LSU - Clemson National Championship Game Draft Prospects

[jetstream23]

Kiper and McShay have an article up on ESPN+.  I won't copy/paste the whole thing but here are their top guys to watch....

Quote

McShay: On talent alone, there is almost no difference. But because Clemson has a younger team, the LSU draft class for 2020 is a bit stronger and will have more first-rounders. I have nine LSU players ranked right now, with quarterback Joe Burrow (No. 2), safety Grant Delpit (No. 6), pass-rusher K'Lavon Chaisson (No. 12), receiver Justin Jefferson (No. 19), cornerback Kristian Fulton (No. 27) and running back Clyde Edwards-Helaire (No. 37) all graded in the first two rounds. I have first-round grades on two Clemson prospects: linebacker Isaiah Simmons (No. 5) and Tee Higgins (No. 20).

Kiper: If we're just talking 2020, LSU gets the edge because of its depth. Aside from the six you mentioned, I have center Lloyd Cushenberry III, tight end Thaddeus Moss and offensive tackle Saahdiq Charles ranked among the top 10 at their positions, though all three are underclassmen who could return to school in 2020. LSU is loaded.

Clemson, which had four players drafted in the top 40 picks in 2019, including three in Round 1, can't match LSU's 2020 talent. I think I'm higher on running back Travis Etienne and cornerback A.J. Terrell than you, though, Todd -- they could be second-round picks if they enter this draft.

Question about Chaisson.....any chance he's a candidate for the Jets pick at #11 if say there's a run on OT and top WRs in the Top 10?  Would Chaisson be a better option as a pass rusher than say Epenesa?  Chaisson didn't have great production this year but 4.5 of his 6.5 sacks have come in his past few games so he's getting hot at the right time.  If he shows out or makes a splash play in the Championship Game then I think he could be a fast riser.

 

[bitonti]

not knowing their workouts, Chaisson 6'4" 250 is more of a physical fit for the type of rusher the Jets need rather than Epenesa 6'5" 275  

they need someone who can turn the corner

both might be huge reaches at 11 (despite McShay's high ranking) 

then again if he runs a 4.4 he's Barkevious Mingo and shoots up boards. 

[sec101row23]

Poor little old Clemson, how can they compete with that talent discrepancy?  But seriously, LSU has the more experienced team as far as draft eligible players.  Clemson has a ton of freshman and sophomores, that’s why the low number of 2020 NFL draft prospects.  

[Stark]

3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Kiper and McShay have an article up on ESPN+.  I won't copy/paste the whole thing but here are their top guys to watch....

Question about Chaisson.....any chance he's a candidate for the Jets pick at #11 if say there's a run on OT and top WRs in the Top 10?  Would Chaisson be a better option as a pass rusher than say Epenesa?  Chaisson didn't have great production this year but 4.5 of his 6.5 sacks have come in his past few games so he's getting hot at the right time.  If he shows out or makes a splash play in the Championship Game then I think he could be a fast riser.

 

I was doing a 7rd mock for fun yesterday and 2 times that scenario played out... 1 time I took Chaisson and the other I took Lamb, just to see what that looked like. All the Oline went early and Wirfs went pick 10 so i was forced.

 

But today when i did one, Wirfs made it to 11

 

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/mock-draft-machine

 

here's the one from today.... this site is a little inconsistent with where players are going from day to day, but for fun...

[Augustiniak]

love edwards-helaire.  would be perfect for this offense.

[maury77]

not knowing their workouts, Chaisson 6'4" 250 is more of a physical fit for the type of rusher the Jets need rather than Epenesa 6'5" 275  
they need someone who can turn the corner
both might be huge reaches at 11 (despite McShay's high ranking) 
then again if he runs a 4.4 he's Barkevious Mingo and shoots up boards. 

Being Mingo isn’t a good thing


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[PepPep]

Posted earlier in a thread about top prospects to watch that you need to watch out for Chaisson as in STAY AWAY from him. He's a terrific athlete and will wow a lot of people just by his raw talent and potential but he scares the hell out of me and I would not even look his way in Rd. 1. 

 

MY POST FROM A WHILE AGO IN A DIFFERENT THREAD:

Don't want to be a hater but I have a STAY AWAY FROM prospect lol

K'Lavon Chaisson- EDGE, LSU

This guy is an elite athlete and he will blow up the combine and turn a lot of heads. He can get around the edge, has incredible quickness and very good strength. He will skyrocket up draft boards as a top pass rusher b/c of his elite athleticism and versatilityas a LB but I would stay away. 

1- He missed the entire 2018 season with a torn ACL. 

2- Pass rush moves are very limited. This is the kind of guy who relies solely on his athleticism and strength to sack the QB. 

3- Lack of production is astonishing. Maybe this is because of how LSU uses him- TBH I don't watch a lot of LSU games. Maybe its b/c he missed 2018 and isn't in the 'full swing of things'. But all of his talent has not translated to production. He has 2 sacks so far this year. 

I got nothing against the guy and he could very well end up being a star b/c of his upside but he has a lot of red flags and if I were the Jets I would not roll the dice on this guy unless he slid all the way to the 4th round and we addressed multiple other positions. 

  

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, Stark said:

I was doing a 7rd mock for fun yesterday and 2 times that scenario played out... 1 time I took Chaisson and the other I took Lamb, just to see what that looked like. All the Oline went early and Wirfs went pick 10 so i was forced.

 

But today when i did one, Wirfs made it to 11

 

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/mock-draft-machine

 

here's the one from today.... this site is a little inconsistent with where players are going from day to day, but for fun...

Can't ask for much better than that in terms of rebuilding the OLine in one offseason with highly rated OT, C, and OG prospects.

[jetstream23]

59 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Posted earlier in a thread about top prospects to watch that you need to watch out for Chaisson as in STAY AWAY from him. He's a terrific athlete and will wow a lot of people just by his raw talent and potential but he scares the hell out of me and I would not even look his way in Rd. 1. 

 

MY POST FROM A WHILE AGO IN A DIFFERENT THREAD:

Don't want to be a hater but I have a STAY AWAY FROM prospect lol

K'Lavon Chaisson- EDGE, LSU

This guy is an elite athlete and he will blow up the combine and turn a lot of heads. He can get around the edge, has incredible quickness and very good strength. He will skyrocket up draft boards as a top pass rusher b/c of his elite athleticism and versatilityas a LB but I would stay away. 

1- He missed the entire 2018 season with a torn ACL. 

2- Pass rush moves are very limited. This is the kind of guy who relies solely on his athleticism and strength to sack the QB. 

3- Lack of production is astonishing. Maybe this is because of how LSU uses him- TBH I don't watch a lot of LSU games. Maybe its b/c he missed 2018 and isn't in the 'full swing of things'. But all of his talent has not translated to production. He has 2 sacks so far this year. 

I got nothing against the guy and he could very well end up being a star b/c of his upside but he has a lot of red flags and if I were the Jets I would not roll the dice on this guy unless he slid all the way to the 4th round and we addressed multiple other positions. 

  

Good info.  I didn't know much about him.  Low production, limited passrush moves are definite concerns for a guy being considered in Round 1.  One thought, recovering from those ACL injuries fully is typically a two-year deal.  Surgery and rehab for about 8-10 months and then typically playing a little worse than expected for a season.  They talk about it all the time with WRs and RBs, that it's really the second season back from the ACL that a guy returns to form.  Perhaps that's a factor here....not sure.

[bitonti]

17 hours ago, maury77 said:

Being Mingo isn’t a good thing


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it's a crap year to look for edge rush in rd 1 

these guys exist just not at rd 1 prices

people around here are trying to force it for whatever reason 

 

[Paradis]

Putting my name on it... the most likely Jets player in this game is LSU Wide Receiver Justin Jefferson. 

Personally would take T Higgins at #11 and proceed to drink champagne, but I get that JD's agenda is Oline first and foremost. I expect Justin to be in play Rnd 2 -- IF he makes it that far... he'll be a draft riser. Guaranteed. Too polished and all around talented. 

[jetsons]

I'd prefer Wills over Wirfs but I would be happy with either.

[Paradis]

I hope Higgins explodes tomorrow... maybe it helps budge him into that top 15 comfort zone... I hate the idea of us passing on him because he's more of a "20-32" guy... which is such silly distinguishment. If you love the player, don't gamble on the 2nd round slide.... just take him. 

[Lith]

31 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I hope Higgins explodes tomorrow... maybe it helps budge him into that top 15 comfort zone... I hate the idea of us passing on him because he's more of a "20-32" guy... which is such silly distinguishment. If you love the player, don't gamble on the 2nd round slide.... just take him. 

Agreed.  I think the so-called draft pundits make way too much of "value."   Draft should be about improving your team the most, and if that means taking Tee HIggins or Mekhi Becton at 11, even if they are supposedly reaches who are ranked 20-30 so be it.  Draft should not be about taking the best players, it should be about building the best team.

[maury77]

If Higgins runs under 4.45, he’s going in the top 15.


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[Paradis]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

If Higgins runs under 4.45, he’s going in the top 15.


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Will be interesting to see this thing play out. They won't ALL go in the top 10; the best OTs, WRs, QBs etc... we're gonna have a shot at someone.

How Douglas plays this will be important... does he pass on Higgins/Lamb for the 4th best OT because there was a run early? Those types of questions intrigue/scare me. 

[sec101row23]

14 hours ago, Paradis said:

Will be interesting to see this thing play out. They won't ALL go in the top 10; the best OTs, WRs, QBs etc... we're gonna have a shot at someone.

How Douglas plays this will be important... does he pass on Higgins/Lamb for the 4th best OT because there was a run early? Those types of questions intrigue/scare me. 

What worries me the most about projecting what receivers Douglas/Gase will target is that I don’t think Gase likes those bigger X receivers.  He seems like he prefers the smaller YAC guys, thus the Crowder, Berrios, Dortch, signings.  I don’t know, it’s just a feeling.  

[JustInFudge]

20 hours ago, Paradis said:

I hope Higgins explodes tomorrow... maybe it helps budge him into that top 15 comfort zone... I hate the idea of us passing on him because he's more of a "20-32" guy... which is such silly distinguishment. If you love the player, don't gamble on the 2nd round slide.... just take him. 

100% this

[section314]

15 hours ago, Paradis said:

Will be interesting to see this thing play out. They won't ALL go in the top 10; the best OTs, WRs, QBs etc... we're gonna have a shot at someone.

How Douglas plays this will be important... does he pass on Higgins/Lamb for the 4th best OT because there was a run early? Those types of questions intrigue/scare me. 

I guess it depends on how he ranks his board. He might think the 4th best OT is a much better player than the #1 or 2 WR. Also, maybe thinks he can grab a WR just as good in rd 2 as he could in rd 1. 

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

What worries me the most about projecting what receivers Douglas/Gase will target is that I don’t think Gase likes those bigger X receivers.  He seems like he prefers the smaller YAC guys, thus the Crowder, Berrios, Dortch, signings.  I don’t know, it’s just a feeling.  

they also traded for demaryius  Thomas and gave many reps to Vyncint Smith 

both of those players are 6'3" and both are X's in the gase scheme 

Berrios made this team at punt return 

the best WR in the league are scheme diverse. No coach looks at Julio Smith and says I need Tyreek Hill or vice versa. Either one works.

 

This team needs a real 1 and a 2 Deep threat to go along with Crowder as a slot 3

although I do like Vyncint Smith as a developmental 4 

 

[sec101row23]

11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

they also traded for demaryius  Thomas and gave many reps to Vyncint Smith 

both of those players are 6'3" and both are X's in the gase scheme 

Berrios made this team at punt return 

the best WR in the league are scheme diverse. No coach looks at Julio Smith and says I need Tyreek Hill or vice versa. Either one works.

 

This team needs a real 1 and a 2 Deep threat to go along with Crowder as a slot 3

although I do like Vyncint Smith as a developmental 4 

 

I agree, I just wonder what value Gase places on the X.  Does he want one enough to take in the first round?

[bitonti]

20 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I agree, I just wonder what value Gase places on the X.  Does he want one enough to take in the first round?

If this draft is going to be "what Gase wants" he doesn't value Linemen at all in fact he once got into a fight with Stephen Ross about it

the draft is going to be the Joe Douglas show, one would assume

But any HC once they have the QB, will look for weapons in rd 1. look at the market Robby is worth 15 mil they almost have to take one 

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

What worries me the most about projecting what receivers Douglas/Gase will target is that I don’t think Gase likes those bigger X receivers.  He seems like he prefers the smaller YAC guys, thus the Crowder, Berrios, Dortch, signings.  I don’t know, it’s just a feeling.  

Good point.  If that's the case then guys like Ruggs, Reagor may be higher on the list than Higgins, Jefferson, etc. right?

 

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

I guess it depends on how he ranks his board. He might think the 4th best OT is a much better player than the #1 or 2 WR. Also, maybe thinks he can grab a WR just as good in rd 2 as he could in rd 1. 

Yea, that's what i'm worried about. Both those evaluations would be wrong IMO

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

What worries me the most about projecting what receivers Douglas/Gase will target is that I don’t think Gase likes those bigger X receivers.  He seems like he prefers the smaller YAC guys, thus the Crowder, Berrios, Dortch, signings.  I don’t know, it’s just a feeling.  

Yes, until he has to pay them.  Jarvis Landry is one of the best YAC guys in the game, and Gase couldnt' seem to make it work..

I dunno. He's offenses really haven't featured a split end before, so I again exist in cloud of doubt and fear 

[section314]

2 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Yea, that's what i'm worried about. Both those evaluations would be wrong IMO

I'd agree. We have to get some play makers on this team that opposing teams actually have to worry about.

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

What worries me the most about projecting what receivers Douglas/Gase will target is that I don’t think Gase likes those bigger X receivers.  He seems like he prefers the smaller YAC guys, thus the Crowder, Berrios, Dortch, signings.  I don’t know, it’s just a feeling.  

If this is a worry, we're in trouble.  lol

I mean, seriously.  If Gase cant figure out how to use a guy like Tee Higgins (for argument's sake he is who is in college), then WTF are we doing here?  Cant use Bell, cant use an electric #1, needs a perfect OL...I mean, we're just once against spinning our wheels if our fear is that Gase cant figure out how to all world talent. 

[section314]

The problem with Gase, as I see it, is that in his 5 years as a HC, he can't figure out how to score points. Period.

[jetstream23]

4 hours ago, section314 said:

The problem with Gase, as I see it, is that in his 5 years as a HC, he can't figure out how to score points. Period.

I'm supportive of Gase for a second season here next year, but you're absolutely correct.  I think we'd all like to be optimistic but his track record of scoring points, some players improving after he's left them, his offensive rankings, etc. is below average at best and simply bad at worst.

This is all balanced against some subjective things that are absolutely true but very hard to measure.  Horrible OLine, ridiculous amount of injuries to a team that was already subpar in talent, etc.  And while we don't hold those disadvantages up when his offense is ranked badly we trumpet the quality of opponents when he goes 6-2 over the final 8.

I don't know about this guy.  I'm hopeful but he has a lot to prove.  We need more data....more games...with a better roster.  Only then can we really evaluate.  Bowles got what, 4 seasons?  Gase deserves at least two.

[Philc1]

On 1/9/2020 at 1:36 PM, bitonti said:

not knowing their workouts, Chaisson 6'4" 250 is more of a physical fit for the type of rusher the Jets need rather than Epenesa 6'5" 275  

they need someone who can turn the corner

both might be huge reaches at 11 (despite McShay's high ranking) 

then again if he runs a 4.4 he's Barkevious Mingo and shoots up boards. 

I really doubt we go defense at 11 even if edge rusher is still a need

 

Now if we do the smart thing and trade Adams for picks that changes

 

[jetstream23]

Risers?

Fallers?

[Chrebetfan80]

On 1/10/2020 at 11:57 AM, Paradis said:

Putting my name on it... the most likely Jets player in this game is LSU Wide Receiver Justin Jefferson. 

Personally would take T Higgins at #11 and proceed to drink champagne, but I get that JD's agenda is Oline first and foremost. I expect Justin to be in play Rnd 2 -- IF he makes it that far... he'll be a draft riser. Guaranteed. Too polished and all around talented. 

i keep targeting him in the second too i just dont know if he'll make it there... There is going to be a RUN on WR's late in the first round... There are a legitimate 10-15 teams you could put WR in the first 2 needs.  Let alone the bengals targeting him at the top of round 2 to reunite with Burrow.

[kdels62]

9 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Risers?

Fallers?

Risers:

The RBs, I doubt either Etienne or Edwards- Helaire on there in the 3rd round

Justin Jefferson- looked like a complete receiver that could go outside or inside

Isaiah Simmons- looked dynamic if he’s there at 11 we might have a a team looking to trade up

Joe Burrow - looks like an all-time QB

Fallers

All OL - Both OL took turns getting wrecked and giving up pressure

Christian Fulton- Was targeted all game and basically kept Clemson in the game by being the weak link

Tee Higgins - injured in the two biggest games of the year, held in check when the team needed him the most

[Augustiniak]

1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

i keep targeting him in the second too i just dont know if he'll make it there... There is going to be a RUN on WR's late in the first round... There are a legitimate 10-15 teams you could put WR in the first 2 needs.  Let alone the bengals targeting him at the top of round 2 to reunite with Burrow.

there are a lot of wrs so if the jets waited until the 2nd they can still get a quality one.  

[JustInFudge]

9 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Risers?

Fallers?

The only dude that may have hurt his stock was AJ Terrell.  Not only was he absolutely torched by the LSU WR's he also looked terrible trying to tackle.  That was truly an embarrassing performance for him.

I dont think Chaisson helped himself either.  I didnt see anything that made me think I was watching a 1st round pick.

Lawrence was utterly unimpressive as well.  He's not eligible and I doubt anyone put this as a mark against him but it raised an eyebrow for me.