some History.. Dewayne Robertson & the 2003 draft ~ ~ ~

[kelly]

Breaking down one of the riskiest draft moves (i.e. pick or trading picks, trading back, etc.) by the New York Jets over the past 25 years :

Round/overall selection : First/fourth

Did the risk pay off ? On the eve of the 2003 draft, the Jets made a panic move, trading two first-round picks (13th and 22nd) to the Chicago Bears in exchange for the fourth pick. Their target was defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson and, much to their delight, he still was available. Then-coach Herm Edwards felt Robertson would have a Warren Sapp-like impact as the 3-technique in his Tampa-style defense even though he wasn't that productive at Kentucky. The bold trade-up also raised eyebrows because it cost them so much. Why invest so much in a non-quarterback?

After the draft, everyone found out why they were so motivated.

The Jets knew incumbent Josh Evans was facing a long drug suspension, so they felt compelled to grab the best 3-technique in the draft -- or so they thought. Robertson didn't come close to meeting expectations; the money went to his head and he played with no fire whatsoever. Somehow, he lasted five years with the Jets, starting 75 games, but he never made more than four sacks in a season. Turns out he played with a bone-on-bone condition in one knee, which the Jets knew about before drafting him, it was revealed years later. Robertson was out of the league by the age of 28. Yep, this was a risk on multiple levels -- and it backfired in every way.

Was there a safer move ? This was hardly a talent-rich draft, evidenced by the number of busts in the first round, but the Jets could've stayed at 13 and picked safety Troy Polamalu, who wound up going 16th to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Someday, he'll be in the Hall of Fame. The Jets, coming off a division title (their most recent one, by the way), mistakenly believed they were one player away and reached to fill their biggest need. It was one of those drafts. In the second round, they picked a linebacker named Victor Hobson, ignoring some within the organization who lobbied for Anquan Boldin. He was taken with the next pick and is still playing.

>   http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/59456/jets-bet-heavily-on-dwayne-robertson-in-2003-and-lost-big-time

[PatsFanTX]

Who coined the name "human bowling ball with butcher knives"?

I think that was bitoni.

[Savage69]

7 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Who coined the name "human bowling ball with butcher knives"?

I think that was bitoni.

And he turned out to be a ping pong ball with a plastic fork..

[chirorob]

Herm tried so hard for that 3-Technique guy.   Moved Ellis inside, which he hated.  Drafted the bowling ball.   He really wasted a lot of assets trying to do that

[Bleedin Green]

Forgetting even the failure of the pick, the most idiotic part of this had to be making this trade before the draft.  While it was for good reason that this didn't happen (although the Jets may have been better off if it did), what the hell were they going to do if the guy they wanted came off the board before they picked?  That was some really weird crap.

[slats]

42 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Who coined the name "human bowling ball with butcher knives"?

I think that was bitoni.

Bit bought in wholeheartedly, but the original quote came from Warren Sapp. 

[roscoeword]

it seems like a bad idea to trade up,  like we did for Sanchez as well (especially for an organization who is a poor judge of talent) . The draft is too much of a crap shoot - just take as many good players as possible, and hope a few pan out.

[Beerfish]

Lets dwell on something a bit more happy shall we like Chad Jackson?

[KRL]

Bradway was not a good GM.  He also drafted a kicker in the second round (Nugent) thinking

that was the "missing piece" from us going deep in the playoffs after Brien's fiasco in 2004

[SenorGato]

30 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Herm tried so hard for that 3-Technique guy.   Moved Ellis inside, which he hated.  Drafted the bowling ball.   He really wasted a lot of assets trying to do that

They wanted Andre Johnson that year baaaad.

[PatsFanTX]

Bit bought in wholeheartedly, but the original quote came from Warren Sapp. 

Thanks, bit defended that even after DRob left the Jets.

[RutgersJetFan]

Two-time player of the week! TWICE!

[Beerfish]

 

[rex-n-effect]

This goes to show exactly how much terrible drafting hamstrings a team. Robinson did very little for us in exchange for two first round picks that at a minimum would have given us twice the opportunity to draft a meaningful player. It's generally unfair to look back with hindsight at who could have been drafted and saddle the team with not picking the franchise players but presumably a team with even average drafting would not have made that trade and pick. When you're always making these terrible personnel decisions it's difficult to lay the foundation to build an effective team. It's the same reason I don't support terrible personnel strategies often advocated here like getting as many picks as possible to see what sticks, mortgaging away the future just to get a shot at the playoffs, giving away the farm for a shot at a QB (or a DT), etc. Building a successful team requires careful and sustainable development.

[Savage69]

21 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Thanks, bit defended that even after DRob left the Jets.

Worse then that he said Dslob was the best D lineman the Jets had in the past 25 years which he must have forgot included Klecko..

[Il Mostro]

D-Fat was only two knees away from being one of the greatest and most beloved Jets defensive players. 

[bitonti]

Drob started 80+ games, had like 16 sacks in his career, which was shortened by knee injuries. As the article pointed out they needed a starter after Josh Evans was suspended, Drob started as a rookie.

 

Was that worth the trade up? Maybe not but he wasn't a Gholston level bust. He was even better than Coples if we are being honest. 

 

one side effect of following the draft every year is you see how many of these players don't live up to hype. It's a huge number every year. I'm glad the Jets took a swing, the alternative, staying in the middle of the round and taking bums was not necessarily a better move. 

 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, slats said:

the original quote came from Warren Sapp. 

yeah and what does that guy know about playing defensive tackle anyway

 

[Beerfish]

1 - Dwayne Robertson

2 - Victor Hobson

3 - BJ Askew

5 - Derek Pagel

5 - Matt Walters

6 - Brooks Bollinger

7 - Dave Yovanavits

 

How this did not end up being the foundation for multi super bowl runs is totally beyond me.

[Savage69]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Drob started 80+ games, had like 16 sacks in his career, which was shortened by knee injuries. As the article pointed out they needed a starter after Josh Evans was suspended, Drob started as a rookie.

 

Was that worth the trade up? Maybe not but he wasn't a Gholston level bust. He was even better than Coples if we are being honest. 

 

one side effect of following the draft every year is you see how many of these players don't live up to hype. It's a huge number every year. I'm glad the Jets took a swing, the alternative, staying in the middle of the round and taking bums was not necessarily a better move. 

 

Not for what he cost in picks plus Coples got his 16 sacks in his first 3 years and wasn't a starter except for 30 games in 3 years and played out of his natural position..

[slats]

23 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Drob started 80+ games, had like 16 sacks in his career, which was shortened by knee injuries. As the article pointed out they needed a starter after Josh Evans was suspended, Drob started as a rookie.

 

Was that worth the trade up? Maybe not but he wasn't a Gholston level bust. He was even better than Coples if we are being honest. 

 

one side effect of following the draft every year is you see how many of these players don't live up to hype. It's a huge number every year. I'm glad the Jets took a swing, the alternative, staying in the middle of the round and taking bums was not necessarily a better move. 

 

Are you really still defending that pick?

Amazing. 

As the article also points out, the Jets knew about the bone on bone condition in his knee when they traded up to take him at #4 the night before the draft. Just a terrible decision all around. 

[chirorob]

31 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Drob started 80+ games, had like 16 sacks in his career, which was shortened by knee injuries. As the article pointed out they needed a starter after Josh Evans was suspended, Drob started as a rookie.

Was that worth the trade up? Maybe not but he wasn't a Gholston level bust. He was even better than Coples if we are being honest. 

One side effect of following the draft every year is you see how many of these players don't live up to hype. It's a huge number every year. I'm glad the Jets took a swing, the alternative, staying in the middle of the round and taking bums was not necessarily a better move. 

 

He wasn't an epic bust.  He was a decent player who was drafted #4 overall.

[Sperm Edwards]

40 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Drob started 80+ games, had like 16 sacks in his career, which was shortened by knee injuries. As the article pointed out they needed a starter after Josh Evans was suspended, Drob started as a rookie.

 

Was that worth the trade up? Maybe not but he wasn't a Gholston level bust. He was even better than Coples if we are being honest. 

 

one side effect of following the draft every year is you see how many of these players don't live up to hype. It's a huge number every year. I'm glad the Jets took a swing, the alternative, staying in the middle of the round and taking bums was not necessarily a better move. 

 

Maybe? MAYBE?

And since you curiously bring up Gholston, you were sky-high on how shrewd it was to draft him as well.

The very point is that staying pat does NOT mean you will therefore draft bums. Troy Polamalu was not a bum. Nor were the bunch of pro bowl players available with our later 1st rounder.  Nor would they get the contract of a known pro bowler in his prime like Robertson did at #4 overall.

That is your problem (or it's one of them anyway, lol): you think everyone outside the top 5 or so picks is a bum. Even with the benefit of hindsight showing the polar opposite, you still incredibly suggest that outside the top 4 that year we'd get nothing but bums.

[bitonti]

40 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Not for what he cost in picks

it was a terrible draft overall. Does anyone remember who was taken with the Bears trade down picks? 

I do and don't even have to look it up. Michael Haynes and Rex Grossman 

[Bleedin Green]

49 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

1 - Dwayne Robertson

2 - Victor Hobson

3 - BJ Askew

5 - Derek Pagel

5 - Matt Walters

6 - Brooks Bollinger

7 - Dave Yovanavits

 

How this did not end up being the foundation for multi super bowl runs is totally beyond me.

Bollywood was the cream of the crop.

[bitonti]

10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Maybe? MAYBE?

And since you curiously bring up Gholston, you were sky-high on how shrewd it was to draft him as well.

The very point is that staying pat does NOT mean you will therefore draft bums. Troy Polamalu was not a bum.

You know who else I loved, Nick Mangold. No one ever says hey that Bit was right about Nick mangold. It's just haters remembering the mistakes. I make statements that people remember because I'm willing to go out on a limb. 

the idea that the Jets would have stuck and taken Troy Polamalu was optimistic. They could have taken 20 other bums, that's way more likely than taking Troy, who by the way, had an even scarier injury history than Drob. the guy was basically concussed his entire career at USC. 

 

drafting in hindsight is the most gutless activity any football fan can engage in. If you know the answer key it's not that impressive to get an A on the test. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

it was a terrible draft overall. Does anyone remember who was taken with the Bears trade down picks? 

I do and don't even have to look it up. Michael Haynes and Rex Grossman 

How ridiculous.

We weren't drafting a QB or a DE in round 1 (unless Carson Palmer somehow fell to #4 I suppose), so bringing up Grossman or Haynes is irrelevant.

Our safeties were Sam Garnes and Tyrone Carter. It's infinitely more likely we'd have drafted Polamalu than Haynes. Our TE was a stonehands non-receiver in Becht, who we weren't re-signing after his rookie deal was up, and with the team fully invested in Hackett's WCO there's a 0% chance we'd have drafted Grossman over someone like Dallas Clark (the next player taken who wasn't presently undergoing rehab for tearing his ACL+MCL+PCL). 

[Beerfish]

11 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Bollywood was the cream of the crop.

Cept he kept the Jets from getting a proper look at a much much better QB, that being Ricky Ray.

[bitonti]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

 Our safeties were Sam Garnes and Tyrone Carter. It's infinitely more likely we'd have drafted Polamalu than Haynes. 

back in 2003 it was a big leap to take a safety in rd 1. It's easy to defend the move in 2016 but in 2003 it was considered a luxury pick. 

and again you don't address the fact that Polamalu had a ridiculous concussion history going into the draft. His injury report was way worse than Drob. Only with a crystal ball can a team look at this player and predict he'd be fine. 

and note how you can only name 1 good player from that round. The Jets had 2 picks. Let's be real they probably draft 2 busts if they stay at that spot. 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

You know who else I loved, Nick Mangold. No one ever says hey that Bit was right about Nick mangold. It's just haters remembering the mistakes. I make statements that people remember because I'm willing to go out on a limb. 

the idea that the Jets would have stuck and taken Troy Polamalu was optimistic. They could have taken 20 other bums, that's way more likely than taking Troy, who by the way, had an even scarier injury history than Drob. the guy was basically concussed his entire career at USC. 

 

drafting in hindsight is the most gutless activity any football fan can engage in. If you know the answer key it's not that impressive to get an A on the test. 

Everyone loved Nick Mangold and we had no center. Mangold was as close as there is to a sure thing, not a crapshoot, and if centers were routinely drafted higher, and if the 2006 draft wasn't so deep, he wouldn't have been there for us at #29 overall. 

No they could not have taken 20 other bums. There weren't 20 other players for the Jets to take at their original position. We had Abraham, Ellis, and just drafted Bryan Thomas and were running a Tampa-2 defense. There is no way, no how, that the Jets were drafting a 280-lb DE with their 1st round pick in 2003.

And by the way, our original pick was 13th (Ty Warren), not 14th (Michael Haynes). So you're the one cherry-picking bad selections in hindsight to make it look like we would have chosen them, no matter how improbable the selection would have been.

[Bleedin Green]

13 minutes ago, bitonti said:

You know who else I loved, Nick Mangold. No one ever says hey that Bit was right about Nick mangold. It's just haters remembering the mistakes. I make statements that people remember because I'm willing to go out on a limb. 

the idea that the Jets would have stuck and taken Troy Polamalu was optimistic. They could have taken 20 other bums, that's way more likely than taking Troy, who by the way, had an even scarier injury history than Drob. the guy was basically concussed his entire career at USC. 

 

drafting in hindsight is the most gutless activity any football fan can engage in. If you know the answer key it's not that impressive to get an A on the test. 

It might help to stop trying to tout yourself as a draft expert, far above the so-called "gutless", when history has repeatedly shown you to have no more validity to your arguments than anyone else on the boards.  Your insistence on how right you are about everything, even when proven wrong, doesn't help either (see: this thread).  Everyone is wrong about this crap, at least on occasion, but your refusal to ever admit it makes you look far worse, not better.  In the end, it was an idiotic trade-up for a mediocre player... it's ok.

[Jet_Engine1]

3 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

Who coined the name "human bowling ball with butcher knives"?

I think that was bitoni.

It was Warren Sapp.

[Savage69]

Just now, Jet_Engine1 said:

It was Warren Sapp.

But Sapp got it from Bit..

[section314]

2 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

It was Warren Sapp.

Isn't that the guy the Jets turned into Kyle Brady?

[rex-n-effect]

10 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

It was Warren Sapp.

From one bowling ball to another.