Only one thing will prevent Jets from playing Christian Hackenberg -- fear

[Scott Dierking]

16 minutes ago, jets rooter said:

Lets be realistic.the jets must have seen something good before they drafted him.all these comments about his inability to complete a pass is nonsense.we will find out if he is the real deal next season.

There is A LOT that is good with Hack. If you were to build prototypical athletic skills in a qb, he would be the poster boy for that (except for foot speed). 

But as we all know, that is not what makes a qb alone. There is the head, the mechanics and feel for the game that complete the package. No small components.

A project as a second rd pick is not a great gamble. But the kid and the team deserve to see, at the appropriate time whether the gamble pays off.

That some are making pronouncements based on camp or a pre-season action are laughable, as we can assume that was the time that he was at the rudimentary stages of learning new skill sets and mechanics. Try evaluating a pitcher in his first start as he switches from left hand tossing, after he has thrown with the right hand all his life. the results are not pretty. Over hyperbole, I understand.

I get it that there is impatience of a fanbase and the what to make knee jerk pronouncements. But some of those pronouncements are laughable, based on a small fraction of what they have seen. 

Very premature.

[RSJ]

20 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I was very encouraged by the Brett Kollman review of Hack.  That plus everyone is convinced he's a bust before he's had a chance.  I'm still holding out hope that Hack is the guy.

I am too. I liked Hack as a second round pick before the draft. You can't teach what Hack has in raw ability and size. 

[Matt39]

Just now, RSJ said:

I am too. I liked Hack as a second round pick before the draft. You can't teach what Hack has in raw ability and size. 

Define raw ability.

[Beerfish]

10 Can't judge Hack because we have not seen him!

20 Can't play Hack because it will destroy his confidence!

30 Goto10

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Define raw ability.

The arm is big

[RSJ]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Define raw ability.

The ability to drop a ball in a bucket 60 yards downfield with the flick of his wrist. If you were to build the perfect QB physically, Hack would be it. Those guys come along once every 10 years. Some end up being Drew Bledsoe and some end up being Andrew Luck.

[Matt39]

Just now, RSJ said:

The ability to drop a ball in a bucket 60 yards downfield with the flick of his wrist. If you were to build the perfect QB physically, Hack would be it. Those guys come along once every 10 years. Some end up being Drew Bledsoe and some end up being Andrew Luck.

No he would not be it lol. The kid struggled to throw a spiral in college. 

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Matt39 said:

No he would not be it lol. The kid struggled to throw a spiral in college. 

That is not true, but ok. 

[Matt39]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

That is not true, but ok. 

Watched him plenty. He's got tiny hands...bad throws, poor accuracy.

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

10 Can't judge Hack because we have not seen him!

20 Can't play Hack because it will destroy his confidence!

30 Goto10

Object oriented programming.  Learn it.  Know it.  Live it.

[RSJ]

7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

No he would not be it lol. The kid struggled to throw a spiral in college. 

 

Like Dierking said, I am not here to convince you that he will be great. He definitely has all the tools though.Saying that he had trouble throwing spirals tells me you didn't watch him much, if at all in college. I think you should also  go back and read some articles on Testeverde after his 6 int game against Penn State or during his time with the Bucs. Hack has footwork issues. This was stated many times by scouts. Vinny actually had the same issues. Vinny also was a once every 10 years QB skill wise.

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Watched him plenty. He's got tiny hands...bad throws, poor accuracy.

Watch him from his freshman year, to his sophomore year. What do you see as the difference?

I will tell you, it is his feet. It started as he was taking the snap. I don't know if it was Donovan, or whoo it was at PSU as O'Brien left, but they played with him.Taught him wrong mechanics. And it all started with the feet.

And that is where you develop the habits you mention above. Mechanics are everything. 

[RSJ]

Hacks first drive against the Giants was great. Thats because it was a very scripted and controlled set of plays. Vinny had the same thing. If Vinny rolled out Parcells and BB made Vinny throw it away. This is because Vinny's footwork, like Hacks got all out of wack when he was made to move in the pocket. I think you will see Hack for about a quarter this weekend. I think you will see a very scripted set of plays where if it's not there he throws it away. I also think he will play great. Bledsoe is another example of a player with bad footwork btw.

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Watch him from his freshman year, to his sophomore year. What do you see as the difference?

I will tell you, it is his feet. It started as he was taking the snap. I don't know if it was Donovan, or whoo it was at PSU as O'Brien left, but they played with him.Taught him wrong mechanics. And it all started with the feet.

And that is where you develop the habits you mention above. Mechanics are everything. 

It shouldnt be up to the team who's paying him to teach him mechanics at this point. It's either he has them or he doesnt. If he's this far behind  the likelihood of it every coming together is basically zero. His adjusted completion percentage was like 50% his last year at PSU...I mean...

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Matt39 said:

It shouldnt be up to the team who's paying him to teach him mechanics at this point. It's either he has them or he doesnt. If he's this far behind at  the likelihood of it every coming together is basically zero. 

Not sure if you are just skimming posts, or are hard headed.

PSU changed Hack's mechanics after O'Brien left. I was screaming about it at the time. He was flat on his feet. He led with the wrong foot, at times even.

If you watch the Pinstripe Bowl video I posted, he actually did a better job there. 

And yes, pro coaches are there to teach mechanics. Happens all the time.  Whether it works for him, I can't say.

[Sperm Edwards]

25 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

10 Can't judge Hack because we have not seen him!

20 Can't play Hack because it will destroy his confidence!

30 Goto10

Seems pretty BASIC to me.

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Or you can remember the preseason, when he completed 11 of 31 passes for 54 yards and a pick 6 against guys who are pumping gas now.

or the reports from last week that having a catch has become difficult for him.

Yes the preseason where stats are the be all and end all for judging a player.

[Matt39]

8 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Not sure if you are just skimming posts, or are hard headed.

PSU changed Hack's mechanics after O'Brien left. I was screaming about it at the time. He was flat on his feet. He led with the wrong foot, at times even.

If you watch the Pinstripe Bowl video I posted, he actually did a better job there. 

And yes, pro coaches are there to teach mechanics. Happens all the time.  Whether it works for him, I can't say.

Not being hard headed. This is just a lot of work for a guy who was drafted pretty high, especially when you consider what Prescott is doing. It's not Hackenberg's fault either....Maccagnan drafting him there was beyond absurd.

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, 56mehl56 said:

Yes the preseason where stats are the be all and end all for judging a player.

They are important, you can see potential very quickly even in pre season.  You could see that Prescott looked a lot better than his draft status in his 1st ex game.  You could see that hack looked worse than his draft status in his ex game.

No worries though he will not take a snap this season and very likely will not take a snap next season (Next year will be used to 'fix his mechanics')

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Matt39 said:

Not being hard headed. This is just a lot of work for a guy who was drafted pretty high, especially when you consider what Prescott is doing. It's not Hackenberg's fault either....Maccagnan drafting him there was beyond absurd.

I agree. But none of us can judge him based on where he was drafted. He had nothing to do with that.

I understand the want to see him. I have the same. But I will (somewhat reluctantly) trust the people who see him on a daily basis. If the Macc and Bowles are resting their carers on him, so be it. That is on them. They have made that bed.

[56mehl56]

2 hours ago, Pcola said:

Fear that ownership will realize that they totally screwed up.  Or maybe because Woody forced the pick on them and they are making a point.

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds.  Woody forced them to pick Hackenberg, did he like his first name Christian ?? DId he feel sorry for him because he played at PSU ??  And finally  yes the coaches are not playing him because the owner who pays their checks is forcing him on them and they want to teach mean ol Woody a lesson .

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Not being hard headed. This is just a lot of work for a guy who was drafted pretty high, especially when you consider what Prescott is doing. It's not Hackenberg's fault either....Maccagnan drafting him there was beyond absurd.

You don't even have to use prescott here,  (The best case scenario)  Quite a few other guys drafted lower at least their teams have seen and been able to get some evaluation on.

The laughable thing is that this year is his 'red shirt' year and the jets have done nothing to work on his mechanics.  Just laughable,

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

You don't even have to use prescott here,  (The best case scenario)  Quite a few other guys drafted lower at least their teams have seen and been able to get some evaluation on.

The laughable thing is that this year is his 'red shirt' year and the jets have done nothing to work on his mechanics.  Just laughable,

This

[Scott Dierking]

Oh, and I was the guy that wanted to keep Jeff Blake with the Jets

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I agree. But none of us can judge him based on where he was drafted. He had nothing to do with that.

Until we see him again on the filed, all we have to judge him is where he was drafted and little refund he is providing on that investment.

Quote

I understand the want to see him. I have the same. But I will (somewhat reluctantly) trust the people who see him on a daily basis.

The same people who appear to have proven their inadequacy at QB evaluation in the last two years.

Quote

If the Macc and Bowles are resting their carers on him, so be it. That is on them. They have made that bed.

And part of that is a general questioning over why a 2nd round pick QB is utterly incapable of playing a single garbage-time game late in his first season.

It begs the question of value and competency, both Macc's and Hack's.

Lets be clear, the problem is not fans wanting to see Hack start this week, the problem is WHY Hack is so far (it seems) from being able to start this week.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

This

 

1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

You don't even have to use prescott here,  (The best case scenario)  Quite a few other guys drafted lower at least their teams have seen and been able to get some evaluation on.

The laughable thing is that this year is his 'red shirt' year and the jets have done nothing to work on his mechanics.  Just laughable,

Wait, who said the Jets have not worked are are not working on his mechanics? Did I miss this

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Warfish said:

Until we see him again on the filed, all we have to judge him is where he was drafted and little refund he is providing on that investment.

The same people who appear to have proven their inadequacy at QB evaluation in the last two years.

And part of that is a general questioning over why a 2nd round pick QB is utterly incapable of playing a single garbage-time game late in his first season.

It begs the question of value and competency, both Macc's and Hack's.

A player does not control where they were drafted. That is on the regime. 

I have no idea whether Hack would want to be in the game this weekend. I would hope so.

[Jack Straw]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

You don't even have to use prescott here,  (The best case scenario)  Quite a few other guys drafted lower at least their teams have seen and been able to get some evaluation on.

The laughable thing is that this year is his 'red shirt' year and the jets have done nothing to work on his mechanics.  Just laughable,

Gailey was just quoted that it would take "thousand of passes in the offseason to correct his mechanics." News flash, you've had 8 months to these mechanics corrected - why are they waiting a whole year before getting started? The NYJ are a joke.

[Maxman]

3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Sidelines are more narrow I believe, in the NFL. Maybe he is claustrophobic. And, where I saw him was Yankee Stadium, so maybe it was not a good place to judge warm-ups.

Always have to blame the Yankeesess. Lol.

[56mehl56]

6 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Not being hard headed. This is just a lot of work for a guy who was drafted pretty high, especially when you consider what Prescott is doing. It's not Hackenberg's fault either....Maccagnan drafting him there was beyond absurd.

If he develops into a quality starting NFL QB, no it doesn't.  

[Beerfish]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This

This to me is a huge issue with the jets to be honest a disconnect between the gm and the coaching staff.  I'm sure the gm would have preferred if his 2nd round qb got some dedicated coaching in his 1st year if he was going to sit out all year.

[Matt39]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

You don't even have to use prescott here,  (The best case scenario)  Quite a few other guys drafted lower at least their teams have seen and been able to get some evaluation on.

The laughable thing is that this year is his 'red shirt' year and the jets have done nothing to work on his mechanics.  Just laughable,

That's the thing. Carrying 4 QB's to begin with was crazy. There's no time to develop QB's anymore with the new CBA...drafting someone who was that far behind was puzzling to say the least. IF Hackenberg doesnt improve on his own he's screwed.

[Jack Straw]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

 

Wait, who said the Jets have not worked are are not working on his mechanics? Did I miss this

Gailey stated that they wouldn't fix him until the offseason and that it was "too difficult to do in-season with so much going on." If that's the case, then don't draft the kid.

[56mehl56]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

They are important, you can see potential very quickly even in pre season.  You could see that Prescott looked a lot better than his draft status in his 1st ex game.  You could see that hack looked worse than his draft status in his ex game.

No worries though he will not take a snap this season and very likely will not take a snap next season (Next year will be used to 'fix his mechanics')

I don't even know how to respond to this , so I respectfully won't.

[Pcola]

4 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds.  Woody forced them to pick Hackenberg, did he like his first name Christian ?? DId he feel sorry for him because he played at PSU ??  And finally  yes the coaches are not playing him because the owner who pays their checks is forcing him on them and they want to teach mean ol Woody a lesson .

Woody is in on most of the decisions.  Woody was the reason we signed Tebow and Plaxico Burgess.  Woody was present and met with the QB prospects.

You are being naive if you think otherwise.

So either Woody has too much influence on our QB decisions or Macc can't draft QBs.  Probably both.