Does Justin Fields need to throw 7 TDs?

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Other than same program, same offense, same coaching staff basically yeah nothing

Different staff, different offense. But yeah, ok. And a different player.

This is like me saying, Philc1 makes a lot of simple premise and off-hand comments on Jetnation. Thus all Jetnation posters are simple premised.  Not true.

Now, if I wanted to say Philc1 makes many of the same comments as his formerly banned username, thus they are similar, then there would be some substance to that. 

[sec101row23]

This daily “stock report” on these QBs is amusing to read.   Justin played poorly in two games this year and people say he’s a second round QB.  He plays great against Clemson and he’s back to QB2 and worthy of the 2nd overall pick.  I’m sure there will be over-reactions either way on Tuesday morning.   I just hope some of these people don’t watch the North Cobb game when Justin was in high school, then they would probably have Justin as a 3rd round prospect. 

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Different staff, different offense. But yeah, ok. And a different player.

This is like me saying, Philc1 makes a lot of simple premise and off-hand comments on Jetnation. Thus all Jetnation posters are simple premised.  Not true.

Now, if I wanted to say Philc1 makes many of the same comments as his formerly banned username, thus they are similar, then there would be some substance to that. 

Again you seem to have a massive hardon for me because I’m not a met Red Sox cheerleader like yourself

 

And recheck your research Fields coaches in OSU are almost entirely the same the only difference is Meyer left but it’s still the same staff and yes the same exact offensive system just one read spread go the first progression after the defense tries to stop us on the ground

[Jetster]

Houstons trade with Miami really through a monkey wrench into this draft for the Jets. I know you can't worry about other teams in your division during the draft but I think they might be a player for a QB. And if not, they're trading back with someone who wants a QB. 

Best case scenario? Joe Douglas & the new coach love Fields & Wilson, trade back with Atlanta, Falcons grab Sewell. Miami picks or trades, Jets get Wilson or Fields, plus even more draft capital. But, your taking a huge risk if Atlanta takes 1 of the QBs! 

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

Again you seem to have a massive hardon for me because I’m not a met Red Sox cheerleader like yourself

 

And recheck your research Fields coaches in OSU are almost entirely the same the only difference is Meyer left but it’s still the same staff and yes the same exact offensive system just one read spread go the first progression after the defense tries to stop us on the ground

In what world is Fields and Cordalle Jones similar prospects?   Haskins and Jones were similar, but Fields’ skill set and football IQ is entirely different than Jones.  

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

In what world is Fields and Cordalle Jones similar prospects?   Haskins and Jones were similar, but Fields’ skill set and football IQ is entirely different than Jones.  

Take a look at Haskins and Fields stats last year at OSU.  They are almost identical except fields is the better runner

[sec101row23]

Just now, Philc1 said:

Take a look at Haskins and Fields stats last year at OSU.  They are almost identical except fields is the better runner

Stats are meaningless, what about their skill sets are so similar that you lump them together?   I’m not sure how anyone who actually watched both of those guys play can come away that they are similar QB prospects.  

[Scott Dierking]

7 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Again you seem to have a massive hardon for me because I’m not a met Red Sox cheerleader like yourself

 

And recheck your research Fields coaches in OSU are almost entirely the same the only difference is Meyer left but it’s still the same staff and yes the same exact offensive system just one read spread go the first progression after the defense tries to stop us on the ground

Cardale Jones left Ohio State after the 2015 season. Ryan Day was hired by OSU in 2017, and became Offensive Coordinator in 2018. Please, child.

Redsox? What planet do you live on?

[Dunnie]

So picking 2nd in the draft isn't good enough either and so it's time to start picking apart Justin Fields like 98% of the draftnicks here picked apart Josh Allen. I'll clearly admit, I haven't started watching College football until I moved to SC 2 years ago come April 1st. 
But here's something that is clear as day, this place was so anti Josh Allen that during the 2018 NFL draft, based on everything I read from the supposedly smartest Jet fans on this site, I thought for sure that Mike Maccagnan, being the idiot that he is would bypass the Stud QB Sam Darnold & take Josh Allen, THE WORST QB PROSPECT EVER according to most of the experts on this site.
Now I've already mentioned that I'm a novice when it comes to college ball, but I've been watching the NFL since I was a little boy. I've seen it evolve from the tough run to set up the pass league (sans Air Coryell & Dan Fouts), or Warren Moon & the run & shoot Oilers, to this hybrid league of very little defense, barely being able to hit anyone, and a multitude of rules put in to protect the QB. 
Im seeing fans that want to draft a skinny kid that looks like a girl & has had surgery on both shoulders & his hand? Now granted, what the hell do I know about this kids NFL future? Nothing, I'm not a soothsayer, but my gut tells me, are you people nuts? 
None of us have any idea what becomes of the QBs in this draft, based on the teams they go to, their development ect., but, what we do know is that QBs that can move, throw a bit on the run, have good size (Russell Wilsons, short but built, same as Murray), Lamar Jackson is just (right now) faster than everyone else on the field, are Outliers. Drew Brees was truly one of the only short pocket passers still successful in the league. Even Baker Mayfield can run a bit if need be. 
So, I'm gonna get to my point. Sam Darnold is finished here, we'll get something for him, I don't know what but I'm praying for a 2nd round pick. Jacksonville is going Trevor Lawrence, and why not? He's got the experience, he's from the South, and he'll be a shot in the arm to a struggling franchise. 
No one here today can predict the careers of Lawrence vs Fields, but there is nothing that I've seen after watching these guys on the same field that tells me beyond a doubt that Trevor Lawrence will be a better NFL QB than Justin Fields. They're virtually the same size, TL being maybe 3" taller, they both have strong arms, Fields has actually proven to be more accurate on long balls, they both can run, Fields is faster & much faster from 0-15, and they both have benefitted from Superior players around them compared to most of the competition. 
Why are we TRYING TO FIND EXCUSES not to draft Justin Fields? This is like B4 you get to the draft, it goes from, he's great, to look how many flaws we can find. Justin Fields has every single attribute, physically that succeeds in the new NFL. Size, arm strength, speed, heart, determination & toughness (proven on the biggest stages of college football). Will he succeed? Who the f*ck knows, but just based on what we do know makes for success in the NFL personally he's got IT ALL. We need a reset. New Head Coach, new young QB.
I'd be absolutely SHOCKED if come the draft in April, Roger Goodell isn't saying these words, With the 2nd overall pick in the 2021, the New York Jets select Justin Fields QB, Ohio State University. We earned that pick with one of our worst years in our sorry history! 

I have nothing at all bad to say about Trevor Lawrence, Zach Wilson or Justin Fields.

My personal preference is to take a qb with poise, supreme arm talent, pin point accuracy, and an off the charts football IQ ... running ability doesn't really factor in at all for me.

So I prefer Zach over Justin. Assuming we cannot draft Trevor.



Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[Philc1]

5 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Cardale Jones left Ohio State after the 2015 season. Ryan Day was hired by OSU in 2017, and became Offensive Coordinator in 2018. Please, child.

Redsox? What planet do you live on?

What part of the coaching staff has mostly stayed the same except the guy at the top do you not understand?  
 

Meyer didn’t leave until 2018

[sec101row23]

Just now, Philc1 said:

What part of the coaching staff has mostly stayed the same except the guy at the top do you not understand?

Expand on all these similarities between Jones and Fields as Qb prospects.  Other than “stats” and both playing for OSU. 

[Philc1]

9 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Stats are meaningless, what about their skill sets are so similar that you lump them together?   I’m not sure how anyone who actually watched both of those guys play can come away that they are similar QB prospects.  

They are both one read guys who have the luxury of wide open receivers the entire game 

 

That’s been quite a formula for success for Ohio State qbs

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

What part of the coaching staff has mostly stayed the same except the guy at the top do you not understand?  
 

Meyer didn’t leave until 2018

I am not sure what part of Ryan Day (the current OSU head coach and offensive mastermind) did not coach Cardale Jones ever, do you not understand?

Listen, being obstinate and stubborn in the face of abject facts is not a pretty look for you. 

I am done with you, as I usually am. Just decided to show you how ridiculous some of the stuff you say is. Always opinions, without any concrete support. Much why you were banned form this site in your first incarnation. Give Max and the team credit that he has allowed you to stay this time.

[Philc1]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

I am not sure what part of Ryan Day (the current OSU head coach and offensive mastermind) did not coach Cardale Jones ever, do you not understand?

Listen, being obstinate and stubborn in the face of abject facts is not a pretty look for you. 

I am done with you, as I usually am. Just decided to show you how ridiculous some of the stuff you say is. Always opinions, without any concrete support. Much why you were banned form this site in your first incarnation. Give Max and the team credit that he has allowed you to stay this time.

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

They are both one read guys who have the luxury of wide open receivers the entire game 

 

That’s been quite a formula for success for Ohio State qbs

Awesome comparison. Lol. 
 

I’ll put it this way, you can take all 32 GMs in the NFL, all 32 OCs, all 32 college scouting directors and every scout that works for these teams, and I would guarantee you that NONE of them will comp Justin Fields to Cordalle Jones as prospects.   But by all means continue this foolish comparison.  

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

Awesome comparison. Lol. 
 

I’ll put it this way, you can take all 32 GMs in the NFL, all 32 OCs, all 32 college scouting directors and every scout that works for these teams, and I would guarantee you that NONE of them will comp Justin Fields to Cordalle Jones as prospects.   But by all means continue this foolish comparison.  

What are you now Justin Fields’ father because he beat your Clemson?

[sec101row23]

Just now, Philc1 said:

What are you now Justin Fields’ father because he beat your Clemson?

You’re the one who came up with the nonsensical comparison.  Just showing you how foolish it was.  

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

You’re the one who came up with the nonsensical comparison.  Just showing you how foolish it was.  

My suggestion, click the linked thread in my signature and read the posts from Philc1 in that thread. It will tell you precisely why he is here. To troll and dance. I typically try to ignore him, but just felt the stupid need to try and impart logic to his confused and simplified views. My fault.

[Ben Had]

26 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Houstons trade with Miami really through a monkey wrench into this draft for the Jets. I know you can't worry about other teams in your division during the draft but I think they might be a player for a QB. And if not, they're trading back with someone who wants a QB. 

Best case scenario? Joe Douglas & the new coach love Fields & Wilson, trade back with Atlanta, Falcons grab Sewell. Miami picks or trades, Jets get Wilson or Fields, plus even more draft capital. But, your taking a huge risk if Atlanta takes 1 of the QBs! 

Miami is in the best position in the draft...they are playing with house money.

[sec101row23]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

My suggestion, click the linked thread in my signature and read the posts from Philc1 in that thread. It will tell you precisely why he is here. To troll and dance. I typically try to ignore him, but just felt the stupid need to try and impart logic to his confused and simplified views. My fault.

It’s just funny that someone would compare Jones and Fields and say they are similar.  Beyond comical. 

[JustInFudge]

My favorite part of this process, is the demands all you expert scouts needs to see from Fields.  All the stuff that translates, yet, literally nobody in the college game is doing this, at all.  

[56mehl56]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

My favorite part of this process, is the demands all you expert scouts needs to see from Fields.  All the stuff that translates, yet, literally nobody in the college game is doing this, at all.  

It reminds me of the old Bugs Bunny / Yosemite Sam skit. Cross this line, now cross this line .........

[sec101row23]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

My favorite part of this process, is the demands all you expert scouts needs to see from Fields.  All the stuff that translates, yet, literally nobody in the college game is doing this, at all.  

Agreed, QBs should throw to receivers that are covered just to prove a point.  Throwing to the open receiver is only a negative with scouts here at JN.  

[JustInFudge]

44 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

They played for different coaches in different systems.  
 

I’m sorry guys.  Lawrence was the only qb in this draft

 

Cardarale Jones and Justin Fields - wait for it, wait for it - played for different coaches in different system. ///shock face

That's cool, another year of Sam will be exciting!!!

 

[Matt39]

7 minutes ago, JiF said:

My favorite part of this process, is the demands all you expert scouts needs to see from Fields.  All the stuff that translates, yet, literally nobody in the college game is doing this, at all.  

No one's an expert. Just using what I see and forming an opinion. He's taken 49 sacks in two years....his biggest knock is he holds the ball too long because he locks onto read 1. That is a flag to me. Maybe he shakes it, but typically if you dont trust what you see and you panic, that's bad in the NFL. Every single nice throw I've seen Fields make has been from a clean pocket.

[JustInFudge]

34 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Take a look at Haskins and Fields stats last year at OSU.  They are almost identical except fields is the better runner

Tajh Boyd had better stats and Deshaun Watson, stupid Texans.  That guy sucks!!!!

 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

No one's an expert. Just using what I see and forming an opinion. He's taken 49 sacks in two years....his biggest knock is he holds the ball too long because he locks onto read 1. That is a flag to me. Maybe he shakes it, but typically if you dont trust what you see and you panic, that's bad in the NFL. Every single nice throw I've seen Fields make has been from a clean pocket.

Yesterday you were saying he "faced no pressure". Today you are saying the number of sacks he has taken.

At least today, you are closer to the truth. He has held the ball too long at times, waiting for something to open, when he should cut his losses. That is being competitive, but stupid. You are correct that he needs to shake that.

But you keep moving the goal posts.

[Augustiniak]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

No one's an expert. Just using what I see and forming an opinion. He's taken 49 sacks in two years....his biggest knock is he holds the ball too long because he locks onto read 1. That is a flag to me. Maybe he shakes it, but typically if you dont trust what you see and you panic, that's bad in the NFL. Every single nice throw I've seen Fields make has been from a clean pocket.

i have read that he has to see people open rather than throwing people open.  my hunch is that zach wilson is better at this.  i still think he's the better prospect and he'll be the jets pick at 2 when it all shakes out.

[Matt39]

16 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Yesterday you were saying he "faced no pressure". Today you are saying the number of sacks he has taken.

At least today, you are closer to the truth. He has held the ball too long at times, waiting for something to open, when he should cut his losses. That is being competitive, but stupid. You are correct that he needs to shake that.

But you keep moving the goal posts.

If he faces pressure he takes a sack. 49 sacks is alarming.  Geno had this same issue at WV. Remember him at YS? That's what Fields looked like against Northwestern.

[Scott Dierking]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

If he faces pressure he takes a sack. 49 sacks is alarming.  Geno had this same issue at WV. Remember him at YS? That's what Fields looked like against Northwestern.

Matt, serious question, how many full games of Justin Fields have you watched? Yesterday you told me he faces no pressure. I then showed you the number of sacks he has taken over the last 2 years, to demonstrate that he has not had a clean pocket all the time. You have now twisted that to, "he takes an alarming number of sacks". 

Well, it is really not an "alarming stat. 21 games the last 2 years equates to 2.3 sacks per game. Nothing extraordinary there. As I said earlier, yes, he does hold the ball trying to wait sometimes when he should bail. Not necessarily an alarming trait.

 

[nycdan]

Fun fact.

In 2019, Wilson had 18 sacks in 8 games.

In 2019, Fields had 27 sacks in 12 games.

Exact same Sacks/Game average for both.

Except in that same year, Wilson had an 11/7 TD/INT ratio while Fields had a 40/1 TD/INT ratio.

So allowing for the fact that 2020 was a screwed up year, I would put a little more stock in the prior year than I might normally.  And for me, this is where the argument that Wilson is in Fields' class falls apart.

Discuss...

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Matt, serious question, how many full games of Justin Fields have you watched? Yesterday you told me he faces no pressure. I then showed you the number of sacks he has taken over the last 2 years, to demonstrate that he has not had a clean pocket all the time. You have now twisted that to, "he takes an alarming number of sacks". 

Well, it is really not an "alarming stat. 21 games the last 2 years equates to 2.3 sacks per game. Nothing extraordinary there. As I said earlier, yes, he does hold the ball trying to wait sometimes when he should bail. Not necessarily an alarming trait.

 

I’ve watched a few and have gone back and watched clips in my spare time. I watched the Notthwestern game and both Clemson games in full. I see what I see. Looking forward to the Bama game.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Matt39 said:

I’ve watched a few and have Gina back and watched clips in my spare time. I watched the Notthwestern game and both Clemson games in full. I see what I see.

Ok, I will just say that is not necessarily an adequate helping of Fields to give the most robust opinion. But you may be right, It is not a science. But you have moved the goalposts in the last 2 days, in which you come off a bit wishy-washy.

Give Gina my best.

[JustInFudge]

37 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

No one's an expert. Just using what I see and forming an opinion. He's taken 49 sacks in two years....his biggest knock is he holds the ball too long because he locks onto read 1. That is a flag to me. Maybe he shakes it, but typically if you dont trust what you see and you panic, that's bad in the NFL. Every single nice throw I've seen Fields make has been from a clean pocket.

The thing is you say things that arent accurate and you repeat them over and over again like they are true and you clearly have no interest in researching it yourself.  He has plenty of throws on film throwing into the face of pressure.   I've told you he goes through more reads then your average college QB.  But you just continue to chose not recognize them for some reason, not look into what I'm sharing and just blah blah blah the same sh*t over and over and over again.  

How do you face no pressure but take sacks?   Makes zero sense.  And fwiw, a designed run play for a QB that is ends in a tackle for loss, is considered a sack.  You dont watch Justin Fields and see him egregiously taking sacks.   Which again, is why I just dont think you've done any work on Justin Fields.   You saw something once and that was that, your mind was made up.  It 's cool, dont care but dont act like that's not the case.

 

[Matt39]

1 minute ago, JiF said:

The thing is you say things that arent accurate and you repeat them over and over again like they are true and you clearly have no interest in researching it yourself.  He has plenty of throws on film throwing into the face of pressure.   I've told you he goes through more reads then your average college QB.  But you just continue to chose not recognize them for some reason, not look into what I'm sharing and just blah blah blah the same sh*t over and over and over again.  

And fwiw, a designed run play for a QB that is ends in a tackle for loss, is considered a sack.  You dont watch Justin Fields and see him egregiously taking sacks.   Which again, is why I just dont think you've done any work on Justin Fields.   You saw something once that was that, your mind was made up.  It 's cool, dont care but dont act like that's not the case.

 

Which games should I go back and watch in your opinion?