Maccagnan Brownie Points

[CrazyCarl40]

Can this thread be changed to cupcake points, since that’s his go to?

[Sperm Edwards]

5 hours ago, ECURB said:

Since 2015 draft

Jets drafted 29 players - 17 played in 2018 - 59%

Pats drafted 33 players - 22 played in 2018 - 67%

The draft is a crapshoot when 8% separates the best from the worst.

Now factor in where each team is typically slotted in the draft. It would be a more accurate comparison if you outright removed all three top-6 picks from the Jets and then re-compared, since our very high 2nd rounders are closer to the Pats' very low 1st rounders than are our very high 1st rounders. Then remove a handful of their picks outside the top 200, and re-compare.

Since 2015 NE has drafted 3 players in the top 50. Call it top 56 even just to account for the one they had picked in that slot this year.

• NE: 4 players taken in the top 56, and zero of them taken in the top 20. 
• NYJ: 7 players taken in the top 56, and 4 of them taken in the top 20 (3 of those 4 in the top 6 overall). Of these, the only ones still playing in 2018 are the ones taken in the top 20, plus Marcus Maye who was just drafted last year and only played in 6 games in 2018. .

Literally 12 of their 33 players drafted were taken outside the top 200 overall selections. The Jets? Just 5 (not even half as many). 

Sure the draft is a crapshoot...if you're the only person on earth who values lower 6th rounders and 7th rounders exactly the same as top 6 overall selections.

C'mon, man.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, rangerous said:

hmmm....maybe but on the other hand when bowles had a qb who was playing well and some decent receivers like in 2015 the team did play pretty well.  but then you look at the things when the defense gave up leads or the poor clock management or even the uninspiring play calling and maybe mac is better than bowles.  mac needs to nail a couple of drafts and make some good free agent pickups before he should get any real accolades.

Bowles is bad at things that affect individual games.

Macc is bad at things that create seismic shifts for the future of the franchise. 

So even if you can say that Bowles is worse at his job than Macc is at his, it doesn't matter.  Because what the GM does is far more important.  The GM needs to pick good players that can succeed in just about any system or under just about any HC.  He needs to establish the franchise's direction and needs to think 5 years ahead.  When you suck at doing that, it sets you back for years.  Maybe even a decade. 

[RutgersJetFan]

3 hours ago, Pac said:

incidental exaggeration

You? Never.

[RutgersJetFan]

17 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Now factor in where each team is typically slotted in the draft. It would be a more accurate comparison if you outright removed all three top-6 picks from the Jets and then re-compared, since our very high 2nd rounders are closer to the Pats' very low 1st rounders than are our very high 1st rounders. Then remove a handful of their picks outside the top 200, and re-compare.

Since 2015 NE has drafted 3 players in the top 50. Call it top 56 even just to account for the one they had picked in that slot this year.

• NE: 4 players taken in the top 56, and zero of them taken in the top 20. 
• NYJ: 7 players taken in the top 56, and 4 of them taken in the top 20 (3 of those 4 in the top 6 overall). Of these, the only ones still playing in 2018 are the ones taken in the top 20, plus Marcus Maye who was just drafted last year and only played in 6 games in 2018. .

Literally 12 of their 33 players drafted were taken outside the top 200 overall selections. The Jets? Just 5 (not even half as many). 

Sure the draft is a crapshoot...if you're the only person on earth who values lower 6th rounders and 7th rounders exactly the same as top 6 overall selections.

C'mon, man.

To be fair, if we're talking context ECURB spent an entire year yelling at everyone that Derrick Rose was better than Lebron James. This thread is actually progress for him.

[Sperm Edwards]

11 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

To be fair, if we're talking context ECURB spent an entire year yelling at everyone that Derrick Rose was better than Lebron James. This thread is actually progress for him.

Wut?

[kevinc855]

7 hours ago, TeddEY said:

In 4 years, he took a 4-12 team to 4-12.  His drafts have resulted in the least active NFL players of any GM over that time period, and that is with typically high picks.

So, if that is impatient, what would patient be?

And, if that is “above average,” what would “bad” be?

He did make a trade that resulted in Sam Darnold, but the Darnold part was luck.  If he really was all-in on Darnold, he should have gone to 1.  We could just as easily have Allen/Rosen right now.

He wasn’t he wanted baker and that’s workin out pretty nice 

[rangerous]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Now factor in where each team is typically slotted in the draft. It would be a more accurate comparison if you outright removed all three top-6 picks from the Jets and then re-compared, since our very high 2nd rounders are closer to the Pats' very low 1st rounders than are our very high 1st rounders. Then remove a handful of their picks outside the top 200, and re-compare.

Since 2015 NE has drafted 3 players in the top 50. Call it top 56 even just to account for the one they had picked in that slot this year.

• NE: 4 players taken in the top 56, and zero of them taken in the top 20. 
• NYJ: 7 players taken in the top 56, and 4 of them taken in the top 20 (3 of those 4 in the top 6 overall). Of these, the only ones still playing in 2018 are the ones taken in the top 20, plus Marcus Maye who was just drafted last year and only played in 6 games in 2018. .

Literally 12 of their 33 players drafted were taken outside the top 200 overall selections. The Jets? Just 5 (not even half as many). 

Sure the draft is a crapshoot...if you're the only person on earth who values lower 6th rounders and 7th rounders exactly the same as top 6 overall selections.

C'mon, man.

excellent points.  higher draft picks should translate into higher ability and potential nfl players.  that's why the players are scouted in the first place.  what i see mac doing is trying to get these "value" guys or guys with tarnished reputations that should've, would've could've been taken with a much higher draft pick.  that strategy may be okay for the lower rounds but the top two rounds, at least, need to be near locks.

[ZachEY]

44 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

He wasn’t he wanted baker and that’s workin out pretty nice 

If he wanted Baker, his half measure failed as well.  Still, the Jets are one smarter decision from the Giants away from Allen/Rosen.

Anyway, you forgot to answer the two questions I asked...

[jeremy2020]

Jets lose a close game and all of the sudden some people think they're good.

[Sperm Edwards]

29 minutes ago, rangerous said:

excellent points.  higher draft picks should translate into higher ability and potential nfl players.  that's why the players are scouted in the first place.  what i see mac doing is trying to get these "value" guys or guys with tarnished reputations that should've, would've could've been taken with a much higher draft pick.  that strategy may be okay for the lower rounds but the top two rounds, at least, need to be near locks.

But yeah the draft is a total crapshoot, lol.

Therefore we've been stupid to not trade down and accumulate 20 picks per year. So what if they're all in the 4th-7th rounds, amirite?

 

[kevinc855]

55 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

If he wanted Baker, his half measure failed as well.  Still, the Jets are one smarter decision from the Giants away from Allen/Rosen.

Anyway, you forgot to answer the two questions I asked...

Oh you are hopeless. No one saw the browns taking him at 1 till the last few days as a maybe. Where were you?

[Bleedin Green]

25 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Oh you are hopeless. No one saw the browns taking him at 1 till the last few days as a maybe. Where were you?

What exactly do you think the argument you're making here is?  The point is that the trade made became entirely dependent on the decisions of two other teams to dictate what they would even be able to do.  So that means the outcome was either:

1.  Macc was hoping to get Mayfield, as you suggest, and ultimately failed in his attempt to do so.

OR

2.  Macc wanted Darnold, and happened to get lucky he was still there.

Neither of these outcomes merit any great praise, considering this easily could have resulted in the Jets ending up with Rosen/Allen instead of either one.

[Bowles Movement]

10 hours ago, jamesr said:

I'd argue it's proportionally harder to crack an established successful line-up than one that has done zero in the same time frame.

There's truth to that and the Pats also draft later than the Jets, but the Pats have had plenty of early round misses too.  Didnt we give a try out to a high draft pick (2) offensive tackle that the Pats traded up for and waived after one year?  Is that any better than Hackenberg?  I know we had a visit with a third rd QB that they drafted named O'Connell? that didnt work out either.  Ryan Mallett another swing and miss.  and thats off the top of my head.

[#27TheDominator]

17 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

There's truth to that and the Pats also draft later than the Jets, but the Pats have had plenty of early round misses too.  Didnt we give a try out to a high draft pick (2) offensive tackle that the Pats traded up for and waived after one year?  Is that any better than Hackenberg?  I know we had a visit with a third rd QB that they drafted named O'Connell? that didnt work out either.  Ryan Mallett another swing and miss.  and thats off the top of my head.

Are you guys still going on with this sh*t?  It makes about as much sense as blaming Mac for sh*t that Dick Steinberg did.  

1. The Pats are sh*tty drafters.  They spend a bunch of draft stock on boom/bust guys because they already have a solid roster.  A solid unspectacular guy isn't likely to help them much so they take shots on guys.  Dominique Easley for instance. Maybe compare us to some other sh*tty teams like the Bills and Dolphins.  I bet we do not rank with them.  The Pats still only have about 3 guys out of the league during Mac's tenure with the Jets.

2. The Pats not only pick later than us annually, but their roster does not suck.  They do not have the luxury of carrying sh*t like Burris, Hansen, Stewart, etc.  See above.

3. At least one of Maccagnan's best moves was picking up a 7th rounder the Pats waived, hoping to stash him on their practice squad - Darryl Roberts. 

4.  The tackle prospect was Antonio Garcia.  He was a third, 6 picks after Ardarius Stewart,  He was a small school guy that had an illness that caused him to lose a ton of weight.  For guys that make excuses for all of Mac's picks, the guy was a lottery ticket.  The Pats realized he wasn't a winner and moved on.  We are the ones trying to find winners with previously scratched tickets.  Kevin O'Connell was an actual decade ago.  Eleven drafts ago.  The Pats moved on from him because they had Brady and Hoyer and we traded the Lions a draft pick for him. Mallet was the Pats backup QB for 3 years.  They drafted Garoppolo in 2014 and traded Mallet to Houston for a 6th.  Seems like a decent value to me and I'm assuming that you don't want to use Garoppolo in this silly comparison. 

  

[Bowles Movement]

14 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Are you guys still going on with this sh*t?  It makes about as much sense as blaming Mac for sh*t that Dick Steinberg did.  

1. The Pats are sh*tty drafters.  They spend a bunch of draft stock on boom/bust guys because they already have a solid roster.  A solid unspectacular guy isn't likely to help them much so they take shots on guys.  Dominique Easley for instance. Maybe compare us to some other sh*tty teams like the Bills and Dolphins.  I bet we do not rank with them.  The Pats still only have about 3 guys out of the league during Mac's tenure with the Jets.

2. The Pats not only pick later than us annually, but their roster does not suck.  They do not have the luxury of carrying sh*t like Burris, Hansen, Stewart, etc.  See above.

3. At least one of Maccagnan's best moves was picking up a 7th rounder the Pats waived, hoping to stash him on their practice squad - Darryl Roberts. 

4.  The tackle prospect was Antonio Garcia.  He was a third, 6 picks after Ardarius Stewart,  He was a small school guy that had an illness that caused him to lose a ton of weight.  For guys that make excuses for all of Mac's picks, the guy was a lottery ticket.  The Pats realized he wasn't a winner and moved on.  We are the ones trying to find winners with previously scratched tickets.  Kevin O'Connell was an actual decade ago.  Eleven drafts ago.  The Pats moved on from him because they had Brady and Hoyer and we traded the Lions a draft pick for him. Mallet was the Pats backup QB for 3 years.  They drafted Garoppolo in 2014 and traded Mallet to Houston for a 6th.  Seems like a decent value to me and I'm assuming that you don't want to use Garoppolo in this silly comparison. 

  

It’s funny.  You Mac haters are like the towns people at Castle Frankenstein gates.   Just want your pound of flesh.  

Well I personally don’t care if he goes,  I’m not a Mac supporter or hater.  I think he has done some good and some bad.   His drafts overall haven’t been good but I'm wondering how much has to do with the scouting in place when he took over.  The last couple of drafts seem to have some potential.    

All I was trying to say is that the Pats also have had plenty of mediocre drafts and it seems like they are close to losing their grip on the AFC East because of that and the decline of Brady.   Maybe they aren’t the role model we should try to emulate.  People here say Mac was lucky to land Darnold but his “ luck” pales next to them finding a great QBin the 6 th rd that got pressed into action and given a chance because Mo Lewis took Bledsoe out of the game

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, Bowles Movement said:

It’s funny.  You Mac haters are like the towns people at Castle Frankenstein gates.   Just want your pound of flesh.  

Well I personally don’t care if he goes,  I’m not a Mac supporter or hater.  I think he has done some good and some bad.   His drafts overall haven’t been good but I'm wondering how much has to do with the scouting in place when he took over.  The last couple of drafts seem to have some potential.    

All I was trying to say is that the Pats also have had plenty of mediocre drafts and it seems like they are close to losing their grip on the AFC East because of that and the decline of Brady.   Maybe they aren’t the role model we should try to emulate.  People here say Mac was lucky to land Darnold but his “ luck” pales next to them finding a great QBin the 6 th rd that got pressed into action and given a chance because Mo Lewis took Bledsoe out of the game

If you're saying the Patriots don't draft so well, you will have no argument from me.  We certainly shouldn't emulate them.  That team has other things going for it.  The Jets started with a clean slate in 2015.  I don't feel that one 34DE, S and QB in that time is much to ask, so I guess you can count me in the group with the torches and pitchforks. 

[munchmemory]

2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

If you're saying the Patriots don't draft so well, you will have no argument from me.  We certainly shouldn't emulate them.  That team has other things going for it.  The Jets started with a clean slate in 2015.  I don't feel that one 34DE, S and QB in that time is much to ask, so I guess you can count me in the group with the torches and pitchforks.