same ice flames destroyed the Great Wall. 

Oh trust me I caught that too.?

[nycdan]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

When I used to watch this show with dudes who had all read the books five times each they used to get BENT because Jamie Lannister and Barriston Selmy were supposed to be the best swordsmen of all time and the Starks were basically butcher-ass goons but in the TV show they're equally capable. One of them literally cried during he scene where Jamie and Ned face off in the street and Ned held his own.

Ned being a great swordsman isn't really something worth losing your head over.  Still, you do have to hand it to Jamie in an equal contest.  

[RutgersJetFan]

20 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

It’s not a complaint solely about this episode. She was dominating Brienne last year, she was by far the most effective fighter they showed in combat against the wights. It’s just bizarre, it’s too much.

My dislike of her character is more to do with her general demeanor, although that can be extended to most of the female cast as D&D have no idea how to write strong women beyond blunt badassery. 

I have less of an issue with her actually assassinating the Night King, it’s more her skill set even if it was a bit ridiculous, but I can forgive that for the shock value. 

Tbh at this point it just sounds like you have a hard time admitting you got dunked on by a chick. 

[kdels62]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I see two main complaints about this episode today. 1, that it was too dark and 2. Arya being a ninja is weak. 

The darkness complaint is whatever. It was clearly intentional and it was supposed to be frustrating, so if you're frustrated today, the director did his job. As for the Arya stuff, they made us sit through a full season of that boring "A girl has no name" sh*t so we could get to that moment. I believe it's implied that she spent multiple years training with that legendary assassin dude, and having her become Jet Li is a-o-*******-k with me because it's our reward for the neverending training montage.

I also think there's no way we're done with the Night King storyline. I don't think the wights return, necessarily, but there's gonna be a lot of reckoning with Danaerys, whom I still believe has some relation to him, so that'll be the framing of it. Also, the things Bran learned while warging are all Night King-related, so the complaint that they conveniently wrapped up the zombie war to be expedient is premature, imo

Bitching about Arya is dumb. Her, Jorah and Theon gave the episode something good. 

I am being harsh on the episode because it wasn’t actually bad and I enjoyed portions of it a lot. But man I was hoping for “last-episode-of-Spartacus” type of good and this wasn’t it.

It’s also annoying because the show is following what I wanted the show to do and it’s not great.

[Irish Jet]

47 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I also think there's no way we're done with the Night King storyline. I don't think the wights return, necessarily, but there's gonna be a lot of reckoning with Danaerys, whom I still believe has some relation to him, so that'll be the framing of it. Also, the things Bran learned while warging are all Night King-related, so the complaint that they conveniently wrapped up the zombie war to be expedient is premature, imo

I’m wondering too. It is a huge step down to go back to Cersei vs The Allies. It just doesn’t carry the same threat or significance, a point the show has gone lengths to drive home.

They introduced time travel with Hold The Door. Seems a huge thing to introduce just to explain a character’s name. Was expecting them to go back to that at some point.

[nycdan]

9 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I’m wondering too. It is a huge step down to go back to Cersei vs The Allies. It just doesn’t carry the same threat or significance, a point the show has gone lengths to drive home.

They introduced time travel with Hold The Door. Seems a huge thing to introduce just to explain a character’s name. Was expecting them to go back to that at some point.

We know from a glimpse of the previews that Drogon and Rhagal both survived the battle last night.  No matter how many ships and troops the Lannister army and its allies have, I don't think they have a chance against two dragons without the ballista they used a few seasons ago (and I think they were all destroyed).  The show will manufacture some way that it's more of a fair fight just to be dramatic but let's be real for a moment....dragons > everything else.

[greenwichjetfan]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

Well Arya was trained to be an assassin so sneaking up, even on dead people, seems plausible.  As that scene was unfolding, what I really, really wanted to happen was to have Bran pull his face off, revealing Arya, right at the last second and have her get all stabby on the NK that way.  It wouldn't have really worked out given the logistics, but it would have been really fun.  

I did find the kill scene a bit lacking after all the buildup, but I can roll with it.  Lyanna definitely got the best scene of the night.  If you want to be immortalized in song and legend by your people, that is the way to do it.

Last thought...I wrapped up Star Trek: Discovery, saw Avengers EndGame, and now GoT this last week.  Exhausting but also some really eerie parallels across all three (no spoilers here) that left me almost confused trying to sort it all out in my head.  

I get it. I'm not complaining as much as I'm noting that it's a bit much, especially given what we saw from the wights and NK earlier in the episode. In any case, as mentioned, I enjoyed it.

So when I said that I knew Arya was going to kill the NK after she ran out of the castle, that was actually my first thought. That she will assume Bran's identity and sit there and wait for NK to come and then kill him. My wife quickly pointed out (as she was trying to convince me that it was going to be Jon who killed NK) that Arya can only assume identities of people who are already dead.

[nycdan]

5 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I get it. I'm not complaining as much as I'm noting that it's a bit much, especially given what we saw from the wights and NK earlier in the episode. In any case, as mentioned, I enjoyed it.

So when I said that I knew Arya was going to kill the NK after she ran out of the castle, that was actually my first thought. That she will assume Bran's identity and sit there and wait for NK to come and then kill him. My wife quickly pointed out (as she was trying to convince me that it was going to be Jon who killed NK) that Arya can only assume identities of people who are already dead.

I know, damnit!  But still!... That was the scene that would have had us all jumping off the couch and screaming.  

Almost worth killing Bran for it

 

 

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I personally love that they ended the Dead dilemma last night.  The idea they would head south and there would be more conflict all the way to the end revolved around the Dead was kind of lame.  Now they're setting the stage to resolve what this was all about; who sits on the irons throne.  It's no longer about how to defeat death and back to the greatest chess game ever played by humans as the pieces.  How love, family, honor and how it's used as deception to take power now takes front stage and that's what made this show great to begin with...not dragons and dead dudes. 

Agreed 100%. I posted before the episode as well that I'm hoping for more of the bolded in the final episodes.

59 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Agreed. I wanted Jon to behead the ice dragon, though. That would have been bad ass. 

There was a moment when Viserion was on the ground and was occupied with something else. Jon saw his opportunity and was going for Viserion, and I was certain he was going to behead the dragon. Was so ready to finally see something badass, but then Jon had to retreat behind the pile of dead bodies because Viserion saw him and unloaded blue ice fire. Woulda been sick though.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I see two main complaints about this episode today. 1, that it was too dark and 2. Arya being a ninja is weak. 

The darkness complaint is whatever. It was clearly intentional and it was supposed to be frustrating, so if you're frustrated today, the director did his job. As for the Arya stuff, they made us sit through a full season of that boring "A girl has no name" sh*t so we could get to that moment. I believe it's implied that she spent multiple years training with that legendary assassin dude, and having her become Jet Li is a-o-*******-k with me because it's our reward for the neverending training montage.

I also think there's no way we're done with the Night King storyline. I don't think the wights return, necessarily, but there's gonna be a lot of reckoning with Danaerys, whom I still believe has some relation to him, so that'll be the framing of it. Also, the things Bran learned while warging are all Night King-related, so the complaint that they conveniently wrapped up the zombie war to be expedient is premature, imo

Both complaints are stupid.  The Arya sh*t was awesome.  Every single person who has a pulse has been looking forward to seeing what Arya would bring to the table once the war starter.  Especially since her finest moment since returning to Winterfell was toying with Brienne in front of the whole castle.  How have you not been dying to see her in that moment in that war with that weapon after all the training we've seen her go through?  Everything she's been through was for that moment.  And they didnt even make her invincible.  She had to be saved and her being saved gave way to some of the best moments of the show; Beric's send off was epic and Beric using Arya to get the Hound out of his funk was like poetry.

I do agree, the Night King isnt done.  Maybe he isnt a threat but there has to be something more to his story.  There is no way they had Bran go through all that to learn of Snow's real parents and to be a piece of cheese in the rat trap.  Yes, it gave way to another great send off with Theon but there is no way we went through all that, homeboy wargs that long during the fight only for it to be over now?  I dont think so.  He saw something significant and he's either going to alter something during time travel or he finds out some meaningful detail that decides someone else fate or history that impact the outcome.  

 

 

[nycdan]

4 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Agreed 100%. I posted before the episode as well that I'm hoping for more of the bolded in the final episodes.

There was a moment when Viserion was on the ground and was occupied with something else. Jon saw his opportunity and was going for Viserion, and I was certain he was going to behead the dragon. Was so ready to finally see something badass, but then Jon had to retreat behind the pile of dead bodies because Viserion saw him and unloaded blue ice fire. Woulda been sick though.

Jon has been pretty lame ever since he got cow-eyes for his aunt.  Nothing like the Jon we saw up north when he was chasing the fiery redhead.  Honestly, Theon had more balls than Jon last night.  Come to think of it, so did Greyworm.

 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Agreed 100%. I posted before the episode as well that I'm hoping for more of the bolded in the final episodes.

There was a moment when Viserion was on the ground and was occupied with something else. Jon saw his opportunity and was going for Viserion, and I was certain he was going to behead the dragon. Was so ready to finally see something badass, but then Jon had to retreat behind the pile of dead bodies because Viserion saw him and unloaded blue ice fire. Woulda been sick though.

I thought Viserion was going to open up on Jon with the blue flame and Jon was going to end up standing there naked but unharmed, mirroring Danaerys' rebirth in the funeral pyre and the Night King not getting cooked by the other dragon.

[T0mShane]

9 minutes ago, JiF said:

Both complaints are stupid.  The Arya sh*t was awesome.  Every single person who has a pulse has been looking forward to seeing what Arya would bring to the table once the war starter.  Especially since her finest moment since returning to Winterfell was toying with Brienne in front of the whole castle.  How have you not been dying to see her in that moment in that war with that weapon after all the training we've seen her go through?  Everything she's been through was for that moment.  And they didnt even make her invincible.  She had to be saved and her being saved gave way to some of the best moments of the show; Beric's send off was epic and Beric using Arya to get the Hound out of his funk was like poetry.

I do agree, the Night King isnt done.  Maybe he isnt a threat but there has to be something more to his story.  There is no way they had Bran go through all that to learn of Snow's real parents and to be a piece of cheese in the rat trap.  Yes, it gave way to another great send off with Theon but there is no way we went through all that, homeboy wargs that long during the fight only for it to be over now?  I dont think so.  He saw something significant and he's either going to alter something during time travel or he finds out some meaningful detail that decides someone else fate or history that impact the outcome.  

 

 

I read a review today that said Arya didn't "earn" that moment and I had to go deep into my browser settings to block that website from ever appearing on my computer again

[Integrity28]

2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

If you’re going to throw every nameless character into death have there be moments of genuine horror. Show fear and cowardice, loss of discipline and panic. Don’t show blurry shadows and pretend the shadows are characters that we care about dying, especially since they all survived.

The Hound.

I think you’re trying too hard to have an issue with this. It’s cool. Rant away.

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

See, if I was going nitpick the realistic sh*t some of these bozo's are questioning....the most unrealistic thing to happen in that episode was Jon ducking behind the wall from the ice flames, meanwhile, those same ice flames destroyed the Great Wall. 

But nooooo, let's complain about the little girl who has literally been doing nothing but training and talking about fighting since the first time you see her on screen because she's great in combat.

 

I think you're coming off a little harsh calling people idiots and bozos because they want to see the show maintain the integrity its created for itself over the past 7 years. The whole hating Arya and Lyanna thing is just weird, I agree. I personally love Arya and was happy with her killing the NK, but It's perfectly reasonable to want to see it make sense. Otherwise wtf are we even watching?

If Arya assumed Bran's identity in the wheelchair, ripped off the Bran face mask and stabbed the NK in the chest to end that plot line, would you just readily accept it because: dragons and walking dead? Or would you question how Arya took Bran's identity while he was still alive given that it's been established that she can only assume dead people's identities?

[RutgersJetFan]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I read a review today that said Arya didn't "earn" that moment and I had to going deep into my browser settings to blog that website from ever appearing on my computer again

WHAT DO WE SAY TO THE GOD OF BLOGS

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

Also I’m about 90% sure that Ghost was CGI’d in after the fact. Gone for seasons and he hasn’t been acknowledged at all. He’s the last direwolf ffs. They’re to the Stark’s what the Dragons are to the Targ’s.

Wait... you think the giant white wolf who would have aged 8 years and looked older by now was CGI?

Please tell me you’re trolling. You sound like an idiot.

[greenwichjetfan]

9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Jon has been pretty lame ever since he got cow-eyes for his aunt.  Nothing like the Jon we saw up north when he was chasing the fiery redhead.  Honestly, Theon had more balls than Jon last night.  Come to think of it, so did Greyworm.

 

Jon has been a disaster ever since the show outpaced the books. Literally a disaster. Dany has been exceptionally bad as well. Even last night, every time one of them were on screen, I was fiending for more Arya/Clegane/NK. Those three were my favorites last night.

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I read a review today that said Arya didn't "earn" that moment and I had to going deep into my browser settings to blog that website from ever appearing on my computer again

That's beyond ridiculous.  What did fans want?  For her to go through all that to hang out with Sansa in the crypts? 

 

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

 I also think there's no way we're done with the Night King storyline. I don't think the wights return, necessarily, but there's gonna be a lot of reckoning with Danaerys, whom I still believe has some relation to him, so that'll be the framing of it. Also, the things Bran learned while warging are all Night King-related, so the complaint that they conveniently wrapped up the zombie war to be expedient is premature, imo

 

 

[Irish Jet]

8 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I read a review today that said Arya didn't "earn" that moment and I had to go deep into my browser settings to block that website from ever appearing on my computer again

Subscribed.

[greenwichjetfan]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I thought Viserion was going to open up on Jon with the blue flame and Jon was going to end up standing there naked but unharmed, mirroring Danaerys' rebirth in the funeral pyre and the Night King not getting cooked by the other dragon.

TBH I hadn't thought of that, but I read a post earlier today that mentioned it and I thought, damn I shoulda thought of that! Then I read a bunch of comments telling that guy that he was a moron because targaryens only survive fire, not ice flames. So I'm glad I didn't think of that.

[Irish Jet]

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Wait... you think the giant white wolf who would have aged 8 years and looked older by now was CGI?

Please tell me you’re trolling. You sound like an idiot.

CGI’d post production. As in they initially didn’t intend for him to be in the scene.

[nycdan]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

 

 

Some article I read this morning referred to Bran waking up as 'Bran logging out of the Crow Flight Simulator'.  Got a laugh out of me.

[Integrity28]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

It’s not a complaint solely about this episode. She was dominating Brienne last year, she was by far the most effective fighter they showed in combat against the wights. It’s just bizarre, it’s too much.

My dislike of her character is more to do with her general demeanor, although that can be extended to most of the female cast as D&D have no idea how to write strong women beyond blunt badassery. 

I have less of an issue with her actually assassinating the Night King, it’s more her skill set even if it was a bit ridiculous, but I can forgive that for the shock value. 

I know plenty of actual strong women that don’t seem to have an issue with these characters. I’m sure they’d love you to mansplain why these strong women are not really strong women though.

[Irish Jet]

8 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I think you're coming off a little harsh calling people idiots and bozos because they want to see the show maintain the integrity its created for itself over the past 7 years. The whole hating Arya and Lyanna thing is just weird, I agree. I personally love Arya and was happy with her killing the NK, but It's perfectly reasonable to want to see it make sense. Otherwise wtf are we even watching?

If Arya assumed Bran's identity in the wheelchair, ripped off the Bran face mask and stabbed the NK in the chest to end that plot line, would you just readily accept it because: dragons and walking dead? Or would you question how Arya took Bran's identity while he was still alive given that it's been established that she can only assume dead people's identities?

To be fair that integrity left Season 5.

Ah Dorne. Such banter.

[JustInFudge]

9 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I think you're coming off a little harsh calling people idiots and bozos because they want to see the show maintain the integrity its created for itself over the past 7 years. The whole hating Arya and Lyanna thing is just weird, I agree. I personally love Arya and was happy with her killing the NK, but It's perfectly reasonable to want to see it make sense. Otherwise wtf are we even watching?

If Arya assumed Bran's identity in the wheelchair, ripped off the Bran face mask and stabbed the NK in the chest to end that plot line, would you just readily accept it because: dragons and walking dead? Or would you question how Arya took Bran's identity while he was still alive given that it's been established that she can only assume dead people's identities?

I was being silly, I dont actually think you're a bozo for having an opinion on a show about dead people and dragons.

I didnt see anything wrong with what they presented last night?  What did not make sense?  How did the show lose it's integrity? I'm confused. 

[nycdan]

2 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

CGI’d post production. As in they initially didn’t intend for him to be in the scene.

If you squint, you can see Obi Wan and Yoda in the background too.  

[T0mShane]

7 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Jon has been a disaster ever since the show outpaced the books. Literally a disaster. Dany has been exceptionally bad as well. Even last night, every time one of them were on screen, I was fiending for more Arya/Clegane/NK. Those three were my favorites last night.

Isn't that Jon's deal, though? That he's supposed to be dumb? 

[JustInFudge]

49 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I’m wondering too. It is a huge step down to go back to Cersei vs The Allies. It just doesn’t carry the same threat or significance, a point the show has gone lengths to drive home.

They introduced time travel with Hold The Door. Seems a huge thing to introduce just to explain a character’s name. Was expecting them to go back to that at some point.

I dont understand this take either.  The entire show is based around Cersi's and Jamie's incestual love and the Lannisters ability to manipulate all of Westeros to have it designed so they seem fit.

I care 1000000x more about what happens with her and the Iron Throne, than I did the Army of the Dead. 

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

TBH I hadn't thought of that, but I read a post earlier today that mentioned it and I thought, damn I shoulda thought of that! Then I read a bunch of comments telling that guy that he was a moron because targaryens only survive fire, not ice flames. So I'm glad I didn't think of that.

What are your thoughts on The Night King? There's rampant speculation that he's a Stark or Targaryen, but the book people are dug in that he's just one of the First Men that the tree kids created and any attempt to retroactively make him a Stark or a Targaryen is bullsh*t