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Colin Kaepernick is being blackballed, and I'm very upset about it


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3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

I had no idea you were such a guru of following employment law cases.  If Kaepernick is making your life so miserable tell Congress to draft legislation to have people who don’t stand for the national anthem to be arrested

That’s actually a brilliant idea, how do I make that request to Congress? Do you have a link to the web form?

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1 hour ago, NoBowles said:

I was born and raised in Israel, English is my second language, so with all due respect, and I mean ALL due respect, I’m not overly concerned about my spelling and grammar in a Jets message board, typed on an iPhone... now, if I was on one of those all important and wise sub Reddit’s, I’d elevate my game, because that’s really important.

No disrespect intended, homey. 

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11 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

According to the 2013 FBI Crime Report, that year the number of blacks killed by whites was at approximately 0.77 per 1,000,000 blacks, while the number of whites killed by blacks was at 9.83 per 1,000,000 whites.

I saw you originally cite "the American Renaissance" website with this data last night before I went to sleep, now you've cut out the middle-man and went directly to the FBI source (which your link, btw, doesn't exactly bring me directly to this statistic either... poor form fella, poor form); hey at least you're ashamed of reading/citing the American Renaissance website - that's a start I guess?

But say, for the sake of argument, that it's correct (and that 2013 wasn't some weird deviation from the norm) - does that mean racism in our nation's police force doesn't exist?  Or that unarmed blacks are being shot at a far higher rate than unarmed whites (a signifier of inherent and systemic prejudice when you use state sanctioned deadly force on someone who does not have a weapon far more on one race of people than another) doesn't matter?  Or that the recent horrifying videos of these shootings that have went viral (and the subsequent acquittals of the police officers) doesn't smell a lot like injustice?  

I mean, I think you'd have to be extremely PC to say that the black community doesn't have its problems.  And I think you'd have to be extremely ignorant to say that systemic racism isn't part of American life; especially so for blacks.  I might not like the way Kaep protested; but goddam it seems like every time someone in the black community tries to point out racism someone not from that community has to bring up crime rates in black neighborhoods as I guess a reason to say "yea!? well here's why!" as if to say "until you get your act together as a race, we'll continue to treat all of you as a threat!"

By the way, is there way to search for murders committed by socio-economic status?  Do you think race is the best breakdown or maybe is there an economic element too?

I don't know; I need a sandwich.  My advice to you is to stop reading the American Renaissance... And when you cite something; have it link directly to the piece of information you're looking to convey; because right now I click on your link and see this:

Screen Shot 2017-11-04 at 12.26.10 PM.png

Because now you're making me do all the work; and maybe you didn't see the statistics about us redheads, but we're lazy...

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10 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I saw you originally cite "the American Renaissance" website with this data last night before I went to sleep, now you've cut out the middle-man and went directly to the FBI source (which your link, btw, doesn't exactly bring me directly to this statistic either... poor form fella, poor form); hey at least you're ashamed of reading/citing the American Renaissance website - that's a start I guess?

But say, for the sake of argument, that it's correct (and that 2013 wasn't some weird deviation from the norm) - does that mean racism in our nation's police force doesn't exist?  Or that unarmed blacks are being shot at a far higher rate than unarmed whites (a signifier of inherent and systemic prejudice when you use state sanctioned deadly force on someone who does not have a weapon far more on one race of people than another) doesn't matter?  Or that the recent horrifying videos of these shootings that have went viral (and the subsequent acquittals of the police officers) doesn't smell a lot like injustice?  

I mean, I think you'd have to be extremely PC to say that the black community doesn't have its problems.  And I think you'd have to be extremely ignorant to say that systemic racism isn't part of American life; especially so if for blacks.  I might not like the way the Kaep protested; but goddam it seems like every time someone in the black community tries to point out racism someone not from that community has to bring up crime rates in black neighborhoods as I guess a reason to say "yea!? well here's why!" as if to say "until you get your act together as a race, we'll continue to treat all of you as a threat!"

By the way, is there way to search for murders committed by socio-economic status?  Do you think race is the best breakdown or maybe is there an economic element too?

I don't know; I need a sandwich.  My advice to you is to stop reading the American Renaissance... And when you cite something; have it link directly to the piece of information you're looking to convey; because right now I look click you link and see this:

Screen Shot 2017-11-04 at 12.26.10 PM.png

Because now you're making me do all the work; and maybe you didn't see the statistics about us redheads, but we're lazy...

I don't disagree with anything you say, and I think there are, of course issues in this country that need to be worked out, and should be addressed and should be focussed on.

My problem is with the generalization that goes on. As humans we are supposed to progress, and move forward, and not judge in groups but rather as individuals, and not stereotype, and I 1000% agree with that. BUT, why then is it OK for Colin, or others, to stereotype all cops as bad people, and use pig socks? I mean, its incredibly hypocritical no? I have a lot of friends and family who are on the force, and they are good, hardworking people, and if most people understood the hell they go through on a regular basis, they would be shocked. I honestly believe the majority of police are good people, but just like any other group that you can slice and dice in any way, there will always be bad apples. And, just like I don't like to stereotype any ethnicity, race, gender, religion based on a few bad apples, I don't think its fair to stereotype a group like the police, especially when your trying to make a stand against that very thing. 

That is where this stuff completely loses me. To me, it comes across as incredibly hypocritical. 

If Colin would have been in Ferguson, or in any of the areas where there were legit issues, protesting individual situations, I think most people would have zero issue at all, but that is not what he did. He generalized, just like we are not supposed to do, and in the process offended good people who did nothing wrong, and do things the right way. If we are going to progress as a nation, as a species, we need to have the same set of rules, or it will never work.

Finally, what his girlfriend did to the Ravens owner was completely uncalled for, and disgraceful. If he really wants to make a change in this country, that BS has to stop. Do you think MLK would have done something like that, or his wife? Absolutely not!

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21 minutes ago, NoBowles said:

I don't disagree with anything you say, and I think there are, of course issues in this country that need to be worked out, and should be addressed and should be focussed on.

My problem is with the generalization that goes on. As humans we are supposed to progress, and move forward, and not judge in groups but rather as individuals, and not stereotype, and I 1000% agree with that. BUT, why then is it OK for Colin, or others, to stereotype all cops as bad people, and use pig socks? I mean, its incredibly hypocritical no? I have a lot of friends and family who are on the force, and they are good, hardworking people, and if most people understood the hell they go through on a regular basis, they would be shocked. I honestly believe the majority of police are good people, but just like any other group that you can slice and dice in any way, there will always be bad apples. And, just like I don't like to stereotype any ethnicity, race, gender, religion based on a few bad apples, I don't think its fair to stereotype a group like the police, especially when your trying to make a stand against that very thing. 

That is where this stuff completely loses me. To me, it comes across as incredibly hypocritical. 

If Colin would have been in Ferguson, or in any of the areas where there were legit issues, protesting individual situations, I think most people would have zero issue at all, but that is not what he did. He generalized, just like we are not supposed to do, and in the process offended good people who did nothing wrong, and do things the right way. If we are going to progress as a nation, as a species, we need to have the same set of rules, or it will never work.

Finally, what his girlfriend did to the Ravens owner was completely uncalled for, and disgraceful. If he really wants to make a change in this country, that BS has to stop. Do you think MLK would have done something like that, or his wife? Absolutely not!

Listen I think we agree on most things; i.e. most cops are solid people doing a difficult job, systemic racism is a reality and Colin Kaepernick could've (and should've) chosen a better way (more convincing, that is, to a wider audience) to voice his protest.  I don't know what his girlfriend did.  

It's nice to find to common ground, NoBowles.  Good post.  

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49 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I saw you originally cite "the American Renaissance" website with this data last night before I went to sleep, now you've cut out the middle-man and went directly to the FBI source (which your link, btw, doesn't exactly bring me directly to this statistic either... poor form fella, poor form); hey at least you're ashamed of reading/citing the American Renaissance website - that's a start I guess?

But say, for the sake of argument, that it's correct..................................

The American Renaissance. I would lol but that crap is no joke and is basically a newsletter for the KKK.

Sartre said it best... Hell is other people.

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4 hours ago, roscoeword said:

The NFL is dying of Colin cancer

Admit I did laugh for about 1/2 of a second  before I really thought about it  ... But bro ... C'mom man 

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6 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I saw you originally cite "the American Renaissance" website with this data last night before I went to sleep, now you've cut out the middle-man and went directly to the FBI source (which your link, btw, doesn't exactly bring me directly to this statistic either... poor form fella, poor form); hey at least you're ashamed of reading/citing the American Renaissance website - that's a start I guess?

But say, for the sake of argument, that it's correct (and that 2013 wasn't some weird deviation from the norm) - does that mean racism in our nation's police force doesn't exist?  Or that unarmed blacks are being shot at a far higher rate than unarmed whites (a signifier of inherent and systemic prejudice when you use state sanctioned deadly force on someone who does not have a weapon far more on one race of people than another) doesn't matter?  Or that the recent horrifying videos of these shootings that have went viral (and the subsequent acquittals of the police officers) doesn't smell a lot like injustice?  

I mean, I think you'd have to be extremely PC to say that the black community doesn't have its problems.  And I think you'd have to be extremely ignorant to say that systemic racism isn't part of American life; especially so for blacks.  I might not like the way Kaep protested; but goddam it seems like every time someone in the black community tries to point out racism someone not from that community has to bring up crime rates in black neighborhoods as I guess a reason to say "yea!? well here's why!" as if to say "until you get your act together as a race, we'll continue to treat all of you as a threat!"

By the way, is there way to search for murders committed by socio-economic status?  Do you think race is the best breakdown or maybe is there an economic element too?

I don't know; I need a sandwich.  My advice to you is to stop reading the American Renaissance... And when you cite something; have it link directly to the piece of information you're looking to convey; because right now I click on your link and see this:

Screen Shot 2017-11-04 at 12.26.10 PM.png

Because now you're making me do all the work; and maybe you didn't see the statistics about us redheads, but we're lazy...

Of course theres a socioeconomic connection. And of course racism exists as well

But the truth is, the black community indeed needs to get  their act together.

Appilacian whites are poor as sh*t, but they dont kill each other and exhibit buffoonery. Neither do piss poor Caribbean and african blacks. 

Its very hard to take a ghetto thug seriously when hes on welfare, fathered 6 kids that he doesnt support, walks around with his pants down and has some silly nickname. Sorry. Respect is earned... 

That being said, id love to see a public execution  of every one of those cops caught on tape blatantly murdering them. 

So its a big mess

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7 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I saw you originally cite "the American Renaissance" website with this data last night before I went to sleep, now you've cut out the middle-man and went directly to the FBI source (which your link, btw, doesn't exactly bring me directly to this statistic either... poor form fella, poor form); hey at least you're ashamed of reading/citing the American Renaissance website - that's a start I guess?

But say, for the sake of argument, that it's correct (and that 2013 wasn't some weird deviation from the norm) - does that mean racism in our nation's police force doesn't exist?  Or that unarmed blacks are being shot at a far higher rate than unarmed whites (a signifier of inherent and systemic prejudice when you use state sanctioned deadly force on someone who does not have a weapon far more on one race of people than another) doesn't matter?  Or that the recent horrifying videos of these shootings that have went viral (and the subsequent acquittals of the police officers) doesn't smell a lot like injustice?  

I mean, I think you'd have to be extremely PC to say that the black community doesn't have its problems.  And I think you'd have to be extremely ignorant to say that systemic racism isn't part of American life; especially so for blacks.  I might not like the way Kaep protested; but goddam it seems like every time someone in the black community tries to point out racism someone not from that community has to bring up crime rates in black neighborhoods as I guess a reason to say "yea!? well here's why!" as if to say "until you get your act together as a race, we'll continue to treat all of you as a threat!"

By the way, is there way to search for murders committed by socio-economic status?  Do you think race is the best breakdown or maybe is there an economic element too?

I don't know; I need a sandwich.  My advice to you is to stop reading the American Renaissance... And when you cite something; have it link directly to the piece of information you're looking to convey; because right now I click on your link and see this:

Screen Shot 2017-11-04 at 12.26.10 PM.png

Because now you're making me do all the work; and maybe you didn't see the statistics about us redheads, but we're lazy...

I saw it was a poor source, but don't let facts stand in the way.   

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7 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I saw you originally cite "the American Renaissance" website with this data last night before I went to sleep, now you've cut out the middle-man and went directly to the FBI source (which your link, btw, doesn't exactly bring me directly to this statistic either... poor form fella, poor form); hey at least you're ashamed of reading/citing the American Renaissance website - that's a start I guess?

But say, for the sake of argument, that it's correct (and that 2013 wasn't some weird deviation from the norm) - does that mean racism in our nation's police force doesn't exist?  Or that unarmed blacks are being shot at a far higher rate than unarmed whites (a signifier of inherent and systemic prejudice when you use state sanctioned deadly force on someone who does not have a weapon far more on one race of people than another) doesn't matter?  Or that the recent horrifying videos of these shootings that have went viral (and the subsequent acquittals of the police officers) doesn't smell a lot like injustice?  

I mean, I think you'd have to be extremely PC to say that the black community doesn't have its problems.  And I think you'd have to be extremely ignorant to say that systemic racism isn't part of American life; especially so for blacks.  I might not like the way Kaep protested; but goddam it seems like every time someone in the black community tries to point out racism someone not from that community has to bring up crime rates in black neighborhoods as I guess a reason to say "yea!? well here's why!" as if to say "until you get your act together as a race, we'll continue to treat all of you as a threat!"

By the way, is there way to search for murders committed by socio-economic status?  Do you think race is the best breakdown or maybe is there an economic element too?

I don't know; I need a sandwich.  My advice to you is to stop reading the American Renaissance... And when you cite something; have it link directly to the piece of information you're looking to convey; because right now I click on your link and see this:

Screen Shot 2017-11-04 at 12.26.10 PM.png

Because now you're making me do all the work; and maybe you didn't see the statistics about us redheads, but we're lazy...

You have to watch google.  I couldn't cite a source from a white supremacy linked site.  I hate the KKK just as much as I hate BLM.  Both are @#$%.

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12 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

I saw it was a poor source, but don't let facts stand in the way.   

 

7 minutes ago, Fantasy Island said:

You have to watch google.  I couldn't cite a source from a white supremacy linked site.  I hate the KKK just as much as I hate BLM.  Both are @#$%.

Alright, it was a bad source and a mistake; fair enough.  But I went on to respond to the stats anyway; I'm not interested in being one of those people that immediately shuts down a dialogue over something like that.  

 

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7 hours ago, NoBowles said:

I don't disagree with anything you say, and I think there are, of course issues in this country that need to be worked out, and should be addressed and should be focussed on.

My problem is with the generalization that goes on. As humans we are supposed to progress, and move forward, and not judge in groups but rather as individuals, and not stereotype, and I 1000% agree with that. BUT, why then is it OK for Colin, or others, to stereotype all cops as bad people, and use pig socks? I mean, its incredibly hypocritical no? I have a lot of friends and family who are on the force, and they are good, hardworking people, and if most people understood the hell they go through on a regular basis, they would be shocked. I honestly believe the majority of police are good people, but just like any other group that you can slice and dice in any way, there will always be bad apples. And, just like I don't like to stereotype any ethnicity, race, gender, religion based on a few bad apples, I don't think its fair to stereotype a group like the police, especially when your trying to make a stand against that very thing. 

That is where this stuff completely loses me. To me, it comes across as incredibly hypocritical. 

If Colin would have been in Ferguson, or in any of the areas where there were legit issues, protesting individual situations, I think most people would have zero issue at all, but that is not what he did. He generalized, just like we are not supposed to do, and in the process offended good people who did nothing wrong, and do things the right way. If we are going to progress as a nation, as a species, we need to have the same set of rules, or it will never work.

Finally, what his girlfriend did to the Ravens owner was completely uncalled for, and disgraceful. If he really wants to make a change in this country, that BS has to stop. Do you think MLK would have done something like that, or his wife? Absolutely not!

http://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article182651026.html

maybe

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11 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Huh? So Kaepernick’s one grievance is going to invalidate  the entire CBA?  How does that work out

Math and what not and some law thingie and then... A MIRACLE HAPPENS. Or something. 

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8 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I saw you originally cite "the American Renaissance" website with this data last night before I went to sleep, now you've cut out the middle-man and went directly to the FBI source (which your link, btw, doesn't exactly bring me directly to this statistic either... poor form fella, poor form); hey at least you're ashamed of reading/citing the American Renaissance website - that's a start I guess?

But say, for the sake of argument, that it's correct (and that 2013 wasn't some weird deviation from the norm) - does that mean racism in our nation's police force doesn't exist?  Or that unarmed blacks are being shot at a far higher rate than unarmed whites (a signifier of inherent and systemic prejudice when you use state sanctioned deadly force on someone who does not have a weapon far more on one race of people than another) doesn't matter?  Or that the recent horrifying videos of these shootings that have went viral (and the subsequent acquittals of the police officers) doesn't smell a lot like injustice?  

I mean, I think you'd have to be extremely PC to say that the black community doesn't have its problems.  And I think you'd have to be extremely ignorant to say that systemic racism isn't part of American life; especially so for blacks.  I might not like the way Kaep protested; but goddam it seems like every time someone in the black community tries to point out racism someone not from that community has to bring up crime rates in black neighborhoods as I guess a reason to say "yea!? well here's why!" as if to say "until you get your act together as a race, we'll continue to treat all of you as a threat!"

By the way, is there way to search for murders committed by socio-economic status?  Do you think race is the best breakdown or maybe is there an economic element too?

I don't know; I need a sandwich.  My advice to you is to stop reading the American Renaissance... And when you cite something; have it link directly to the piece of information you're looking to convey; because right now I click on your link and see this:

Screen Shot 2017-11-04 at 12.26.10 PM.png

Because now you're making me do all the work; and maybe you didn't see the statistics about us redheads, but we're lazy...

Define "unarmed". Legally a police officer is allowed to use deadly physical force when he or she reasonably believes a person's actions endanger his life or the lives of others.  That does not necessarily mean a firearm. By your very incorrect logic, for example, the terrorist NYPD shot would not have been justified because he had a BB gun and a paintball gun that looked real. In fact I can tell you "professionally" both the Manhattan DA's office and the US Attorney's office have already determined their actions were legally justified.

In fact the vast overwhelming majority of police shootings are totally legally justified. That's determined by the local DA or sometimes the US Attorney in the specific jurisdiction, not police themselves. You stats assume each and every police shooting is unjustified, which is ridiculous. So when you start with "cops killed..." anyone there are only a very small number of those cases that are questionable. And those are invariably fully investigated in most jurisdictions as above. May be there are some jurisdictions(down south, may be?)  where the DA and the police are attached at the hip, but it's usually much more adversarial than it was even 20 years ago.

There are bad cops; I met Mike Dowd "professionally" in my misspent youth and some others I would not discuss here. But no cop starts his 8 hour tour with the idea he's going to kill someone. These days when it goes bad it's more often a failure of training and screening, like the Peter Liang case in Brooklyn. Guy should never have been a cop, his training was inadequate and putting him with a gun in an East New York housing project in the middle of the night was gross negligence. 

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13 hours ago, Bugg said:

Define "unarmed". Legally a police officer is allowed to use deadly physical force when he or she reasonably believes a person's actions endanger his life or the lives of others.  That does not necessarily mean a firearm. By your very incorrect logic, for example, the terrorist NYPD shot would not have been justified because he had a BB gun and a paintball gun that looked real. In fact I can tell you "professionally" both the Manhattan DA's office and the US Attorney's office have already determined their actions were legally justified.

In fact the vast overwhelming majority of police shootings are totally legally justified. That's determined by the local DA or sometimes the US Attorney in the specific jurisdiction, not police themselves. You stats assume each and every police shooting is unjustified, which is ridiculous. So when you start with "cops killed..." anyone there are only a very small number of those cases that are questionable. And those are invariably fully investigated in most jurisdictions as above. May be there are some jurisdictions(down south, may be?)  where the DA and the police are attached at the hip, but it's usually much more adversarial than it was even 20 years ago.

There are bad cops; I met Mike Dowd "professionally" in my misspent youth and some others I would not discuss here. But no cop starts his 8 hour tour with the idea he's going to kill someone. These days when it goes bad it's more often a failure of training and screening, like the Peter Liang case in Brooklyn. Guy should never have been a cop, his training was inadequate and putting him with a gun in an East New York housing project in the middle of the night was gross negligence. 

Well, I didn't come up with the logic or define unarmed; I cited a study from the Washington Post.  Another poster cited a study done by Harvard and published in the NYT which brought different information.  

But I'll take a stab at responding anyway... The terrorist in NYC was using a vehicle as a deadly weapon; that to me and probably most people reading this, would not be considered unarmed.  I don't know where "my stats assumed every police shooting is unjustified" because again, the data I cite is courtesy of a an exhaustive collection by the WaPo (not "my stats"); and somehow illustrating the difference in likelihood between police shooting unarmed blacks vs unarmed whites is not saying every police shooting is unjustified... but I am saying, as I think it's fair to do and not particularly hard on police, that the shooting of unarmed citizens by police officers should require even more of a burden on the police officer to prove that he was in danger seeing as the only threat on their life was seemingly coming from the person they shot, who had no weapon.  Again we're not talking about a terrorist running over people like Paris or Central Park; I would argue that fella's deadly weapon was his vehicle.  

You've probably seen the videos online of people getting pulled over, being told to produce license and reg, and then upon reaching for the glove or inside the dash, are shot by police officers.  We've seen a lot of those videos from dash cams or unfortunately from the girlfriend riding shotgun in that one video.  It seems to happen more to black people than whites; and it seems the cops are acquitted more than not, and that's why I think people like Colin Kaepernick and BLM, even if I think they're misguided, have a point.

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