RobR Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, sec101row23 said: All he does is spout stat lines. I doubt he's ever watched him play nor any other prospect for that matter. Probably reads a bunch from Walter football though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said: You're obviously lying, but it would honestly be a whole lot worse if you really had watched three years of games and come away without a single thing to say. I'm lying? Haha. Ok Google Scout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Just now, RobR said: I doubt he's ever watched him play nor any other prospect for that matter. Probably reads a bunch from Walter football though. No but obviously you do. Or someone reads it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 minute ago, choon328 said: Many teams and scouts believed his weight in college was 270-275. He gained weight for the combine bc of those question marks. Then lost 6 lbs in less then a month between the combine and his pro day. That's bc being 287 lbs is not natural for him. His playing weight will be closer to 270 then 281. What does any of that have to do with him being a dominant player at the college level? I'll answer it for you.....nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFaninMI Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, SR24 said: Who in the top ten is going to trade us an extra 1st and 2nd to move up?? People on here don't want Oliver/Quinnen for the simple fact that they play a position we've spent a lot of draft capital on but are still weak in. IMO the only 2 teams that we have a chance at trading with are CIN and WAS both are out of the T10 and this isn't a very deep draft as far as T1 talent goes. I read today that half the people drafted in RND1 will likely have 2nd round grades. This isn't the draft to trade down in unless you get a massive haul. WAS would have to come up with 2 1st rounders 2 2nds and more picks. Unless that happens I'm staying at 3 and picking from Bosa/Allen/Oliver/Quinnen I disagree. The teams to watch IMO are the The Buc's and Giants. Jameis Winston is in the last year of his rookie deal and could play a major role in this years draft. That coupled with Bowles supposed draft lobbying ability(I don't buy it but whatever) only add's to the intrigue. While I don't believe the Giants and Jets will ever make a deal the chance is there and there is a growing thread on it right now. On Oliver/Q Q is not a nose tackle and Oliver is a little small for my tastes. Plus Oliver has suspect character and we all know how Macc stays away from those guys. The chance to trade out is there. It all depends on what the Cards do. I think a trade will be in play right up until the Jets make their pick. Especially if Murray is in play at 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, RobR said: What does any of that have to do with him being a dominant player at the college level? I'll answer it for you.....nothing. I'm wondering what the primary sources were as to what teams and scouts thought Oliver weighed since he doesn't binge and purge scouting report word vomit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 minute ago, RobR said: What does any of that have to do with him being a dominant player at the college level? I'll answer it for you.....nothing. He wasn't dominant. If you can't dominate against the better teams that are on your schedule than you are not a dominant player. Dominant means you are better than everyone on the field. You couldn't say that in 2-3 games this past season and he only played 8. That's not dominance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 minute ago, choon328 said: No but obviously you do. Or someone reads it to you. That's why I've been doing breakdowns on college players for a decade now and even started a thread on Oliver three years ago. Whether I am right or wrong I dangle my balls on the line and will continue to do so. Ironically I don't believe I've ever seen you do one breakdown in that time.....not even one. You're a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Just now, choon328 said: He wasn't dominant. If you can't dominate against the better teams that are on your schedule than you are not a dominant player. Dominant means you are better than everyone on the field. You couldn't say that in 2-3 games this past season and he only played 8. That's not dominance. Which games? Who was better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Just now, Miss Lonelyhearts said: I'm wondering what the primary sources were as to what teams and scouts thought Oliver weighed since he doesn't binge and purge scouting report word vomit. It wasn't a secret that his weight was an issue before the combine. That was literally the biggest question mark about him. Other than quitting on his team and screaming at his coach on the sideline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 1 minute ago, choon328 said: He wasn't dominant. If you can't dominate against the better teams that are on your schedule than you are not a dominant player. Dominant means you are better than everyone on the field. You couldn't say that in 2-3 games this past season and he only played 8. That's not dominance. You're either stubborn or just plain dumb although the two are not mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sec101row23 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, RobR said: I doubt he's ever watched him play nor any other prospect for that matter. Probably reads a bunch from Walter football though. Who the hell knows? It sure doesn’t sound like it, but he can quote the stat line like a champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, RobR said: That's why I've been doing breakdowns on college players for a decade now and even started a thread on Oliver three years ago. Whether I am right or wrong I dangle my balls on the line and will continue to do so. Ironically I don't believe I've ever seen you do one breakdown in that time.....not even one. You're a joke. You're trying to pass yourself off as some authority scouting figure on this site but I'm the joke? Congrats on your 10 year anniversary of breaking down players. Of course that doesn't mean you have any scouting ability whatsoever. It just means you waste a lot of time pretending to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Just now, choon328 said: It wasn't a secret that his weight was an issue before the combine. That was literally the biggest question mark about him. Other than quitting on his team and screaming at his coach on the sideline. Answer the question. We're not gonna keep doing the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, RobR said: You're either stubborn or just plain dumb although the two are not mutually exclusive. I'm just right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choon328 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Just now, Miss Lonelyhearts said: Answer the question. We're not gonna keep doing the thing. I don't need to do what you say. Go sit and spin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFaninMI Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, choon328 said: I don't need to do what you say. Go sit and spin LMAO. Take your ball and go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SR24 Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Just now, JetFaninMI said: I disagree. The teams to watch IMO are the The Buc's and Giants. Jameis Winston is in the last year of his rookie deal and could play a major role in this years draft. That coupled with Bowles supposed draft lobbying ability(I don't buy it but whatever) only add's to the intrigue. While I don't believe the Giants and Jets will ever make a deal the chance is there and there is a growing thread on it right now. On Oliver/Q Q is not a nose tackle and Oliver is a little small for my tastes. Plus Oliver has suspect character and we all know how Macc stays away from those guys. The chance to trade out is there. It all depends on what the Cards do. I think a trade will be in play right up until the Jets make their pick. Especially if Murray is in play at 3. Olivers character is suspect? Because he argued with a coach who picked a fight with his star player over a jacket?? cmon...... no way the Bucs go QB they literally brought Arians in to work with Jameis. I'd take 6 and 17 from NYG but I'd also take a bj from Jennifer Aniston isn't gonna happen. Listen man I'd normally be with you if we could get good compensation for the pick but unfortunately we hold a top pick in a weak qb draft class. If we could get #15,46,76 and then next years 1 and 2 from Washington I would do it IF we could swing #46 to SEA for Frank Clark. Then we know we've added an Elite edge presence and now we can look into snagging an OL at 15. Bradbury/Jonah at 15, #46 for Frank Clark. Then we'd have 3, 3rd round picks we could add another OL,WR and CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, choon328 said: I don't need to do what you say. Go sit and spin Oh god he's real old too. These guys are the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, choon328 said: You're trying to pass yourself off as some authority scouting figure on this site but I'm the joke? Congrats on your 10 year anniversary of breaking down players. Of course that doesn't mean you have any scouting ability whatsoever. It just means you waste a lot of time pretending to. If you said that you didn't think Oliver would transition to the NFL we would not be having this discussion. You didn't. You stated that he wasn't dominant in college and you are completely wrong. Players that have his accolades only do so because they were dominant in college. How ******* hard is that too comprehend? Players that win an Outland Trophy were dominant. How hard is that too comprehend? Players that are 3x First Team All Americans were dominant in college. How hard is that too comprehend? How about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetFaninMI Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, SR24 said: Olivers character is suspect? Because he argued with a coach who picked a fight with his star player over a jacket?? cmon...... no way the Bucs go QB they literally brought Arians in to work with Jameis. I'd take 6 and 17 from NYG but I'd also take a bj from Jennifer Aniston isn't gonna happen. Listen man I'd normally be with you if we could get good compensation for the pick but unfortunately we hold a top pick in a weak qb draft class. If we could get #15,46,76 and then next years 1 and 2 from Washington I would do it IF we could swing #46 to SEA for Frank Clark. Then we know we've added an Elite edge presence and now we can look into snagging an OL at 15. Bradbury/Jonah at 15, #46 for Frank Clark. Then we'd have 3, 3rd round picks we could add another OL,WR and CB. Well the Bucs could go either QB Or one of the top 3. Thats what the Bowles comment was about. I also said I doubt the Jets-Giants make a deal but the speculation is there. I don't think it will be 6 and 17 like some think but 6+ could be in play. I would make a deal with ANY team if the compensation was right. Macc shys away from guys with ANY issue. I don't see Oliver being on top of Maccs list. Oliver would slap the bug-eyes right out of Gase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said: Oh god he's real old too. These guys are the best. I'm thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, RobR said: If you said that you didn't think Oliver would transition to the NFL we would not be having this discussion. You didn't. You stated that he wasn't dominant in college and you are completely wrong. Players that have his accolades only do so because they were dominant in college. How ******* hard is that too comprehend? Players that win an Outland Trophy were dominant. How hard is that too comprehend? Players that are 3x First Team All Americans were dominant in college. How hard is that too comprehend? How about this? Lol. Guy just can't admit he's not up to speed on Oliver and keeps digging himself in further Only guy I want at 1.3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, CTM said: Lol. Guy just can't admit he's not up to speed on Oliver and keeps digging himself in further Only guy I want at 1.3 This is what kind of irritates me about the whole you're not my real GM deal. There are, and fairly obviously, I think, any number of people who do a better job at a harder version of a small part of this stuff than the actual guys do. I mean if superior access to information necessarily implied having a clue what to do with it there wouldn't be consultants. I don't think it's all that hard to develop a comfort level with getting a big picture to cohere from imperfect, incomplete, and often inconsistent glimpses and I don't think you do either but you have to remember how appallingly bad people are at this in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 hour ago, choon328 said: Go check what Oliver did against big College teams the last 2 years and get back to me. This dude is living off of 1 game against Oklahoma 3 years ago. I checked for you. 2 games against Arizona and Texas Tech each. 4 total tfl and no sacks. Dominant! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philc1 Posted April 23, 2019 Author Share Posted April 23, 2019 35 minutes ago, RobR said: If you said that you didn't think Oliver would transition to the NFL we would not be having this discussion. You didn't. You stated that he wasn't dominant in college and you are completely wrong. Players that have his accolades only do so because they were dominant in college. How ******* hard is that too comprehend? Players that win an Outland Trophy were dominant. How hard is that too comprehend? Players that are 3x First Team All Americans were dominant in college. How hard is that too comprehend? How about this? I like Oliver a lot but please let’s make him a 4-3 DE he’s too small for interior DL in a 3-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobR Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Philc1 said: I like Oliver a lot but please let’s make him a 4-3 DE he’s too small for interior DL in a 3-4 If we were going to play a strict 3-4 then I would agree with you because he is not a 0 or a 5 at the next level. Good news is he can play every other position even OLB if needed. I'm sure if we take him it will in part because Williams told Mac he will use him to the best of his abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 37 minutes ago, CTM said: Lol. Guy just can't admit he's not up to speed on Oliver and keeps digging himself in further Only guy I want at 1.3 All you care about is the Spock ratings.. I'd wager a c-note that you didn't know the name Ed Oliver until you got your bath towel ready and pulled up how athletic these kids are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Pac said: All you care about is the Spock ratings.. I'd wager a c-note that you didn't know the name Ed Oliver until you got your bath towel ready and pulled up how athletic these kids are. The imagery here is disgusting. Doesn’t CTM resemble Gopher from The Love Boat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said: This is what kind of irritates me about the whole you're not my real GM deal. There are, and fairly obviously, I think, any number of people who do a better job at a harder version of a small part of this stuff than the actual guys do. I mean if superior access to information necessarily implied having a clue what to do with it there wouldn't be consultants. I don't think it's all that hard to develop a comfort level with getting a big picture to cohere from imperfect, incomplete, and often inconsistent glimpses and I don't think you do either but you have to remember how appallingly bad people are at this in general. It's also heightened now because you have the data movement finally catching on a bit in the NFL but most of the people in positions of power are old and set in their archaic ways. And unlike other areas that have already been revolutionized, proving value isn't quick or clean and far too many faux outliers exist that validate staying the course. (the senior citizens writing the checks are even further removed) But 100% for sure there's a significant portion of the fan base that would've never taken a guy like Hackenberg in Rd 2 but the guy with the conn here sure did and the safe assumption is that he hasn't gotten any smarter and will do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, T0mShane said: The imagery here is disgusting. Doesn’t CTM resemble Gopher from The Love Boat? 1974 Gopher or Gopher now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 8 minutes ago, Pac said: All you care about is the Spock ratings.. I'd wager a c-note that you didn't know the name Ed Oliver until you got your bath towel ready and pulled up how athletic these kids are. I didn't know who most of these guys are as I don't watch college football. I only know as much as I need to know now because the Jets are likely taking one of them. You are missing the point though if you think these are just numbers on a sheet in a vacuum somewhere. Every system starts with consensus scouting grades either as a direct input or a filter. From there the predictive nature of certain athletic benchmarks are pretty clear and Oliver hits every single mark and then some. Combined with the collegiate accolades Rob R has spent the few pages of this thread describing and it's a no brainer. You can see his athleticism on tape too very easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, T0mShane said: The imagery here is disgusting. Doesn’t CTM resemble Gopher from The Love Boat? Joe's willy 12 is rubbing off on you. Why would you produce a mental image of Pacs filth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said: 1974 Gopher or Gopher now? Gopher ‘92, passed out at one of those nostalgia conventions in Reno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, CTM said: Joe's willy 12 is rubbing off on you. Why would you produce a mental image of Pacs filth I thought I had him blocked, but alas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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