Competent coaching could equal competent players

[Warfish]

6 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

...the fact that Geno Smith didnt have talent around him, nor did he have competent coaching.

Well, I'm convinced.  He clearly just needs a fair chance.  

Good thing (for him) it looks more and more likely he'll get that chance.

[Colgateman]

6 hours ago, BowlesMovement said:

Rex was AWFUL, absolutely AWFUL, and I would expect Geno to play much more competent football under a competent coach. My biggest qualm with Geno has been his lack of leadership. He has just had too many lack of leadership moments, and it always seemed to me that his teammates just don't like him. Its always possible that changes, but for the most part, you are who you are from a personality standpoint, and you can tweak your personality, its hard to make wholesale changes. That said, your point is a very fair point.

Yet plenty of his teammates post photos with him and are friends with him off the field.

[drdetroit]

Go with Geno next season

[dbatesman]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Do we know for sure that Hackenberg sucks? 

Depends on who his OC is

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Depends on who his OC is

And the HC (O'Brien). 

 

 

[jetrider]

2 hours ago, CTM said:

this is covered by 12 yo's on madden

 

Yeah, notice that in most examples the curl route is a full 10 yards deep just behind where the marker would be. The video demos how and why the play works, which nobody here denies, but it doesn't address its effectiveness as a 3rd down play which is the topic of discussion.

 

3-6 NYJ 32;  Jets 14  Pats 17  3rd QTR:

7 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

3 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Sanchez blows the read and then blows the throw. It has nothing to do with the offensive coordinator and nothing to do with the play. All curls is a west coast staple and is part of every team's quick passing offense, largely for situations just like this one. The route depth is exactly where it's supposed to be, and not doing what you suggest is precisely why the play works.

It didn't and it doesn't. Not on third down. That's the argument. It has everything to do with the call, the play, the design.

 

Quote

Vertical spacing isn't for converting third downs. The risk/reward decision between longer, tougher passes and shorter, easier ones is different when an unsuccessful play results in losing possession as well as the down.

Which is why shorter, easier, insufficient routes on 3rd down have a low success rate. Unless you're Chaddycakes and only care about Comp%. The rest of us prefer vertical slam dunk move the chains football. 

 

Quote

Here you want to spread them out horizontally and make them guard the whole line. Check. The reason the throw is short of the marker is that the defense knows where the line is too. See? There they are. The decreased likelihood of completing the pass in the first place without the cushion the play is designed to create outweighs the benefit of not having to pick up a yard after the catch is made.

You mean the increased likelihood of completing the pass with the cushion the play is designed to create outweighs the benefit of not having to pick up a yard after the catch. Again, not on a make or break 3rd down. That's the argument. It's better to make the catch and have enough yardage all in one move. Or don't use it on 3rd down. 

 

Quote

That's how it works in theory, anyway. In practice, Sanchez makes the wrong throw and makes it late. The read is even or odd coverage. Against cover-2 the seam is open, against cover-3 the flat is open. The outside linebacker is actually the read on the play, but here you can tell they're in cover-3 right at the snap because the cornerback at the bottom of the screen is already dropping off. Sanchez misses that, doesn't pick up his key, and throws it to the wrong guy, so the play is probably DOA right there, but just to make sure, he doesn't release the ball until the receiver is already out of his break. And yes, that is absolutely a first down if Sanchez doesn't just totally screw it up.

Absolutely? Not quite. The ball can't arrive before the receiver turns around. The timing, pattern, and coverage left Sanchez one clean option - McKnight - but it required a perfectly timed laser and he'd still need two yards more on the ground. As you can see, even McKnight would've been better off continuing the route past the marker.

[Villain The Foe]

EDIT

[Villain The Foe]

25 minutes ago, jetrider said:

Yeah, notice that in most examples the curl route is a full 10 yards deep just behind where the marker would be. The video demos how and why the play works, which nobody here denies, but it doesn't address its effectiveness as a 3rd down play which is the topic of discussion.

 

3-6 NYJ 32;  Jets 14  Pats 17  3rd QTR:

 

It didn't and it doesn't. Not on third down. That's the argument. It has everything to do with the call, the play, the design.

 

Which is why shorter, easier, insufficient routes on 3rd down have a low success rate. Unless you're Chaddycakes and only care about Comp%. The rest of us prefer vertical slam dunk move the chains football. 

 

You mean the increased likelihood of completing the pass with the cushion the play is designed to create outweighs the benefit of not having to pick up a yard after the catch. Again, not on a make or break 3rd down. That's the argument. It's better to make the catch and have enough yardage all in one move. Or don't use it on 3rd down. 

 

Absolutely? Not quite. The ball can't arrive before the receiver turns around. The timing, pattern, and coverage left Sanchez one clean option - McKnight - but it required a perfectly timed laser and he'd still need two yards more on the ground. As you can see, even McKnight would've been better off continuing the route past the marker.

Masterful. 

 

I stopped responding to anything @Miss Lonelyhearts writes to me for about two years now. Everytime she quotes me its just something stupid and attention seeking. I purposely never respond.  Atleast she now knows what "Masterful" really looks like. And trust me, nothing masterful is ever in a game of Madden. That was the first damn mistake lol. 

[Paradis]

7 hours ago, Joe Jets fan said:

Everyone can post 40 plays that show Geno for what he is, terrible.   He is a meat head who can not play QB.

 

What is it with people?  Did you not watch 2013 and 2014?  or the Raider game last year?

Please sign Fitz and cut his a$$ so we don't have to keep getting these crazy topics.

 

You know what I love about this place.. particularly JN... It's the double standards... Rich and fcking creamy in here.

 

Ryan Fitzpatrick....

1. Basically a journeyman backup, who mostly can't string together 4 quarters.
2. Was a meat head in CIN, STL, TEN, BUF, HOU...
3. Had two decent season in 12 years, Why? system and coaching

 

I don't even need to say anything. Some of you aren't real Jets fans, just jackals in the night. 

[jetrider]

33 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Masterful. 

 

I stopped responding to anything @Miss Lonelyhearts writes to me for about two years now. Everytime she quotes me its just something stupid and attention seeking. I purposely never respond.  Atleast she now knows what "Masterful" really looks like. And trust me, nothing masterful is ever in a game of Madden. That was the first damn mistake lol. 

I think she has a crush on you.

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, jetrider said:

I think she has a crush on you.

She be on it like she does lol. 

[NYs Stepchild]

7 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

This isnt the raiders game, but the packers game. However, if you projected his numbers from that Raiders game his stats would have been better than Fitz. 

 

Do me a favor, post those 40 plays and stop talking about it. post them right in this thread. 

This was you saying to post them right in this thread. Then your response is that this is off topic. I guess you must be having a bad day. 

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

This was you saying to post them right in this thread. Then your response is that this is off topic. I guess you must be having a bad day. 

It was me, responding to the idiocy. Im not having a bad day, but you do have a point. I should have just ignored it since it didnt provide anything to the topic anyway. 

[CTM]

1 hour ago, jetrider said:

Absolutely? Not quite. The ball can't arrive before the receiver turns around. The timing, pattern, and coverage left Sanchez one clean option - McKnight - but it required a perfectly timed laser and he'd still need two yards more on the ground. As you can see, even McKnight would've been better off continuing the route past the marker.

one clean option for an easy first down is a bad thing? the play was there, Sanchez threw to the wrong guy and even added insult to injury by doing so late. This was an execution problem and you even admit it by saying he threw it to the wrong guy, bizarre.

And what are you talking about perfectly timed laser crap? It's a 4 yard deep route, a pro QB should make that throw routinely.  The defender was 6 yards off with momentum heading in the opposite direction, that gigantic fat body crusher could've caught the ball waddled a step or two before collapsing forward out of breath and still got an easy first down. 

[jetrider]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

one clean option for an easy first down is a bad thing? the play was there, Sanchez threw to the wrong guy and even added insult to injury by doing so late. This was an execution problem and you even admit it by saying he threw it to the wrong guy, bizarre.

And what are you talking about perfectly timed laser crap? It's a 4 yard deep route, a pro QB should make that throw routinely.  The defender was 6 yards off with momentum heading in the opposite direction, that gigantic fat body crusher could've caught the ball waddled a step or two before collapsing forward out of breath and still got an easy first down. 

It still wasn't a guaranteed first down. McKnight turned around and stopped two yards short and if the ball hit him that very nanosecond he still had work to do.

And he couldn't wait for the ball either, it had to already be there (perfectly timed laser). 

Those are facts, your crap is hypothetical. He might've gotten the first down but not "absolutely."

Would've been better to take the route and cushion past the marker - the original argument - then all is needed is a catch.

[win4ever]

I do think systems make a large difference when it comes to QB performance.  I think I mentioned this last year, but might as well say it again.  Short sample size example, so not 100% reliable.  

Mark Sanchez's stats with the Jets and Eagles:

QB Rating:  71.7 with Jets.  86.6 with Eagles.  That's a 15 point uptick in performance.  Or a 20% improvement essentially.  

Y/G:  195 with Jets.  233 with Eagles.   Almost 20% uptick as well.   

TD/G%:  3.6% with Jets.  4.5% with Eagles.  25% uptick.  

Completion %:  55.1% with Jets.  64.3 with Eagles.  Almost 17% uptick from the Jets.  

While everyone hates Chip Kelly the GM, Chip Kelly the coach can run an offense.  He may not do much else for the team, but going from Rex to Kelly after a year of sitting out, Sanchez leaped up considerably albeit in limited time.  

The issue with the Jets and Geno weren't the system itself, it's also the supporting cast.  Once Decker got hurt in the aforementioned GB game (and offense went in the tank right after), who are Geno's options?  David Nelson?  He hasn't done anything since.  Greg Salas?  Jeff Cumberland?  Zach Sudfeld (who was considerate enough to point out where the ball was to the DB so he can intercept it)? Jeremy Kerley?  I remember just looking at some films and there would be nothing open because no one was able to run away from their defender.  Infact, I believe there is some quote from the Steelers the year before where they said, they played man coverage against us because they knew the WR options couldn't run away from any of them.  

The second issue with Geno was the system.  Marty Moringwheg ran a west coast system predicated on precise timing.  At the top of your drop, you throw to a spot you think the WR is going to be at.  However, this requires a mastery of time (Geno definitely has trouble with time) especially when it comes to drop backs because he was a shot gun QB in college all those years.  

This was Rex's biggest problem as a coach, because he just didn't understand offenses.  I'm almost certain Shotty impressed him with offensive game plans and he decided to hire him because he saw an offensive version of himself in him.  Someone who was going against the grain, trying to come up with complicated route trees much like Rex loves exotic blitzes.  The problem was that once Holmes declined and Braylon/Crotchery were gone, the exotic routes didn't matter to Sanchez because teams could recover against the bad players.  

Rex hired Morningwheg, IMO, because the Eagles absolutely destroyed the Jets in 2011, and Rex noted it down in his mental notebook that Marty was a stud and great at developing QBs.  Picking Geno Smith with Marty made no sense because they were such a mismatch for each other.  

A lot of times, it's the simplicity in a system that makes it work.  If you look at spread offenses in college, there are only a few routes that these WRs run, but they can switch it up at the line so much in terms of changing who runs these routes that it's efficient.  Bill O'Brien's system at Penn State, while complicated, gave easy reads to Hackenberg, and he thrived.  There are a ton of similarities with that and Gailey's system.  Even the Pats, how many times have we seen Gronk either cut across the field or run up the seam?  Or Edelman catching a curl route? If you keep it simple, but master the system, then you can take advantage of the defense because your timing is impeccable in it. 

To me, system is very important when it comes to developing QBs.  Then, talent around the guy.  Even Brady looks human without Gronk.  

[BowlesMovement]

7 hours ago, Colgateman said:

Yet plenty of his teammates post photos with him and are friends with him off the field.

Oh

[NYs Stepchild]

4 hours ago, jetrider said:

It still wasn't a guaranteed first down. McKnight turned around and stopped two yards short and if the ball hit him that very nanosecond he still had work to do.

And he couldn't wait for the ball either, it had to already be there (perfectly timed laser). 

Those are facts, your crap is hypothetical. He might've gotten the first down but not "absolutely."

Would've been better to take the route and cushion past the marker - the original argument - then all is needed is a catch.

You're absolutely right. Infact I don't think Joe was even an option here, and stopped because he knew that. There's no way was McKnight was anything more than the 5th read since I believe he had 1 or 2 receptions for the year. There was no time to go through 5 progressions here. This is why you run 2, or 3 clear out routes...but that's what they would expect you to do. 

This is the type of play where Mark usually throws a pick 6 because every receiver is on the same level and he tries to cross to an outside guy. Sanchez took the safe throw to Kerley who he probably locked onto before the snap. 3rd down the ball is going to Kerley, and he should have run a route past the marker, or they should have rubbed those guys with a slant. Shotty was here long enough that we saw many QBs do this same thing.

 

 

[BowlesMovement]

10 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Do we know for sure that Hackenberg sucks? 

If PFF questions either his fast twitch OR slow twitch numbers, he blows!!

[GREENBEAN]

ok

[Jetster]

15 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

This isnt the raiders game, but the packers game. However, if you projected his numbers from that Raiders game his stats would have been better than Fitz. 

 

Do me a favor, post those 40 plays and stop talking about it. post them right in this thread. 

Exactly, anyone that thinks Fitz would have had better numbers than Geno in that Raider game the way our defense played that day is dreaming. Carr ate our defense lunch, the boys didn't get off the bus that day.

[Jetster]

49 minutes ago, BowlesMovement said:

Oh

Players loved Jerry Glanville too & if was a f*cking idiot!

[Jetster]

The bottom line is that Geno Smith has not been afforded the chance to 1- play with a competent group of professional offensive weapons (David Nelson, Stephen Hill, Clyde Gates, Greg Salas, Jeff Cumberland are all below average players, with most of them out of football, not because of age but lack of talent). On the other side of the ball Idzik let the entire secondary fall completely apart, forcing the new regime (Macc & Bowles) to have to go into the free agent market & sign Revis, Skrine & Gilchrist! How many teams sign 3 free agents in one area? 

Not getting off the field or giving up a lot of yards does 2 things to the offense. One, the offense spends to much time on the sidelines which affects getting into any rhythm & two, it continually changes field position where the Jets offense was continually starting backed up to their own goal posts & usually from a deficit. Anyone who says they are knowledgable in regards to this game can't possibly ignore these facts.

The type of offense that Geno was asked to run is the most complicated (west coast offense) and according to Steve Young takes AT LEAST 4 years to master, 4 YEARS! And that's only if the coaching staff remains the same & you have players around you who are also talented & smart enough to know what their job is on each play. With the decrease in actual practice time because of the CBA it's even harder to implement this type of offense.

Finally, Chan Gailey has a fantastic track record of simplifying offenses & has had success with other QBs with much less athletic talent than Geno Smith including Ryan Fitzpatrick. Our chances of a weak armed 33 year old QB leading us to the playoffs with our schedule is very small. I'd rather get Mo signed long term, put Geno in there & let's see if he can finally learn to protect the ball. My feeling is that when some of these elite players around him start making plays his confidence will soar & he will be a lot better QB than most Jet fans could imagine. It's just my opinion, of course I could be wrong, but I'd like to find out because no one on this board can definitively say what will happen until he gets the chance to take a snap & see Marshall, Decker, Enunwa, Forte as his supporting cast, surrounded by 3 players in the top 100. I'm supporting Geno because I'm a Jet fan & I also know that very few QBs in this league succeed immediately.

[jamesr]

36 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Exactly, anyone that thinks Fitz would have had better numbers than Geno in that Raider game the way our defense played that day is dreaming. Carr ate our defense lunch, the boys didn't get off the bus that day.

I agree that that Raiders game was a L whoever we had at QB ... I remember watching and thinking early on that we were toast. Oakland were carving us up when they had the ball, and it was always going to be a high score game, not the sort of thing we excelled at.

What still disappointed me about Geno's game was when we still his old tendencies coming out - running out of bounds for a loss, or taking a sack, instead of throwing the ball away. Yes, he had a good day statistically, but still showed the tendency for those boneheaded moments.

Going back to some other games that were mentioned :

Green Bay - I posted at the time how the CS clearly did not trust Geno, and were hovering over him rather than letting him play. That TO was embarrassing, and stemmed from Rex's lack of discipline on the sidelines - coordinators and players calling time outs when it's NOT THEIR JOB

Buffalo - this was shortly after we'd acquired Harvin, and the CS were desperate to get him the ball. Geno was told to throw it to him, even if he was covered, which led to the INTs. Again, unnecessary interference from the sidelines

Now I've said before, I have no love for Geno, I'd rather see Fitz back, but if it's not Fitz I don't want us to bring in another journeyman vet - let Geno play, he knows the system better, let's prove once and for all if he has any hope or not. He has the coaching staff, the surrounding talent, no more excuses - show us what you've got. When your options are (a) uninspiring vet who'll be a game manager at best, or (b) boom or bust - I'll go with boom or bust. At least then there's a chance.

[ZachEY]

13 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

 

It's not remotely understandable. You are completely wrong about everything and don't seem to have the first clue what you're even watching. Sanchez blows the read and then blows the throw. It has nothing to do with the offensive coordinator and nothing to do with the play. All curls is a west coast staple and is part of every team's quick passing offense, largely for situations just like this one. The route depth is exactly where it's supposed to be, and not doing what you suggest is precisely why the play works. Vertical spacing isn't for converting third downs. The risk/reward decision between longer, tougher passes and shorter, easier ones is different when an unsuccessful play results in losing possession as well as the down. Here you want to spread them out horizontally and make them guard the whole line. Check. The reason the throw is short of the marker is that the defense knows where the line is too. See? There they are. The decreased likelihood of completing the pass in the first place without the cushion the play is designed to create outweighs the benefit of not having to pick up a yard after the catch is made. That's how it works in theory, anyway. In practice, Sanchez makes the wrong throw and makes it late. The read is even or odd coverage. Against cover-2 the seam is open, against cover-3 the flat is open. The outside linebacker is actually the read on the play, but here you can tell they're in cover-3 right at the snap because the cornerback at the bottom of the screen is already dropping off. Sanchez misses that, doesn't pick up his key, and throws it to the wrong guy, so the play is probably DOA right there, but just to make sure, he doesn't release the ball until the receiver is already out of his break. And yes, that is absolutely a first down if Sanchez doesn't just totally screw it up.

But, isn't it more likely that Schotty just doesn't know how first downs work?

[ZachEY]

7 hours ago, jetrider said:

It still wasn't a guaranteed first down. McKnight turned around and stopped two yards short and if the ball hit him that very nanosecond he still had work to do.

Tell us more about these guaranteed first downs...

[ZachEY]

10 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Masterful. 

 

I stopped responding to anything @Miss Lonelyhearts writes to me for about two years now. Everytime she quotes me its just something stupid and attention seeking. I purposely never respond.  Atleast she now knows what "Masterful" really looks like. And trust me, nothing masterful is ever in a game of Madden. That was the first damn mistake lol. 

As an aside, how did you know to respond with the phrasing "masterful" if you don't read his posts?

Unless the argument is in that you only don't read posts in response to you, but you read all the other ones...

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

Players loved Jerry Glanville too & he was a f*cking idiot!

 

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, jamesr said:

I agree that that Raiders game was a L whoever we had at QB ... I remember watching and thinking early on that we were toast. Oakland were carving us up when they had the ball, and it was always going to be a high score game, not the sort of thing we excelled at.

What still disappointed me about Geno's game was when we still his old tendencies coming out - running out of bounds for a loss, or taking a sack, instead of throwing the ball away. Yes, he had a good day statistically, but still showed the tendency for those boneheaded moments.

Going back to some other games that were mentioned :

Green Bay - I posted at the time how the CS clearly did not trust Geno, and were hovering over him rather than letting him play. That TO was embarrassing, and stemmed from Rex's lack of discipline on the sidelines - coordinators and players calling time outs when it's NOT THEIR JOB

Buffalo - this was shortly after we'd acquired Harvin, and the CS were desperate to get him the ball. Geno was told to throw it to him, even if he was covered, which led to the INTs. Again, unnecessary interference from the sidelines

Now I've said before, I have no love for Geno, I'd rather see Fitz back, but if it's not Fitz I don't want us to bring in another journeyman vet - let Geno play, he knows the system better, let's prove once and for all if he has any hope or not. He has the coaching staff, the surrounding talent, no more excuses - show us what you've got. When your options are (a) uninspiring vet who'll be a game manager at best, or (b) boom or bust - I'll go with boom or bust. At least then there's a chance.

Quarterbacks need reps. Once Geno was punched in the face he missed the entire preseason, could not even practice for a few weeks & started out with 3rd team reps. 2nd team reps when the season starts are highly decreased as the starter needs all of the reps to put the plays in. I don't think I'm saying anything other than how Macc & Bowles are looking at this situation. Fitz signs @ 7 million, he most likely will be the starter based on PROOF from last year he can succeed with Gailey & the players that surround him. If he doesn't acquiesce to the offer on the table Macc & Bowles are comfortable enough to go into the season with Geno & roll the dice that he's finally mature enough to handle the starting job. Geno makes stupid decisions under duress, but a lot of QBs do. What he has to show is that he's learned to throw the ball away when he can & stop taking stupid yardage losses when he doesn't have to & stop running with ball out like a loaf of bread. 

[77DRAFT]

18 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

This isnt the raiders game, but the packers game. However, if you projected his numbers from that Raiders game his stats would have been better than Fitz. 

 

Do me a favor, post those 40 plays and stop talking about it. post them right in this thread. 

 People who don't understand the game of football can not be reasoned with, this is GREAT thread and indicates you understand the game and  Get it,  this is quality writing and you have the talent to be a national beat writer, something I can't say about any national beat writers covering the Jets, Vick did worse than Geno 2 years ago, and then played well

for the Steelers, sometimes the system takes players down, see Rex Ryan, who actually made most of

the play calls his last year, until the last 4 games.

[Augustiniak]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

The bottom line is that Geno Smith has not been afforded the chance to 1- play with a competent group of professional offensive weapons (David Nelson, Stephen Hill, Clyde Gates, Greg Salas, Jeff Cumberland are all below average players, with most of them out of football, not because of age but lack of talent). On the other side of the ball Idzik let the entire secondary fall completely apart, forcing the new regime (Macc & Bowles) to have to go into the free agent market & sign Revis, Skrine & Gilchrist! How many teams sign 3 free agents in one area? 

Not getting off the field or giving up a lot of yards does 2 things to the offense. One, the offense spends to much time on the sidelines which affects getting into any rhythm & two, it continually changes field position where the Jets offense was continually starting backed up to their own goal posts & usually from a deficit. Anyone who says they are knowledgable in regards to this game can't possibly ignore these facts.

The type of offense that Geno was asked to run is the most complicated (west coast offense) and according to Steve Young takes AT LEAST 4 years to master, 4 YEARS! And that's only if the coaching staff remains the same & you have players around you who are also talented & smart enough to know what their job is on each play. With the decrease in actual practice time because of the CBA it's even harder to implement this type of offense.

Finally, Chan Gailey has a fantastic track record of simplifying offenses & has had success with other QBs with much less athletic talent than Geno Smith including Ryan Fitzpatrick. Our chances of a weak armed 33 year old QB leading us to the playoffs with our schedule is very small. I'd rather get Mo signed long term, put Geno in there & let's see if he can finally learn to protect the ball. My feeling is that when some of these elite players around him start making plays his confidence will soar & he will be a lot better QB than most Jet fans could imagine. It's just my opinion, of course I could be wrong, but I'd like to find out because no one on this board can definitively say what will happen until he gets the chance to take a snap & see Marshall, Decker, Enunwa, Forte as his supporting cast, surrounded by 3 players in the top 100. I'm supporting Geno because I'm a Jet fan & I also know that very few QBs in this league succeed immediately.

i agree with a lot of this.  but that doesn't mean he'd be a good nfl qb.  i think it means he'd be better than he was when he started.  

there are things about geno's game that i don't think he can fix.  he has a slow release, he never had a feel for pressure and his situational awareness was never good.  there are players like hackenberg who are just better at those things so they're starting out at a completely different point in development.  

there's an article with a link on rotoworld about how osweiler is having trouble learning o'brien's offense.  hackenberg learned it at 18.  some people learn faster than others.

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

As an aside, how did you know to respond with the phrasing "masterful" if you don't read his posts?

Unless the argument is in that you only don't read posts in response to you, but you read all the other ones...

If you go back you'll notice that I never said that "I dont read her/his posts". What I said was  "I dont respond to his/her posts". Thats not an argument at all...but the facts. Look below. 

 

11 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Masterful. 

 

I stopped responding to anything @Miss Lonelyhearts writes to me for about two years now. Everytime she quotes me its just something stupid and attention seeking. I purposely never respond.  Atleast she now knows what "Masterful" really looks like. And trust me, nothing masterful is ever in a game of Madden. That was the first damn mistake lol. 

The fact that I said "everytime she quotes me its just something stupid" shows that I read everytime she quotes me. I read the posts because Im notified of the posts, and when those posts are part of a conversation in a thread, my eyes tend to catch the indirect statements such as "masterful" that wasnt quoted directly too me, but was for the purpose of continuing with the douchery, which supports my position of never responding.

Some people claim not to like people's position here (not liking me for example), yet those same people always find a way to either respond to their comments or seek them out....pointing fingers etc. I dont do that. If I truly dont like a persons position or approach to me I can literally not respond to them. It's a big enough place right? However, after a couple years of his/hers continued effort to agitate, I just wanted to put it out there for the record the reason why I dont ever respond. In a way to simply say, "stop wasting your time". So thats the way I handled it. 

I read them only because I dont block people here on Jetnation, so ultimately I do see them. 

I remember back in the day when me and you used to bicker back and forth, however the reason why I always respond to you is because there are times that you respond to me by either showing support or agreement. Not 100% of the time with nonsense and quotes that you can see plain as day is only said to try to get a rise out of me. People like that I dont respect. 

 

[Jetster]

6 minutes ago, 77DRAFT said:

 People who don't understand the game of football can not be reasoned with, this is GREAT thread and indicates you understand the game and  Get it,  this is quality writing and you have the talent to be a national beat writer, something I can't say about any national beat writers covering the Jets, Vick did worse than Geno 2 years ago, and then played well

for the Steelers, sometimes the system takes players down, see Rex Ryan, who actually made most of

the play calls his last year, until the last 4 games.

This is a great point regarding Vick. Vick was absolutely HORRIFIC in our system & with the players we had on offense. It was f*cking UNWATCHABLE! Every single poster on Jetnation said "Vick is Done!".

Than he goes to a real organization & holds the fort while throwing to actual pro football players,lol. You can't make this sh*t up. Personally, I think when the talent pool slipped, Rex & Marty coasted knowing the jig was up & they were going to be exposed in the sense they have very little TEACHING ABILITY. Hand them a group of veterans & off they go but give them a group that truly needs to be coached up & they suck! Belichick can coach circles around those guys. The Jets succeeded in 2009 & 2010 because Rex was blessed with the BEST OFFENSIVE LINE IN FOOTBALL!  And he had maybe the best 2 years a CB has EVER put together in Revis. Just go back & look at the WRs Revis took out of those games BY HIMSELF with no help allowing Rex an extra defender to do with as he pleased.

[Villain The Foe]

27 minutes ago, 77DRAFT said:

 People who don't understand the game of football can not be reasoned with, this is GREAT thread and indicates you understand the game and  Get it,  this is quality writing and you have the talent to be a national beat writer, something I can't say about any national beat writers covering the Jets, Vick did worse than Geno 2 years ago, and then played well

for the Steelers, sometimes the system takes players down, see Rex Ryan, who actually made most of

the play calls his last year, until the last 4 games.

I really appreciate that. Thanks. 

[ZachEY]

33 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

If you go back you'll notice that I never said that "I dont read her/his posts". What I said was  "I dont respond to his/her posts". Thats not an argument at all...but the facts. Look below. 

 

The fact that I said "everytime she quotes me its just something stupid" shows that I read everytime she quotes me. I read the posts because Im notified of the posts, and when those posts are part of a conversation in a thread, my eyes tend to catch the indirect statements such as "masterful" that wasnt quoted directly too me, but was for the purpose of continuing with the douchery, which supports my position of never responding.

Some people claim not to like people's position here (not liking me for example), yet those same people always find a way to either respond to their comments or seek them out....pointing fingers etc. I dont do that. If I truly dont like a persons position or approach to me I can literally not respond to them. It's a big enough place right? However, after a couple years of his/hers continued effort to agitate, I just wanted to put it out there for the record the reason why I dont ever respond. In a way to simply say, "stop wasting your time". So thats the way I handled it. 

I read them only because I dont block people here on Jetnation, so ultimately I do see them. 

I remember back in the day when me and you used to bicker back and forth, however the reason why I always respond to you is because there are times that you respond to me by either showing support or agreement. Not 100% of the time with nonsense and quotes that you can see plain as day is only said to try to get a rise out of me. People like that I dont respect. 

 

Fair enough.

However, he's right and you're wrong regarding this specific play.