Final Word On Deflategate - NY Time

[PatsFanTX]

I hate participation trophies as much as I hate cheaters. I feel so conflicted right now.

A free buffet says you would take a Super Bowl trophy over a participation trophy any day of the week.

[drdetroit]

Does Brady have the same steroid dealer as Big Papi?

[PFSIKH]

I am utterly shocked the scientists did not trash their report.  Shocked!

 

[Larz]

remember when the chowds said the colts balls were consistent with the rules because.....because......what was the excuse again ?

[T0mShane]

46 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

 

 

Again, the only thing that matters in the NFL is wins and losses.

 

 

If you want sportsmanship, integrity, ethics and gamesmanship, saddle up your high white horse and ride down to a Pop Warner game and pick up your valuable participation trophy.

There is not one fan of the other 31 teams who would not sign up for a run like the Pats accomplished over the last 15 years.

 

Thats all fine and well. Just don't be upset in 15 years when you're in Hooters and the then-millenials are arguing over whether Drew Brees or Ben Roethlisberger was the best QB of this generation.

[T0mShane]

49 minutes ago, AFJF said:

There's no fair/objective viewpoint that would allow it to be any other way, nor should there be.  They're the blacksox of our era, except the sport has gotten too big for the league to take action and ban anyone or strip any false awards.  This is why they had to destroy the spygate tapes before anyone else saw them and tell all of us there was nothing to see.  

When you've got Bible-thumpin' Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk, without equivocation, saying the Pats cheated, that sticks. 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

 

Thats all fine and well. Just don't be upset in 15 years when you're in Hooters and the then-millenials are arguing over whether Drew Brees or Ben Roethlisberger was the best QB of this generation.

By 2031, Fitz will be in the conversation too, he is getting better, ya know 

"I'm getting better as a quarterback," Fitzpatrick said. "A lot of that is an understanding of the game, of myself, of who I'm playing against. So I think there's been a nice upward trend in my career of getting better as I get older…. This is the fifth year that I'm going into the year as a starter. So it's not like I've had a 12-year career where every year I've been the starter. There have been a lot of times when I've been the backup. So there's been a lot of growth in my career. I'm just excited for the opportunity this year, but I think I'm going to continue to get better." 

and the new * scam is a test for a photographic memory, Garoppolo and Brissett can memorize defensive signals without film. Only 1% of the population has this ability and the Pats found a way to test for it before or during the draft

[ljr]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

When you've got Bible-thumpin' Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk, without equivocation, saying the Pats cheated, that sticks. 

There was no chance the Pats D didn't know what was coming ahead of time in that Super Bowl.

blew my mind.

my buddy had me give money along with his own money & he threw it all down on the Pats

to this day the most bitter-sweet money I ever won

every single time the NE defense needed something they just happened to be in the exactly correct play call & their players would go to the exactly correct spot 

Even raking that money in I was like .... Noooo wayyyy ... There is no chance that this many things are going exactly the right way for NE

[Jet Fan RI]

3 hours ago, AFJF said:

There's no fair/objective viewpoint that would allow it to be any other way, nor should there be.  They're the blacksox of our era, except the sport has gotten too big for the league to take action and ban anyone or strip any false awards.  This is why they had to destroy the spygate tapes before anyone else saw them and tell all of us there was nothing to see.  

Right. Brady should have gotten between 1 year and a lifetime ban. But that would not be good for business.

[Larz]

28 minutes ago, ljr said:

There was no chance the Pats D didn't know what was coming ahead of time in that Super Bowl.

blew my mind.

my buddy had me give money along with his own money & he threw it all down on the Pats

to this day the most bitter-sweet money I ever won

every single time the NE defense needed something they just happened to be in the exactly correct play call & their players would go to the exactly correct spot 

Even raking that money in I was like .... Noooo wayyyy ... There is no chance that this many things are going exactly the right way for NE

martz said they had a play they saved all year, never ran it once but did go over it in the walkthrough.  he was blown away the past* were ready for it when they ran it

that's just good coaching, doesn't impact the outcome, and everybody does it, lol

[Jet Fan RI]

2 hours ago, PFSIKH said:

I am utterly shocked the scientists did not trash their report.  Shocked!

 

Why trash a report that is a solid piece of work? In case you did not get the word, the definitive results are in the section on game day simulations. The two summary graphs there show definitively the deflations could not have been due to natural causes. Not a single critic of the Exponent work addressed the results shown in those 2 definitive graphs.

[The Crusher]

37 minutes ago, ljr said:

There was no chance the Pats D didn't know what was coming ahead of time in that Super Bowl.

blew my mind.

my buddy had me give money along with his own money & he threw it all down on the Pats

to this day the most bitter-sweet money I ever won

every single time the NE defense needed something they just happened to be in the exactly correct play call & their players would go to the exactly correct spot 

Even raking that money in I was like .... Noooo wayyyy ... There is no chance that this many things are going exactly the right way for NE

Genius

[AFCEastFan]

2 hours ago, ljr said:

There was no chance the Pats D didn't know what was coming ahead of time in that Super Bowl.

blew my mind.

my buddy had me give money along with his own money & he threw it all down on the Pats

to this day the most bitter-sweet money I ever won

every single time the NE defense needed something they just happened to be in the exactly correct play call & their players would go to the exactly correct spot 

Even raking that money in I was like .... Noooo wayyyy ... There is no chance that this many things are going exactly the right way for NE

As much as Mike Martz likes to think that he is the Fonz (or whoever Henry Winkler was playing in the Waterboy) and Bill Belichick is the Red Beaulieu that stole his magic playbook, the biggest reason that the Patriots won that Super Bowl in my opinion is that the Patriots committed numerous hard defensive fouls throughout the game that would have been blatant 15-yard penalties in today's NFL (and, at least some of them, in the 2001 NFL as well).  

They broke Isaac Bruce's ribs on the first series and he spent the rest of the game trying to avoid contact instead of focusing on things like running routes and catching passes.  They were hitting Rams skill position players all game whether or not they had the ball and whether or not they were involved in the play.  Mike Vrabel gave Warner a blatant head shot that led directly to a pick-6.  Warner was later concussed by Willie McGinest.   Etc. Etc. 

[Jared]

13 hours ago, Jet Fan RI said:

Yep. From the moment I read the original technical report, I knew the work was solid. The objections from New Englanders were all smoke and mirrors.

Gave up reading the rest of the thread.

My only response: basically every reputable scientist who looked at Exponent's report tore it to shreds.  Exponent exists solely to manufacture data for businesses who already know the result they want to reach, usually for use in litigation (or propaganda).

Even if you never took middle school science classes, and knew nothing about football, knowing the source of the data alone should be concerning.

[Smashmouth]

17 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

Come on junc, the Pats are the only team to try and gain a competitive advantage in the history of the NFL.

funny they are always the ones getting caught, So there's that

[ljr]

7 hours ago, AFCEastFan said:

As much as Mike Martz likes to think that he is the Fonz (or whoever Henry Winkler was playing in the Waterboy) and Bill Belichick is the Red Beaulieu that stole his magic playbook, the biggest reason that the Patriots won that Super Bowl in my opinion is that the Patriots committed numerous hard defensive fouls throughout the game that would have been blatant 15-yard penalties in today's NFL (and, at least some of them, in the 2001 NFL as well).  

They broke Isaac Bruce's ribs on the first series and he spent the rest of the game trying to avoid contact instead of focusing on things like running routes and catching passes.  They were hitting Rams skill position players all game whether or not they had the ball and whether or not they were involved in the play.  Mike Vrabel gave Warner a blatant head shot that led directly to a pick-6.  Warner was later concussed by Willie McGinest.   Etc. Etc. 

Lol @ Waterboy reference

All of those may have happened too ... They were not the biggest reason though

[EM31]

8 hours ago, AFCEastFan said:

As much as Mike Martz likes to think that he is the Fonz (or whoever Henry Winkler was playing in the Waterboy) and Bill Belichick is the Red Beaulieu that stole his magic playbook, the biggest reason that the Patriots won that Super Bowl in my opinion is that the Patriots committed numerous hard defensive fouls throughout the game that would have been blatant 15-yard penalties in today's NFL (and, at least some of them, in the 2001 NFL as well).  

They broke Isaac Bruce's ribs on the first series and he spent the rest of the game trying to avoid contact instead of focusing on things like running routes and catching passes.  They were hitting Rams skill position players all game whether or not they had the ball and whether or not they were involved in the play.  Mike Vrabel gave Warner a blatant head shot that led directly to a pick-6.  Warner was later concussed by Willie McGinest.   Etc. Etc. 

You are inadvertently making a bigger and more damning point against your own team with your argument here.

If the defense knows what is coming then that gives them the opportunity to set up defensive play calls which end up with a big hit. Possibly even game-changing or career-ending hits.  Like telling a hitter what pitch is coming (Bull Durham).  The fact that you suggest such hits were taking place early ion the game and point to those as being difference makers in the outcome here is actually very supportive of the idea that the Pats already knew what was coming ahead of time.

...or maybe Pats defenders all put on 20 lbs each and miraculously all got faster just for this game so that they could "out-physical" the other team and lay bigger hits upon them.

...or they cheated and they knew what plays were coming.

Which one of these I wonder is less offensive to one's sense of rational probability? 

Which team has a record akin to that of an organized crime family in this respect?

At what point does any denial out of the mouth of anyone from the Pats organization earn automatic disbelief of the audience simply because of their track record of being all around dirtbags and serial lairs about their own cheating?

Good questions all.

[PatsFanTX]

 

Thats all fine and well. Just don't be upset in 15 years when you're in Hooters and the then-millenials are arguing over whether Drew Brees or Ben Roethlisberger was the best QB of this generation.

Will those then-mellenials still be living with mommy and daddy?

[AFCEastFan]

16 minutes ago, EM31 said:

You are inadvertently making a bigger and more damning point against your own team with your argument here.

If the defense knows what is coming then that gives them the opportunity to set up defensive play calls which end up with a big hit. Possibly even game-changing or career-ending hits.  Like telling a hitter what pitch is coming (Bull Durham).  The fact that you suggest such hits were taking place early ion the game and point to those as being difference makers in the outcome here is actually very supportive of the idea that the Pats already knew what was coming ahead of time.

...or maybe Pats defenders all put on 20 lbs each and miraculously all got faster just for this game so that they could "out-physical" the other team and lay bigger hits upon them.

...or they cheated and they knew what plays were coming.

Which one of these I wonder is less offensive to one's sense of rational probability? 

Which team has a record akin to that of an organized crime family in this respect?

At what point does any denial out of the mouth of anyone from the Pats organization earn automatic disbelief of the audience simply because of their track record of being all around dirtbags and serial lairs about their own cheating?

Good questions all.

. . . or maybe Mike Martz was wrong for having the hubris to believe any play that comes out of his head is guaranteed to gain 50 yards solely because the opposing team has never before borne witness to that particular slice of his genius.

. . . or maybe the Rams walked into the game expecting a coronation (Ricky Proehl right before the game "tonight, a dynasty is born" -- oh, the ironing) and lost their competitive drive when they were getting hit hard even if the play was not coming their way.

If the Patriots "knew what plays were coming", how did Kurt Warner manage to pass for 350+ yards? 

If the Patriots "knew what plays were coming", how did Marshall Faulk manage to run for nearly 5 yards a pop and go over 125 yards rushing and receiving? 

If the Patriots "knew what plays were coming", how did the Rams manage to tie the game from a 14-point deficit?

At what point does the butthurt of a team that choked away a Super Bowl to a 14-point dog replace the reality of what actually happened during the game?

Good questions all.  

[The Crusher]

3 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

funny they are always the ones getting caught, So there's that

OMG.  Have you ever read any of ghost_in_maxipads post? Ever?  Those are all trumped up charges from Jet fans, Roger Goodell, the other owners and specifically every single poster on this board to bring down the mighty Patriot Dynasty.  

[EM31]

Mods.

Can we have a sticky for the Aaron Hernandez trial in February?  Possibly set up a streaming simulcast.

I wonder if Bill Belichick actually gave the order to Aaron or if he was only passively aware that business was being "taken care of"  

[Big Blocker]

15 hours ago, PatsFanTX said:

 

 

So in the present tense, you somehow think Fitz will magically start beating winning teams, even though he has a .171 career winning percentage against such teams?

 

That's the equivalent of the Washington Generals running off a 10 game winning streak against the Trotters.

 

Good luck with that.

Why is this clown not called on a thread derailment?  What does Fitzpatrick's being on teams with this or that winning percentage in certain situations have to do with THE FACT that the Pats are serial cheaters?

The answer of course is nothing.  The clown in question is a contrarian who craves negative attention.  I suggest posters here not give it to him.  You are both enabling his peculiar dysfunction and also helping him clutter up these boards with an endless supply of fecal matter.

[Bruce Harper]

23 hours ago, Dcat said:

Of course Brady had those balls illicitly deflated.  Everyone knows that including Pats fans.  The entire denial has been a farce all along.  

Well after week 4, it's finally over.  Brady cheated. Brady then lied about it and destroyed evidence.  Case closed.  Until the next time the Patriots cheat... or should I say.... until they get caught cheating yet again.

And Seattle has the early lead this season in the cheating sweepstakes this year so Belicheat won't let that go unchallenged.

[EM31]

2 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Why is this clown not called on a thread derailment?  What does Fitzpatrick's being on teams with this or that winning percentage in certain situations have to do with THE FACT that the Pats are serial cheaters?

The answer of course is nothing.  The clown in question is a contrarian who craves negative attention.  I suggest posters here not give it to him.  You are both enabling his peculiar dysfunction and also helping him clutter up these boards with an endless supply of fecal matter.

Learning to deal with TX is a bit of an IQ test here.  If someone cannot figure it out (not you) then it reflects more on that someone than it does on him.

 

[Jet Nut]

19 hours ago, ghost_in_pads02 said:

And it was a witch hunt on Brady because it should of just been a fine for equipment tempering, but the owners wanted more cause they were tired of the Pats winning and supposedly getting away w everything. 

 

Meanwhile seattle gets caught for the 3rd time violating NFL policy. Im sure we can go around the league and find other franchises doing sh*t but naaaaaa...its only fun to b*tch about one particular team.

 

37 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

OMG.  Have you ever read any of ghost_in_maxipads post? Ever?  Those are all trumped up charges from Jet fans, Roger Goodell, the other owners and specifically every single poster on this board to bring down the mighty Patriot Dynasty.  

Just tired of the Pats winning.  A witch hunt, lol

[The Crusher]

24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 

Just tired of the Pats winning.  A witch hunt, lol

You too huh?  LoL

[Jet Nut]

Just now, The Crusher said:

You too huh?  LoL

Goodell, jealous fans, judges, politicians, the whole friggen world has it out for poor Tammy and his Pats.  

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, AFCEastFan said:

If the Patriots "knew what plays were coming", how did Kurt Warner manage to pass for 350+ yards? 

If the Patriots "knew what plays were coming", how did Marshall Faulk manage to run for nearly 5 yards a pop and go over 125 yards rushing and receiving? 

If the Patriots "knew what plays were coming", how did the Rams manage to tie the game from a 14-point deficit?

At what point does the butthurt of a team that choked away a Super Bowl to a 14-point dog replace the reality of what actually happened during the game?

Good questions all.  

Serious questions that imply answers to your questions:

Why does it have to be that the pats had to absolutely stomp them out to prove that they cheated? Couldn't it simply be that cheating gave them just enough of a competitive edge to beat a team that was statistically significantly better and far more experienced than the patriots that season?

Even if spygate did give them more than just a competitive edge and literally gave them everything they needed to win, do you genuinely think belichick would be stupid enough to employ it and straight up demolish a team that they were 14 point underdogs against on the biggest stage?

That would be like the dumb kid in class copying every single answer off of the smart kid, instead of just enough to reasonably pass without making it obvious that he cheated his way through it. 

Why can't it be that the team favored to win by 14 is butthurt for choking away the game, but also is butthurt because they know there was something more to it than just legit football? The two are not mutually exclusive. 

[Kleckineau]

49 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Why is this clown not called on a thread derailment?  What does Fitzpatrick's being on teams with this or that winning percentage in certain situations have to do with THE FACT that the Pats are serial cheaters?

The answer of course is nothing.  The clown in question is a contrarian who craves negative attention.  I suggest posters here not give it to him.  You are both enabling his peculiar dysfunction and also helping him clutter up these boards with an endless supply of fecal matter.

Conspiracy theory.....lots of clicks generated?...maybe a mods alter ego??

At the very least he's nothing but a fluffer keeping the other trolls stiff.

Who cares.

[EM31]

1 hour ago, AFCEastFan said:

. . . or maybe Mike Martz was wrong for having the hubris to believe any play that comes out of his head is guaranteed to gain 50 yards solely because the opposing team has never before borne witness to that particular slice of his genius.

. . . or maybe the Rams walked into the game expecting a coronation (Ricky Proehl right before the game "tonight, a dynasty is born" -- oh, the ironing) and lost their competitive drive when they were getting hit hard even if the play was not coming their way.

If the Patriots "knew what plays were coming", how did Kurt Warner manage to pass for 350+ yards? 

If the Patriots "knew what plays were coming", how did Marshall Faulk manage to run for nearly 5 yards a pop and go over 125 yards rushing and receiving? 

If the Patriots "knew what plays were coming", how did the Rams manage to tie the game from a 14-point deficit?

At what point does the butthurt of a team that choked away a Super Bowl to a 14-point dog replace the reality of what actually happened during the game?

Good questions all.  

The answer to all of those questions was because the Rams were the better team.  The better team by far talent-wise and the only way the Patriots could even up the scale was to cheat.  The only thing stopping the Patriots from cheating was their own code of ethics, which once again proved to be insufficient.

[Jet Fan RI]

9 hours ago, Jared said:

Gave up reading the rest of the thread.

My only response: basically every reputable scientist who looked at Exponent's report tore it to shreds.  Exponent exists solely to manufacture data for businesses who already know the result they want to reach, usually for use in litigation (or propaganda).

Even if you never took middle school science classes, and knew nothing about football, knowing the source of the data alone should be concerning.

I think you mean every scientist in New England. In fact, it is the data in the game day simulation section of the technical report that definitively demonstrates deflation of the Pat balls in excess of natural causes. The results of that section are summarized in two graphs that present the data, both the Exponent experiment data and the officials game-day data. Not a single one of the "reputable" scientists you mention addressed the data presented in those two graphs. Every report I saw that supposedly "tore Exponent's report" to shreds latched onto one tiny aspect of the report, or another and made invalid points about it.

And bud, I not only took middle school science. I have a Ph.D. in physics. 

[AFCEastFan]

38 minutes ago, Jet Fan RI said:

I think you mean every scientist in New England. In fact, it is the data in the game day simulation section of the technical report that definitively demonstrates deflation of the Pat balls in excess of natural causes. The results of that section are summarized in two graphs that present the data, both the Exponent experiment data and the officials game-day data. Not a single one of the "reputable" scientists you mention addressed the data presented in those two graphs. Every report I saw that supposedly "tore Exponent's report" to shreds latched onto one tiny aspect of the report, or another and made invalid points about it.

And bud, I not only took middle school science. I have a Ph.D. in physics. 

This is 100% correct, as you have explained to me previously.  The only person I have ever seen challenge those data is a guy on reddit, who certainly was not a reputable scientist.  If Jared would like to dig up that reddit thread and start building some sort of challenge to the data, have at it.  But to suggest that any scientist of any repute has challenged the core data in those two graphs is demonstrably false.  

[AzogtheDefiler]

NYT is so biased against Trump. Is that because Trump and Brady are friends?

[AFCEastFan]

1 hour ago, EM31 said:

The answer to all of those questions was because the Rams were the better team.  The better team by far talent-wise and the only way the Patriots could even up the scale was to cheat.  The only thing stopping the Patriots from cheating was their own code of ethics, which once again proved to be insufficient.

Wish you had posted this in 2008.  For years I had been laboring under the mistaken assumption that the Patriots blew their chance at a 19-0 season because the Giants just completely outplayed them.  Now I know that that was impossible and the Giants must have cheated.  Not surprising, given that team's reputation for faking injuries to gain a competitive advantage during games -- who knows what else they must have done to gain a competitive advantage against a far superior team?     

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, AFCEastFan said:

Wish you had posted this in 2008.  For years I had been laboring under the mistaken assumption that the Patriots blew their chance at a 19-0 season because the Giants just completely outplayed them.  Now I know that that was impossible and the Giants must have cheated.  Not surprising, given that team's reputation for faking injuries to gain a competitive advantage during games -- who knows what else they must have done to gain a competitive advantage against a far superior team?     

where do you think BB learned how to cheat?  it was w/ the Giants.