A Little Common Sense Please!

[MichaelScott]

Love when people come to a Jets message board - a collection of the most beaten down, miserable and forever pessimistic sports fans to walk the earth - and ramble on with instructions to keep the positivity down ??

Relax, OP. Pretty sure no one on this board is ordering their tickets to the next super bowl 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

Love when people come to a Jets message board - a collection of the most beaten down, miserable and forever pessimistic sports fans to walk the earth - and ramble on with instructions to keep the positivity down ??

Relax, OP. Pretty sure no one on this board is ordering their tickets to the next super bowl 

You must be new here.

[slats]

8 hours ago, SAR I said:

Certainly.

But none will be as good at the playoff Browns and the playoff Rams who we beat in back-to-back weeks last season with a worse team and the worst head coach in NFL history.

If Robert Saleh can't beat Jacksonville, Cincinnati, Denver, Atlanta, Carolina, Houston, Philadelphia, and either the Saints or one of the divisional games, what the hell did we hire him for?

SAR I 

I, too, prefer to dismiss Gase's 14 losses and focus simply on his two wins last year as the true measure of his coaching abilities. 

8 hours ago, SAR I said:

Then we should have kept the old coaching staff.  Because if we've got another 1-2 years of sucking and rebuilding, the burnout on Saleh, LaFleur, and Ulbrich will run them right out of town (or, in Jets fashion, the fans will run them out of town).

A smart franchise flips the coaching staff when it feels its ready to take the next step.  Not when its in the middle of the muck.

SAR I

You keep outdoing yourself with these worst takes ever. 

No franchise waits to be ready to turn a corner when they hire a new coach, unless that coach brought them to that corner in the first place and demonstrated that he was at a dead end. Gase turned a corner and dragged the team into the gutter. Second worst record in team history. Yeah, let's give that one more go! 

Don't worry about him, though, he's living the dream collecting his full salary for another couple years. He'll be fine. 

[SAR I]

5 hours ago, slats said:

No franchise waits to be ready to turn a corner when they hire a new coach, unless that coach brought them to that corner in the first place and demonstrated that he was at a dead end. Gase turned a corner and dragged the team into the gutter. Second worst record in team history. Yeah, let's give that one more go! 

Edwards, Herman
Mangini, Eric
Ryan, Rex
Bowles, Todd

Four times in recent Jets history a new head coach was hired who immediately and amazingly got us into the playoffs or shockingly amassed 10 wins.

None of those 4 had the head start on a rebuild the way Joe Douglas did and none of those 4 had a shiny new can't-miss rocket-armed QB either.  Robert Saleh has no excuse for a benchmark as low as 8 measly wins against this cupcake schedule and a 9th home game.

5 hours ago, slats said:

You keep outdoing yourself with these worst takes ever. 

Not this time.  You get that crown.

SAR I

[slats]

2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Edwards, Herman
Mangini, Eric
Ryan, Rex
Bowles, Todd

Four times in recent Jets history a new head coach was hired who immediately and amazingly got us into the playoffs or shockingly amassed 10 wins.

None of those 4 had the head start on a rebuild the way Joe Douglas did and none of those 4 had a shiny new can't-miss rocket-armed QB either.  Robert Saleh has no excuse for a benchmark as low as 8 measly wins against this cupcake schedule and a 9th home game.

Not this time.  You get that crown.

SAR I

Herm took over a team that hadn’t been under .500 in the previous four years. 
 
Mangini took over a team that was 10-6 two years prior. 
 
Rex took over a team that was 9-7 the year before. 
  
Bowles? Obviously smoke and mirrors. 10-6 his first year, 5, 5, and 4 wins the next three. No one wants a repeat of that. 
 
Robert Saleh is taking over a 2-14 team that hasn’t had a winning season in five years, or been to the playoffs in 10. 
 
Yeah, identical situations, all. 
 
 

[SAR I]

11 minutes ago, slats said:

Herm took over a team that hadn’t been under .500 in the previous four years. 
 
Mangini took over a team that was 10-6 two years prior. 
 
Rex took over a team that was 9-7 the year before. 
  
Bowles? Obviously smoke and mirrors. 10-6 his first year, 5, 5, and 4 wins the next three. No one wants a repeat of that. 
 
Robert Saleh is taking over a 2-14 team that hasn’t had a winning season in five years, or been to the playoffs in 10. 
 
Yeah, identical situations, all. 

The worst head coach in team history won 7 games with the worst roster in team history decimated by injury, and an easy schedule.

How can Robert Saleh not win 8 games with a better roster, an easy schedule, nowhere near the injuries, and a 9th home game? 

How many wins are you thinking?  5?  6?  How much worse than Gase can Saleh possibly be?  Or are you thinking Wilson is going to miss a month and 13 other starters are going to go on IR again?

SAR I

[JohnnyLV]

On 5/14/2021 at 5:45 PM, addage said:

A Little Common Sense Please!

The Board is filled with topics and comments that are euphoric about the drafting of Zach Wilson and the Jets recent draft.  Trust me.  No one wants Wilson to succeed more than I do.  I watched Titans games in high school.  I always tell people that I was raised a Catholic.  Thus, we were put on this earth to suffer—and that’s why I am a Jets fan.

I am a huge fan of JD and think he has been brilliant in his handling the Jets since his ascension to the “CEO” of football operations.

BUT—We have a rookie HC, a rookie OC, a rookie DC and a rookie QB.  The OLine is a work in progress.  JD has added talent, but you can’t buy or draft cohesion.  It’s going to take time.  A lot of talent has been added to the skill positions.  But we are a year or more from having an established star in any of these slots.

Our D has some very fine players.  But we have a lot of holes/unknowns at LB and DB.  Is Mosley a real player or not?  Who knows?

And then there’s Zach.  He has a bunch of outstanding attributes.  He moves well, has a quick release, he’s charismatic.  And more.  But virtually all of the QB’s drafted in the early rounds over the last few years also had outstanding attributes—and still failed/disappointed.

Can Zach avoid injury—don’t know.  Can Zach read defenses at an NFL level—don’t know.  Can Zach work through the progression of WR options at a pro level—don’t know.  Will Zach be a top tier NFL QB—don’t know but I sure hope so.

Las Vegas has us at 6 wins and that seems about right.  My guess is we lose 5 of 6 in the division.  Maybe we get a split with NE.  Then, we play Denver, Tennessee, Indianapolis, New Orleans and Tampa Bay.  Maybe we win 1 of those.  That leaves Carolina, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Houston, Philadelphia and Jacksonville.  If we split those, that gives a 5 win season.

None of this is to throw dirt on the Wilson, Douglas or the Jets.  But it does suggest that we should be looking to 2022 for the first real sense that we are emerging as a force in the NFL.  If we have a 5-6 win season, the value of our draft capital increases in one of the more talent laden years.  All that is good.

Shrinks always link mania with depression and they are right.  Skip the euphoria, avoid the depression.

This is negativity not common sense. Actually, most rookie head coaches do well their first year in good part because they are hard to gameplan against and learn their tendencies. This will like triply true for the Jets. The success of other QBs has exactly zero to do with whether Zach will do well.

To be honest this just comes off as just another whiney "I like Fields better" posts.

"

[addage]

2 hours ago, johnnysd said:

This is negativity not common sense. Actually, most rookie head coaches do well their first year in good part because they are hard to gameplan against and learn their tendencies. This will like triply true for the Jets. The success of other QBs has exactly zero to do with whether Zach will do well.

To be honest this just comes off as just another whiney "I like Fields better" posts.

"

No. Zack is our best option after Trevor

Sorry if it came across as whining. Just don’t see how the Jets get to 7-8 wins this year.

But 2022 is definitely a potential playoff year if JD, Saleh and Zack are as billed. I’m pretty confident about the first two. Hopeful about Zack. 
 

[JohnnyLV]

2 hours ago, addage said:

No. Zack is our best option after Trevor

Sorry if it came across as whining. Just don’t see how the Jets get to 7-8 wins this year.

But 2022 is definitely a potential playoff year if JD, Saleh and Zack are as billed. I’m pretty confident about the first two. Hopeful about Zack. 
 

Fair enough. I think that last years team and results have no relation at all to our current team. It is completely different and significantly upgraded especially on offense. As an example, people look to last year and think we are really lacking at corner. But we are actually lacking at man corner but pretty decent at zone and we will play almost entirely zone this year. The defense is 100% opposite of what we had last year. Our offense could have as many as 7 new starters all significant upgrades. I am actually struggling to see how we don't win at least 9 this year. Our schedule is very favorable and Zach will be good from Day 1 in this offense with these weapons.

[LIJetsFan]

On 5/15/2021 at 6:54 AM, More Cowbell said:

There are legitimately people here that expect the Jets to be world beaters right out of the gate. Oh, we have Moore, he is going to get other guys open just by stepping on the field. 

Really, someone wrote that after he was drafted. 

Yeah, let's beat the crap out of that guy  

[Maynard13]

On 5/14/2021 at 8:45 PM, addage said:

A Little Common Sense Please!

The Board is filled with topics and comments that are euphoric about the drafting of Zach Wilson and the Jets recent draft.  Trust me.  No one wants Wilson to succeed more than I do.  I watched Titans games in high school.  I always tell people that I was raised a Catholic.  Thus, we were put on this earth to suffer—and that’s why I am a Jets fan.

I am a huge fan of JD and think he has been brilliant in his handling the Jets since his ascension to the “CEO” of football operations.

BUT—We have a rookie HC, a rookie OC, a rookie DC and a rookie QB.  The OLine is a work in progress.  JD has added talent, but you can’t buy or draft cohesion.  It’s going to take time.  A lot of talent has been added to the skill positions.  But we are a year or more from having an established star in any of these slots.

Our D has some very fine players.  But we have a lot of holes/unknowns at LB and DB.  Is Mosley a real player or not?  Who knows?

And then there’s Zach.  He has a bunch of outstanding attributes.  He moves well, has a quick release, he’s charismatic.  And more.  But virtually all of the QB’s drafted in the early rounds over the last few years also had outstanding attributes—and still failed/disappointed.

Can Zach avoid injury—don’t know.  Can Zach read defenses at an NFL level—don’t know.  Can Zach work through the progression of WR options at a pro level—don’t know.  Will Zach be a top tier NFL QB—don’t know but I sure hope so.

Las Vegas has us at 6 wins and that seems about right.  My guess is we lose 5 of 6 in the division.  Maybe we get a split with NE.  Then, we play Denver, Tennessee, Indianapolis, New Orleans and Tampa Bay.  Maybe we win 1 of those.  That leaves Carolina, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Houston, Philadelphia and Jacksonville.  If we split those, that gives a 5 win season.

None of this is to throw dirt on the Wilson, Douglas or the Jets.  But it does suggest that we should be looking to 2022 for the first real sense that we are emerging as a force in the NFL.  If we have a 5-6 win season, the value of our draft capital increases in one of the more talent laden years.  All that is good.

Shrinks always link mania with depression and they are right.  Skip the euphoria, avoid the depression.

Will the OP ever be allowed to start a topic again-don’t know! 

[Maynard13]

13 hours ago, SAR I said:

The worst head coach in team history won 7 games with the worst roster in team history decimated by injury, and an easy schedule.

How can Robert Saleh not win 8 games with a better roster, an easy schedule, nowhere near the injuries, and a 9th home game? 

How many wins are you thinking?  5?  6?  How much worse than Gase can Saleh possibly be?  Or are you thinking Wilson is going to miss a month and 13 other starters are going to go on IR again?

SAR I

We will definitely be better next year. How could we possibly be any worse. In fact, we should have been 5-11 last year. We had the Raiders, Pats and Broncos games in hand and totally gave those games away. Just goes to show how many teams are not all they’re made out to be.  I look for us to have a similar year to the Chargers season last year but with a bit more success.  Good offense, high scoring games, lapses in defense that will cost us close games. I say 6-8 wins with some promising talent rising across the roster. 

[DetroitRed]

6 minutes ago, Maynard13 said:

We will definitely be better next year. How could we possibly be any worse. In fact, we should have been 5-11 last year. We had the Raiders, Pats and Broncos games in hand and totally gave those games away. Just goes to show how many teams are not all they’re made out to be.  I look for us to have a similar year to the Chargers season last year but with a bit more success.  Good offense, high scoring games, lapses in defense that will cost us close games. I say 6-8 wins with some promising talent rising across the roster. 

I think the defense will be better than the offense. We will see

[Maynard13]

3 minutes ago, DetroitRed said:

I think the defense will be better than the offense. We will see

The offense was definitely targeted more by JD this past year. Wilson, AVT, Carter, Davis, Cole. That’s 5 new starters right there that will a huge impact. Now it’s time for Lafleur to work his magic. 

[Dunnie]

The offense was definitely targeted more by JD this past year. Wilson, AVT, Carter, Davis, Cole. That’s 5 new starters right there that will a huge impact. Now it’s time for Lafleur to work his magic. 

Let keep ourselves in check though ... all rooks ... and WR typically do blossom till year 2-3

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[addage]

On 5/16/2021 at 1:37 PM, SAR I said:

The worst head coach in team history won 7 games with the worst roster in team history decimated by injury, and an easy schedule.

How can Robert Saleh not win 8 games with a better roster, an easy schedule, nowhere near the injuries, and a 9th home game? 

How many wins are you thinking?  5?  6?  How much worse than Gase can Saleh possibly be?  Or are you thinking Wilson is going to miss a month and 13 other starters are going to go on IR again?

SAR I

The 1998 Colts, with rookie QB Peyton Manning--and with Marvin Harrison and Marshall Faulk playing, went 3-13.  Manning threw 28 interceptions.

[jgb]

On 5/16/2021 at 10:37 PM, SAR I said:

The worst head coach in team history won 7 games with the worst roster in team history decimated by injury, and an easy schedule.

How can Robert Saleh not win 8 games with a better roster, an easy schedule, nowhere near the injuries, and a 9th home game? 

How many wins are you thinking?  5?  6?  How much worse than Gase can Saleh possibly be?  Or are you thinking Wilson is going to miss a month and 13 other starters are going to go on IR again?

SAR I

It just doesn't work that way. Other teams are different, too. And we have no idea who or what Wilson is, yet. Any year when a rookie QB starts is extremely difficult to predict wins and losses. Too many unknowns about the most important person on the field.

[slats]

54 minutes ago, addage said:

The 1998 Colts, with rookie QB Peyton Manning--and with Marvin Harrison and Marshall Faulk playing, went 3-13.  Manning threw 28 interceptions.

And @SAR I would like to pretend it’s not true, but 3-13 would be an improvement over Gase’s last year here. 

[Dunnie]

Failure 2-15
Severe Disappointment 5-12
Disappointment 7-10
Expected 8-9
Overachieved 10-7
Nirvana 15-2

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, slats said:

And @SAR I would like to pretend it’s not true, but 3-13 would be an improvement over Gase’s last year here. 

Hmm.

So we got 2 actual wins.  And there were 3 games where the idiot DC blew leads in the last minute.  So that's 5 games we had in the bag at the 59:00 mark.  Under the worst HC in the NFL and the worst DC in the NFL with the worst QB in the NFL.

And you think winning 3 games is "progress" in 2021.  And that's with a 9th home game.  And that's with a far easier schedule.  And that's with 2 full free agent periods and 2 full drafts under Joe Douglas.  And that's with a very highly rated coaching staff.

Amazing.

SAR I

[Joe W. Namath]

This team is getting 7-8 wins so this is going to be a moot point.

This team is being built slowly through the draft.  This team will be like the steelers, ravens, pats etc.  We are going to be in it every year in the very near future.

Wins and losses in the 2021 season really dont mean much because starting in 2022, this is a perennial playoff/super bowl contending team.

[jgb]

On 5/16/2021 at 10:10 AM, MichaelScott said:

Love when people come to a Jets message board - a collection of the most beaten down, miserable and forever pessimistic sports fans to walk the earth - and ramble on with instructions to keep the positivity down ??

Relax, OP. Pretty sure no one on this board is ordering their tickets to the next super bowl 

Like when posters come on here accusing Jets fans of being impatient and focused on "instant gratification."

My best Jets memory is listening to my dad talk about Joe Namath. Instant gratification? More like never gratification.

I know mountains with less patience than Jets fans.

[slats]

29 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Hmm.

So we got 2 actual wins.  And there were 3 games where the idiot DC blew leads in the last minute.  So that's 5 games we had in the bag at the 59:00 mark.  Under the worst HC in the NFL and the worst DC in the NFL with the worst QB in the NFL.

And you think winning 3 games is "progress" in 2021.  And that's with a 9th home game.  And that's with a far easier schedule.  And that's with 2 full free agent periods and 2 full drafts under Joe Douglas.  And that's with a very highly rated coaching staff.

Amazing.

SAR I

I called it an improvement, not progress. And three wins is improvement over two, no matter what irrational mental gymnastics you try to contort yourself into. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I called it an improvement, not progress. And three wins is improvement over two, no matter what irrational mental gymnastics you try to contort yourself into. 

SAR has put some of those losses into his mental win column. He freely admits that he truly believes the Jets beat the Bills week 1, 2019.

[addage]

1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

This team is getting 7-8 wins so this is going to be a moot point.

This team is being built slowly through the draft.  This team will be like the steelers, ravens, pats etc.  We are going to be in it every year in the very near future.

Wins and losses in the 2021 season really dont mean much because starting in 2022, this is a perennial playoff/super bowl contending team.

I don't disagree with that.  Just think you are a year early.  The jump from 3 to 7 wins is a lot harder than the jump from 7 to 11 wins.  With the way JD is building the team with younger players from the bottom up, the roster will keep improving as the young players transition from rookies to 2-4 year vets.

[Dunnie]

This team should win 7-8 games this year ... below that is troubling.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[slats]

52 minutes ago, addage said:

I don't disagree with that.  Just think you are a year early.  The jump from 3 to 7 wins is a lot harder than the jump from 7 to 11 wins.  With the way JD is building the team with younger players from the bottom up, the roster will keep improving as the young players transition from rookies to 2-4 year vets.

I’d disagree pretty firmly with the bold. Going from bad to mediocre is easy. Making the jump from mediocre to good, harder, and from good to great the most difficult of all. I’d just like to feel like the team is on that trajectory this season, even if it is only the early stages. 

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

I’d disagree pretty firmly with the bold. Going from bad to mediocre is easy. Making the jump from mediocre to good, harder, and from good to great the most difficult of all. I’d just like to feel like the team is on that trajectory this season, even if it is only the early stages. 

Ah.  The Parcells special.  Take a sh*tty team, make them solid and then run off without winning anything, chase the next dollar sign and enjoy all your accolades you filthy fat ******* carpetbagger.

[addage]

40 minutes ago, slats said:

I’d disagree pretty firmly with the bold. Going from bad to mediocre is easy. Making the jump from mediocre to good, harder, and from good to great the most difficult of all. I’d just like to feel like the team is on that trajectory this season, even if it is only the early stages. 

When you have a decent/ok roster and a terrible coaching staff, a new coach can make an amazing leap forward.  Gase to Saleh meets that condition.  I think those thinking in terms of 7-9 wins in 2021 are hoping that's the case.

But the Jets were also a team with a terrible roster.  Idzik and Mac had no gift for drafting.  And Mac wasted a ton of salary cap $ bringing in "star" FA's who produced zip.

And even though JD is in his second draft, his first draft was based on Mac's scouting department.  He had no time to implement his own team and practices.  So this year will be a better indication of his drafting capabilities.

Finally, JD traded Leonard Williams and Adams for draft capital.  Right decisions, but it depletes the roster first, builds it later (assuming good drafting).  You are losing veteran experience that needs motivation--adding players who need coaching to develop.

Not all 3 win teams are equal.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Failure 2-15
Severe Disappointment 5-12
Disappointment 7-10
Expected 8-9
Overachieved 10-7
Nirvana 15-2

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk




 

subtract about 2 wins from each category and that sums me up.

[slats]

13 minutes ago, addage said:

When you have a decent/ok roster and a terrible coaching staff, a new coach can make an amazing leap forward.  Gase to Saleh meets that condition.  I think those thinking in terms of 7-9 wins in 2021 are hoping that's the case.

But the Jets were also a team with a terrible roster.  Idzik and Mac had no gift for drafting.  And Mac wasted a ton of salary cap $ bringing in "star" FA's who produced zip.

And even though JD is in his second draft, his first draft was based on Mac's scouting department.  He had no time to implement his own team and practices.  So this year will be a better indication of his drafting capabilities.

Finally, JD traded Leonard Williams and Adams for draft capital.  Right decisions, but it depletes the roster first, builds it later (assuming good drafting).  You are losing veteran experience that needs motivation--adding players who need coaching to develop.

Not all 3 win teams are equal.

Joe Douglas was hired ten months before his first draft. He kept a lot of those scouts on, but he implemented his own scouting scoring system for them to employ for that draft. The difference is that he was drafting for Gase his first year, but the hope would be that those players still fit what they’re doing now. 
 
They’ve now cashed in Leo’s return and half of Jamal’s. So last year they traded a pro bowler away for not much, but this year that netted them AVT. So that was more a reason to be bad last year, not this one coming. 
 
My feeling is that Vegas is pretty much on the money with their 6.5 win line, and that anywhere from 5-8 wins is what I expect. 

[addage]

38 minutes ago, slats said:

Joe Douglas was hired ten months before his first draft. He kept a lot of those scouts on, but he implemented his own scouting scoring system for them to employ for that draft. The difference is that he was drafting for Gase his first year, but the hope would be that those players still fit what they’re doing now. 
 
They’ve now cashed in Leo’s return and half of Jamal’s. So last year they traded a pro bowler away for not much, but this year that netted them AVT. So that was more a reason to be bad last year, not this one coming. 
 
My feeling is that Vegas is pretty much on the money with their 6.5 win line, and that anywhere from 5-8 wins is what I expect. 

Always good to know we agree