I want Penei Sewell at 2nd Overall

[RobR]

18 hours ago, bitonti said:

Either way he's more like Trent brown than David bakthiari. 

This might be the most ignorant statement I have ever seen from you and that's saying alot. Although I do remember when you called Becton a fat slob without ever watching him play, so there's that.

There is not one GM in the league that would be disappointed how Becton played during his rookie season and I'm not even bringing up all the extenuating circumstances.

[bitonti]

1 hour ago, RobR said:

This might be the most ignorant statement I have ever seen from you and that's saying alot. Although I do remember when you called Becton a fat slob without ever watching him play, so there's that.

There is not one GM in the league that would be disappointed how Becton played during his rookie season and I'm not even bringing up all the extenuating circumstances.

Yikes dude 

He's given up 11 sacks. He missed 2 games 

I like Becton as well. I didn't say that he was a bad pick or a bad person.

It's just possible he'd be better at rt 

[kdels62]

14 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Yikes dude 

He's given up 11 sacks. He missed 2 games 

I like Becton as well. I didn't say that he was a bad pick or a bad person.

It's just possible he'd be better at rt 

Wow so you doubled down on the incorrect claim. 

anyway pressure rate for Trent Williams as a rookie: 7.8% 

Pressure Rate for Mekhi Becton 5.6%

Also Garrett Bolles just got a $17 million a year contract. He doesn’t suck at all

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Wow so you doubled down on the incorrect claim. 

anyway pressure rate for Trent Williams as a rookie: 7.8% 

Pressure Rate for Mekhi Becton 5.6%

Also Garrett Bolles just got a $17 million a year contract. He doesn’t suck at all

7 Sacks, 11 sacks all I know it was too high for such a premium player 

5% pressure, playing less than 90 percent of the games 

The correct amount of sacks to allow is zero.

The correct amount of games to miss is zero. 

I like Becton but he looks like a powerful right tackle and plays like one too. He's not lock down pass pro he's just really really big 

And yes, Virginia, Garrett Bolles sucks. Guys like him and Eric fisher get second deals because the tackle market is brutal not because they are any good 

[RobR]

16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Yikes dude 

He's given up 11 sacks. He missed 2 games 

I like Becton as well. I didn't say that he was a bad pick or a bad person.

It's just possible he'd be better at rt 

Where are you getting this 11 sacks number from? It's false and you already admitted it was false earlier, so I have no idea where you are coming from.

He had one of the most dominant rookie seasons I've ever seen for a 21 year old LT. He also had no OTA's, no preseason, and was saddled with Darnold as his QB, who holds the ball forever and can't read a blitz or escape pressure to save his life. 

He had one of the lowest pressure rates allowed in the league for a LT. 

Let me ask you this question. What did you expect out of him as a rookie under those circumstances that you would want to move him to RT? He's going to be the best LT in the NFL next year and was close to it this year.

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

7 Sacks, 11 sacks all I know it was too high for such a premium player 

5% pressure, playing less than 90 percent of the games 

The correct amount of sacks to allow is zero.

The correct amount of games to miss is zero. 

I like Becton but he looks like a powerful right tackle and plays like one too. He's not lock down pass pro he's just really really big 

 

So this is bad analysis. Rookie tackles have learning curves, I just showed you top tackles in the league and how they performed as rookies. They improve from there. But you have a bad take and want to stick to it and every time you repeat it I will correct you.

[RobR]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

The correct amount of sacks to allow is zero.

The correct amount of games to miss is zero. 

Now you're just talking garbage. Every LT gives up a sack now and then and misses a game. Maybe you should go back and look at how many sacks Brick gave up as a rookie and throughout his career.

We have a rookie LT that gives up a sack to Myles Garrett and he now suddenly stinks, even though he dominated him the other 50 plays throughout the game.

 

[bitonti]

Just now, RobR said:

Where are you getting this 11 sacks number from? It's false and you already admitted it was false earlier, so I have no idea where you are coming from.

He had one of the most dominant rookie seasons I've ever seen for a 21 year old LT. He also had no OTA's, no preseason, and was saddled with Darnold as his QB, who holds the ball forever and can't read a blitz or escape pressure to save his life. 

He had one of the lowest pressure rates allowed in the league for a LT. 

Let me ask you this question. What did you expect out of him as a rookie under those circumstances that you would want to move him to RT? He's going to be the best LT in the NFL next year and was close to it this year.

I said 7 the board corrected me to 11. I don't know where they got it espn? 

This is not about Becton living up to expectations it's about building an NFL football team. 

Right now the offense is left handed Rob and you know it

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to run in 2 directions? George Fant is not a starter by the way he's a backup who gets pushed back into Sam's lap and Sam throws ints 

Fant should be on the bench. Shoot I don't care if they draft Sewell at rt that's fine too. I'm not a fan of players dictate to the organization where they should play, especially rookies 

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

So this is bad analysis. Rookie tackles have learning curves, I just showed you top tackles in the league and how they performed as rookies. They improve from there. But you have a bad take and want to stick to it and every time you repeat it I will correct you.

Your "analysis" doesn't prove that the Jets have the infrastructure to support the qb in this draft 

You just proved Becton was good. I never said he wasn't.

that's not the same as proving that drafting fields or TL is better than drafting a lineman and building 

That's an assumption. 

Sewell is a low risk player compared to these qb, he's an elite prospect in his own right and the team has room for both him and Becton. 

[RobR]

Just now, bitonti said:

I said 7 the board corrected me to 11. I don't know where they got it espn? 

This is not about Becton living up to expectations it's about building an NFL football team. 

Right now the offense is left handed Rob and you know it

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to run in 2 directions? George Fant is not a starter by the way he's a backup who gets pushed back into Sam's lap and Sam throws ints 

Fant should be on the bench. Shoot I don't care if they draft Sewell at rt that's fine too. I'm not a fan of players dictate to the organization where they should play, especially rookies 

Sam is a huge reason when people blame this line, look no further than todays game. He has no pocket presence and can't read a blitz to save his life. He holds the ball when pressure comes right up the middle instead of rolling and throwing like any good QB. If Becton was the starting LT for the Bucs or Packers you'd be reading how he only gave up 2-3 sacks this year. 

[bitonti]

4 minutes ago, RobR said:

Now you're just talking garbage. Every LT gives up a sack now and then and misses a game. Maybe you should go back and look at how many sacks Brick gave up as a rookie and throughout his career.

We have a rookie LT that gives up a sack to Myles Garrett and he now suddenly stinks, even though he dominated him the other 50 plays throughout the game.

 

It was 1 sack official... another that was ruled incomplete not ff but myles Garrett basically ripped Sam's arm off 

Brick was a good player he did not have an Orlando pace or Joe Thomas career. Becton is good, Sewell is better and I want them both 

Maybe you can explain to me how drafting a qb now is any smarter than drafting Sam. 

I know Sewell won't bust. The qbs are wild swings in comparison and this team is not ready to support the franchise qb Pick. It's opening that sb window early 

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, RobR said:

Sam is a huge reason when people blame this line, look no further than todays game. He has no pocket presence and can't read a blitz to save his life. He holds the ball when pressure comes right up the middle instead of rolling and throwing like any good QB. If Becton was the starting LT for the Bucs or Packers you'd be reading how he only gave up 2-3 sacks this year. 

This might be true it's a hypothetical but it's not apparent that either fields or TL have Brady or Rodgers level mastery of the game. In fact they are rookies that will need to learn how to read the defense and that takes years 

Take the lineman, build a program, then take the expensive qb 

Expecting the qb to be a savior while every other position (except left tackle) sucks is exactly what got us here with 23 year old Sam looking like a 40 year old retired player. He never got a chance to develop. 

[kdels62]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Your "analysis" doesn't prove that the Jets have the infrastructure to support the qb in this draft 

You just proved Becton was good. I never said he wasn't.

that's not the same as proving that drafting fields or TL is better than drafting a lineman and building 

That's an assumption. 

Sewell is a low risk player compared to these qb, he's an elite prospect in his own right and the team has room for both him and Becton. 

Literally you claim Becton is not worthy of that spot, that Sewell will come in and be better. That’s unlikely in year one and irrelevant over a career. Becton is going to be a great LT for years and that position is set. 

I agree this team isn’t great, but have you seen Sam work in the pocket? He’s awful. There’s a FA and more draft picks available to us to improve RT. The improvement to a league average QB from Sam Darnold would be worth more than Penei Sewell replacing George Fant.

[RobR]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

It was 1 sack official... another that was ruled incomplete not ff but myles Garrett basically ripped Sam's arm off 

Brick was a good player he did not have an Orlando pace or Joe Thomas career. Becton is good, Sewell is better and I want them both 

Maybe you can explain to me how drafting a qb now is any smarter than drafting Sam. 

I know Sewell won't bust. The qbs are wild swings in comparison and this team is not ready to support the franchise qb Pick. It's opening that sb window early 

Because we need a QB even more than we need another OT at 2nd overall. Did you not realize we have another first rounder, two thirds, and if we're lucky and can trade Darnold for a 2nd, we'd also have two second rounders. 

I like Sewell but it's hard to devote your last two first round picks for OT's as much as I love them. QB trumps all positions and we don't have one and haven't had one since Fitz was here....as sad as that statement is, it's true.

[RobR]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

He never got a chance to develop. 

He was never good, no matter where he would have been drafted.

[King P]

8 hours ago, Rep said:

I honestly don’t think Fields will be an elite NFL QB. And even if he’s good after a year or two of development, he’s the type of player that will be good for a few years, lose some of his mobility, and not be the same great player ever again. A Cam Newton type of player. Dual threat quarterbacks just don’t tend to last that long in the NFL.

I think the smart move would be to let someone else trade with us to take him and get burned by the hype.

He's a better passer than Cam. Plenty of dual threat QBs have lasted

[RobR]

47 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I know Sewell won't bust. The qbs are wild swings in comparison and this team is not ready to support the franchise qb Pick. It's opening that sb window early 

Do you realize that Sewell has missed more games to injury over two college seasons than Becton has over three college seasons and one NFL season?

[bitonti]

43 minutes ago, RobR said:

Because we need a QB even more than we need another OT at 2nd overall. Did you not realize we have another first rounder, two thirds, and if we're lucky and can trade Darnold for a 2nd, we'd also have two second rounders. 

I like Sewell but it's hard to devote your last two first round picks for OT's as much as I love them. QB trumps all positions and we don't have one and haven't had one since Fitz was here....as sad as that statement is, it's true.

Why not use the Jamal Adams pick or top of Rd 2 on the qb 

The league is full of great qb who didn't go top 3

Maybe trey Lance is the dude. I don't know. 

The idea that they need a qb so they must go qb is how we end up with year 4 Sam 23 and done in this town 

Sewell at OT isn't ideal for team building it would be better if he were a Julio Jones level wr or Calvin Johnson 

That's the thing about the draft. You take what it offers. You don't demand it by position 

[Ruby2]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Why not use the Jamal Adams pick or top of Rd 2 on the qb 

The league is full of great qb who didn't go top 3

Maybe trey Lance is the dude. I don't know. 

The idea that they need a qb so they must go qb is how we end up with year 4 Sam 23 and done in this town 

Sewell at OT isn't ideal for team building it would be better if he were a Julio Jones level wr or Calvin Johnson 

That's the thing about the draft. You take what it offers. You don't demand it by position 

Fields entered college as one of the highest rated prospect ever, and has done nothing but produce. Dude was throwing 55 yards bombs after getting 30 ribs broken.

You mention taking what the draft offers. That dude is offered to you right there at number 2! If you don't take a shot at a QB like him at 2, when would you?

[bitonti]

6 minutes ago, RobR said:

Do you realize that Sewell has missed more games to injury over two college seasons than Becton has over three college seasons and one NFL season?

I'm unconcerned by his high ankle sprain.

I don't believe Becton is a bad player by the way. He's not a vocal leader. Sewell holds that entire team accountable on the field. Becton might be the best run blocker in history, but He's not perfect at pass pro. Sewell literally is perfect something like 1 pressure over 2 years, only true sophomore Outland trophy winner. And he's also a 99 percent physical freak like Becton. 

A team needs 2 tackles. A team needs stars. 

Let's make it a super unit. Get 2 roosters in this hen house. 

[bitonti]

5 minutes ago, Ruby2 said:

Fields entered college as one of the highest rated prospect ever, and has done nothing but produce. Dude was throwing 55 yards bombs after getting 30 ribs broken.

You mention taking what the draft offers. That dude is offered to you right there at number 2! If you don't take a shot at a QB like him at 2, when would you?

The case can be made that Sewell is better at playing tackle than TL or fields is at playing qb. Even with field's last great game.

I'm not going to cry if they draft the qb he's good too. I'm concerned about the arm velocity. Trevor has a golden arm but I'm concerned he's soft somehow. 

Sewell is a 99 all ncaa prospect, fields might be a 94 or something and TL is 96 or whatever we need that guy too but Sewell is just a little better than both or at least we could have that conversation 

Especially in hindsight 

This feels like a better Quenton Nelson but at tackle. The jets need instant all pros not necessarily a guy who needs 3 years to get comfortable 

[RobR]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Why not use the Jamal Adams pick or top of Rd 2 on the qb 

The league is full of great qb who didn't go top 3

Maybe trey Lance is the dude. I don't know. 

The idea that they need a qb so they must go qb is how we end up with year 4 Sam 23 and done in this town 

Sewell at OT isn't ideal for team building it would be better if he were a Julio Jones level wr or Calvin Johnson 

That's the thing about the draft. You take what it offers. You don't demand it by position 

Because how often do you have the second overall pick? Let JD build around the QB of his choosing, not to mention there's some good ones this year. As long as Woody gives him full control to bring in the coach of his choice I'm good, and that is what we are hearing already. 

Do you really want to play the card of pushing out the QB pick to next years unknown?  

[Ruby2]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

The case can be made that Sewell is better at playing tackle than TL or fields is at playing qb. Even with field's last great game.

I'm not going to cry if they draft the qb he's good too. I'm concerned about the arm velocity. Trevor has a golden arm but I'm concerned he's soft somehow. 

Sewell is a 99 all ncaa prospect, fields might be a 94 or something and TL is 96 or whatever we need that guy too but Sewell is just a little better than both or at least we could have that conversation 

Especially in hindsight 

This feels like a better Quenton Nelson but at tackle. The jets need instant all pros not necessarily a guy who needs 3 years to get comfortable 

Fair points, but personally im discounting the fact that a QB is more important than a tackle, especially when we just took a very good one.

If Fields wasnt sitting there, I could be on board with your plan, I even dont hate your plan as is, just think Fields is good enough to take there, regardless of Sewell. I think we are seeing this the same way, just opposite, if that makes sense, lol.

[RobR]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I'm unconcerned by his high ankle sprain.

I don't believe Becton is a bad player by the way. He's not a vocal leader. Sewell holds that entire team accountable on the field. Becton might be the best run blocker in history, but He's not perfect at pass pro. Sewell literally is perfect something like 1 pressure over 2 years, only true sophomore Outland trophy winner. And he's also a 99 percent physical freak like Becton. 

A team needs 2 tackles. A team needs stars. 

Let's make it a super unit. Get 2 roosters in this hen house. 

There is so much misinformation in this post I don't know where to start so I'll start with this. If you watched Becton over his college career like you know I did, you would see one of the most cerebral LT's I've ever scouted. Not only was he calling protections but he would also call the plays for the QB. 

Sewell is a great prospect.....I won't argue that, but when you call him bust proof I chuckle a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't watched one game tape from him, not unlike Becton last year. You're just spouting off numbers you probably got off of PFF which is beyond flawed.

And FTR no LT is perfect at pass pro. They're humans and sometimes a great edge rusher gets the best of them. It has literally happened to every single LT that has ever played the game. 

[Philc1]

On 1/2/2021 at 4:53 AM, joewilly12 said:

Are you watching Justin Fields put on a show destroying Clemson. 

You mean like how Cardale Jones dominated the college football playoffs just a couple years ago?

[Philc1]

9 hours ago, bitonti said:

I'm unconcerned by his high ankle sprain.

I don't believe Becton is a bad player by the way. He's not a vocal leader. Sewell holds that entire team accountable on the field. Becton might be the best run blocker in history, but He's not perfect at pass pro. Sewell literally is perfect something like 1 pressure over 2 years, only true sophomore Outland trophy winner. And he's also a 99 percent physical freak like Becton. 

A team needs 2 tackles. A team needs stars. 

Let's make it a super unit. Get 2 roosters in this hen house. 

Build the best OL since the 90’s Cowboys

 

[bitonti]

12 hours ago, RobR said:

There is so much misinformation in this post I don't know where to start so I'll start with this. If you watched Becton over his college career like you know I did, you would see one of the most cerebral LT's I've ever scouted. Not only was he calling protections but he would also call the plays for the QB. 

Sewell is a great prospect.....I won't argue that, but when you call him bust proof I chuckle a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't watched one game tape from him, not unlike Becton last year. You're just spouting off numbers you probably got off of PFF which is beyond flawed.

And FTR no LT is perfect at pass pro. They're humans and sometimes a great edge rusher gets the best of them. It has literally happened to every single LT that has ever played the game. 

I'm not saying Becton sucks 

You're coming hot with these personal attacks like you're his agent or something 

I do not want to prove Becton stinks he may or may not be as good as Sewell 

The real problem is Fant and the entire right side sucking 

I do not care which one moves to rt 

But the Jets need 2 of these guys more than another qb who needs 3 years 

[bitonti]

12 hours ago, RobR said:

Because how often do you have the second overall pick? Let JD build around the QB of his choosing, not to mention there's some good ones this year. As long as Woody gives him full control to bring in the coach of his choice I'm good, and that is what we are hearing already. 

Do you really want to play the card of pushing out the QB pick to next years unknown?  

The point of taking a qb in the 1st Rd is to control him with a fifth year option 

Sam Darnold just wiped out so hard, they didn't even use his option. 

Yes I'd rather push on the qb pick because this team needs 9 new starters on offense and to put a Fields in that situation is asking too much 

 

Here's a stat the Jets have 9 total rushing td there are several individuals on other teams with more than that 

The Jets simply aren't ready or equipped to develop any qb at the moment and coaching / fa / the other picks won't fix how bad this team is on offense. Only impact players all pro types will do it and those are hard to find outside of the top 3

[joewilly12]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

You mean like how Cardale Jones dominated the college football playoffs just a couple years ago?

So all NCAA QB's are now compared to Cardale Jones. 

[nycdan]

14 hours ago, bitonti said:

The case can be made that Sewell  Adams is better at playing tackle  Safety than TL Watson or fields Mahomes is at playing qb.

 

Do we really need to do this.  QB is just different.  You know it.  I know you know it.  Why are you dying on this hill?  Did the Gase firing putting an end to SAR's trolling leave a void you feel needs to be filled?

[nycdan]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

The point of taking a qb in the 1st Rd is to control him with a fifth year option 

Sam Darnold just wiped out so hard, they didn't even use his option. 

Yes I'd rather push on the qb pick because this team needs 9 new starters on offense and to put a Fields in that situation is asking too much 

 

Here's a stat the Jets have 9 total rushing td there are several individuals on other teams with more than that 

The Jets simply aren't ready or equipped to develop any qb at the moment and coaching / fa / the other picks won't fix how bad this team is on offense. Only impact players all pro types will do it and those are hard to find outside of the top 3

Now we're into good discussion territory.  I agree with your position on this.  Bringing a good QB prospect into a sh-tshow is not a great situation.  Building the foundation first (like DAL in the 80s or KC recently) is far better.

But...you only have a few chances each decade, if you're really bad and really lucky, to draft a potentially great QB.  Yes, there are Rodgers, Wilson, Brady and Brees out there, but your odds of getting a great QB really are better in the top few picks.  We have enough cap and draft capital to significantly improve the team even if we use the #2 pick on a QB.  The alternative is to build the team and risk drafting around #15 next year without a great option at the QB position.  Tough call.  Fair debate either way.  I wouldn't reach for Wilson or any of the other QBs this draft at #2, but I think Fields is good enough to be worth the risk.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

14 hours ago, RobR said:

If you watched Becton over his college career like you know I did, you would see one of the most cerebral LT's I've ever scouted.

Dr. Hawking sure seems to make a lot of false starts.

[MindOverMatter]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

I'm not saying Becton sucks 

You're coming hot with these personal attacks like you're his agent or something 

I do not want to prove Becton stinks he may or may not be as good as Sewell 

The real problem is Fant and the entire right side sucking 

I do not care which one moves to rt 

But the Jets need 2 of these guys more than another qb who needs 3 years 

Sewell is a great prospect and I would love to draft him but it's painfully clear Sam isn't the answer. You argue that the Jets can wait until the 2nd 1st round pick or later to draft a QB, but IMO that's what they should do with the Tackle position. Guard seems to be the bigger problem anyway. Fant isn't a problem in pass protection, it's his run blocking that is awful.

Take Fields at 2. With the 2nd 1st rounder take highest rated skill position player, edge, or tackle. Rnd 2 grab a big runblocking guard to help out Fant or just replace Fant for good and be done with it. Hard to justify taking a Tackle at 2 with the current QB situation. 

With a better QB the line will look and play better. Taking Sewell will almost unsure that the Jets will not be picking top 3 for awhile. Line will win a few games on their own. Have to take advantage and take a QB now, IMO.

[bitonti]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

Do we really need to do this.  QB is just different.  You know it.  I know you know it.  Why are you dying on this hill?  Did the Gase firing putting an end to SAR's trolling leave a void you feel needs to be filled?

Im not dying on this hill but I am planting a flag that 5 years from now we look back and say "holy sh*t, why did we pass on penei sewell" the same way we say "holy sh*t why did we trade up for Sam instead of just taking Quenton Nelson" 

other teams like the Ravens and chiefs did not have to take a QB at 2. The chiefs are the number one seed in the AFC. The Steelers didn't take a QB at 2 they took ben around 10 or 11 without looking it up. Tannehill wasn't a 2 pick. the whole playoffs are full of guys who didn't go top 3 

on the other hand the "David Carr memorial" list of QBs who went top 3 to teams that weren't ready is a long list

how about Joe Burrow for a cautionary tale? they gave him Tee higgins and a friendly pat on the back and his friggin knee exploded by Week 9 

 

44 minutes ago, MindOverMatter said:

Fant isn't a problem in pass protection, it's his run blocking that is awful.

Fant is only slightly better in pass protection than Bobby Hart, who got Joe Burrow murdered this year 

and yes we agree he's terrible at run blocking. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to run in two directions? 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Im not dying on this hill but I am planting a flag that 5 years from now we look back and say "holy sh*t, why did we pass on penei sewell" the same way we say "holy sh*t why did we trade up for Sam instead of just taking Quenton Nelson" 

other teams like the Ravens and chiefs did not have to take a QB at 2. The chiefs are the number one seed in the AFC. The Steelers didn't take a QB at 2 they took ben around 10 or 11 without looking it up. Tannehill wasn't a 2 pick. the whole playoffs are full of guys who didn't go top 3 

on the other hand the "David Carr memorial" list of QBs who went top 3 to teams that weren't ready is a long list

how about Joe Burrow for a cautionary tale? they gave him Tee higgins and a friendly pat on the back and his friggin knee exploded by Week 9 

 

Fant is only slightly better in pass protection than Bobby Hart, who got Joe Burrow murdered this year 

and yes we agree he's terrible at run blocking. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to run in two directions? 

You know I respect you bit, and very often agree. I don't here but that's ok. I'm curious to know what your view is of the likelihood that JD (a) passes on a QB at 2 and takes Sewell (or someone else); or (b) trades down. Thank you.