Joe Douglas IS a Good GM

[The Crusher]

Just now, Larz said:

GMs and coaches are as good as their QB. So far, Not good lol. 

Or record. Wait, that really didn’t help. My bad. 

[rangerous]

Who knows if Douglas will be able to get this team over the top.he’s tied to the players he brings in and saleh. In my mind saleh is the bigger piece of the puzzle. Douglas has done his part, now it’s up to saleh to get those pieces to play together.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

9 hours ago, Warfish said:

So just to be clear, his record isn't good, and his #2 pick QB is a massive, historic bust.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly calling for him to be fired today or anything, but.....

The "he's so dreamy" hype from some of you is a bit much.

You may love him, but he's 100% on the hot seat right now.  Hence the Rodgers pursuit, clearly NOT a "for the long term" concept, but a "save our jobs" 1-2 year prayer....at great cost.

Win (i.e. playoffs) in 2023, or he, and his man Saleh, are likely done in NY.

 

I guess if you repeat this nonsense often enough, you will actually think it's the truth. Carry on.

[GKnight83]

I agree with the OP but you cannot really dump on folks who see both good and bad.

Everyone knows the draft is not an exact science and many players receive extensive prepping.

In baseball 30% is great for hitting.  In the NFL draft I am not sure what % is considered great. 

Maybe we should all look up Ozzie's % before going off on JD.

[RutgersJetFan]

How is the story not over for Becton? At this point he’s the equivalent of the 7th book in the Dune series where Frank Herbert was dead and his children were writing sh*t that nobody was even reading. 

[AVM]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

1) Which one was better?  Tannenbaum?  A case can be made I guess.

2) it’s not exactly a big praise to suggest he is.  

It's the same reason so many Jets fans remember Pennington fondly even though he never really achieved anything besides 17 torn rotator cuffs...

We are a sad, sad bunch.

[AVM]

That said I'm going to need a "Joe Douglas IS an average GM" thread with evidence before I'm ready to make my decision.

[Warfish]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It’s truly impressive how adept you are at inventing perspectives almost no one actually has.  

Still butthurt I don't like your bad QB ideas, eh?

That's a legit shame, I thought we was buds.  Seems you don't enjoy the barstool banter if it's aimed at your opinions.  

[Warfish]

7 hours ago, JETS SB said:

How do you define “great cost” ? A couple of 2nd round picks and money from the apparent “fake” cap? Gotcha. 

Draft Comp remains TBD, we'll see what that cost is only when the deal is finalized, if it gets finalized.

The great cost was $50/million a year for several years of cap space.  JD may try and spread it out more, but Rodgers isn't taking less to play for us, so the hit is the hit, only a question of how much it robs us of.

I'd also argue the JD thing is keeping our front office for looking as hard as they should at many other players that could upgrade us.  While I have no doubt they can do two or more things at once, we're just...not.  We're worse today than we were at the end of last year, health issues aside of course.  We've made a few side-grade moves, and lost a few players so far not yet replaced, and that's about it so far.  Draft will help, but I was hoping for more, and I think the Rodgers pursuit is getting in the way of more, cap wise, and time/effort wise.

[jtomm]

10 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Joe Douglas is average at best. Other thread was better

because of the video ? 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

I guess if you repeat this nonsense often enough, you will actually think it's the truth. Carry on.

Oh right, you think JD's pursuit of a 40 year old likely-1-year rental QB for $50 million/year and a lingering cap hit has nothing to do with being a GM in his fifth (of six) contract year, with a 20-46 record, and no playoff appearances, trying to keep his job and buy himself time to address the QB position he has, so far, utterly failed to address with any level of success. 

Because you think OUR Owner would stop him, lol.  

You're certainly entitled to your viewpoint LiL, I just find it pretty funny personally.

[jtomm]

10 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Supposedly it’s supposed to come out of the dark  but as of right now it’s pretty dim, 

[jtomm]

25 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Still butthurt I don't like your bad QB ideas, eh?

That's a legit shame, I thought we was buds.  Seems you don't enjoy the barstool banter if it's aimed at your opinions.  

[undertow]

3 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

You realize that Brandon Beane went to school for accounting right?

 

His sister and mom are both CPA's. 

 

Well that changes everything

[jgb]

10 hours ago, Warfish said:

So just to be clear, his record isn't good, and his #2 pick QB is a massive, historic bust.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly calling for him to be fired today or anything, but.....

The "he's so dreamy" hype from some of you is a bit much.

You may love him, but he's 100% on the hot seat right now.  Hence the Rodgers pursuit, clearly NOT a "for the long term" concept, but a "save our jobs" 1-2 year prayer....at great cost.

Win (i.e. playoffs) in 2023, or he, and his man Saleh, are likely done in NY.

 

Rodgers is designed to give us a chance to compete now but also to get JD through to a contract extension. With that financial security, he will then take his next shot on a QB of the future… god help us all…

[The Crusher]

38 minutes ago, jtomm said:

I hate you

[Warfish]

My grade of JD:

1. Coaching:  He didn't hire Eyeballs, so he gets a pass there, but he did hire Saleh, and I'm entirely unimpressed with Saleh as a Head Coach.  He's all bluster (receipts!), contradictory statements, and poor performance/decisions, especially at QB.  He hired MLF, already scapegoated off the staff.  No one here has ever expressed much love for our D.C., even after this year's much improved D performance.  

Grade:  C

2. Trades of Talent for Picks:  His best skill to-date.  Got vastly more than worth for Adams and Darnold.

Grade:  A

3. Free Agent Signings:  Mostly a mixed bag of short term guys who flopped, with a select few who did ok, but mostly a poor pool of players who weren't worth keeping longer.  Has failed to address QB via FA any better than he has with the draft.  The Flacco thing especially was laughable (cut, the traded to reacquire, lol)

Grade:  D

4. Draft (non-QB):  A mixed bag.  He picked Sauce and Wilson (guys most of us dumb forum folks also would have picked, so not exactly rocket science) and Hall (brave, most on this forum didn't want him at all), so he gets several points for that, but overall his picks are mostly placeholder JAG's who only played because of how deeply poor our roster was, not because they were that great themselves, outright misses, and one major bust (Becton, so far).  2020 is almost entire poor in hindsight, 2021 AVT is a nice piece, albeit like so many Jets got hurt, we can debate Carter the RB (I think he's a JAG personally, but I know some like him alot), and after that....mostly placeholders at best.  2022 was the big hit, Sauce, Wilson, Hall, with the rest TBD.

Grade:  B, only because of 2022.  D otherwise.

5. Draft (QB):  He picked Zach Wilson, a historic bust, at the most vital position on the field.  I don't care that Wilson was the "expected" guy at that spot accordingly to the draft talking heads, it's a colossal miss with long-term ramifications.

Grade:  F. 

6. Results:  20-46.  We're desperate for a QB today, with only a bust and a no-name GB backup on the roster.  Looking to go against the "doing it the right way" to get Aaron Rodgers as a 1-year rental, 2-year max at great cost (possibly picks, definitely payroll and cap hit).  4 years, no playoffs, continuing the 8 years before him.  Never more than 7 wins, i.e. no winning seasons.  

Grade:  D, only because we're at least trending positive, albeit very slowly.

JD should rightfully be on the Hot Seat in 2023 to produce more tangible results.  He's entering year 5 of his 6 year deal, and he will not (I assured you) being going into 2024 as a lame-duck GM.  He will either be extended, or he will be fired before the 2024 season. 

So 2023 is a make or break season for JD in terms of tangible results.

Because of his mismanagement of the QB position, he finds himself in a make or break year without a starting quality QB in-hand, hence the Rodgers effort.  Getting him likely buys JD that extension if we produce a winning, playoff season.  Failure, with a healthy Rodgers, almost assuredly spells the end of JD and Saleh here in NY.

I would not fire or consider firing JD now.  But if we produce a losing season in 2023, I would strongly consider it, depending on the circumstances of course.    

[ncjetman]

i completely agree with this post - everyone agrees that the jets have sucked forever- lousy talent management- drafting - coaching - just a total sh*tshow for years - and somehow people also think that a perennial contender gets built in a year or too - sorry but no - this team has more potential than any in recent years and i for one think joe d is a terrific gm - you should all be ashamed of yourselves for wanting what douglas is building and but not recognizing what he done - seriously - offensive and defensive rookie of the year plus breece hall in one draft - ok you all hate douglas while i enjoy the next few seasons - thank you joe douglas


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[jgb]

13 minutes ago, ncjetman said:

i completely agree with this post - everyone agrees that the jets have sucked forever- lousy talent management- drafting - coaching - just a total sh*tshow for years - and somehow people also think that a perennial contender gets built in a year or too - sorry but no - this team has more potential than any in recent years and i for one think joe d is a terrific gm - you should all be ashamed of yourselves for wanting what douglas is building and but not recognizing what he done - seriously - offensive and defensive rookie of the year plus breece hall in one draft - ok you all hate douglas while i enjoy the next few seasons - thank you joe douglas


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Those goddamn haters hatin’ all the time!

[viffer]

14 hours ago, JETS SB said:

Never liked soft salty pretzels anyways. 

 

I was with you up to this point. Sacrilege for a New Yorker. I suppose you don't like dirty water dogs either?

[southparkcpa]

3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

If you throw out the abysmal record so far then I guess he’s just swell. He did start with a disaster if a roster but he’s also has had plenty of draft picks to  address it. Missing on Zach Wilson and not understanding the importance of having an adequate NFL back up QB has really hurt his tenure. Will likely at the end of the day end his time here. 

Other than the iceberg, the Titanic was a hell of a cruise ship.

[jtomm]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

I hate you

[jtomm]

2 hours ago, AVM said:

That said I'm going to need a "Joe Douglas IS an average GM" thread with evidence before I'm ready to make my decision.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Oh right, you think JD's pursuit of a 40 year old likely-1-year rental QB for $50 million/year and a lingering cap hit has nothing to do with being a GM in his fifth (of six) contract year, with a 20-46 record, and no playoff appearances, trying to keep his job and buy himself time to address the QB position he has, so far, utterly failed to address with any level of success. 

Because you think OUR Owner would stop him, lol.  

You're certainly entitled to your viewpoint LiL, I just find it pretty funny personally.

No, I think Woody's pursuit of old Aaron is driving JD to make it happen. JD is not the owner, unless something has changed since your last perseveration about this. JD is doing what Woody wants him to do. Woody may be a numbskull, but he has also been assertive about the QB situation and very active in trying to make it happen. The desperate JD narrative just doesn't hold up under scrutiny. And it's year 4 of 6 not 5.

[kmnj]

you are what your record says you are

his record is bad-yes he had a great draft last year but that does not overshadow all his terrible moves-if you want to give credit he have to give blame too

this year is make or break year-you cant not make the playoffs again and if arod skips out on the jets joe should be fired at once-his job is to get us a qb and he has bigly failed in that area

 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

No, I think Woody's pursuit of old Aaron is driving JD to make it happen.

We disagree completely on that point.  

1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

JD is not the owner, unless something has changed since your last perseveration about this. JD is doing what Woody wants him to do.

JD is the GM.  If he doesn't want Rodgers, he should tell the Owner that and tell him he's not doing it.  

That's the job when you're GM.  

But again, we have no evidence that Woody is driving the decision over JD's wishes.  

1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Woody may be a numbskull, but he has also been assertive about the QB situation and very active in trying to make it happen.

And we don't know if that's on him, or to support JD.

Again, we're back to "when the move is bad, blame the Owner, when it's good, credit the GM". 

All speculation.

1 hour ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

The desperate JD narrative just doesn't hold up under scrutiny. And it's year 4 of 6 not 5.

No, 2023 is the 5th year of this 6 year deal.  His contract expires before the start of the 2025 season.

And he is unquestionably on the hook to produce a winner in 2023.

As I said before to someone else, Woody will not have JD dangle as a lame-deck in year 6 (2024) of his deal.  He'll be extended, or fired, before then.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

35 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We disagree completely on that point.  

JD is the GM.  If he doesn't want Rodgers, he should tell the Owner that and tell him he's not doing it.  

That's the job when you're GM.  

But again, we have no evidence that Woody is driving the decision over JD's wishes.  

And we don't know if that's on him, or to support JD.

Again, we're back to "when the move is bad, blame the Owner, when it's good, credit the GM". 

All speculation.

No, 2023 is the 5th year of this 6 year deal.  His contract expires before the start of the 2025 season.

And he is unquestionably on the hook to produce a winner in 2023.

As I said before to someone else, Woody will not have JD dangle as a lame-deck in year 6 (2024) of his deal.  He'll be extended, or fired, before then.

Unless you're a complete moron, the press accounts have been pretty clear that Woody had decided at the end of the season they needed a quality QB to compete. Here's one example. I don't see anything here that suggests that Woody is sitting in a dark room somewhere while Joe Douglas connives to keep his job. This is an owner driven decision, as one would expect it to be when the money involved is so substantial. 

Rodgers trade drags on: 'I'm not the patient sort'

Johnson says 'we're willing to stick with our plan,' which is to land the four-time MVP

 

 

 

By Garrett Podell

 

Mar 28, 2023 at 6:21 pm ET•2 min read

USATSI

All offseason, New York Jets owner Woody Johnson has been crystal clear with his thirst to add a veteran quarterback, saying that is his roster's "missing piece" back in January. After Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers -- a four-time NFL MVP and Super Bowl XLV MVP -- revealed his "intention is to play for the New York Jets," the anticipation for the Jets and Packers to come to an agreement is at an all-time high. 

"I know that the reaction of the building was pretty high and everybody was pretty excited about having a player of that caliber," Johnson said Tuesday at the NFL Annual Meeting in Phoenix, Arizona, per ESPN. 

Johnson articulated his anxiety over a deal between the teams not being done yet while simultaneously attempting to understate his concern. 

"We're anxious. I guess we look forward is that we're optimistic, but we have a plan, so we're willing to stick with our plan. And I don't think anybody's hyperventilating at this point."

However, Gang Green's owner eventually laid out his feelings that he and the rest of the football world share: Patience is running thin in terms of how much longer he wants to wait for his acquisition of Rodgers to become official. 

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"I'm not the patient sort," Johnson said, via The Athletic. "We're in the win business. We have to win now."  

Jets head coach Robert Saleh struck a different tone from his boss.

"I'm not going to hit the panic button," Saleh said Monday at the NFL Annual Meeting, per ESPN. "If a quarterback [Rodgers] has a great rapport with the [offensive] coordinator, there's no urgency. The quarterback, if he understands the system, if the quarterback knows it, it's just a matter of just refining skills and doing all that stuff. So there's no hurry."

While Saleh alluded to Rodgers and his tight relationship with former Packers offensive coordinator and current Jets play-caller Nathaniel Hackett, he never mentioned Rodgers by name. Having Rodgers, notorious for using a complex hand-signal system, able to work with their wide receiver group sooner rather than later would be beneficial for all Jets pass-catchers.

Jets general manager Joe Douglas reiterated Monday that Rodgers is their sole focus despite Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson tweeting his desire to be traded. 

"First of all, Lamar Jackson is a fantastic player, but where we stand is, it would be disingenuous and negotiating in bad faith if we went down that path," Douglas said, per ESPN. "We have our plan, we have our process and we're sticking to that ... We're never going to operate in bad faith."  

Now, Johnson has to keep his faith in Douglas to reach across the aisle to Packers general manager Brian Gutekunst in order to come together on a trade deal. Negotiations are reportedly being held up by New York's desire to receive a pick in addition to Rodgers since he expressed a strong desire to retire earlier this offseason. The first real "deadline" for this deal to be done is April 27, the opening night of the 2023 NFL Draft. Stay tuned.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Unless you're a complete moron, the press accounts....

I'm just gonna stop you right here.  If you think the NY Sports media or a Jets Twitter tweet can tell you who is truly driving this decision, or if it's over the wishes of the GM, we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I find that idea absolutely laughable. 

The media gets what the Organization wants them to get (not much since JD took over), and Woody, for the most part, just plays PR mouthpiece in the media, flogging uniforms and mouthing platitudes, he's not out there saying "I told JD he damn well better get Aaron Rodgers or else", lol.  He's not Dan Snyder or George Steinbrenner.  Saying "we need to improve at QB" or "we need to win now" isn't a sign he's overruling his GM on a decision, it's a sign that the Org. want to make clear to fans and business partners that Zach Wilson wasn't good enough, no playoffs in 12 years isn't good enough, and they're gonna try and do more/better, standard PR talk in this scenario.

If Woody was in fact overruling JD, a deal would be done, because Woody wouldn't balk at "overpaying" for Rodgers, because Woody is not JD.  The fact the deal is not done says who is running this how right now.

So sadly, you might just have to think I'm a complete moron I guess.  

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I'm just gonna stop you right here.  If you think the NY Sports media or a Jets Twitter tweet can tell you who is truly driving this decision, or if it's over the wishes of the GM, we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I find that idea absolutely laughable. 

The media gets what the Organization wants them to get (not much since JD took over), and Woody, for the most part, just plays PR mouthpiece in the media, flogging uniforms and mouthing platitudes, he's not out there saying "I told JD he damn well better get Aaron Rodgers or else", lol.  He's not Dan Snyder or George Steinbrenner.  Saying "we need to improve at QB" or "we need to win now" isn't a sign he's overruling his GM on a decision, it's a sign that the Org. want to make clear to fans and business partners that Zach Wilson wasn't good enough, no playoffs in 12 years isn't good enough, and they're gonna try and do more/better, standard PR talk in this scenario.

If Woody was in fact overruling JD, a deal would be done, because Woody wouldn't balk at "overpaying" for Rodgers, because Woody is not JD.  The fact the deal is not done says who is running this how right now.

So sadly, you might just have to think I'm a complete moron I guess.  

Nice try. Yeah, the media who actually interviews the people in question as well as speak to others in the organization know absolutely nothing, but you, who sit in your basement on a laptop, receive communications directly to your mind from Joe Douglas. Okay. In this case, I think you are stubbornly holding to a narrative despite any evidence to the contrary while having literally zero evidence of your position. That's what's sad.

[JETS SB]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

 I'm a complete moron I guess.  

Shortened your comment, just slightly. And I have to totally agree with you, for the first time! You see, we aren’t so far apart. 

[JETS SB]

11 hours ago, Warfish said:

We're worse today than we were at the end of last year, health issues aside of course. 

Explain please. 

[Bleedin Green]

As is so often the case around here, people try to clamp down on opposite extremes and so much gets lots on their journey to confirmation bias.  In realty Douglas is quite simply an "okay" GM, no more or less.  He's definitely had some great hits to be thrilled with, but also some horrific misses of his that we've seen other GMs around the league get fired for far less.

While in the draft both Sauce and GW were no doubt great choices, the 2020 draft has already made the list of classic Jets blunders, and Zach Wilson is already making lists of all-time NFL draft busts.  Similarly in FA, DJ Reed was a great pick-up and I actually like the Tyler Conklin signing more than many around here, considering the total dearth of talent at TE throughout the NFL after the top 5, and on this team for over a decade.  But again, the flip side to that is pretty much every signing across the OL, LB, and S have been one miss after another.

Similarly, the concept of more middle-tier acquisitions regularly get super-hyped as great picks or shot down as terrible busts depending on the narrative trying to be told, but neither are really true.  As good as AVT and Breece Hall have been when healthy, for the high draft capital spent on interior OL and RB, they're not what makes a GM.  On the flip side, the 2021 draft wasn't quite the disaster some have said either, as while the disaster that is Wilson greatly hurts it, there were also some solid middle-tier picks (like MC2 and Echols, who round out the team's strongest unit).  The other reality is there are still a number of unknowns out there.  JJ has yet to prove much of anything, neither good nor bad, despite how often his name manages to get brought up with JD, and he's not the only one.  Again, it's often more a matter of some trying to tell a particular narrative rather than seeing it for what it is, some really good, some terribly bad, and a bunch in between, which is the essence of JD's entire resume.

In the end he's obviously got this year to prove something, and it will carry plenty of weight with it.  The Jets aren't going to pull another Maccagnan-like nonsense of letting a guy draft and then immediately firing him, so let's not pretend he already has a foot out the door, and if all of this pays off this year, he could find himself getting a new fat deal next year.  However, he also hasn't done nearly enough to earn a free pass, so if this offseason and upcoming season turn out to be a failure it'll deservedly cost him his job.

Of course, in the end a whole lot of this can very heavily depend on one position and a couple of players who shall not be named.

[Warfish]

15 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Nice try. Yeah, the media who actually interviews the people in question as well as speak to others in the organization know absolutely nothing, but you, who sit in your basement on a laptop, receive communications directly to your mind from Joe Douglas. Okay. In this case, I think you are stubbornly holding to a narrative despite any evidence to the contrary while having literally zero evidence of your position. That's what's sad.

Well, I was getting worried, but then this morning on Sirius NFL Radio, I heard the hosts basically say everything I've been saying.  So now that the media has said it, I feel alot better.  Thanks.

Maybe we should poll the forum, see who everyone thinks is really behind it, and if the other supports it.  Is it Woody WITH JD support, is it JD WITH Woody support, or is it Woody WITHOUT JD support (JD without Woody support wouldn't work of course).

Might make for a good way to see what the fanbase thinks about who is behind the Rodgers push, and thus who should get credit or criticism for it.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Well, I was getting worried, but then this morning on Sirius NFL Radio, I heard the hosts basically say everything I've been saying.  So now that the media has said it, I feel alot better.  Thanks.

Maybe we should poll the forum, see who everyone thinks is really behind it, and if the other supports it.  Is it Woody WITH JD support, is it JD WITH Woody support, or is it Woody WITHOUT JD support (JD without Woody support wouldn't work of course).

Might make for a good way to see what the fanbase thinks about who is behind the Rodgers push, and thus who should get credit or criticism for it.

So now that you got a couple of talking heads to agree with you, the media is golden? LOL.

[Warfish]

49 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

So now that you got a couple of talking heads to agree with you, the media is golden? LOL.

I do believe, old friend, that you were the one who cited them as worthy of deference, not I.

My disdain for the modern era of Twitter Media is well known, and universal, lol.

By the way, what are we even arguing about at this point?  Is this one of those famous distinctions-without-a-difference issues?