Rate the Adams Trade for the Jets

[Jetsfan80]

40 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

JD’s best move as GM this far. 
The Adams deal > trading back the 2nd rounder in 2020. 
5 stars ⭐️⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️ ⭐️  

The Leo trade rounds out the top 3. 

He's schooled several GM's in trades already just 13 months into his tenure.

[Fantasy Island]

Thank god that POS is gone.  Douglas is an NFL GM.

[UntouchableCrew]

I said "A." It's hard to be "A+" enthusiastic about trading away the best player we've drafted since Revis after only three years, but given the circumstances I don't think Douglas could have possibly done much better.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I said "A." It's hard to be "A+" enthusiastic about trading away the best player we've drafted since Revis after only three years, but given the circumstances I don't think Douglas could have possibly done much better.

That doesn't say much.  This team also hasn't been to the playoffs since Revis.  And it doesn't help matters for that argument that even though Adams was a very good player, it was still a bad pick.

Good riddance.  We'll do so much more with those picks and cap space than Adams would ever be able to do for us. 

And I truly think in no more than 4-5 years, Adams will be an afterthought in this league.

A+

[DoubleDown]

I gave it an A with the potential to be an A+ if those picks are used on foundational players that turn this team into a contender for the next decade.

[Apache 51]

 

[TNJet]

On 7/25/2020 at 7:44 PM, Sarge4Tide said:

What grade do you give the Jets for trading Jamal Adams and a 4th round draft pick to Seattle for S Bradley McDougald, 2 1st round draft picks, and a 3rd rounder?

I'd gave them an A if we traded him for a 2nd and a 3rd. Lol

[ZachEY]

On 7/25/2020 at 8:35 PM, Jethead said:

Once again we affirm our place with the bottom teams in the league. 

Douglas is now on a par with the owner and the coach. Welcime to loserville!

Well, at least new we have 2 extra first round picks rather than a guy who you thought was so incredible yet for his entire career, we were one of the bottom teams in the league.

[ZachEY]

On 7/25/2020 at 8:42 PM, kevinc855 said:

C is for wanting to win games unlike you all with your obsession with April draft days 

If you actually wanted to win games, what was the appeal of Jamal Adams?

[ZachEY]

On 7/26/2020 at 7:22 AM, Jet Nut said:

Wait the haters case was that Adams doesnt move the needle.  That hes a glorified LB who's sacks were schemed, anyone could do what Adams did for the Jets.  That S's dont move the needle.  That McDougalds numbers are so similar.  That Davis is a capable replacement.

Now its different, we're hamstrung?  And Gase gets an excuse because if we dont win its because of that S?  LOL

Also no one knows what the draft will look like in the offseason, every draft changes from what we think in July to April.

It's not so much that his sacks were because of scheme, it's that 77% of them were against two bad rookie QBs.  It's probably why he was so desperate to go to the Cowboys.  Haskins and Jones twice a year!

[Jet Nut]

49 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

It's not so much that his sacks were because of scheme, it's that 77% of them were against two bad rookie QBs.  It's probably why he was so desperate to go to the Cowboys.  Haskins and Jones twice a year!

Teams that other NFL SS's also played against and didnt post the same numbers?

Its like telling me OBJ gets more catches or yards because they scheme him too do so.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Teams that other NFL SS's also played against and didnt post the same numbers?

Its like telling me OBJ gets more catches or yards because they scheme him too do so.

Umm... What?

The point is, Jamal Adams sacks were an aberrant data point, inflated by two games against two bad QBs.  That doesn't detract from the fact that he got them, but it does detract from any decisions I'd make on the player or his compensation, regarding them.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Umm... What?

The point is, Jamal Adams sacks were an aberrant data point, inflated by two games against two bad QBs.  That doesn't detract from the fact that he got them, but it does detract from any decisions I'd make on the player or his compensation, regarding them.

My point is he blitzed and got the sacks 

All the other excuses for why he got them to me are pointless.  

 

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

My point is he blitzed and got the sacks 

All the other excuses for why he got them to me are pointless.  

 

When it's said that he's a safety that gets essentially no INTs, suddenly his supporters on this website want to talk about complex issues as to why he's not.  When it's said that he's getting a lot of sacks, there is no room for complexity in understanding why that may be the case, and more importantly, why that's not likely to be replicated.

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

When it's said that he's a safety that gets essentially no INTs, suddenly his supporters on this website want to talk about complex issues as to why he's not.  When it's said that he's getting a lot of sacks, there is no room for complexity in understanding why that may be the case, and more importantly, why that's not likely to be replicated.

And its wrong, given his 3 year career in pass defense and that GW is the one sho schemed it that way

But I know, Adams has been ripped over and over..  He cant cover, is a liability actually.  His sacks were due to GW scheming him to blitz.  Now its the teams he got them against.  LOL, no kidding, works that was for a lot of players.

Anyone take JJ Watts sacks away from him after getting 3 against our shltty OL?

He is used in a number of different ways, he produces in a number of different ways.

Hes a dick, I get it, I'm just not selling that he sucks or his numbers didnt happen.

Just like no one would stupid enough to trade a one, ever mind two ones.

Read that here too

 

[ZachEY]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

And its wrong, given his 3 year career in pass defense and that GW is the one sho schemed it that way

But I know, Adams has been ripped over and over..  He cant cover, is a liability actually.  His sacks were due to GW scheming him to blitz.  Now its the teams he got them against.  LOL, no kidding, works that was for a lot of players.

Anyone take JJ Watts sacks away from him after getting 3 against our shltty OL?

He is used in a number of different ways, he produces in a number of different ways.

Hes a dick, I get it, I'm just not selling that he sucks or his numbers didnt happen.

Just like no one would stupid enough to trade a one, ever mind two ones.

Reads that nonsense here too

 

No one is saying he "sucks."  Or, if they are, it's an insignificant minority of people.  They're saying that trading him was a good move, as what he brought to the team wasn't worth the forthcoming 20M per year, and the two 1st he did end up fetching in the trade, was literally the most valuable contribution he's made as a Jet.  So, for that, I salute him, and hope that Joe Douglas can parlay those picks into football players who will contribute to a Jets championship, or a Jets deep playoff run, or a Jets playoff win, or a Jets playoff appearance, or a Jets winning season, or a Jets 8-8 season, none of which Jamal Adams' presence was enough to do.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

No one is saying he "sucks."  Or, if they are, it's an insignificant minority of people.  They're saying that trading him was a good move, as what he brought to the team wasn't worth the forthcoming 20M per year, and the two 1st he did end up fetching in the trade, was literally the most valuable contribution he's made as a Jet.  So, for that, I salute him, and hope that Joe Douglas can parlay those picks into football players who will contribute to a Jets championship, or a Jets deep playoff run, or a Jets playoff win, or a Jets playoff appearance, or a Jets winning season, or a Jets 8-8 season, none of which Jamal Adams' presence was enough to do.

We've heard it enough though

Along the claims of his lack of ability in coverage/sacks whatever

Even with his contract demands he brought in 2 ones, a 3 and a player not because of his game and what Seattle want or needs?  But because of schemes or weak opponents?

 

And Seattle will sign him, they didnt trade all that they did for a 1 year rental, thats fantasy that some fans believe.  

[Rich]

Other than Kalil every thing JD has done so far has been well thought out and hard to argue. Even that signing made sense when it was done.

This hasnt really come up yet, but with the dent coming to the salary cap those 1 year deals are looking pretty darn smart too. Its hard enough to complete a roster when the cap is growing, this is going to hurt a lot of teams badly. But the Jets should be in pretty good shape.   

[Philc1]

5 minutes ago, Rich said:

Other than Kalil every thing JD has done so far has been well thought out and hard to argue. Even that signing made sense when it was done.

This hasnt really come up yet, but with the dent coming to the salary cap those 1 year deals are looking pretty darn smart too. Its hard enough to complete a roster when the cap is growing, this is going to hurt a lot of teams badly. But the Jets should be in pretty good shape.   

Pretty sure Kalil and Vedvik were Gase moves

[Philc1]

26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

My point is he blitzed and got the sacks 

All the other excuses for why he got them to me are pointless.  

 

Who designed those blitz plays?

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Who designed those blitz plays?

Who cares?

If it was that easy we would have a 6.5 sack SS every year.  And so would every team in the NFL.

Hell Seattle would just blitzed McDougland all the time.

This is the one hell a poor excuse ever 

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Who cares?

If it was that easy we would have a 6.5 sack SS every year.  And so would every team in the NFL.

Hell Seattle would just blitzed McDougland all the time.

This is the one hell a poor excuse ever 

Adams got those sacks because they were very well designed blitz plays not because he’s some scary generational talent

[RutgersJetFan]

It's an A+ by every measure. They got a Revis-level return for a less valuable position and the guy was literally actively campaigning to get out of town. I was an Adams fan and the numbers supported his impact on wins, and the Jets are not a better team this year because of this, but with the way things were heading it's reasonable to believe that the whole situation was only to get worse as the season went on. I am getting a bit tired of the Jets always using a season to clear things up for the following offseason, which is literally the story of every season for the past 10 years, but it's hard to see how they could have made this work otherwise. Paying Adams was the only other option and both parties passed the point of that happening a long time ago. I never imagined us getting two 1sts and thought we blew it by turning down Dallas' offer last year, and I honestly thought we weren't going to get sh*t in return once that nonsense about Gase went public.

[#27TheDominator]

31 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

We've heard it enough though

Along the ideas over his abititiesw in coverage/sacks whatever

FOR his contract he brought in 2 ones, a 3 and a player not because of his game and what Seattle want or needs.  not because of schemes or weak opponents

 

And Seattle will sign him, they didnt trade all that they did for a 1 year rental, thats fantasy that some fans believe.  

QF abetities

[CTJetsFan]

On 7/28/2020 at 11:42 AM, UntouchableCrew said:

I said "A." It's hard to be "A+" enthusiastic about trading away the best player we've drafted since Revis after only three years, but given the circumstances I don't think Douglas could have possibly done much better.

+1. My thought as well. On paper, we're not a better team than we were before the trade....but no doubt Joe D got great value for the future to help with our re-build from the Macc & Idzik drafting debacles.

I also wonder if a similar deal could have been made during the draft where we could have drafted more reinforcements for the 2020 season.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Adams got those sacks because they were very well designed blitz plays not because he’s some scary generational talent

Sure he did

In 20 or more years as a DC how many S's has he had with those sack totals?
In Buffalo?  LA?  Cleveland?  Should I go round?

The simplistic and amazingly pointless argument is all you have to do is bklitz your S and he'll put up sack totals no one else had or has.

But please, whatever you do try to make it into Adams did nothing. Or better yet bring up generation talent.  Because I never used those words on Adams and have posted numerous times the I hate and disagree with that line of shlt used to describe players.

 

[Warfish]

Obvious A+ deal, and Douglas got vastly more than I ever thought possible. 

Now we need Douglas to make A+ picks.

Also, lol at the troll "C" and "F-" and "strongly disagree" voters.  

One can only ponder what those folks would have thought the "best possible" deal would be, maybe partial ownership of the team getting Adams?  

[Sperm Edwards]

On 7/28/2020 at 11:42 AM, UntouchableCrew said:

I said "A." It's hard to be "A+" enthusiastic about trading away the best player we've drafted since Revis after only three years, but given the circumstances I don't think Douglas could have possibly done much better.

Given how impossibly QB-desperate the team was when they drafted Adams, and the two QBs sitting right there (3 QBs with upper 1st round grades and the only bad one was off the board already ffs). And we took a safety. 6th in the country. In a draft with a bunch of good safety prospects, no less.

No one likes saying it (ok, almost no one) but he was not a successful draft pick when weighed against either of the two obvious picks for a team in the Jets' circumstances. Only makes it worse that we'd still have the following year's 1st and three more 2nd rounders as well. 

It was a painfully stupid draft pick, and even though he's a good player he was insufferable with his constant self-promotion (and referring to himself as a team-first leader all the while). So far it seems his teammates agree; something about the silence being deafening comes to mind. 

He was a constant reminder that we didn't draft 2 of the top 5 QBs in football (including the one who's on pace to be the greatest of all time).

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

We've heard it enough though

Along the claims of his lack of ability in coverage/sacks whatever

Even with his contract demands he brought in 2 ones, a 3 and a player not because of his game and what Seattle want or needs?  But because of schemes or weak opponents?

 

And Seattle will sign him, they didnt trade all that they did for a 1 year rental, thats fantasy that some fans believe.  

I haven't heard one person suggest Seattle was doing this as a one year rental.

I imagine they will sign him.

My response to that is the same one I gave you the other day.

Sometimes people make bad decisions.  This looks like one of them.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

I haven't heard one person suggest Seattle was doing this as a one year rental.

I imagine they will sign him.

My response to that is the same one I gave you the other day.

Sometimes people make bad decisions.  This looks like one of them.

Carroll came right out & said it as plainly as anyone could: they did this because he looked at their track record the last half decade or so, particularly in round 1, and he figured they'd blow these picks anyway.

If they weren't such disasters at using 1st round picks this trade wouldn't have happened. 

1st round picks for Pete Carroll are like bullets without a gun. 

[jetstream23]

Two extra 1st Round picks the next two years?

Live look at our Draft Forum...

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Carroll came right out & said it as plainly as anyone could: they did this because he looked at their track record the last half decade or so, particularly in round 1, and he figured they'd blow these picks anyway.

If they weren't such disasters at using 1st round picks this trade wouldn't have happened. 

1st round picks for Pete Carroll are like bullets without a gun. 

Pete Carroll actually threw his GM under the bus this badly?

is there a link?

Because I heard that picking lower in the draft they haven’t been able to get a player this good.  Nothing about disastrous picks.  
 

 

[UntouchableCrew]

16 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Given how impossibly QB-desperate the team was when they drafted Adams, and the two QBs sitting right there (3 QBs with upper 1st round grades and the only bad one was off the board already ffs). And we took a safety. 6th in the country. In a draft with a bunch of good safety prospects, no less.

No one likes saying it (ok, almost no one) but he was not a successful draft pick when weighed against either of the two obvious picks for a team in the Jets' circumstances. Only makes it worse that we'd still have the following year's 1st and three more 2nd rounders as well. 

It was a painfully stupid draft pick, and even though he's a good player he was insufferable with his constant self-promotion (and referring to himself as a team-first leader all the while). So far it seems his teammates agree; something about the silence being deafening comes to mind. 

He was a constant reminder that we didn't draft 2 of the top 5 QBs in football (including the one who's on pace to be the greatest of all time).

True. But we're not evaluating the draft pick. We're evaluating the trade. The fact that we should have taken Mahomes or Watson doesn't change the fact that Adams was actually an elite player at his position -- after drafting Coples, Milliners, Pryors and Leo Willaims types for a decade getting a first team all pro (what you're hoping to get in the first round) only to trade that player away after three years kinda sucks on some level.

[Sperm Edwards]

14 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Pete Carroll actually threw his GM under the bus this badly?

is there a link?

Because I heard that picking lower in the draft they haven’t been able to get a player this good.  Nothing about disastrous picks.  

 

 

I'm so glad you asked, because it gives me the opportunity for a long post, which is my 2nd favorite thing in the world.

When one of Carroll's players has a disastrous game he doesn't use that term then either. Coaches have to be a little more diplomatic if they want anyone to work or play under them ever again. I'm sure in those cases, like all coaches, he uses phrases like, "It wasn't his best game" and "he'll have to work on _____" and talk of bouncing back the next week & how the player still has his confidence. Everyone knows what that stuff means.

He didn't use that word, because no one uses that word unless talking about oneself in self-deprecating fashion. Carroll certainly knows a top 10 pick is not a requirement to land a pro-bowl/all-pro player at any position, let alone strong safety (he found Kam Chancellor in round 5 ffs), even though he also implied that in his comments as well.

Here's what Carroll/Schneider have to show for their 1st round picks over the last several years, including the slot where they originally picked:

2013 #25 = Percy Harvin.

Carroll traded the pick away for this known quantity (then gave him $11MM/year he regretted almost immediately). Idzik rescued them from some money at the trade deadline the next season, but that trade only yielded a 6th round pick in return.

2014 #32 = Paul Richardson.

Following the SB win, trader Pete moved down from #32 (he didn't need either of the probowl QBs taken 32-36, but 2 of the next 3 picks were pro bowlers anyone could've used). He traded down from #32 to #40, then again from #40 to #45, where he took Richardson, who once had a season with >300 yards.

2015 #31 = Jimmy Graham.

Not even-up, though. He traded starting, pro-bowl/all-pro center Max Unger and his 1st round pick for the 29 year-old TE, who instantly went from being consistent & deadly as the NFL's other Gronk to having a good game about once a month. After 3 years Carroll cut him.

2016 #26 = Germain Ifedi.

Traded his original 1st round pick for the 4th year in a row, moving down to #31 to take a guy who once committed 16 penalties in a season. Declined his 5th year option & entering his age 26 season the Bears signed him on a vet minimum deal with barely any of it guaranteed. Honestly Douglas should have taken a flyer on him at that cheap. But as a draft pick? A waste. 

2017 #26 = Malik McDowell.

The 5th year in a row trading his top pick -- moved down from 26 to 31 to 35 where he took McDowell. McDowell never appeared in a single game, spending 2 years on the non-football injury list and then was cut after his soph season. He's currently incarcerated, serving an 11-month sentence for stealing a car (and more). The best part of it is in addition to the jail time, the judge in Michigan ordered him to write a 750-100 word essay on finding meaning in life other than committing crimes lol.

2018 #18 = Rashaad Penny.

A 6th straight year trading his original 1st round pick, this time dropping down to #27. He'd already drafted his starting RB the prior year at the bottom of round 7, making this yet another complete and total waste of a 1st round pick. He could have stayed pat or traded up a 2-3 slots. It would have been hard for him to make a bad pick anywhere from 16-24. I can understand not trading up, since he was already missing both of his day 2 picks because he traded both his 2nd rounder (Sheldon Richardson) and 3rd rounder (Duane Brown) in the fall of 2017. If he'd kept it in his pants, 2018 could have been a banner draft for him. Take your pick around #18. Could have moved down plenty from his 2nd round pick and snagged both probowlers Baltimore ended up taking in round 3 (O.Brown & M.Andrews). That extra 3rd rounder he did pick up for moving down went to Rasheem Green, a pass rusher with 5 sacks in 2 years. 

2019 #21 = Marquise Blair.

More trading of his original top pick, for 7th year in a row, which has got to be a record. This time from #21 to 30, then from 30 to 37, then from 37 to 47, where he took a safety. So satisfied with this player's progress, before his 2nd season Carroll coughed up a pair of 1st rounders and more to the Jets for Jamal Adams.

2019 #29 = LJ Collier.

He traded probowl edge rusher Frank Clark to KC for this pick. Clark helped KC win a SB with his 5 sacks / 7 QB hits in the playoffs. Collier didn't have quite as good of a season: in 11 games, mostly on the bench, he finished the year with 3 tackles.

**

So while the word "disastrous" wasn't used, it was more than implied, as anyone with internet access can see. Amazingly, this is probably a worse showing than Idzik/Maccagnan (though in fairness Macc only had a top pick lower than #6 once in 5 drafts, and the result wasn't too good then either).

 

[Sperm Edwards]

5 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

True. But we're not evaluating the draft pick. We're evaluating the trade. The fact that we should have taken Mahomes or Watson doesn't change the fact that Adams was actually an elite player at his position -- after drafting Coples, Milliners, Pryors and Leo Willaims types for a decade getting a first team all pro (what you're hoping to get in the first round) only to trade that player away after three years kinda sucks on some level.

It certainly does change it when the team has had nothing but losing records since then. He represented what might have been in a worse way than any of those picks. Never was it so obvious to take a QB, and so impossible to screw it up in doing so.

Imagine playing a shell game to find the pea. Except there's a pea under 2 of the 3 shells not one. Then further imagine taking the empty shell off the table, leaving a choice of a great QB and an all-time great QB. We got a safety, in a safety-rich draft. 

The stink of that disastrous pick would have haunted the Jets for as long as Adams was on the roster. Now the healing can begin.