Looking at Macc's 2 drafts.

[NoBowles]

1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

The results have actually been pretty ******* far from okay, but it almost doesn't matter. The real way to judge drafts is to look at process rather than results, and by that criterion, Maccagnan has been several orders of magnitude worse than Idzik.

how do you grade the "process" that Idzik had when he passed up on 3 franchise QB's for Geno Smith? Was that an A process? Please with this nonsense.

[thadude]

1 minute ago, NoBowles said:

When Maccagnan passes on 3 franchise QB's in one draft because he has Geno ******* Smith, we can talk about him approaching Idzik level of incompetent **** up, until then, Maccagnan is a fire cracker while Idzik is a nuclear bomb. 

Who were the franchise qb's Idzik passed on?  Carr I'll give you but Bridgewater was just ok before his leg fell off.

 

And I'm not defending Idzik he was the GM-version of Bowles

[NoBowles]

1 minute ago, thadude said:

Who were the franchise qb's Idzik passed on?  Carr I'll give you but Bridgewater was just ok before his leg fell off.

 

And I'm not defending Idzik he was the GM-version of Bowles

Carr, Bridgewater and Garrapolo

[dbatesman]

2 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

When Maccagnan passes on 3 franchise QB's in one draft because he has Geno ******* Smith, we can talk about him approaching Idzik level of incompetent **** up, until then, Maccagnan is a fire cracker while Idzik is a nuclear bomb. 

Point well taken. I'll amend my comment to their process sucks equally.

[NoBowles]

Just now, dbatesman said:

Point well taken. I'll amend my comment to their process sucks equally.

Fair enough

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

how do you grade the "process" that Idzik had when he passed up on 3 franchise QB's for Geno Smith? Was that an A process? Please with this nonsense.

Or every good receiver in the best WR draft in history.

[Integrity28]

Just now, dbatesman said:

Point well taken. I'll amend my comment to their process sucks equally.

Process doesn't do sh*t. If you find a QB, you're a genius. If not, you're just a guy sitting on the spectrum between hated and tolerated.

[NoBowles]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Or every good receiver in the best WR draft in history.

Its amazing how much time we spend arguing over Geno Smith, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Bowles, Maccagnan, Marshall, etc. If Idzik took one of those 3 QB's and hit on 2 of those WR's, we would be loving life right now.

[Pcola]

There is a good reason Macc was on the hot seat and it wasn't known if he was going to keep his job until the meaningless win over Buf.

They should have purged the roster of all of Rex's guys as soon as they came in.  The locker room cancer blame is always on the HC, but the FAs he brought in to very high contracts did not take a leadership role on this team and prevent that in fighting from deteriorating the culture of the team.

Thats on Macc.  And two drafts, one starter and several #3 WRs, and 2 average LBs.  

For a #1 pick, Lee so far is a D.  

Until proven otherwise, both 2nd round picks (Smith and Hack) are Fs.

Third rounders Mauldin (C at best so far) and Jenkins (B but did not even play up to what Pace did the year before) potentially could be players but Mauldin's time is running out.

Fourth rounders I like.  Petty never had a chance but Burris looks like he can be a #2 corner.

He has a lot of success with the cheap late round pick ups but has failed to find blue chip players to build the team around, which the owner is writing big checks to.  Leonard Williams dropped into our laps but we haven't found any other game changers, not one young star to build around.

[dbatesman]

17 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Process doesn't do sh*t. If you find a QB, you're a genius. If not, you're just a guy sitting on the spectrum between hated and tolerated.

Cool

[ZachEY]

47 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I disagree with that. More potential on the roster then in 2014.

I could also say that two years ago we were 4-12. This year we are 5-11. So technically, yes we are better

Of course you disagree.  I'll reconsider the grade/outlook when someone who's, you know, not you - disagrees.

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Bottom line is I don't penalize Macc for:

1.Hindsight criticism. It's a philosophy of mine. If you voted for Trump, you have no right to criticize him because you could have chosen somebody else.

It's hard to express how absurdly stupid this "philosophy of yours" is.

[Maxman]

I don't think Devin Smith is going to be on the team next year. He was on the field a lot on Sunday and nothing. A whole lot of nothing.

He has to come back, prove that he is recovered from the injury and that he has great hands.

[JetsFanatic]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

I don't think Devin Smith is going to be on the team next year. He was on the field a lot on Sunday and nothing. A whole lot of nothing.

He has to come back, prove that he is recovered from the injury and that he has great hands.

It may take a full year to comeback form the injury he had.  The Jets have some nice young receivers and I think Devin Smith is going to have to have a strong 2017 pre-season to make the team.

[Jetster]

2 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

It may take a full year to comeback form the injury he had.  The Jets have some nice young receivers and I think Devin Smith is going to have to have a strong 2017 pre-season to make the team.

Devin Smith needs another training camp, it's very difficult getting hurt & not practicing. 2017 camp is his last chance & we have a lot of competition. If this kid has any competitive spirit left, he better bring it our next training camp.

[robinjohnson525]

Everybody forgets Brandon Marshall for a fifth round, Fitzpatrick for a six he filled in well the first year and was only suppose to be a back up. How can you knock that. He picked up forte for a pick this year. He brought in a lot of starters. It takes a few years for some guys to develop. Macs not the problem bowles is the problem he doesn't put them in the right positions to succeed. We have a clueless coach.

[Ghost]

Are people really expecting Mac to draft a stud in EVERY round? Most of the players he drafted, at the very least, look serviceable. At least we're adding depth. 

 

Are we forgetting the roster Mac took over? I'll give him a C+/B-. I do not like some of the contracts he handed out, but at least we can get out of them without major penalty. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

Two years ago the Jets had the worst collection of skilled position players I've ever seen.

Now,  at the very least, I like the receiver core and they have a potential answer at TE.

[Tinstar]

12 hours ago, Maxman said:

I don't think Devin Smith is going to be on the team next year. He was on the field a lot on Sunday and nothing. A whole lot of nothing.

He has to come back, prove that he is recovered from the injury and that he has great hands.

Maybe that was because of who the QB was, the game plan to not let him ruin the last game and the lack of continuity with the  QB who locks onto a target like a heat seeking missile .

Or Maybe he just sucks and has been by-passed by the kids .

[varjet]

From a drafting perspective, barring Paxton Lynch becoming a Franchise QB and Hack not becoming a starting QB (the former being a fireable offense (see below)), it would appear that Macc did his job.  His first round picks were basically BPA or needed BPA based on the HC's scheme.  He found contributors in the lower rounds and USFA.  But that being said, Macc is paid to be smart.  Other teams found Lee type or better players in the second or lower rounds.  I hope the WRs picked after Lee do not turn out to be No 1 WRs, which the Jets will need after Marshall moves on, which could be tomorrow.

He was using Bradway's staff for 2015, so I would give him a quasi-pass on that.   It is one thing for a player not to work out, and it is another to pick a player that just does not appear to belong on the field.  Devin Smith and Jarvis Harrison appear to fall in the latter category.  

Macc exhibited tremendous you know whats to pass over Lynch to pick Hack.  If the Jets picked Lynch in round 1 and he did not ultimately work out, I honestly believe that the fans would have given Macc a pass.  When you don't have a Franchise QB, you basically need to reasonably reach, even in Round 1, to get one.  Most of the pundits thought that Lynch had NFL QB potential.  So to use a high 2nd round pick on a QB that many thought should not even be drafted does expose you, even if he theoretically could have been picked 

PFF had a non-draftable grade on Hack.  Macc may prove to be smarter than them, but the pressure is on, and if I were him I would have Gailey work with him 8 hours a day to create effectively a self-fulfilling prophesy.  Hack needs to be at least a no 2 next year.

[dbatesman]

16 hours ago, gEYno said:

It's hard to express how absurdly stupid this "philosophy of yours" is.

It's stupefying. Truly one of the dumbest things anyone has ever posted here, and he makes it his "philosophy" of posting.

[CrazyCarl40]

13 hours ago, Ghost said:

Are people really expecting Mac to draft a stud in EVERY round? Most of the players he drafted, at the very least, look serviceable. At least we're adding depth. 

 

Are we forgetting the roster Mac took over? I'll give him a C+/B-. I do not like some of the contracts he handed out, but at least we can get out of them without major penalty. 

Revis deal in 2015 should have taught him a lesson about giving Mo the whopper he gave him this past offseason. Mistakes are meant to be learned from, not repeated. 

[UnitedWhofans]

14 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Revis deal in 2015 should have taught him a lesson about giving Mo the whopper he gave him this past offseason. Mistakes are meant to be learned from, not repeated. 

Revis deal worked in 2015. He played well. IT went to pot after they signed Wilkerson

[CrazyCarl40]

9 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Revis deal worked in 2015. He played well. IT went to pot after they signed Wilkerson

Revis did not play well in 2015. He played about average and nosedived at the end of the season. He got worked in 2015 too. Watch some football. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

Revis did not play well in 2015. He played about average and nosedived at the end of the season. He got worked in 2015 too. Watch some football. 

Yes he did. He got burned a couple of times but overall he played well. He was hurt in the Buffalo game which limited him.

Our secondary was MUCH better in 2015 than in 2016. And that was with playing good offenses, i.e. Giants, Pats etc.

[CrazyCarl40]

16 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Yes he did. He got burned a couple of times but overall he played well. He was hurt in the Buffalo game which limited him.

Our secondary was MUCH better in 2015 than in 2016. And that was with playing good offenses, i.e. Giants, Pats etc.

2015 - 17th in passing yards allowed 3898

2016 - 13th in passing yards allowed 3763

That's about 9 yards more per game. Go ahead and keep believing the yarn you're spinning but Revis was not good in 2015 too and he got worse as the year went on. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

2015 - 17th in passing yards allowed 3898

2016 - 13th in passing yards allowed 3763

That's about 9 yards more per game. Go ahead and keep believing the yarn you're spinning but Revis was not good in 2015 too and he got worse as the year went on. 

Interesting. So why are people complaining about the secondary this year, then?

Revis did not receive as much negative attention last year as he did this year. I wonder why?

[CrazyCarl40]

Just now, UnitedWhofans said:

So why are people complaining about the secondary this year, then?

People were complaining about the secondary both years. Last year it was Cro. This year it was everybody. Why are you basing how players play on what fans on a forum think? People complained about Revis last season too. Last year the team won more. Losing reveals more. 

[UnitedWhofans]

Just now, CrazyCarl40 said:

People were complaining about the secondary both years. Last year it was Cro. This year it was everybody. Why are you basing how players play on what fans on a forum think? People complained about Revis last season too. Last year the team won more. Losing reveals more. 

Not to the extent of this year though. 

I also believe that stat may be a bit slanted because teams ran the ball more late in games when they were firmly ahead.

I'm not disputing your stats though. However last year, Revis was not getting burnt by young receivers. This year he was.

 

[dbatesman]

37 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Interesting. So why are people complaining about the secondary this year, then?

Revis did not receive as much negative attention last year as he did this year. I wonder why?

Who gives a sh*t? 

[CrazyCarl40]

37 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

Not to the extent of this year though. 

I also believe that stat may be a bit slanted because teams ran the ball more late in games when they were firmly ahead.

I'm not disputing your stats though. However last year, Revis was not getting burnt by young receivers. This year he was.

 

Watkins, Dez, Hopkins, Allen Robinson and others torched him last season. Please stop. Watch the games. 

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, JiF said:

What I've learned in this thread:

You can't judge a GM in hindsight.  It's not fair.  

Players who don't play and get injured don't count and you can't judge them because it's not fair.  

Jace Amaro and Vernon Gholston were good picks. 

Landing 1 player in 2 years = B.

The Jets might possibly be more talented then a team who hasn't won more than 5 games in the last 10 years. 

Looks good early on = you can judge him as being a good/great pick or signing

Looks bad (or can't get onto the field) early on = you cannot judge him yet, good or bad

[Sperm Edwards]

21 hours ago, fusionCA said:

#1 is  as stupid as it can be.

maybe you need to go back to school to learn about democracy and government

Better analogy is, if you're a woman who married a guy who, it later turns out, is willing to beat you for not bearing him a manchild, then you have no right to criticize him because you could have chosen somebody else. The natural extension of this is that divorce should be outlawed, and every judge would say, "Hey, you married each other, now stick together for 50 years even if it was a bad decision, you're both miserable, and one of you is actually in harm's way."

That's just brilliant.

[DMan77]

MM is a good GM! There are plenty of teams that would like to have him on their side.

The draft is only one aspect to look at here when judging him.

Look at the contracts he was able to get signed. He left himself in a good position to dump these players and come back with a decent amount of cash to fill a few holes or build some depth this offseason... Don't underestimate that part of being a GM! No GM is going to go draft 14 probowlers in their first 2 years! You want a GM who can do it all, and so far MM has been solid. 

Also. Writing off last years picks is iffy... I think Lee is going to have a big 2nd year. He just needs to slow himself down a little bit... He can learn how to do that. 

[Sperm Edwards]

15 hours ago, robinjohnson525 said:

Everybody forgets Brandon Marshall for a fifth round, Fitzpatrick for a six he filled in well the first year and was only suppose to be a back up. How can you knock that. He picked up forte for a pick this year. He brought in a lot of starters. It takes a few years for some guys to develop. Macs not the problem bowles is the problem he doesn't put them in the right positions to succeed. We have a clueless coach.

Nobody forgets it. He didn't draft Brandon Marshall with a 5th, so we could enjoy a career of borderline-HOF numbers out of him (sprinkled with his inopportune drops and personal demons). I liked the Marshall pickup. but the insinuation is he called up Chicago and swindled them rather than simply taking what was offered from a team that wanted to be rid of him. Fitzpatrick was ridiculously overrated last year. 

Also you're glossing over the cost. Marshall has so far cost $18.5m and a draft pick. Fitzpatrick has cost $15.5m and a draft pick. They have helped lead us to zero playoff appearances and just 2 years later neither will be on the team anymore. 

Maccagnan is an enormous problem. Even two of his marquis acquisitions aren't so stellar. He gets an absurd amount of credit for taking Williams (and then keeping both Mo and Sheldon for 2 years with him lol). If he found a player like Williams in round 2 (or round 5) then go ahead and gush over him. Williams had the best pre-draft grade in the country and he was just sitting there with our 6th pick. Taking him was no stroke of genius, nor is there any indication he'd have still taken Williams if we picked 5th.