Rate the Adams Trade for the Jets

[section314]

At least Carroll still has signing off on that slant pass from the 1 yard line vs the Pats on his resume' to hang his hat on. ?

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm so glad you asked, because it gives me the opportunity for a long post, which is my 2nd favorite thing in the world.

When one of Carroll's players has a disastrous game he doesn't use that term then either. Coaches have to be a little more diplomatic if they want anyone to work or play under them ever again. I'm sure in those cases, like all coaches, he uses phrases like, "It wasn't his best game" and "he'll have to work on _____" and talk of bouncing back the next week & how the player still has his confidence. Everyone knows what that stuff means.

He didn't use that word, because no one uses that word unless talking about oneself in self-deprecating fashion. Carroll certainly knows a top 10 pick is not a requirement to land a pro-bowl/all-pro player at any position, let alone strong safety (he found Kam Chancellor in round 5 ffs), even though he also implied that in his comments as well.

Here's what Carroll/Schneider have to show for their 1st round picks over the last several years, including the slot where they originally picked:

2013 #25 = Percy Harvin.

Carroll traded the pick away for this known quantity (then gave him $11MM/year he regretted almost immediately). Idzik rescued them from some money at the trade deadline the next season, but that trade only yielded a 6th round pick in return.

2014 #32 = Paul Richardson.

Following the SB win, trader Pete moved down from #32 (he didn't need either of the probowl QBs taken 32-36, but 2 of the next 3 picks were pro bowlers anyone could've used). He traded down from #32 to #40, then again from #40 to #45, where he took Richardson, who once had a season with >300 yards.

2015 #31 = Jimmy Graham.

Not even-up, though. He traded starting, pro-bowl/all-pro center Max Unger and his 1st round pick for the 29 year-old TE, who instantly went from being consistent & deadly as the NFL's other Gronk to having a good game about once a month. After 3 years Carroll cut him.

2016 #26 = Germain Ifedi.

Traded his original 1st round pick for the 4th year in a row, moving down to #31 to take a guy who once committed 16 penalties in a season. Declined his 5th year option & entering his age 26 season the Bears signed him on a vet minimum deal with barely any of it guaranteed. Honestly Douglas should have taken a flyer on him at that cheap. But as a draft pick? A waste. 

2017 #26 = Malik McDowell.

The 5th year in a row trading his top pick -- moved down from 26 to 31 to 35 where he took McDowell. McDowell never appeared in a single game, spending 2 years on the non-football injury list and then was cut after his soph season. He's currently incarcerated, serving an 11-month sentence for stealing a car (and more). The best part of it is in addition to the jail time, the judge in Michigan ordered him to write a 750-100 word essay on finding meaning in life other than committing crimes lol.

2018 #18 = Rashaad Penny.

A 6th straight year trading his original 1st round pick, this time dropping down to #27. He'd already drafted his starting RB the prior year at the bottom of round 7, making this yet another complete and total waste of a 1st round pick. He could have stayed pat or traded up a 2-3 slots. It would have been hard for him to make a bad pick anywhere from 16-24. I can understand not trading up, since he was already missing both of his day 2 picks because he traded both his 2nd rounder (Sheldon Richardson) and 3rd rounder (Duane Brown) in the fall of 2017. If he'd kept it in his pants, 2018 could have been a banner draft for him. Take your pick around #18. Could have moved down plenty from his 2nd round pick and snagged both probowlers Baltimore ended up taking in round 3 (O.Brown & M.Andrews). That extra 3rd rounder he did pick up for moving down went to Rasheem Green, a pass rusher with 5 sacks in 2 years. 

2019 #21 = Marquise Blair.

More trading of his original top pick, for 7th year in a row, which has got to be a record. This time from #21 to 30, then from 30 to 37, then from 37 to 47, where he took a safety. So satisfied with this player's progress, before his 2nd season Carroll coughed up a pair of 1st rounders and more to the Jets for Jamal Adams.

2019 #29 = LJ Collier.

He traded probowl edge rusher Frank Clark to KC for this pick. Clark helped KC win a SB with his 5 sacks / 7 QB hits in the playoffs. Collier didn't have quite as good of a season: in 11 games, mostly on the bench, he finished the year with 3 tackles.

**

So while the word "disastrous" wasn't used, it was more than implied, as anyone with internet access can see. Amazingly, this is probably a worse showing than Idzik/Maccagnan (though in fairness Macc only had a top pick lower than #6 once in 5 drafts, and the result wasn't too good then either).

 

Youre slipping.  In the world of Sperm Edwards posts, this is a memo on a post it note. ?

I get what youre saying about their picks but on the other hand Schneider is considered on the better GMs in the league.

But I heard the Carroll piece on ESPN and he talked about Adams is the kind of player you cant get where they draft not that their picks have been bad.  I just found it doubtful that any HC would say the trade was worth it because we suck at drafting.  

[GreenReaper]

I was very pleased with how JD played the 2020 draft?  

Now I'm fantasizing what draft dance JD will choreograph over these next two years?

Four 1st round picks over these next two years?

In 2021...five chips to play with in rounds 1-3.  And possibly seven picks through first 4 rounds of this draft  

This additional draft amunition...is just what JD needs...to accelerate the acquisition of talent.  To help mold the Jets into a perennial playoff team.  One that can compete for the Lombardi Trophy...

IMHO...with the impact the COVID-19 pandemic uncertainty is having on this season...this trade was a big win for JD

A++ baby

  

[BettyBoop]

The reason the Seahawks gave up so much for Adams is because Pete Carroll will be 69 in September and is going all-in for the next two seasons before he calls it a day.  He will leave the team in the same shape he left USC in.  He's a creep and a thug.

Douglas saw the opportunity and pounced.

[UntouchableCrew]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It certainly does change it when the team has had nothing but losing records since then. He represented what might have been in a worse way than any of those picks. Never was it so obvious to take a QB, and so impossible to screw it up in doing so.

Imagine playing a shell game to find the pea. Except there's a pea under 2 of the 3 shells not one. Then further imagine taking the empty shell off the table, leaving a choice of a great QB and an all-time great QB. We got a safety, in a safety-rich draft. 

The stink of that disastrous pick would have haunted the Jets for as long as Adams was on the roster. Now the healing can begin. 

This "psyche of the tortured fan" logic doesn't really have bearing in reality though. The idea that Adams is inherently bad to have on the roster because he represents the failures of a past regime is silly. The past regime is gone and he's an elite player.

The trade is ultimately good because I think Joe Douglas actually know what he's doing and turning a safety into a bunch of premium picks is a win when it's clear the guy doesn't have a future here anyway. But the "baggage" of the missed pick only exists in the minds of the woe-is-me fan. Nobody in the building thinks about it that way.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

This "psyche of the tortured fan" logic doesn't really have bearing in reality though. The idea that Adams is inherently bad to have on the roster because he represents the failures of a past regime is silly. The past regime is gone and he's an elite player.

The trade is ultimately good because I think Joe Douglas actually know what he's doing and turning a safety into a bunch of premium picks is a win when it's clear the guy doesn't have a future here anyway. But the "baggage" of the missed pick only exists in the minds of the woe-is-me fan. Nobody in the building thinks about it that way.

Let me show you on the doll where Jamal Adams hurt me

[Losmeister]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Let me show you on the doll where Jamal Adams hurt me

That Deshaun Watson shaped scar?

[Losmeister]

23 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Carroll came right out & said it as plainly as anyone could: they did this because he looked at their track record the last half decade or so, particularly in round 1, and he figured they'd blow these picks anyway.

If they weren't such disasters at using 1st round picks this trade wouldn't have happened. 

1st round picks for Pete Carroll are like bullets without a gun. 

I think it also has to do w/ appeasing the fan base...

they wnat the D back...    not middle of the pack...

they went for Clowney...   now they go for Kam Lite....

[Sperm Edwards]

10 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Youre slipping.  In the world of Sperm Edwards posts, this is a memo on a post it note. ?

I get what youre saying about their picks but on the other hand Schneider is considered on the better GMs in the league.

But I heard the Carroll piece on ESPN and he talked about Adams is the kind of player you cant get where they draft not that their picks have been bad.  I just found it doubtful that any HC would say the trade was worth it because we suck at drafting.  

Except he knows that's nonsense.

They not only can get a player like him where they draft, but they have even during his own tenure in Seattle.

He could have moved up 2 slots to leapfrog SD to take Derwin James in 2018. Instead he traded down to alleviate a mess of his own making, drafted one of his many busts, and then that led to coughing up 2 more firsts for Adams. 

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Except he knows that's nonsense.

They not only can get a player like him where they draft, but they have even during his own tenure in Seattle.

He could have moved up 2 slots to leapfrog SD to take Derwin James in 2018. Instead he traded down to alleviate a mess of his own making, drafted one of his many busts, and then that led to coughing up 2 more firsts for Adams. 

No its not, hes stating that the Seahawks cant draft a top 5 rated player where they've been picking.  Im not twisting that into my GM has picked garbage.  And try as you might, Adams was a top rated pick that is now the top rated S.  

You can find a top player looking back years later.  We could have gotten a FQB in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round if we took Wilson.  Or in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and maybe more if we took Brady.  So yes, you dont have to pick 1st to get a QB or any other position.  Can do this forever.  He was trying to say you cant get a top 5 pick at 25.  Of course you can go back to any draft and talk about all the players any team could have made.  Player come on out of nowhere.  Happens, thats the draft, happens in the NFL and every other sport

Schneider is considered a top GM.  He built the Legion of Boom with lots of mid round to low round picks, Carroll wouldn't bitch about their drafts.

[Sperm Edwards]

15 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

No its not, hes stating that the Seahawks cant draft a top 5 rated player where they've been picking.  Im not twisting that into my GM has picked garbage.  And try as you might, Adams was a top rated pick that is now the top rated S.  

You can find a top player looking back years later.  We could have gotten a FQB in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round if we took Wilson.  Or in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and maybe more if we took Brady.  So yes, you dont have to pick 1st to get a QB or any other position.  Can do this forever.  He was trying to say you cant get a top 5 pick at 25.  Of course you can go back to any draft and talk about all the players any team could have made.  Player come on out of nowhere.  Happens, thats the draft, happens in the NFL and every other sport

Schneider is considered a top GM.  He built the Legion of Boom with lots of mid round to low round picks, Carroll wouldn't bitch about their drafts.

Yet he knows this is patently untrue. Of course you can, if you draft well.

They did draft well once upon a time. That was years ago. For more than a half decade they’ve been Maccagnanesque. 

[Jet Nut]

25 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yet he knows this is patently untrue. Of course you can, if you draft well.

They did draft well once upon a time. That was years ago. For more than a half decade they’ve been Maccagnanesque. 

It’s true only if the 22 teams above you don’t pick that player.  If the draft goes as predicted you never get a top ranked, top 5 player at 25.  If you get lucky and a Sherman develops yes.   That’s not to say you can’t pick up a good player at 25.

Funny thing is a week ago the argument was one 17th overall was better than 2 25, now we’re trying to say that 25 can get you a top 5 type who was taken at 6?

[LIJetsFan]

35 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yet he knows this is patently untrue. Of course you can, if you draft well.

They did draft well once upon a time. That was years ago. For more than a half decade they’ve been Maccagnanesque. 

Coining a new word I see; well done!