Think of the possibilities

[genot]

If we have the first pick, had the opportunity to trade down with Atlanta to get an additional 2nd,3rd, in 2021, and a 1st in 22, plus Calvin Ridley, would you do it. I certainly would. We would literally be able to fill alot of our holes in this years draft,with top round talent considering trade ups,and our draft capital in 2022. 

[SAR I]

1st rounders in 2021, 2022
6th rounders in 2021, 2022
Matt Ryan

SAR I

[genot]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

1st rounders in 2021, 2022
6th rounders in 2021, 2022
Matt Ryan

SAR I

Whats your point SAR 1?

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Whats your point SAR 1?

If we trade down for a horde of picks, it must also include a starting quarterback.

Someone trading up for the top spot believes that Trevor Lawrence is the next John Elway.  Therefore we are owed their current starting quarterback as compensation.

SAR I

[JustInFudge]

Right now, I'm leaning in this direction.

The haul would be MASSIVE.  If executed properly, the best influx of young talent we've ever had on this team instead of putting it all on the shoulders of a kid.

Plus; you could still be in play for Fields/Lance if that was your preference or yeah, float something for Ryan or sign Jameis Winston, etc.

 

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

If we trade down for a horde of picks, it must also include a starting quarterback.

Someone trading up for the top spot believes that Trevor Lawrence is the next John Elway.  Therefore we are owed their current starting quarterback as compensation.

SAR I

If we trade down its because JD likes Sam and hes our starting QB or because he likes Fields and can still grab him in the draft and more

[playtowinthegame]

Jets cannot afford to pass on Lawrence. Darnold rookie contract is coming to an end, and the Jets are in need of a major overhaul. Trading Darnold is the right move for the Jets, and perhaps the right move for Darnold's career in the NFL.

Trade Sam to an NFC team for a low 1st or high 2nd rd pick, and wish him well. 

[genot]

Just now, SAR I said:

If we trade down for a horde of picks, it must also include a starting quarterback.

SAR I

I think we can win with with Sam. Look at what he did the last 10 games last year with mediocre talent,at best Are we judging him on his bad play the first three games this year. Hogan,berrios, and an invisible TE?

[SAR I]

7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

If we trade down its because JD likes Sam and hes our starting QB or because he likes Fields and can still grab him in the draft and more

There's another line of thinking that says Lawrence doesn't want to play here and Darnold isn't the man.  In that case we need to use the pick to leverage someone else's starting quarterback in a trade.  You have to look at it from a standpoint that no free agent is going to want to come here and no great college prospect either.  So the only way to get a quality starter is an established starter on another team who is looking to prove himself for his second act.

Matt Ryan
Nick Foles
Matthew Stafford
Derek Carr
Kirk Cousins
Carson Wentz
Jimmy Garropolo
Ryan Tannehill

Something like that.  So we get the typical haul for the #1 in the form of multiple 1's and 2's and we also get their established starter who can step in right away and play.  The Jets target the starter they want, approach that team, and call the shots.  But it must include a bonafide NFL starter or we're dead.

SAR I

[genot]

2 minutes ago, playtowinthegame said:

Jets cannot afford to pass on Lawrence. Darnold rookie contract is coming to an end, and the Jets are in need of a major overhaul. Trading Darnold is the right move for the Jets, and perhaps the right move for Darnold's career in the NFL.

Trade Sam to an NFC team for a low 1st or high 2nd rd pick, and wish him well. 

We have too many holes to fill. Unless you feel that Darnold is beyond repair, which i think is beyond wrong

[genot]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

There's another line of thinking that says Lawrence doesn't want to play here and Darnold isn't the man.  In that case we need to use the pick to leverage someone else's starting quarterback in a trade.  You have to look at it from a standpoint that no free agent is going to want to come here and no great college prospect either.  So the only way to get a quality starter is an established starter on another team who is looking to prove himself for his second act.

Matt Ryan
Nick Foles
Matthew Stafford
Derek Carr
Kirk Cousins
Carson Wentz
Jimmy Garropolo
Ryan Tannehill

So we get the typical haul for the #1 in the form of multiple 1's and 2's and we also get their established starter who can step in right away and play.

SAR I

I'd take Darnold over every one of them. That's something the Jet's would do,which means it would be a mistake

[playtowinthegame]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

We have too many holes to fill. Unless you feel that Darnold is beyond repair, which i think is beyond wrong

If Jets pass on Lawrence then the franchise deserves to be contracted.

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, genot said:

I think we can win with with Sam. Look at what he did the last 10 games last year with mediocre talent,at best Are we judging him on his bad play the first three games this year. Hogan,berrios, and an invisible TE?

Hey, I love Sam, but he's injury prone, hasn't shown consistency, and lacks that eye of the tiger.

If we don't get Lawrence we must get a starting quarterback either to replace Sam or compete with him, push him, make him better.

The point is, unless Sam has an amazing last 10 games this season, it's too big a risk to just ride him out and not leverage the best QB since Elway to get a legitimate veteran NFL replacement.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, genot said:

I'd take Darnold over every one of them. That's something the Jet's would do,which means it would be a mistake

I'd take Stafford plus a haul of picks instead of a) Darnold and a haul of picks or b) Lawrence and no picks.

You really need to think through who is the quarterback when we come out of the draft.  That's the priority.  Not the haul itself.

SAR I

[ryu79]

I understand that Darnold's contract is an issue, but if we are in a position to draft at 1, doesn't that give us unusual leverage to negotiate something favorable with Sam that is more incentive driven and still advantageous? 

[genot]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Hey, I love Sam, but he's injury prone, hasn't shown consistency, and lacks that eye of the tiger.

If we don't get Lawrence we must get a starting quarterback either to replace Sam or compete with him, push him, make him better.

The point is, unless Sam has an amazing last 10 games this season, it's too big a risk to just ride him out and not leverage the best QB since Elway to get a legitimate veteran NFL replacement.

SAR I

Sam hasn't shown consistency because of the inconsistency around him. How many can't miss players have been drafted and turned out to be busts or just average players at the NFL level. Think about it.

[Stark]

15 minutes ago, JiF said:

Right now, I'm leaning in this direction.

The haul would be MASSIVE.  If executed properly, the best influx of young talent we've ever had on this team instead of putting it all on the shoulders of a kid.

Plus; you could still be in play for Fields/Lance if that was your preference or yeah, float something for Ryan or sign Jameis Winston, etc.

 

I had an argument with a fan about this. I simply said you have to consider trading out of the #1 overall pick to get the huge amount of picks. After he was done calling me a moron and saying that Lawrence is to valuable, I simply asked him... if you were to substitute him for Sam right now how different is this team? Sure we get "next andrew luck, or peyton manning type" but we still need Oline, WRs, Pass rushers, corners and all of those positions its not just 1 player needed its multiple. You could literally have 4 of the top 32 picks at minimum and maybe 6-8 in top 50... that's not even counting the next draft pick accumulation and the insane amount of money in Free Agency.

 

He looked at me and literally cocked his head and said, sh!t... you might have a point. 

 

I said yes, however it does depend on the HC, but you absolutely consider possibly getting 6- 8 top 50 players in this draft and possibly 4-7 in the next draft.

 

[playtowinthegame]

I would need a teams 1st and 2nd rd pick for 5 straight years to pass on Sunshine.

[SAR I]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

Sam hasn't shown consistency because of the inconsistency around him. How many can't miss players have been drafted and turned out to be busts or just average players at the NFL level. Think about it.

I agree that the roster has been sh-t and it has impeded Darnold.  No question about it.  But there's another side of his play that has nothing to do with the receivers or the coaching and has everything to do with retaining what he's been taught.  He's making mistakes that he should have experienced, processed, and corrected in high school or college. 

Let's not turn this into another Darnold thread.  Let's just leave it at there is enough doubt that it warrants exploring another option either through the draft or someone else's starter.

SAR I

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, Stark said:

I had an argument with a fan about this. I simply said you have to consider trading out of the #1 overall pick to get the huge amount of picks. After he was done calling me a moron and saying that Lawrence is to valuable, I simply asked him... if you were to substitute him for Sam right now how different is this team?

Fun fact:  The New York Jets have 28 players on 1 year contracts.

You are right.  The Jets need the haul of picks as much as they need a quarterback upgrade.  It's going to be a very interesting April if we get the top spot.

SAR I

[genot]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

I agree that the roster has been sh-t and it has impeded Darnold.  No question about it.  But there's another side of his play that has nothing to do with the receivers or the coaching and has everything to do with retaining what he's been taught.  He's making mistakes that he should have experienced, processed, and corrected in high school or college. 

Let's not turn this into another Darnold thread.  Let's just leave it at there is enough doubt that it warrants exploring another option either through the draft or someone else's starter.

SAR I

Before the season started had you already given up on Sam. Honestly.

[SAR I]

Just now, genot said:

Before the season started had you already given up on Sam. Honestly.

You have me confused with someone else.  I had us at 10-6 with Darnold a done-deal franchise quarterback.  I called him the best quarterback in the division.  I said he was Top 3 in the AFC.  But after seeing him in Buffalo, the doubt crept in and there is nothing I have seen since that would make me feel any differently.  

SAR I

[More Cowbell]

29 minutes ago, SAR I said:

If we trade down for a horde of picks, it must also include a starting quarterback.

Someone trading up for the top spot believes that Trevor Lawrence is the next John Elway.  Therefore we are owed their current starting quarterback as compensation.

SAR I

Matt Ryan is in the league 13 years and Darnold is still your starter even if he is here. What is the point?

[Greenseed4]

In OPs trade scenario I would then draft Penei Sewell at #3 and load up on weapons throughout this draft (a RB1, a TE, and another promising WR to go with Mims and Ridley)

Then, even if Sam was to prove that he’s not “the guy,” despite us building a wall and loading his war chest... we would be a very desirable spot - with all the pieces in place - for any future QB. 

[genot]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

You have me confused with someone else.  I had us at 10-6 with Darnold a done-deal franchise quarterback.  I called him the best quarterback in the division.  I said he was Top 3 in the AFC.  But after seeing him in Buffalo, the doubt crept in and there is nothing I have seen since that would make me feel any differently.  

SAR I

To judge him on what he's done this year,is so shortsighted. He was throwing to practice squad receivers, under duress much of the time.

[More Cowbell]

34 minutes ago, JiF said:

Right now, I'm leaning in this direction.

The haul would be MASSIVE.  If executed properly, the best influx of young talent we've ever had on this team instead of putting it all on the shoulders of a kid.

Plus; you could still be in play for Fields/Lance if that was your preference or yeah, float something for Ryan or sign Jameis Winston, etc.

 

There is no point in drafting anyone except Lawrence. We would be worse if we did that and they aren't considered can't miss prospects. Also resetting the rookie clock is also meaningless because there are no other players on this team to resign except Sam and Becton and Becton is 4 years from now. I'm not even sure we resign Q. 

[ZachEY]

35 minutes ago, JiF said:

Right now, I'm leaning in this direction.

The haul would be MASSIVE.  If executed properly, the best influx of young talent we've ever had on this team instead of putting it all on the shoulders of a kid.

Plus; you could still be in play for Fields/Lance if that was your preference or yeah, float something for Ryan or sign Jameis Winston, etc.

 

Don't see it.  Easy to execute from the outside looking in, but if it's your career on the line, I'm not sure you can pass on Lawrence, and have that albatross around your neck.  I think, ultimately, the person making the decision doesn't take the chance of skipping out on the "generational talent" and being out of work and remembered for nothing more than that.

[SAR I]

Just now, More Cowbell said:

Matt Ryan is in the league 13 years and Darnold is still your starter even if he is here. What is the point?

Just saying there is a third scenario.  One where Lawrence won't play here and Darnold isn't our future.  And in that case, any trade down for a haul of picks must also include a bonafide NFL starter. 

My opinion, that's the most likely scenario.  So the sooner we start thinking about what other team's starting quarterback we want, the sooner we can have meaningful dialog.

SAR I

[genot]

2 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

In OPs trade scenario I would then draft Penei Sewell at #3 and load up on weapons throughout this draft (a RB1, a TE, and another promising WR to go with Mims and Ridley)

Then, even if Sam was to prove that he’s not “the guy,” despite us building a wall and loading his war chest... we would be a very desirable spot - with all the pieces in place - for any future QB. 

We can't forget about defense. You still have to play it,even in today's NFL. One big reason why we need to accumulate a whole bunch of picks. 

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Then, even if Sam was to prove that he’s not “the guy,” despite us building a wall and loading his war chest... we would be a very desirable spot - with all the pieces in place - for any future QB. 

No way.  That's the endless quarterback hamster wheel we've been on since 1975.  

Having the Trevor Lawrence pick is our one chance to have a real do-over on blowing the Darnold pick (if it comes to that) and so we must walk away with a legitimate starting quarterback.  Either Lawrence himself or someone else's starter gotten in the very trade that gives them (who they believe is) the next John Elway.

SAR I

[More Cowbell]

30 minutes ago, SAR I said:

There's another line of thinking that says Lawrence doesn't want to play here and Darnold isn't the man.  In that case we need to use the pick to leverage someone else's starting quarterback in a trade.  You have to look at it from a standpoint that no free agent is going to want to come here and no great college prospect either.  So the only way to get a quality starter is an established starter on another team who is looking to prove himself for his second act.

Matt Ryan
Nick Foles
Matthew Stafford
Derek Carr
Kirk Cousins
Carson Wentz
Jimmy Garropolo
Ryan Tannehill

Something like that.  So we get the typical haul for the #1 in the form of multiple 1's and 2's and we also get their established starter who can step in right away and play.  The Jets target the starter they want, approach that team, and call the shots.  But it must include a bonafide NFL starter or we're dead.

SAR I

None of the QB's you listed will be traded. You are thinking the other GM is stupid and why would you want Wentz, Files, or Cousins. They aren't that good. 

[genot]

2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Don't see it.  Easy to execute from the outside looking in, but if it's your career on the line, I'm not sure you can pass on Lawrence, and have that albatross around your neck.  I think, ultimately, the person making the decision doesn't take the chance of skipping out on the "generational talent" and being out of work and remembered for nothing more than that.

What do we do about C,RG, WR,TE, CB, ILB, EDGE,etc,etc. You get my point. 

[ChuckkieB]

If the Jets end up with the #1 pick, it likely means that Darnold was unable to raise his play enough to propel him to franchise QB status here, and the Jets would NEVER pass up drafting Lawrence under that scenario.  In fact, there is no scenario in which they would ever trade the #1 pick.

If Darnold lights it up, they Jets won't end up with the #1 pick, and if he poops the bed, they'll get it and draft Lawrence.  The Darnold decision is going to basically make itself.

[T0mShane]

50 minutes ago, genot said:

If we have the first pick, had the opportunity to trade down with Atlanta to get an additional 2nd,3rd, in 2021, and a 1st in 22, plus Calvin Ridley, would you do it. I certainly would. We would literally be able to fill alot of our holes in this years draft,with top round talent considering trade ups,and our draft capital in 2022. 

I’m only doing something like this if I get a premiere HC in here before the trade and that coach tells me he just loves Darnold (or Fields) so much that he doesn’t care about Lawrence. I’m not passing up Lawrence and asking any unknown coach to compensate for it, regardless of the draft picks.

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Don't see it.  Easy to execute from the outside looking in, but if it's your career on the line, I'm not sure you can pass on Lawrence, and have that albatross around your neck.  I think, ultimately, the person making the decision doesn't take the chance of skipping out on the "generational talent" and being out of work and remembered for nothing more than that.

Gase is the one who will make the decision and he clearly is impervious to what other people think.  So trading out of the spot is definitely plausible.  

The tank isn't for Lawrence; it's for the haul of picks.  We have 28 players on 1 year deals and we are the least desirable destination in the NFL.  If this draft replenishes us profoundly we can shave 2 years off the rebuild and get back to the playoffs far faster.

SAR I