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How can anyone still defend Macagnan?


Philc1

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

You're the homer this board needs.  Defending the indefensible, it's Pacman.  How are you feeling about our $50 bet right about now?

Well there's no shortage of whining bitches like you so I guess there does need to be some sort of balance.

I feel fine with the bet.  

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1 hour ago, dbatesman said:

Hi Pac. Just to clarify, you think it would be stupid to fire a GM this early in his tenure, right? I'll hang up and listen for my answer. Thank's

I think it's stupid to fire a guy for doing what you've been begging him to do since he got here, yes.

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I still like mac, I think he has done a much better job than some of the dopes on here give him credit for. Instead of thinking about every draft pick he took that is not a perennial probowler as if every other team is taking studs with every pick how about we look at some of the guys he had the chance to draft and the fan base was screaming for but he passed on like kevin white who looks like he is made out of the same glass as miliner was or Paxton lynch who got beat out by simian? If you have unreal expectations that everyone drafted is going to end up being great you will hate every gm we could bring in mac has also found some decent value players late in the draft and as undrafted free agents. He has made some trades that made sense for our team. I honestly believe he has done a decent job and next season we need to let him pick his own head coach.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

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Just now, bealeb319 said:

I still like mac, I think he has done a much better job than some of the dopes on here give him credit for. Instead of thinking about every draft pick he took that is not a perennial probowler as if every other team is taking studs with every pick how about we look at some of the guys he had the chance to draft and the fan base was screaming for but he passed on like kevin white who looks like he is made out of the same glass as miliner was or Paxton lynch who got beat out by simian? If you have unreal expectations that everyone drafted is going to end up being great you will hate every gm we could bring in mac has also found some decent value players late in the draft and as undrafted free agents. He has made some trades that made sense for our team. I honestly believe he has done a decent job and next season we need to let him pick his own head coach.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Kind of my point all along.  I've said a million times that many of his picks have "shown the ability" to play in the NFL and it'll be on the coaching staff to continue developing these kids. A lot of those guys looked good again yesterday, so I'm gonna' sit back this season and see how the kids do moving forward.

The number of games this team has lost due to Bowles coaching scared/conservative/stupid is unknown, but the'd be a lot better than they've been if he'd play the best players IMO.

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8 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

I still like mac, I think he has done a much better job than some of the dopes on here give him credit for. Instead of thinking about every draft pick he took that is not a perennial probowler as if every other team is taking studs with every pick how about we look at some of the guys he had the chance to draft and the fan base was screaming for but he passed on like kevin white who looks like he is made out of the same glass as miliner was or Paxton lynch who got beat out by simian? If you have unreal expectations that everyone drafted is going to end up being great you will hate every gm we could bring in mac has also found some decent value players late in the draft and as undrafted free agents. He has made some trades that made sense for our team. I honestly believe he has done a decent job and next season we need to let him pick his own head coach.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Lol... 3rd season in and we are in the conversation for the number 1 overall pick, but it's the ones who are critical of this who are the dopes.

Lol x2... Acting as if people are complaining that Mac's picks aren't perennial pro bowlers when few of them have even achieved "competent starter" status.

Lol x3... Acting as if there's no difference between expecting anyone to be great and expecting anyone to be great.

Lol x4... Giving a guy who's drafted one player in 3 years who's proven he can play at a high level in this league a 4th, 5th, and 6th draft (as you would, if you let him pick a new coach).

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Mac is a very interesting topic to me. Because I dont think he is straight garbage. He definitely has an eye for talent. Burris/Shell/Anderson/Martin all look like they have potential to at least contribute on this team. Hell, Burris/Martin/Shell all played pretty damn well yesterday. Jenkins seems like he could be a player. Leonard Williams was a fantastic pick (if not a bit obvious). As of now, Hackenberg was a bad pick. I dont see that changing, but I suppose it could. Devin Smith was an awful pick. Darron Lee is approaching that territory as well. 

So, he's better than Idzik at drafting. I mean, not the hardest task.

But to me, it seems like any time he has to pay for someone, it doesnt really work out for the team. 

And at the end of the day, I think the question is, do you trust Mac to bring on the correct coach and QB with the number 1 (or 2) pick? I dont think I do.

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2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Hi Pac. Just to clarify, you think it would be stupid to fire a GM this early in his tenure, right? I'll hang up and listen for my answer. Thank's

 

35 minutes ago, Pac said:

I think it's stupid to fire a guy for doing what you've been begging him to do since he got here, yes.

Pac, looking to upgrade his home, hires a painter.  He comes home to this:

090623e.JPG

Pac: "Well, it's not the color I asked for, it's uneven, and it looks horrible... But I did ask you to paint, so, it works for me."

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24 minutes ago, gEYno said:

 

Pac, looking to upgrade his home, hires a painter.  He comes home to this:

 

Pac: "Well, it's not the color I asked for, it's uneven, and it looks horrible... But I did ask you to paint, so, it works for me."

The problem with your analogy is that room is almost complete while Maccs work of art just started.

Every GM candidate you guys were working yourselves up in a lather over a couple years ago has either failed or was never hired.  Tom Gamble?  Dave Caldwell?  

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Just now, Pac said:

The problem with your analogy is that room is almost complete while Maccs work of art just started.

Every GM candidate you guys were working yourselves up in a lather over a couple years ago has either failed or was never hired.  Tom Gamble?  Dave Caldwell?  

I've yet to work myself into a lather about any GM candidate.  I've simply stated that Macc is doing a bad job, as evidenced by the fact that after 3 years, we are one of the leagues worst teams, and the players he's added are not good.  We may have an excellent draft resource next year, and a ton of space, I don't want to give that to a guy who, heading into his third season, has a room that looks like the one in the picture.

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1 hour ago, Pac said:

Well there's no shortage of whining bitches like you so I guess there does need to be some sort of balance.

I feel fine with the bet.  

It's not whining.  It's accurate.  I'd rather not live in a fantasy world where all of this is actually good.  I'd prefer to just do something else with my Sunday's and wait until the draft to get excited. 

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17 minutes ago, Pac said:

Every GM candidate you guys were working yourselves up in a lather over a couple years ago has either failed or was never hired.  Tom Gamble?  Dave Caldwell?  

Also, these guys were part of the Idzik hiring cycle, not the Maccagnan one, so I'm honestly not even sure what you're talking about

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39 minutes ago, gEYno said:

 

Pac, looking to upgrade his home, hires a painter.  He comes home to this:

090623e.JPG

Pac: "Well, it's not the color I asked for, it's uneven, and it looks horrible... But I did ask you to paint, so, it works for me."

The problem with this analogy is Macc negotiated the deal and signed the contract. Bowles and his handpicked crew did the painting.

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28 minutes ago, UnitedWhofans said:

I will also say this. Jermaine Kearse had a solid game yesterday. They have him for another year. Which will set up a good weapon for the new QB that's going to come in

That's the whole frickin problem. When Macc hand picks our next QB, if (and it's a big giant if) he picks a good one, who the hell has Macc stacked around him on offense to make this QB successful?? We have a shat offensive line, a shat wr group, and a shat backfield. The crowd who repeatedly chirps "this is what a rebuild looks like", what they don't understand and fail to realize is that we're AT MINIMUM 3 yrs away from being competitive. So 6 years into the Macc era we can MAYBE expect a playoff team????

That's pathetic. And don't start with fa money, Macc has proven time and again he will overpay for past their prime vets. How do I know? 20 mill in dead money, for one. And a track record of moronic moves of trading DRAFT CAPITAL for past their prime jags. Stupid. Just plain stupid. And that goes for the fans who still believe in his suckage.

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50 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

If I hired someone and I had to beg them three years to do what I hired them for I would actually fire them because of that. But hey, that's just me. 

You're not his boss - Woodrow is.  And Macc finally convinced him to drain the swamp.

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Mac seems like an intelligent guy, and I am a firm believer that you've got to "do" a job to get better at it.  

Clearly, his first two draft were not so good, but I thought he did much better this past year. And he has us positioned to have money in free agency for 2018 and, hopefully, the top pick with 2 QBs worthy of a #1 overall selection coming out (If Darnold doesn't decide he's having too much fun in college) .

While the bashing for selecting Hack is warranted... it was a desperate reach, hopefully he learned his lesson. We'll never know about Devon Smith because no one can predict injuries. Darron Lee was not really worthy of  a first round pick, but no one at that point in the draft was. Have you ever gone back and looked at the guys picked after Lee? 

1 20 NYJ Darron Lee OLB 21 2017 0 0 1 4 4 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 49   2.0 Ohio St. College Stats
1 21 HOU Will Fuller WR 22 2016 0 0 1 6 6 14 0 0 0 0 0 1 -3 0 47 635 2       Notre Dame College Stats
1 22 WAS Josh Doctson WR 23 2017 0 0 0 1 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 66 0       TCU College Stats
1 23 MIN Laquon Treadwell WR 21 2016 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 15 0       Mississippi College Stats
1 24 CIN William Jackson CB 23 2017 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2     Houston College Stats
1 25 PIT Artie Burns CB 21 2017 0 0 0 5 5 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 53 3   Miami (FL) College Stats
1 26 DEN Paxton Lynch QB 22 2016 0 0 0 1 1 3 49 83 497 2 1 11 25 0 0 0 0       Memphis College Stats
1 27 GNB Kenny Clark DT 20 2017 0 0 0 3 3 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 14     UCLA College Stats
1 28 SFO Joshua Garnett G 22 2016 0 0 1 5 5 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0       Stanford College Stats
1 29 ARI Robert Nkemdiche DT 22 2016 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0       Mississippi College Stats
1 30 CAR Vernon Butler DT 22 2016 0 0 0 1 1 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5   1.5 Louisiana Tech College Stats
1 31 SEA Germain Ifedi G 22 2017 0 0 1 6 6 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0       Texas A&M College Stats

 

So, I'm willing to let Mac continue to grow. He has shown he knows how to pick the obvious player in the first round. So, he should be OK in 2018 picking the QB. The degree of improvement in 2018 will determine his future.

 

 

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Just now, Sonny Werblin said:

Mac seems like an intelligent guy, and I am a firm believer that you've got to "do" a job to get better at it.  

Clearly, his first two draft were not so good, but I thought he did much better this past year. And he has us positioned to have money in free agency for 2018 and, hopefully, the top pick with 2 QBs worthy of a #1 overall selection coming out (If Darnold doesn't decide he's having too much fun in college) .

While the bashing for selecting Hack is warranted... it was a desperate reach, hopefully he learned his lesson. We'll never know about Devon Smith because no one can predict injuries. Darron Lee was not really worthy of  a first round pick, but no one at that point in the draft was. Have you ever gone back and looked at the guys picked after Lee? 

1 20 NYJ Darron Lee OLB 21 2017 0 0 1 4 4 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 49   2.0 Ohio St. College Stats
1 21 HOU Will Fuller WR 22 2016 0 0 1 6 6 14 0 0 0 0 0 1 -3 0 47 635 2       Notre Dame College Stats
1 22 WAS Josh Doctson WR 23 2017 0 0 0 1 1 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 66 0       TCU College Stats
1 23 MIN Laquon Treadwell WR 21 2016 0 0 0 0 0 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 15 0       Mississippi College Stats
1 24 CIN William Jackson CB 23 2017 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2     Houston College Stats
1 25 PIT Artie Burns CB 21 2017 0 0 0 5 5 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 53 3   Miami (FL) College Stats
1 26 DEN Paxton Lynch QB 22 2016 0 0 0 1 1 3 49 83 497 2 1 11 25 0 0 0 0       Memphis College Stats
1 27 GNB Kenny Clark DT 20 2017 0 0 0 3 3 17 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 14     UCLA College Stats
1 28 SFO Joshua Garnett G 22 2016 0 0 1 5 5 15 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0       Stanford College Stats
1 29 ARI Robert Nkemdiche DT 22 2016 0 0 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0       Mississippi College Stats
1 30 CAR Vernon Butler DT 22 2016 0 0 0 1 1 10 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 5   1.5 Louisiana Tech College Stats
1 31 SEA Germain Ifedi G 22 2017 0 0 1 6 6 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0       Texas A&M College Stats

 

So, I'm willing to let Mac continue to grow. He has shown he knows how to pick the obvious player in the first round. So, he should be OK in 2018 picking the QB. The degree of improvement in 2018 will determine his future.

 

 

Plus if the team is bad then its Bowleses fault anyway

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3 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Yeah it's no win so he should stop trying, and so should all of the players. 

The Rams were just as bad as the Jets in 98. Of course we're asking for a miracle here, but we're just asking for a chance for a miracle.

You can't catch lightning in a bottle unless you open the bottle and hold it out.

I guarantee you that if Bowles is the head coach Kurt Warner never sees the field. 

Uh, if Dick Vermeil is the HC then Kurt Warner never sees the field. Not unless someone first rips Trent Green's knee ligaments to confetti during the final preseason game. Green was 1st string, Warner was 2nd string. 

After the 1998 season the Rams were rebuilding (not the least of which, entailed the acquisition of Green and Faulk); after the 2016 the Jets were in teardown mode and replaced more than a handful of starters with Beachum and Claiborne. Bruce was 27 and already established; they used their 6th overall pick on Torry Holt not of a safety; their LT was a 1st team all pro they (cheaply) traded up to draft #1 overall 2 yrs earlier; they already had a RT and a G and C plus added another starting guard in '99;  they had a young, demon outside pass rusher on one side and drafted another solid starting end for the other side the prior year; they found London Fletcher the prior year as an UDFA rather than burning a #1 pick on the likes of Darron Lee; they had 2 veteran starter corners, and found their ballhawk safety in round 3 a few years earlier.

The only thing these 2 teams have in common is they both had lousy W/L records the prior season. The similarities end there. 

I don't know how a football fan can possibly look at this Jets roster, then look at the 1999 Rams' Superbowl winning roster, and conclude that the difference between the two is as simple as you claim. Because of their respective rosters, the '99 were expected to be a competitive team with Trent Green; the Jets were never expected to be competitive with anybody at QB.

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24 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Plus if the team is bad then its Bowleses fault anyway

Bowles is doing a pretty terrible job...  I don't blame him for the offensive woes but this is HIS D.  His reluctance to fire his buddy Kacey may lead to his destruction.

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19 hours ago, Philc1 said:

His drafts suck.  $20 million in dead cap room. He cannot evaluate the qb position at all.  How on Earth can some jets fans still want this guy picking our qb next Spring?

The only time we ever drafted a good QB was when Parcells chose Chad Pennington in 2000. Even Broadway Joe - if you look at his career in total - really wasn't a good QB. Macc is just another in a long line of GMs desperate for a franchise QB. We can finally get one in 2018, so we shouldn't complain.

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7 minutes ago, Freemanm said:

The only time we ever drafted a good QB was when Parcells chose Chad Pennington in 2000. Even Broadway Joe - if you look at his career in total - really wasn't a good QB. Macc is just another in a long line of GMs desperate for a franchise QB. We can finally get one in 2018, so we shouldn't complain.

I think he's addressing the notion that these prospects aren't all going to pan out and become (good) franchise QBs, and our GM hasn't proven worthy of discerning the trash from the treasure.

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59 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

It was Idzik's fault that the team was bad when he was here, because he was bad. Its not Maccc's fault the team is bad, because Maccc is good. Try to keep up

It's even worse than that.

Mac is good, Bowles is bad.

Therefore, bad things that are currently happening are because of Bowles, because Bowles is bad, not because of Mac, because he is good.  Naturally, anything good about this team is because of Mac, who is good, and in spite of Bowles, who is bad.

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24 minutes ago, gEYno said:

It's even worse than that.

Mac is good, Bowles is bad.

Therefore, bad things that are currently happening are because of Bowles, because Bowles is bad, not because of Mac, because he is good.  Naturally, anything good about this team is because of Mac, who is good, and in spite of Bowles, who is bad.

It's amazing. A perfect inversion of the Idzik-Rex arguments, and made by the exact same people to boot.

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Bowles is doing a pretty terrible job...  I don't blame him for the offensive woes but this is HIS D.  His reluctance to fire his buddy Kacey may lead to his destruction.

Imagine what this defense would look like if we would have hired jim shwartz as our dc instead of kacey Rodgers. Bowles wouldn't have to worry about the defense and could maybe attempt to work at being a better head coach instead of worrying about making excuses to keep his friend employed.

Sent from my LGUS991 using JetNation.com mobile app

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35 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Yeah, but, like, while I've been busy 'whining' for the last decade, you've been busy being wrong about everything.

haha..  funny but couldn't be further from the truth.  

My predictions have a 94% accuracy rating since 2010.

One of the only things I was wrong about was there would be less whiny bitches this decade.

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