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I am, frankly, bored of the QB discussion at this point. With the Jets transitioning to a 4-3, they need to add 1 (if not 2) edge rushers this offseason. Let's discuss. 

Joseph Ossai - Long armed edge that does a good job of using his length to keep blockers away. Not very twitchy, but he is a long strider so you don't see him explode out of his stance, but he does a

A true edge rusher has been missing on this team since forever.  It’s a massive need.  It will be interesting to see how the boards falls when the Seattle pick comes around.  I don’t see an Edge worth

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A true edge rusher has been missing on this team since forever.  It’s a massive need.  It will be interesting to see how the boards falls when the Seattle pick comes around.  I don’t see an Edge worthy of selecting very high, so I could see a run on some of these guys from 15-25.  I would love Patrick Jones with pick 34 in the 2nd though.  

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11 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

A true edge rusher has been missing on this team since forever.  It’s a massive need.  It will be interesting to see how the boards falls when the Seattle pick comes around.  I don’t see an Edge worthy of selecting very high, so I could see a run on some of these guys from 15-25.  I would love Patrick Jones with pick 34 in the 2nd though.  

I like the Miami ends.

I'm hoping either Philips lasts until 34 or they can trade down, add a second round pick, and take Rousseau at 23. 

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8 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

I like the Miami ends.

I'm hoping either Philips lasts until 34 or they can trade down, add a second round pick, and take Rousseau at 23. 

I haven't watched the videos thoroughly yet, but I think Phillips has the highest upside in the class (even more than Rousseau)

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I refuse to invest time in a position I know we will never get right. 15 years looking at Pass rush prospects, and zero success. 

the only thing I’m sure of is Patrick Jones will not be Jet. He’s been mocked to us by everyone with a computer. That pretty much takes care of that. 

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1 minute ago, Paradis said:

I refuse to invest time in a position I know we will never get right. 15 years looking at Pass rush prospects, and zero success. 

the only thing I’m sure of is Patrick Jones will not be Jet. He’s been mocked to us by everyone with a computer. That pretty much takes care of that. 

They havent really drafted that many. Gholston massive whiff...and who else? Bryan Thomas forever ago? The other edge's they drafted were in the later rounds and were obvious stiffs. The Jets have tried to build a team of secondary players and interior linemen....over and over again with the occasionally bust QB sprinkled in.

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7 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

They havent really drafted that many. Gholston massive whiff...and who else? Bryan Thomas forever ago? The other edge's they drafted were in the later rounds and were obvious stiffs. The Jets have tried to build a team of secondary players and interior linemen....over and over again with the occasionally bust QB sprinkled in.

We’ve never made a point of taking a premium pass rusher. Constantly picking DTs and jerks. 

polite and Mauldin were too weak attempts. Zuniga... largely surviving off hired muscle. 

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I always liked Shaun Ellis more than John Abraham. Then we switched to 3-4 and had dreams of all the amazing 3-4 OLB's in the league. However we have been stuck in Aaron Maybin scrub purgatory for like a decade now. 

What a freekin relief to finally go back to the 4-3. Love the 3-4 just not ours. All of that garbage talk of "Every defense is multiple front" is nothing but garbage that is just regurgitated twitter speak. You end up having these 3rd down pass rush specialist that really can't cover a RB and really can't stop the run. What sense does that make? A whole decade of Aaron Maybin's. 

This position is wayyy too important to go into the draft with two gaping holes and taking one at the 1.2 is obv not happening and who knows who is going to be there in the mid 20's. 

I see this position being filled with a Dunlap type when hes cut, and/or a trade and drafting a DE with a mid rounder similar to last year with Zuninga. We need two guys to produce like immediately. 

I know Clowney is overrated but Saleh was on the Texans with him. Ill be fine with Clowney and Dunlap in the 10-12m range while drafting another DE in the mid rounds to develop.

 

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On 1/27/2021 at 8:59 AM, sec101row23 said:

A true edge rusher has been missing on this team since forever.  It’s a massive need.  It will be interesting to see how the boards falls when the Seattle pick comes around.  I don’t see an Edge worthy of selecting very high, so I could see a run on some of these guys from 15-25.  I would love Patrick Jones with pick 34 in the 2nd though.  

Agreed on Jones.  There is a risk that someone just loves him and he goes before 34, but Im not sure its worth taking him at 23.   He also seems like a strong motor, high character guy that we want. 

I feel like JD also needs to strongly consider Chazz Sturatt with one of our 3rd round picks.  We have no WILL LB and need speed on this defense badly.

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On 1/27/2021 at 9:41 PM, Shockwave said:

I always liked Shaun Ellis more than John Abraham. Then we switched to 3-4 and had dreams of all the amazing 3-4 OLB's in the league. However we have been stuck in Aaron Maybin scrub purgatory for like a decade now. 

What a freekin relief to finally go back to the 4-3. Love the 3-4 just not ours. All of that garbage talk of "Every defense is multiple front" is nothing but garbage that is just regurgitated twitter speak. You end up having these 3rd down pass rush specialist that really can't cover a RB and really can't stop the run. What sense does that make? A whole decade of Aaron Maybin's. 

This position is wayyy too important to go into the draft with two gaping holes and taking one at the 1.2 is obv not happening and who knows who is going to be there in the mid 20's. 

I see this position being filled with a Dunlap type when hes cut, and/or a trade and drafting a DE with a mid rounder similar to last year with Zuninga. We need two guys to produce like immediately. 

I know Clowney is overrated but Saleh was on the Texans with him. Ill be fine with Clowney and Dunlap in the 10-12m range while drafting another DE in the mid rounds to develop.

 

Shaun Ellis does not get enough credit for the playoff win vs New England.  2 sacks and absolutely lived in the backfield and we only rushed 3/4 guys that game.  His ridiculous game allowed us to play so much coverage and slow brady.  Awesome all-time Jet.

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Kwity Paye - Paye is supposed to be a freak athlete. According to Bruce Feldman's freak list, Paye was the freakiest athlete in college football this year: https://www.maizenbrew.com/football/2020/7/22/21333546/kwity-paye-the-freakiest-player-in-college-footbal

"The Wolverines have a few special athletes on their defensive line (Aidan Hutchinson also possesses impressive agility for his size), but the 6-4, 271-pound Paye (50 tackles, 12.5 for loss, 6.5 sacks) has generated a lot of buzz among the NFL scouting community for some remarkable wheels. He clocked the second-best 3-cone time on the team at a blistering 6.37 seconds, which would have topped anyone at the 2020 combine. Paye’s 40 is also moving at 4.57, with a solid 34-inch vertical and 30 reps on the bench press. Paye’s 40 time and 4.15 pro shuttle time are better than any D-lineman or edge player who tested at the 2020 combine. His 11.3 time in the 60-yard shuttle is also elite. Paye, a former high school running back who reported to Ann Arbor at 228 pounds, was a member of a state championship 4×100 meter relay team in high school and also won a state title in the long jump, going 21 feet, 5 inches as a junior. He has a rare blend of strength, control and balance and his change of direction is probably even better than former Wolverine Freak Rashan Gary."

I expect Paye to have a good showing at his testing. He is a peculiar looking prospect on film as he is more squatty than your prototypical edge rusher and he appears to be a little short armed. Michigan played him all over the scheme, so he has some versatility. As a pass rusher he is very quick and shows some flexibility with his shoulder bend, but he doesn't really show a lot of counters if his initial move is stopped. Both in the run game and the pass game, once a blocker gets his hands on Paye, he struggles to disengage. Paye reminds me of Melvin Ingram, I think he's a good player, but I don't think he is going to be a consistent double digit sack artist in the NFL. 

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Joseph Ossai - Long armed edge that does a good job of using his length to keep blockers away. Not very twitchy, but he is a long strider so you don't see him explode out of his stance, but he does a good job of gaining ground on his second and third step. Has a better bull rush than his frame might suggest. Not as flexible as his frame suggests, his turns around the bend tend to be wide. I think he might be a Bryan Thomas type of prospect that tests well, looks the part, turns out to be a decent player, but never gives you the pass rush you would like to see. 

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Just now, maury77 said:

Joseph Ossai - Long armed edge that does a good job of using his length to keep blockers away. Not very twitchy, but he is a long strider so you don't see him explode out of his stance, but he does a good job of gaining ground on his second and third step. Has a better bull rush than his frame might suggest. Not as flexible as his frame suggests, his turns around the bend tend to be wide. I think he might be a Bryan Thomas type of prospect that tests well, looks the part, turns out to be a decent player, but never gives you the pass rush you would like to see. 

I was so high on Ossai but he was mediocre this season. He’s too small for our needs at Leo or 5-tech. In the right system he can excel.

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I love what I saw from Ojulari this season but I wonder if he's too small to play DE in the new scheme. He's only listed at 240, seems better situated to be a 3-4 edge OLB than a true 4-3.

Paye seems like a freak but I doubt he makes it to 23.

I have doubts about Rousseau who is a project with very little experience.

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Gregory Rousseau is an intriguing evaluation. One one hand, he put up monster sack numbers in 2019 after being a recent convert from WR. This would lead you to believe that he will really explode once he gets more experience under his belt (and he might). But a lot of his sacks were effort or coverage sacks rather than examples of him beating the tackle and getting to the QB quickly. He is a long strider that glides around the field, but he's not an explosive athlete. He wins with his length (constantly). He has a huge wingspan and he uses it well. He's able to consistently keep defenders off of him and discard them to disengage. He is stronger than his slender build will lead you to believe. He's got a decent bull rush, but he really struggles trying to beat the tackle on the outside. Rousseau is a much better pass rusher on the inside. I think he ultimately projects as an Arik Armstead type defender, which is not necessarily what the Jets need. 

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9 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Gregory Rousseau is an intriguing evaluation. One one hand, he put up monster sack numbers in 2019 after being a recent convert from WR. This would lead you to believe that he will really explode once he gets more experience under his belt (and he might). But a lot of his sacks were effort or coverage sacks rather than examples of him beating the tackle and getting to the QB quickly. He is a long strider that glides around the field, but he's not an explosive athlete. He wins with his length (constantly). He has a huge wingspan and he uses it well. He's able to consistently keep defenders off of him and discard them to disengage. He is stronger than his slender build will lead you to believe. He's got a decent bull rush, but he really struggles trying to beat the tackle on the outside. Rousseau is a much better pass rusher on the inside. I think he ultimately projects as an Arik Armstead type defender, which is not necessarily what the Jets need. 

I tend to agree. I love Rousseau but the Jets will be looking for someone who fits this new 4-3 system. It's clear the Jets need that LEO Edge rusher but I'm wondering if, with all the D-linemen the Jets have, Saleh thinks there is a guy that can fit the strong-side DE role. Rousseau seems to be more of a strong side DE in a 4-3 system. 

I think Patrick Jones can be more of a LEO Edge rusher. Kind of perfect for that role. 

Then there is the question of how the system will allow for Saleh and or JD to evaluate current players on the roster and prospects for the Sam and Will positions. Guys like Z.Collins and Ossai could be good prospects to fill the Sam role. But they are not really cover guys and I wonder if Saleh intends to use his Sam LBs to cover TEs or rely on safety help. 

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17 hours ago, PepPep said:

I tend to agree. I love Rousseau but the Jets will be looking for someone who fits this new 4-3 system. It's clear the Jets need that LEO Edge rusher but I'm wondering if, with all the D-linemen the Jets have, Saleh thinks there is a guy that can fit the strong-side DE role. Rousseau seems to be more of a strong side DE in a 4-3 system. 

I think Patrick Jones can be more of a LEO Edge rusher. Kind of perfect for that role. 

Then there is the question of how the system will allow for Saleh and or JD to evaluate current players on the roster and prospects for the Sam and Will positions. Guys like Z.Collins and Ossai could be good prospects to fill the Sam role. But they are not really cover guys and I wonder if Saleh intends to use his Sam LBs to cover TEs or rely on safety help. 

Honestly, I don’t like Rousseau at all. I think he’d be best gaining some weight and going to 3-tech.

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4 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Honestly, I don’t like Rousseau at all. I think he’d be best gaining some weight and going to 3-tech.

Really? I mean, theoretically, if he put on about 30lbs he would be an absolute monster DT but can you elaborate why you don't like him as a DE. I hate making comparisons BUT- he reminds me a lot of Clowney. And if he put on more weight he'd be more of a Calais Campbell type strong side DE. Either way, sign me up.  

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On 1/31/2021 at 9:34 AM, UntouchableCrew said:

I love what I saw from Ojulari this season but I wonder if he's too small to play DE in the new scheme. He's only listed at 240, seems better situated to be a 3-4 edge OLB than a true 4-3.

Paye seems like a freak but I doubt he makes it to 23.

I have doubts about Rousseau who is a project with very little experience.

Would have loved Ojulari had we stayed in a 3-4.  I do not see him as a 4-3 DE at all.  I really do not see him as an option for us now.

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18 hours ago, PepPep said:

I tend to agree. I love Rousseau but the Jets will be looking for someone who fits this new 4-3 system. It's clear the Jets need that LEO Edge rusher but I'm wondering if, with all the D-linemen the Jets have, Saleh thinks there is a guy that can fit the strong-side DE role. Rousseau seems to be more of a strong side DE in a 4-3 system. 

I think Patrick Jones can be more of a LEO Edge rusher. Kind of perfect for that role. 

Then there is the question of how the system will allow for Saleh and or JD to evaluate current players on the roster and prospects for the Sam and Will positions. Guys like Z.Collins and Ossai could be good prospects to fill the Sam role. But they are not really cover guys and I wonder if Saleh intends to use his Sam LBs to cover TEs or rely on safety help. 

I'm not as football nuanced as some of you - thinking of finding someone for the SF Bosa role in our new D - am I right to think that of the existing edge prospects the below are good fits? 

Kwity Paye

Patrick Jones

Jaelin Phillips 

Are there other guys that are ideal scheme fits? 

 

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16 minutes ago, PepPep said:

Really? I mean, theoretically, if he put on about 30lbs he would be an absolute monster DT but can you elaborate why you don't like him as a DE. I hate making comparisons BUT- he reminds me a lot of Clowney. And if he put on more weight he'd be more of a Calais Campbell type strong side DE. Either way, sign me up.  

He doesn’t corner well. Watching him play in space hurts me. He did pretty good work against guards in college but never really beat tackles outside.  I think he’ll test poorly compared to Clowney in explosion areas (broad jump, vertical jump, 10 yard splits). He doesn’t really have any bend. He has length and he has power. Let him bulk up to 285 in year one and settle at 290ish after a year or two. 

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3 hours ago, kdels62 said:

He doesn’t corner well. Watching him play in space hurts me. He did pretty good work against guards in college but never really beat tackles outside.  I think he’ll test poorly compared to Clowney in explosion areas (broad jump, vertical jump, 10 yard splits). He doesn’t really have any bend. He has length and he has power. Let him bulk up to 285 in year one and settle at 290ish after a year or two. 

I agree, but man that length is impressive, he looks like Connie Hawkins out there. 

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Jaelan Phillips - Former 5 star recruit and the #3 recruit in the nation coming out of HS according to ESPN (I think another agency had him at #1). Started at UCLA, played 2 seasons and retired due to concussions. Came back and transferred to UM this year. He has been an absolute beast this season and he was hard to miss if you watched. At 6'5" 265, he is perfectly built to play the LEO position in Saleh's defense. Good explosion and moves very well for a bigger guy showing plus agility. You see him beat tackles both to the inside and outside. Has a nice bend around the corner for a taller guy and routinely swipes away the hands of the tackle. Strong guy that shows a nice speed to power conversion. Exuberant, high energy player that makes plays all over the field. On the downside, he lacks experience and it shows in his game. He has technique issues that cause him to lose contain too often (see the Miami v. UNC game). He also uses his spin move at odd times and often puts himself in a worse position as a result. Also, injuries did cause him to retire once already, so that has to be a big concern as well. Bottom line, if he had not retired for that 1 season, I think you would see a prospect with less injury concerns, a more refined game and a likely top 10 (if not top 5) pick. There is some risk here, but I'd be ecstatic if the Jets chose him with Seattle's pick. 

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12 minutes ago, maury77 said:

Jaelan Phillips - Former 5 star recruit and the #3 recruit in the nation coming out of HS according to ESPN (I think another agency had him at #1). Started at UCLA, played 2 seasons and retired due to concussions. Came back and transferred to UM this year. He has been an absolute beast this season and he was hard to miss if you watched. At 6'5" 265, he is perfectly built to play the LEO position in Saleh's defense. Good explosion and moves very well for a bigger guy showing plus agility. You see him beat tackles both to the inside and outside. Has a nice bend around the corner for a taller guy and routinely swipes away the hands of the tackle. Strong guy that shows a nice speed to power conversion. Exuberant, high energy player that makes plays all over the field. On the downside, he lacks experience and it shows in his game. He has technique issues that cause him to lose contain too often (see the Miami v. UNC game). He also uses his spin move at odd times and often puts himself in a worse position as a result. Also, injuries did cause him to retire once already, so that has to be a big concern as well. Bottom line, if he had not retired for that 1 season, I think you would see a prospect with less injury concerns, a more refined game and a likely top 10 (if not top 5) pick. There is some risk here, but I'd be ecstatic if the Jets chose him with Seattle's pick. 

Hmmm. He’s one of a growing list of guys I really want. His injury history is so problematic but if he stays healthy he’s exactly what we need. 

Dude’s body type reminds me of Jason Taylor. A lot of torso but it doesn’t cost him any movement.

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14 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Hmmm. He’s one of a growing list of guys I really want. His injury history is so problematic but if he stays healthy he’s exactly what we need. 

Dude’s body type reminds me of Jason Taylor. A lot of torso but it doesn’t cost him any movement.

Agreed 100%

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2 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Edge rusher is the area where I worry most about not having standardized combine numbers. It's by far the position that is the most projectable based off them. 

Agreed. It.is also one of the easier positions to scout without the all 22 film

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On 1/30/2021 at 9:27 AM, maury77 said:

The issue with grading this position now is that athletic testing seems to be very important for this position. 

By far the position it matters the most IMO.

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On 1/30/2021 at 9:38 AM, maury77 said:

Kwity Paye - Paye is supposed to be a freak athlete. According to Bruce Feldman's freak list, Paye was the freakiest athlete in college football this year: https://www.maizenbrew.com/football/2020/7/22/21333546/kwity-paye-the-freakiest-player-in-college-footbal

"The Wolverines have a few special athletes on their defensive line (Aidan Hutchinson also possesses impressive agility for his size), but the 6-4, 271-pound Paye (50 tackles, 12.5 for loss, 6.5 sacks) has generated a lot of buzz among the NFL scouting community for some remarkable wheels. He clocked the second-best 3-cone time on the team at a blistering 6.37 seconds, which would have topped anyone at the 2020 combine. Paye’s 40 is also moving at 4.57, with a solid 34-inch vertical and 30 reps on the bench press. Paye’s 40 time and 4.15 pro shuttle time are better than any D-lineman or edge player who tested at the 2020 combine. His 11.3 time in the 60-yard shuttle is also elite. Paye, a former high school running back who reported to Ann Arbor at 228 pounds, was a member of a state championship 4×100 meter relay team in high school and also won a state title in the long jump, going 21 feet, 5 inches as a junior. He has a rare blend of strength, control and balance and his change of direction is probably even better than former Wolverine Freak Rashan Gary."

I expect Paye to have a good showing at his testing. He is a peculiar looking prospect on film as he is more squatty than your prototypical edge rusher and he appears to be a little short armed. Michigan played him all over the scheme, so he has some versatility. As a pass rusher he is very quick and shows some flexibility with his shoulder bend, but he doesn't really show a lot of counters if his initial move is stopped. Both in the run game and the pass game, once a blocker gets his hands on Paye, he struggles to disengage. Paye reminds me of Melvin Ingram, I think he's a good player, but I don't think he is going to be a consistent double digit sack artist in the NFL. 

Interesting...I take he's not going to fall to #23 then...didnt realize he'd test at freak level. 

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On 1/31/2021 at 10:34 AM, UntouchableCrew said:

I love what I saw from Ojulari this season but I wonder if he's too small to play DE in the new scheme. He's only listed at 240, seems better situated to be a 3-4 edge OLB than a true 4-3.

Paye seems like a freak but I doubt he makes it to 23.

I have doubts about Rousseau who is a project with very little experience.

 

23 hours ago, Lith said:

Would have loved Ojulari had we stayed in a 3-4.  I do not see him as a 4-3 DE at all.  I really do not see him as an option for us now.

Idk - Robert Mathis and Freeney were smaller dudes in the 4-3.  It's weird as Jets fans to think about but pass rush is often most effective protecting a lead, pin the ears back and go.

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On 1/30/2021 at 4:38 AM, maury77 said:

Kwity Paye - Paye is supposed to be a freak athlete. According to Bruce Feldman's freak list, Paye was the freakiest athlete in college football this year: https://www.maizenbrew.com/football/2020/7/22/21333546/kwity-paye-the-freakiest-player-in-college-footbal

"The Wolverines have a few special athletes on their defensive line (Aidan Hutchinson also possesses impressive agility for his size), but the 6-4, 271-pound Paye (50 tackles, 12.5 for loss, 6.5 sacks) has generated a lot of buzz among the NFL scouting community for some remarkable wheels. He clocked the second-best 3-cone time on the team at a blistering 6.37 seconds, which would have topped anyone at the 2020 combine. Paye’s 40 is also moving at 4.57, with a solid 34-inch vertical and 30 reps on the bench press. Paye’s 40 time and 4.15 pro shuttle time are better than any D-lineman or edge player who tested at the 2020 combine. His 11.3 time in the 60-yard shuttle is also elite. Paye, a former high school running back who reported to Ann Arbor at 228 pounds, was a member of a state championship 4×100 meter relay team in high school and also won a state title in the long jump, going 21 feet, 5 inches as a junior. He has a rare blend of strength, control and balance and his change of direction is probably even better than former Wolverine Freak Rashan Gary."

I expect Paye to have a good showing at his testing. He is a peculiar looking prospect on film as he is more squatty than your prototypical edge rusher and he appears to be a little short armed. Michigan played him all over the scheme, so he has some versatility. As a pass rusher he is very quick and shows some flexibility with his shoulder bend, but he doesn't really show a lot of counters if his initial move is stopped. Both in the run game and the pass game, once a blocker gets his hands on Paye, he struggles to disengage. Paye reminds me of Melvin Ingram, I think he's a good player, but I don't think he is going to be a consistent double digit sack artist in the NFL. 

A few more edge rushers from that list:

EDGE JAYSON OWEH, PENN STATE

We saw Oweh serve as a backup in 2019, but it was quite apparent that his athleticism was ridiculous enough to expose any middling tackle. He’s cracked Feldman’s list in each of the past two years, and his burst, in particular, is truly the best of any pass-rusher in college football. According to Feldman, Oweh has been clocked at a 40-time of 4.33 seconds.

Humans his size (6-foot-5, 247 pounds) aren’t supposed to move like that. Oweh rushed the passer 207 times in 2019, recorded 31 pressures, forced two fumbles and won on over 20% of his reps. He’s a breakout waiting to happen and will have no issue taking over for Yetur Gross-Matos in 2020.

EDGE CARLOS BASHAM JR., WAKE FOREST

If you asked me to guess which freak attribute Feldman noted from Basham, I would have had a tough time picking only one — he’s freaky across the board. And Feldman agrees, as his attribute was literally “Pick one.” His physical tools and explosiveness are eye-popping. The 6-foot-5, 275-pound Basham earned a 90.6 pass-rush grade in 2019 and had multiple games with double-digit pressures in ACC play. He’s a pocket-collapser in its purest form.

EDGE BOYE MAFE, MINNESOTA

Mafe’s first step should give offensive linemen nightmares. His freakish trait was his vertical leap, according to Feldman, as his vertical was an astonishing 40.5 inches — which very much shows up on the field. He’s rushed the passer just 207 times in his career and, similar to Oweh, looks very much like a breakout waiting to happen with an increased role (which he’ll have in 2020). On those reps in his career, he’s generated a 19.3% win rate and an 82.9 pass-rush grade. Mafe can really win from anywhere on the line and is a name to watch when the college football season gets underway.

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2 hours ago, JiF said:

 

Idk - Robert Mathis and Freeney were smaller dudes in the 4-3.  It's weird as Jets fans to think about but pass rush is often most effective protecting a lead, pin the ears back and go.

I thought they were closer to 260. I'm not saying I'd be against it (and I really like the idea of putting a legit speed rusher outside of QW) but it's something to think about. 

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