Our only chance to be good

[Biggs]

58 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

You know what this coaching staff will be in 2022 and 2023? An experienced coaching staff. 

Kliff Kingsbury - 5-10-1 in first season with rookie QB. Do you think that he should have been canned?

Bill Parcells - 3-12-1 

Bill Belichick - 6-10

Andy Reid - 5-11

Bill Walsh - 2-14

Jimmy Johnson - 1-15

Tom Coughlin - 4-12

Chuck Knoll - 1-13

Tony Dungy - 6-10

Tom Landry - 0-11-1

Marv Leavy - 4-12

Dick Vermeil - 4-10

Looks like the greatest coaches of all time may have been inexperienced in their first year, like every first year head coach in the existence of sports.

 

 

Ray "Scooter" McClaen

Hugh Jackson

Mike Nolan

Mike Singletary

Tom Cable

Greg Williams 

Rod Rust

Steve Spagnuola

Frank Gasz

Romeo Crennel

Rod Dowhower

Frank Kush

Joe Bugel

Rich Brooks

Darryl Rogers

Richie Petitbon

Bruce Coslett

Walt Kiesling

Raheem Morris

Marion Campbell

Dennis Erickson

Chris Palmer

Dave Campo

Ray Handley

Steve Spurrier

Les Steckle

Bill Peterson

Marty Mornhinweg

Lane Kiffin

Bobby Petrino

Dave Shula

Rich Kotite

Rod Marinelli

I could go on but lets compare Saleh to Kingsbury.  Take a look at Murray's first year vs. Zach to date.  Take a look at the Cardinals O vs the NY Jets O to date.  FYI when they hired Kingsbury the GM picked his DC who was both a former DC and HC.  Not a good HC but at least he put someone with experience on the other side of the ball.   Murray was put in a position to succeed from day 1 and he did.  Not to say Kingsbury is a good HC.  Just miles better than Saleh at his biggest job in year 1.  Developing the QB.  

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

12 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Steve Spurrier

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

15 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Ray Handley

8-8 as a rookie head coach. You are not good at this.

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

17 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Rich Kotite

10-6 as a rookie head coach. Man, you failed bigly on this assignment.

[Hael]

If ZW busts... This team doesnt sniff the playoffs for the next five years minimum.   Unless you bring in an aging A Rogers level qb theres nothing in the NFL that drags this team out of the gutter.  You simply don't get far without good qb play in this league and we would literally have to replace 80% of our roster and mortgage all of our future capspace to be elite enough to win with some random Josh McCown lvl qb.  It's just unlikely to happen.

If ZW turns out to be elite.  We still are FAR from being able to complete the team with high priced FAs or be guaranteed success.  We need foundational draft pieces to build around.  We need the Bectons of the world to actually not bust as well.  We need QW to not bust.  We need our CBs to continue to improve.  We need a DE1, a WR1, a CB1, an entirely new LB corps, safeties, interior OL, and an entirely new TE corps nevermind the necessary depth.  Thats what, like 12 or 13 foundational pieces that take years to develop?  That's multiple drafts worth of stuff.

What we actually do need FAs wise, are players that fit the system and that have experience in the system.  The Frank Gores of the world.  These guys need to be teaching our young players where to go and how to play.  We are clearly missing a lot of that on defense at the moment in particular.

So yea, eventually a really good FA can be brought in here and there, but we don't have the talent or the foundation in place to really go all in.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

4 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

Right. Cuz that's worked for us so many times.  lol 

Draft Draft Draft. Zach will be fine. @johnnysd is right.  This regime put their faith in Zach and he needs to be good for us to be good.  ?

 

Hey Greenbean, what's up, I follow your YouTube channel. I like a lot of the things you say. However, spending the money in free agency and targeting playmakers in the draft do not have to be mutually exclusive.

You know it takes at least a year for some players to feel comfortable in the NFL and start contributing.

Jets need a real balanced approach spend real money on proven playmakers and double down on the draft.

[JohnnyLV]

13 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

Hey Greenbean, what's up, I follow your YouTube channel. I like a lot of the things you say. However, spending the money in free agency and targeting playmakers in the draft do not have to be mutually exclusive.

You know it takes at least a year for some players to feel comfortable in the NFL and start contributing.

Jets need a real balanced approach spend real money on proven playmakers and double down on the draft.

Issue with this is that spending "real" money on FAs or basically Day 0 and 1 players has never shown to be effective but is in fact exceedingly rarely effective. All Day 0 and Day 1 players are not wanted by their original teams. Very important distinction.

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Issue with this is that spending "real" money on FAs or basically Day 0 and 1 players has never shown to be effective but is in fact exceedingly rarely effective. All Day 0 and Day 1 players are not wanted by their original teams. Very important distinction.

"never shown to be effective" 

"is in fact exceedingly rarely effective."

Said while the reigning SB champions are the biggest FA bombers in recent memory.

I swear, this place is as consistent as the squirts after a tequila and omelet supper.

[JohnnyLV]

10 hours ago, jgb said:

"never shown to be effective" 

"is in fact exceedingly rarely effective."

Said while the reigning SB champions are the biggest FA bombers in recent memory.

I swear, this place is as consistent as the squirts after a tequila and omelet supper.

Seriously? Brady and Gronk are going to be your disclaimer?

[jgb]

3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

Seriously? Brady and Gronk are going to be your disclaimer?

Antonio Brown, Leonard Fournette, Lesean McCoy, Brady. 

Gronk was technically a trade, but yes, him as well.

[GloryDays1985]

The answer to this is that the Jets finally need to hit an off-season out of the park. 
 

With this much cap space and draft picks they can improve pretty quickly. I know everyone is rolling their eyes reading this, but maybe one off-season the Jets will get it right. 

[JohnnyLV]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

Antonio Brown, Leonard Fournette, Lesean McCoy, Brady. 

Gronk was technically a trade, but yes, him as well.

All of whom were brought to a team that was already strong from the draft. All it shows is that signing Brady can complete your team,

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

All of whom were brought to a team that was already strong from the draft. All it shows is that signing Brady can complete your team,

Ah I see so when a team goes heavy on FA and wins a championship it doesn't validate the strategy because... you say so.

No one said FA alone can deliver a ring. Just that going heavy on FA can work. Of course, circumstance will always matter. That's a truism.

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, jgb said:

Ah I see so when a team goes heavy on FA and wins a championship it doesn't validate the strategy because... you say so.

No one said FA alone can deliver a ring. Just that going heavy on FA can work. Of course, circumstance will always matter. That's a truism.

I think the better argument against what Tampa did is that it appears to be a historical outlier. I can't think of another SB champion that was put together that way. (Could be missing a team?)

So, obviously, the FA approach CAN work, but how likely is it to work for random team X is really the question. 

[JohnnyLV]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

Ah I see so when a team goes heavy on FA and wins a championship it doesn't validate the strategy because... you say so.

No one said FA alone can deliver a ring. Just that going heavy on FA can work. Of course, circumstance will always matter. That's a truism.

You can find an example of almost every strategy that has worked to win a SB, but  the high priced FA path is a gigantic outlier.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

You can find an example of almost every strategy that has worked to win a SB, but  the high priced FA path is a gigantic outlier.

You're the one who said it "never" works. When you speak in absolutes, one outlier is all it takes, amigo. Don't blame the guy who scored on the open net. Tighten up your D.  

[JustInFudge]

Meh, no it's not.  That's just silly.  Zach could never improve and continue to suck but the Jets could get better around him therefore, finding the good category.  

The Saints are winning with a combo of Winston and Seimian - you can get those guys in the offseason.

The Panthers have a winning record with Sam Darnold and PJ Walker - probably can afford those guys in the offseason.

Denver is 5-5 w/ a former Jets QB.

Cleveland is 5-5 w/ Bakery Mayflower

The Colts are 5-5 w/ Carson Wentz.

I'm not sure if .500 is your definition of good but those team win in large part despite their QB play.

[CanadienJetsFan]

11 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Meh, no it's not.  That's just silly.  Zach could never improve and continue to suck but the Jets could get better around him therefore, finding the good category.  

The Saints are winning with a combo of Winston and Seimian - you can get those guys in the offseason.

The Panthers have a winning record with Sam Darnold and PJ Walker - probably can afford those guys in the offseason.

Denver is 5-5 w/ a former Jets QB.

Cleveland is 5-5 w/ Bakery Mayflower

The Colts are 5-5 w/ Carson Wentz.

I'm not sure if .500 is your definition of good but those team win in large part despite their QB play.

It’s called depth.

there’s very little on this roster 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

It’s called depth.

there’s very little on this roster 

Yep and if you add some depth, than it's not all on your raw under developed QB to carry the entire team.

[CanadienJetsFan]

2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Yep and if you add some depth, than it's not all on your raw under developed QB to carry the entire team.

The team is at least a year away from having decent depth. Next year’s draft is pivotal. Plus, spending on FA wisely.
 

[Hex]

On 11/17/2021 at 12:17 PM, johnnysd said:

Issue with this is that spending "real" money on FAs or basically Day 0 and 1 players has never shown to be effective but is in fact exceedingly rarely effective. All Day 0 and Day 1 players are not wanted by their original teams. Very important distinction.

There are many success stories from teams who have built from their own draft capital and teams who have done a ton of FA signings. It's not the method that makes something better than another, it's how it's carried out.

Another thing is that building from your own draft picks and building from FA signings have different structures and effects. Teams that draft a lot are rebuilding with the expectation of getting a lot of good long term players who aren't good to begin with, while teams that use FA a lot are normally in a win now mode, like the Buccaneers, Patriots and Cardinals. A very common practice is drafting first, and when those players get good fill in the holes with FA. 

But as I said earlier, it's not about the method, it's about the execution. Saleh and Douglas will prove in the next year if they are executing it well. Right now, that doesn't look the case.

[Dupe]

No,  the coach is not getting fired.  No the GM is not getting fired.  This is nonsense talk. If they are learning so be it but hopefully a good team emerges at some point. Find something else fun in the mean time.  

[#27TheDominator]

On 11/16/2021 at 8:09 PM, johnnysd said:

If you really think about it the Jets really only have one chance to be good over the next 3 years and that is for Zach Wilson to emerge. If that does not happen, in 3 years Saleh will be fired and Woody will hire the next hot defensive coordinator as head coach. Zach needs to basically put the team on his back despite the crappy coaching and make it happen.

I don't really buy this.  First of all, the O looked better without Zach at the helm, so I'm not sure why everything is "despite the crappy coaching."  It is unlikely that these guys will amount to anything without Wilson turning it around, but he can just be decent and not a stud and things will make a pretty big turn.  There is also the possibility that they can survive him sucking the same way the Titans, Bucs, Rams and Cards have landed on their feet despite their wannabe franchise QBs not turning out.

[GREENBEAN]

On 11/17/2021 at 3:01 PM, Ecuadorian Jet said:

Hey Greenbean, what's up, I follow your YouTube channel. I like a lot of the things you say. However, spending the money in free agency and targeting playmakers in the draft do not have to be mutually exclusive.

You know it takes at least a year for some players to feel comfortable in the NFL and start contributing.

Jets need a real balanced approach spend real money on proven playmakers and double down on the draft.

Sure, but it seems like JD is doing an 80/20 thing with Draft and FA respectively.  He signs guys on 1 yr deals to either prove they deserve longer or just fill the spot until a draftee can fill it.  I personally love it for where we are.  Once the core is established I think we will see more targeted FA signings for longer term.  

He did grab Davis and Lawson last year and I would think there will be a handgful of those each year too. 

?.  Thanks man.