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2017 Salary Cap: $167 million


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8 hours ago, AFJF said:

If the Jets pass up the chance to get a quality young QB because they already have Hackenberg, it would be on par with Idzik passing on Carr because he already had GeNOOOO.

Glennon is NOT a quality young QB, he is Fitz II in the making.

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with Increase in salary cap, paying glennon getting paid 12-15 mill a year is not terrible for a reliable young qb with upside


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Glennon has a far better resume than Osweiler did. He's getting at least 15m a year plus signing bonus in the range of 15m as well.


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8 hours ago, UnitedWhofans said:

This is how I see the starting roster:

FS: Draft Pick (Hooker/Adams)

SS: Pryor

CB 1: Free Agent (Need to see who is available)

CB 2: Burris, Roberts, Williams (One of those 3)

OLB: Mauldin, Jenkins (Trust Kevin Greene to get the pass rush out of these guys)

ILB: Lee, Free Agent (Minter or Hightower)

DL: Wilkerson, Williams, Mcclendon

WR: Pretty much the same as last year, maybe a draft pick in there as well

TE: ASJ, maybe a draft pick

LT: Free agent

LG: Brian Winters

C: Wesley Johnson, draft pick

RG: James Carpenter

RT: Brandon Shell, maybe a draft pick 

RB: Powell, Forte, Draft Pick

QB: FA, Hackenberg, Petty

 

So in FA, I think they will get a CB, ILB, LT and a QB at the very least. I would focus on the premium CB most of all

For a rebuilding year....

S-it would be great to trade prior.   Let whoever we have play with Hooker or Adams.

CB-I agree-top FA and who we have.

OLB-I agree-who we have plus a draft pick-likely round 2 and down.

ILB-for what Harris gets paid, I agree it would be better to let him go and sign Mintner or Hightower.   That may be hard though, so maybe Harris stays a year and a draft pick learns behind him.

DL is fine.  Also Pennell and Simon.  SR must go.

C/G-Winters, Johnson, Carpenter, guys we have, likely a drafted Center.   Johnson likely signs a 1 year deal and he can also play guard.  C has always been key for the Jets-would rather see Elflein, Pocic, etc. on a 4+ year deal.

T-Shell/Quale/Ijalana are fine for RT.  The Jets need to sign a body for LT.  There does not appear to be LT prospects who can start day 1 in rounds 2 and below.  I support Beachum.

RB-fine with what we have plus draft pick.

TE-fine with what we have plus draft pick.

QB-it would be a shame to pay Glennon all that money.  It is really gambling with alot of money.  Better off fishing in the draft or with the usual backups.   There is a second round pick that needs to be sampled.

If the Jets signed a ILB (8), CB (12) and LT (8) (conservative numbers), that is about as much cap room as we have, before signing a QB or S.  

 

 

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For a rebuilding year....

S-it would be great to trade prior.   Let whoever we have play with Hooker or Adams.

CB-I agree-top FA and who we have.

OLB-I agree-who we have plus a draft pick-likely round 2 and down.

ILB-for what Harris gets paid, I agree it would be better to let him go and sign Mintner or Hightower.   That may be hard though, so maybe Harris stays a year and a draft pick learns behind him.

DL is fine.  Also Pennell and Simon.  SR must go.

C/G-Winters, Johnson, Carpenter, guys we have, likely a drafted Center.   Johnson likely signs a 1 year deal and he can also play guard.  C has always been key for the Jets-would rather see Elflein, Pocic, etc. on a 4+ year deal.

T-Shell/Quale/Ijalana are fine for RT.  The Jets need to sign a body for LT.  There does not appear to be LT prospects who can start day 1 in rounds 2 and below.  I support Beachum.

RB-fine with what we have plus draft pick.

TE-fine with what we have plus draft pick.

QB-it would be a shame to pay Glennon all that money.  It is really gambling with alot of money.  Better off fishing in the draft or with the usual backups.   There is a second round pick that needs to be sampled.

If the Jets signed a ILB (8), CB (12) and LT (8) (conservative numbers), that is about as much cap room as we have, before signing a QB or S.  

 

 

 

 

stopped reading at 'trade pryor' dude improved dramatically last year.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Of course. Like if/when we part ways with Marshall, for example, it doesn't mean there is a hole on the team for "#1 WR" like always gets repeated. If any QB we have (or add) is worth a damn, what he'll need are multiple (3-4) reliable targets that can get open 1-on-1, more than 1 super-stud that can be double/triple-teamed. 

I agree too many have a wish list of the best _____ available in free agency. In this market, we'd need Cleveland's $100m of cap room to shop around like that, given the # of starter holes this team has. Not to mention, superexpensive-veteran-shopping means the guys you drafted won't be given serious opportunities to start (outside of promotion through others' injuries).

So, what would you say if they cut a few more vets and just let all the young guys battle it out to see who is worthy and who is not?  Then, you draft and sign guys the next two years accordingly?  I am REALLY starting to wonder if there was a bit of a pushed agenda to win-now the past two seasons, and this season is looking like a dump salary and trade vets to recoup picks and start fresh.  But, can Mac get it right?  Who knows...

 

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18 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

this is where we have to hope mccagnan the pure scout has it right.  he was there in houston for years when their qbs sucked (they still suck).  they tried hoyer/fitz and failed.  so mccagnan knows that guys like this are desperate measures.  

while glennon is probably not as bad as osweiler, i still get the feeling mccagnan would rather risk his job on drafting and developing qbs than taking someone who rode pine for 3-4 years while only flashing in a few games where the expectation was very low.  usually, those guys don't pan out on the next team, usually you get scott mitchell and matt flynn and not steve young.  

it seems like  it's really coming down to whether or not they go high end, glennon, or low end, hoyer for qb.  if they go high end then he's the guy.  low end it's petty/hack. then they can a draft a qb in round 5 or so like peterman.  one issue is if they will have to keep 4 qb's on the roster to prevent losing one.  another point is if they do go for glennon then it makes some sense to draft fournette.

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9 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

So, what would you say if they cut a few more vets and just let all the young guys battle it out to see who is worthy and who is not?  Then, you draft and sign guys the next two years accordingly?  I am REALLY starting to wonder if there was a bit of a pushed agenda to win-now the past two seasons, and this season is looking like a dump salary and trade vets to recoup picks and start fresh.  But, can Mac get it right?  Who knows...

 

For some there is always a conspiracy theory to explain the failures of those for whom they have affection. Except there is no evidence whatsoever for this imaginary scenario.

How about this: it is just what it looks like.

A new, first-time GM saw enough other GMs - including his first-time GM predecessor here - lose their jobs waiting to have a QB in place before they make a big splash and burn through all their cap room. I'm sure Idzik regrets hoarding cap space & setting internal hard limits for individual FAs' values for 2 offseasons, only for his replacement to piss through it in 1 offseason. His biggest booster - the former GM that recommended him for the position - likely told him the same thing: don't future-plan until you are on stable enough ground yourself. You don't have the great reputation, nor successful body of work in the past, requisite to weather the NY media vultures panning you for a losing season. Even more so with a HC he didn't know and didn't pick himself.

Well Maccagnan wasn't going to make that mistake, so he went all out, even in the absence of a freaking QB. His plan, it seems, was to sign (and retain) expensive instant-starters (including making himself the teacher's pet by bringing back his fayvie HOF CB no matter what the cost). These high-priced veterans would all be here for the next 2-3 seasons, by which time his own draft picks would fill out most of those holes to take over. Then any redundant/un-needed incumbent young players (namely, Mo and then Sheldon) he'd simply parlay into additional 1st round picks.

Except it didn't happen.

It worked out just-okay for 1 season, and even that was immensely added by an impossibly easy-peasy schedule; every win coming against a team with many key starters out with injury, or against league doormats outright. Before October 1 of year 2, the plan had already visibly crumbled. His mid-round pick QB wasn't even suitable as a #2, let alone as starter, and the lowly journeyman QB coming off a career year played him like a fiddle for a contract that never should have been offered. It ended as any objective football fan would have predicted: failure, without any realistic chance of making the playoffs (let alone seriously contend for a SB).

He is now cutting these older, expensive players now without such known replacements on-hand; before enough of his draft picks and cheaper FAs have earned promotions to sure-thing starter. 

Far, far more likely than an owner telling a rookie GM, whose only qualification for the job was scouting college talent, to build a team through expensive free agents; and then, after that failed and too few of his draft picks earning starting roles, tell him he'll now get protected with a second mulligan in 3 years (or 3rd in 4 years if it continues through 2018) to build slowly. It's not even believable, frankly, and he's still going to max out the cap this year and is going to further spend 2018's cap space in 2017. You watch.

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39 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

For some there is always a conspiracy theory to explain the failures of those for whom they have affection. Except there is no evidence whatsoever for this imaginary scenario.

 

Its really just the exact inverse of what you and some others do. You decide they don't like someone, and then pin every failure, even the failures of others on that person, and then look for shreds of evidence to support your hate of the day.

I mean, I think I saw one or two somewhat negative posts from you over the years about Idzik, and those were very minor. Meanwhile, the guy passed on 3 potential franchise QB's becasue he had Geno ******* Smith, whom he had the privilege of seeing up close and personal for a year. Not to mention we have about 2 meaningful players in 2 years of drafting, with very high draft picks, one of which is a thug and will likely be gone soon. 

Meanwhile, you will make every post you can bashing someone you hate over salary cap dollars that you or anyone else is yet to show me the impact of with a crappy team and 5th round draft picks. Are you wrong about those that you hate? usually not completely, usually their is a kernel of truth in your posts.

But the reality is that you pick and chose who you have affection for just like others do, you just do the opposite where you ignore their major flaws, while going to opposite extremes for those you dislike. Its all cool and all, but lets no pretend your any different than anyone else, its just your approach is different, and your probably a better arguer than most.

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9 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Its really just the exact inverse of what you and some others do. You decide they don't like someone, and then pin every failure, even the failures of others on that person, and then look for shreds of evidence to support your hate of the day.

I mean, I think I saw one or two somewhat negative posts from you over the years about Idzik, and those were very minor. Meanwhile, the guy passed on 3 potential franchise QB's becasue he had Geno ******* Smith, whom he had the privilege of seeing up close and personal for a year. Not to mention we have about 2 meaningful players in 2 years of drafting, with very high draft picks, one of which is a thug and will likely be gone soon. 

Meanwhile, you will make every post you can bashing someone you hate over salary cap dollars that you or anyone else is yet to show me the impact of with a crappy team and 5th round draft picks. Are you wrong about those that you hate? usually not completely, usually their is a kernel of truth in your posts.

But the reality is that you pick and chose who you have affection for just like others do, you just do the opposite where you ignore their major flaws, while going to opposite extremes for those you dislike. Its all cool and all, but lets no pretend your any different than anyone else, its just your approach is different, and your probably a better arguer than most.

What a load of sh*t.  Some of us didn't spend too much time complaining about Idzik because he was an easy target and there were already plenty of posts doing the job. Maccagnan spending all that money on aging players is all on him.  If you don't have a problem with trading 5th round picks and overspending then why dump Tannenbaum?  The team was actually in a as good a position when he left than it has been at any point since.

Maccagnan may turn out to be good, but early returns are not promising.  Particularly from the cap end of things and the ******* cap is important.  It is his job.  If it weren't we wouldn't be cutting guys that we would want to retire here (Mangold) and we would have a left (and right) tackle. 

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1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

What a load of sh*t.  Some of us didn't spend too much time complaining about Idzik because he was an easy target and there were already plenty of posts doing the job. Maccagnan spending all that money on aging players is all on him.  If you don't have a problem with trading 5th round picks and overspending then why dump Tannenbaum?  The team was actually in a as good a position when he left than it has been at any point since.

Maccagnan may turn out to be good, but early returns are not promising.  Particularly from the cap end of things and the ******* cap is important.  It is his job.  If it weren't we wouldn't be cutting guys that we would want to retire here (Mangold) and we would have a left (and right) tackle. 

Oh, I see, so in other words what your saying is a GM could be absolutely atrocious, but if he is an easy target, you shouldn't complain about him passing on 3 franchise QB's?

Al while at the same time, if a GM is not an easy target, we should blame the failings of the past 2 regimes on him, and crush him for not fixing it two years?

Did I get that right?

 

 

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25 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Its really just the exact inverse of what you and some others do. You decide they don't like someone, and then pin every failure, even the failures of others on that person, and then look for shreds of evidence to support your hate of the day.

I mean, I think I saw one or two somewhat negative posts from you over the years about Idzik, and those were very minor. Meanwhile, the guy passed on 3 potential franchise QB's becasue he had Geno ******* Smith, whom he had the privilege of seeing up close and personal for a year. Not to mention we have about 2 meaningful players in 2 years of drafting, with very high draft picks, one of which is a thug and will likely be gone soon. 

Meanwhile, you will make every post you can bashing someone you hate over salary cap dollars that you or anyone else is yet to show me the impact of with a crappy team and 5th round draft picks. Are you wrong about those that you hate? usually not completely, usually their is a kernel of truth in your posts.

But the reality is that you pick and chose who you have affection for just like others do, you just do the opposite where you ignore their major flaws, while going to opposite extremes for those you dislike. Its all cool and all, but lets no pretend your any different than anyone else, its just your approach is different, and your probably a better arguer than most.

rofl

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18 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

Oh, I see, so in other words what your saying is a GM could be absolutely atrocious, but if he is an easy target, you shouldn't complain about him passing on 3 franchise QB's?

Al while at the same time, if a GM is not an easy target, we should blame the failings of the past 2 regimes on him, and crush him for not fixing it two years?

Did I get that right?

No.  I am saying why should we constantly repeat what everyone else is/was saying.  Maccagnan has a lot of his good will resting on Hackenberg.  I know red shirt, blah, blah, blah, but the kid is woefully unready and any plan that had likely rested with guys that retired or were fired.  That seems to indicate the plan was not successful.  Idzik pinned his good will on ******* Dimitri Patterson.  I don't think there is a need to belabor what a bad idea that was.  Did anybody disagree?  

What franchise QB did Maccagnan get? He had a blank slate. Ton of money, #5 overall and two years later, what have we got to show for it?  A ton of dead money, 3 high level DTs on a team running a 3-4, an undersized LB and Hackenberg.  Huzzah!  He didn't have to fix it, but he added exactly one piece we are certain that we are happy to have in 2 years. In 3 years you should be able to completely overhaul a roster.  We haven't, or if we have any improvement has been imperceptible.  

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7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

No.  I am saying why should we constantly repeat what everyone else is/was saying.  Maccagnan has a lot of his good will resting on Hackenberg.  I know red shirt, blah, blah, blah, but the kid is woefully unready and any plan that had likely rested with guys that retired or were fired.  That seems to indicate the plan was not successful.  Idzik pinned his good will on ******* Dimitri Patterson.  I don't think there is a need to belabor what a bad idea that was.  Did anybody disagree?  

What franchise QB did Maccagnan get? He had a blank slate. Ton of money, #5 overall and two years later, what have we got to show for it?  A ton of dead money, 3 high level DTs on a team running a 3-4, an undersized LB and Hackenberg.  Huzzah!  He didn't have to fix it, but he added exactly one piece we are certain that we are happy to have in 2 years. In 3 years you should be able to completely overhaul a roster.  We haven't, or if we have any improvement has been imperceptible.  

The real problem with this franchise is Woody Johnson, period. He is an awful, awful owner.

We got stuck with Idzik because he forced an incoming GM to take an awful HC, and not let the incoming GM pick his HC's fate.

Idzik, despite having an awful owner in Woody, passed on 3 QB's who look legit, and took one who is completely garbage. He had a chance despite having an awful owner, to get a very solid player at the most important position in football, and he passed on them.

I have no love for Maccagnan at all, he has done plenty to be critical of, but when I look at what he has done, it looks pretty clear to me that he was trying to win in a small window. Most of what he did was aimed at that small window, with the exception of Hackenberg. I have said over and over that if this was Maccagnans M.O. then he should not have the opportunity to rebuild, and that he made his bed and he should lie in it.

However, I think its far, far more likely that his orders from our asshat moron owner, was to win quickly. It was his knee-jerk reaction to having to see signs to fire his GM on the highway, and the media and fan outcry, and he wanted to turn it around quickly. He is an attention whore and wants quick returns, rather than doing things right. its been his M.O. since he took over this team, short of a small window which Idzik ****ed up.

Nobody knows this for sure, but logic would dictate two pretty solid indicators for this:

1) Woody has never been a patient person with anyone outside of the moron Rex, if this was not his order to win now, I find it highly unlikely that Maccagnan would be letting vets go right now, as he would either be fired, or in do anything he can to win this year and save his hide mode. He may still be in that mode, but the Mangold move makes me think otherwise. Time will tell with this one.

2) Woody went on record saying he wanted Revis, and Woody just watched 6 years of no playoffs, not Maccagnan. If your a brand new GM, and you have the choice of taking a sh*tty roster, and a lot of cap money, and trying to win in a small window, or have a proper rebuild, what would you do? I sure as hell would take the latter. The former is a sure fire way to get fired quicker than the latter. He had no QB, and really no core of talent in any one area outside of DL that you could look to and say we are a few pieces away of being a serious contender. 

To me, everything Maccagnan has done reeks of Woody Johnson. He is the one getting the free pass.

 

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13 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

The real problem with this franchise is Woody Johnson, period. He is an awful, awful owner.

We got stuck with Idzik because he forced an incoming GM to take an awful HC, and not let the incoming GM pick his HC's fate.

Idzik, despite having an awful owner in Woody, passed on 3 QB's who look legit, and took one who is completely garbage. He had a chance despite having an awful owner, to get a very solid player at the most important position in football, and he passed on them.

I have no love for Maccagnan at all, he has done plenty to be critical of, but when I look at what he has done, it looks pretty clear to me that he was trying to win in a small window. Most of what he did was aimed at that small window, with the exception of Hackenberg. I have said over and over that if this was Maccagnans M.O. then he should not have the opportunity to rebuild, and that he made his bed and he should lie in it.

However, I think its far, far more likely that his orders from our asshat moron owner, was to win quickly. It was his knee-jerk reaction to having to see signs to fire his GM on the highway, and the media and fan outcry, and he wanted to turn it around quickly. He is an attention whore and wants quick returns, rather than doing things right. its been his M.O. since he took over this team, short of a small window which Idzik ****ed up.

Nobody knows this for sure, but logic would dictate two pretty solid indicators for this:

1) Woody has never been a patient person with anyone outside of the moron Rex, if this was not his order to win now, I find it highly unlikely that Maccagnan would be letting vets go right now, as he would either be fired, or in do anything he can to win this year and save his hide mode. He may still be in that mode, but the Mangold move makes me think otherwise. Time will tell with this one.

2) Woody went on record saying he wanted Revis, and Woody just watched 6 years of no playoffs, not Maccagnan. If your a brand new GM, and you have the choice of taking a sh*tty roster, and a lot of cap money, and trying to win in a small window, or have a proper rebuild, what would you do? I sure as hell would take the latter. The former is a sure fire way to get fired quicker than the latter. He had no QB, and really no core of talent in any one area outside of DL that you could look to and say we are a few pieces away of being a serious contender. 

To me, everything Maccagnan has done reeks of Woody Johnson. He is the one getting the free pass.

 

He is getting a free pass because that is pure conjecture.  We never landed on the moon conspiracy.  Why stop at Woody?  Maybe it is that Goodell just doesn't want us to win. 

I blame the GM because he made those decisions and signed those guys to sh*tty contracts even he doesn't want anymore.  You blame the owner because?  Because you can't imagine a GM acting so stupidly.  Several times he made this sh*t contracts without any other bidders - Fitzpatrick, Winters, etc. 

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4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

He is getting a free pass because that is pure conjecture.  We never landed on the moon conspiracy.  Why stop at Woody?  Maybe it is that Goodell just doesn't want us to win. 

I blame the GM because he made those decisions and signed those guys to sh*tty contracts even he doesn't want anymore.  You blame the owner because?  Because you can't imagine a GM acting so stupidly.  Several times he made this sh*t contracts without any other bidders - Fitzpatrick, Winters, etc. 

Holy hell, conspiracy, landing on the moon?

An owner who likes the spot light telling his new GM to win now is a conspiracy in line with never landing on the moon? I mean wow, I love a good argument, but this is just so far out there I can't even argue it.

I blame the owner because I use logic to deduce that based on the facts, I believe it was his orders. I have no proof, nor do I claim to have proof. Its just my opinion based on logic, history and piecing together facts. But wow, conspiracy theory, awesome.

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Just now, NoBowles said:

Holy hell, conspiracy, landing on the moon?

An owner who likes the spot light telling his new GM to win now is a conspiracy in line with never landing on the moon? I mean wow, I love a good argument, but this is just so far out there I can't even argue it.

I blame the owner because I use logic to deduce that based on the facts, I believe it was his orders. I have no proof, nor do I claim to have proof. Its just my opinion based on logic, history and piecing together facts. But wow, conspiracy theory, awesome.

So logically you agree that the GM has performed poorly.  You just feel it wasn't his fault.  

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Just now, #27TheDominator said:

So logically you agree that the GM has performed poorly.  You just feel it wasn't his fault.  

No, logically I think that Nasa has captured Woody's pea brain and is trying to send it to the moon.

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Is $167 million the Jets actual number? I know it is the number set by the league. But I have seen that some other teams carried over money from the previous season. For example the New England carried $5.2 million of unused money over from 2016 to put their cap number around $172 million.  Did the Jets carry over any money?

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

No.  I am saying why should we constantly repeat what everyone else is/was saying.  Maccagnan has a lot of his good will resting on Hackenberg.  I know red shirt, blah, blah, blah, but the kid is woefully unready and any plan that had likely rested with guys that retired or were fired.  That seems to indicate the plan was not successful.  Idzik pinned his good will on ******* Dimitri Patterson.  I don't think there is a need to belabor what a bad idea that was.  Did anybody disagree?  

What franchise QB did Maccagnan get? He had a blank slate. Ton of money, #5 overall and two years later, what have we got to show for it?  A ton of dead money, 3 high level DTs on a team running a 3-4, an undersized LB and Hackenberg.  Huzzah!  He didn't have to fix it, but he added exactly one piece we are certain that we are happy to have in 2 years. In 3 years you should be able to completely overhaul a roster.  We haven't, or if we have any improvement has been imperceptible.  

I was very excited about Maccagnan and Bowles when they were first hired. I thought they were hired the right way, and they each seemed like a solid football guy. Two years later, I'm no longer particularly excited. And as much as I liked the hires initially, I was immediately critical of the power structure (each man reporting directly to Woody, instead of one of them being the other's boss), and I can see that becoming a real problem this season as Maccagnan (hopefully) is looking long term, and Bowles is coaching for his job. Another big issue is that they're essentially in a lame duck year heading a team that needs at least two good off seasons to get back to being a legitimate contender. My feeling is that they either should've been fired or extended. I'm concerned that they're now in a win-now mode for the sake of their job security (with Maccagnan potentially having more security than Bowles), when win-now is simply not realistic for this team. As you said, they have a lot riding on the extremely questionable Hackenberg pick. It's a pretty bleak situation. 

As a result, I'd like to see them be very frugal in free agency this year. Find the middle class, smart, hard-working guys that you need to be the meat of your roster. As badly as they need CB or LT help, I wouldn't break the bank for either position. Or QB. Trading for Glennon and his rookie contract made sense, giving him a projected $15M+/year is insanity. Cutler is a malcontent, and Bowles has demonstrated little talent for dealing with malcontents. Hoyer, unfortunately, is probably just right. 

I think part of the veteran purge is an effort to help Bowles win back a locker room he clearly lost last year. Wouldn't be surprised to see Decker on the trading block as part of that effort. Marshall will cheerlead for whoever his QB is, and Harris is nothing if not always in line. Mangold and Decker successfully campaigning for Fitzpatrick to return has too much of an inmates running the asylum feel. Bowles and Maccagnan both have to reassert their leadership positions. 

I'm hoping their job security is tied more closely to how well they build a foundation this year over wins and losses, and that they demonstrate that they can build a foundation. Given the job Maccagnan has done in free agency so far, I'm far from convinced. And I want to see Hackenberg play this year. That pick says a lot about what kind of GM Maccagnan is, for better or worse. 

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