Josh Jacobs Has Left The Building (update: he's back)

[jgb]

23 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

you def don't understand contracts as well as you think you do. you still have not been able to even address the very obvious points or presented an argument. Meanwhile the entire league has done what I have suggested to quickly build contract values at all other positions. 

I think this is a case of you being book smart but having no common sense. Not a terrible thing or unique, that effects most of your profession, lack of real life experiences mostly. Thinking case law is more important the the law or constitution etc.

Saquon is making less that he would have if he taken the 13 mill reportedly offered. At no fault of his own, but bad agent apparently. But he got lucky with this often not used clause where he could negotiate a 1 year. No one has done this for like a decade. And so yes he may have beat the tag money, but it is sadly just one year and is less money this year with even less value to help any one next year raise the pay gap. 

Again you are welcome to argue against anything I have said, or simple continue to disagree. But as Im sure as you have heard in court many times, you will have to present a case or have some sort of reasoning to prove your point unicorn.

Only been writing contracts as a lawyer for 20 years. Yeah what do I know. And by the way this is more about negotiation tactics than a contract anyway, not that you appreciate the difference.

Pal, you’re just wrong. You even know it but the ego won’t let you admit it. Sad really. You can have the last 400 unhinged words because we all know you can’t stop even if you tried.

[BornJetsFan1983]

8 minutes ago, jgb said:

Only been writing contracts as a lawyer for 20 years. Yeah what do I know. And by the way this is more about negotiation tactics than a contract anyway, not that you appreciate the difference.

Pal, you’re just wrong. You even know it but the ego won’t let you admit it. Sad really. You can have the last 400 unhinged words because we all know you can’t stop even if you tried.

your not very good at this lawyer stuff are you lol.

[jgb]

Anyway, back to productive discourse. I’d bet the Raiders follow the Giants here and throw Jacobs a bone.

[MichaelScott]

23 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

I wonder what Breece is thinking? Anyone think he was a part of the conference call?

In 1.5 - 2 years this board will be ripping itself apart with people convinced that he will be the reincarnation of the Frank Gore, Adrian Peterson day of the running back. He's got at least 7 to 9 more 1000 yard seasons ahead of him, 4 yr/25mil per is a no brainer. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, MichaelScott said:

In 1.5 - 2 years this board will be ripping itself apart with people convinced that he will be the reincarnation of the Frank Gore, Adrian Peterson day of the running back. He's got at least 7 to 9 more 1000 yard seasons ahead of him, 4 yr/25mil per is a no brainer. 

Half will do this.  The other half will be calling him “Meece” for being too greedy and selfish.  And there’s no in between.  

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Half will do this.  The other half will be calling him “Meece” for being too greedy and selfish.  And there’s no in between.  

Meece, Selfish Sauce, Gimme Garrett

[slats]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Half will do this.  The other half will be calling him “Meece” for being too greedy and selfish.  And there’s no in between.  

If Breece recovers completely and looks like what we think he has the potential to be, he’ll be a good RB candidate to get a decent second contract. He was only 20 when he was drafted, so he’ll only be 24 when he’s due. If he looks great in that third year, doing an extension before his fourth starts might be ideal, especially for a position where just a couple million above a very low franchise tag number is considered a great contract. All the guarantees in the first two years, a couple bigger non-guaranteed years on the backend to increase the average. He’s gotta get back to form, though, first, but the potential for a payday is there for him. If he’s that guy, I’d rather pay a little extra and keep him happy and in camp rather than play the franchise tag game with him. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, slats said:

If Breece recovers completely and looks like what we think he has the potential to be, he’ll be a good RB candidate to get a decent second contract. He was only 20 when he was drafted, so he’ll only be 24 when he’s due. If he looks great in that third year, doing an extension before his fourth starts might be ideal, especially for a position where just a couple million above a very low franchise tag number is considered a great contract. All the guarantees in the first two years, a couple bigger non-guaranteed years on the backend to increase the average. He’s gotta get back to form, though, first, but the potential for a payday is there for him. If he’s that guy, I’d rather pay a little extra and keep him happy and in camp rather than play the franchise tag game with him. 

Probably this.  I suspect he'll struggle this year, at least initially, then look awesome in 2024 by the time he's eligible to talk extension.

I'm down to pay a RB who excels as a receiver, and Hall (11.5 yards per catch; 7.0 yards per target) fits the bill there based on what we know so far.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, slats said:

If Breece recovers completely and looks like what we think he has the potential to be, he’ll be a good RB candidate to get a decent second contract. He was only 20 when he was drafted, so he’ll only be 24 when he’s due. If he looks great in that third year, doing an extension before his fourth starts might be ideal, especially for a position where just a couple million above a very low franchise tag number is considered a great contract. All the guarantees in the first two years, a couple bigger non-guaranteed years on the backend to increase the average. He’s gotta get back to form, though, first, but the potential for a payday is there for him. If he’s that guy, I’d rather pay a little extra and keep him happy and in camp rather than play the franchise tag game with him. 

 

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Probably this.  I suspect he'll struggle this year, at least initially, then look awesome in 2024 by the time he's eligible to talk extension.

I'm down to pay a RB who excels as a receiver, and Hall (11.5 yards per catch; 7.0 yards per target) fits the bill there based on what we know so far.

RBs are starting to fight back and it’s working. Giants threw another mill at Saquon and I expect Raiders to do the same with Jacobs. Never mind what that “take less to make more” guy repeats incessantly.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, jgb said:

 

RBs are starting to fight back and it’s working. Giants threw another mill at Saquon and I expect Raiders to do the same with Jacobs. Never mind what that “take less to make more” guy repeats incessantly.

He got one thing right (Braxton Berrios) and now the dude thinks he’s an expert on everything smh

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

He got one thing right (Braxton Berrios) and now the dude thinks he’s an expert on everything smh

I just wish I knew more about contracts. Would really help me out in my job.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, jgb said:

I just wish I knew more about contracts. Would really help me out in my job.

Some day posters like @BornJetsFan1983 won’t be the only contract/negotiations experts on JN

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Some day posters like @BornJetsFan1983 won’t be the only contract/negotiations experts on JN

Well, nothing can compete with a JD from Message Board University. I guess I should see if he offers courses in contract law.

[BornJetsFan1983]

43 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Some day posters like @BornJetsFan1983 won’t be the only contract/negotiations experts on JN

god I hope so! One day! You see the contract he got? looks like the extra money over the top of the tag is crazy, has to get a bunch of stuff to qualify. He got screwed. Never going to see that extra money. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

43 minutes ago, jgb said:

Well, nothing can compete with a JD from Message Board University. I guess I should see if he offers courses in contract law.

lol dude you just keep digging, pages of you trying to talk down to me because you, the "lawyer" don't have anything to dispute what i said.. just admit you don't know what you are talking about and move on. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

49 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He got one thing right (Braxton Berrios) and now the dude thinks he’s an expert on everything smh

now like then, it really isn't me being right. Im not giving you opinion. I'm telling you how it is. lol and you are welcome. the lawyer guy has been trying to make his case by simply saying i'm wrong and don't know contracts. its silly. dude acting like its complicated. Its not. 

[batman10023]

On 7/24/2023 at 9:44 PM, hawk said:

I like Barkley, but I personally do not have faith in his health first and foremost, and slightly in second place, he isn't CMC.

I do agree the receiving threat adds value.  

I also agree the terms of a contract are more important than APY.

The Giants made an offer of $13 per, so at face value they showed love.

They could have offered something like 4 years $64 Million ($16 Miliion per) with $26 Million Guaranteed. $20 Million Signing Bonus and $3 Million Base the first two years.  Cap Hits of $8 Million the first two years.  Essentially a $13 Million Per Year Two Year Deal with 2 Club Options (Void Years) to follow.

They Made an offer of $13 Million per Year.  That is a stiff offer in a declining Market.

do you have any source for that 2 yr 26MM contract?

No way Barkley does not do that deal.  He's going to end up playing on 2 tags for $23MM best case.  why would he not take 26MM?

 

[Raideraholic]

On 7/25/2023 at 3:57 PM, jgb said:

Anyway, back to productive discourse. I’d bet the Raiders follow the Giants here and throw Jacobs a bone.

Who cares Jimmy G made it through first practice without getting hurt.  That’s the real news anyone cares about.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, batman10023 said:

do you have any source for that 2 yr 26MM contract?

No way Barkley does not do that deal.  He's going to end up playing on 2 tags for $23MM best case.  why would he not take 26MM?

 

Barkley signed a 1 year deal for $11M. If he’s tagged next year, it’ll be the first at $13.2M.

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

now like then, it really isn't me being right. Im not giving you opinion. I'm telling you how it is. lol and you are welcome. the lawyer guy has been trying to make his case by simply saying i'm wrong and don't know contracts. its silly. dude acting like its complicated. Its not. 

You are making it seem simple when it is not.  Make more by taking less is the "simple fact" you ridiculously are still spouting.  It is obvious that you are believing every team leak on these deals, but the fact is, these guys need guaranteed money and taking some bullsh*t deal so that Bijan Robinson makes more when his deal is up does not do sh*t for Barkley or Jacobs.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You are making it seem simple when it is not.  Make more by taking less is the "simple fact" you ridiculously are still spouting.  It is obvious that you are believing every team leak on these deals, but the fact is, these guys need guaranteed money and taking some bullsh*t deal so that Bijan Robinson makes more when his deal is up does not do sh*t for Barkley or Jacobs.

His projection is wild. He was the one telling me I didn’t know contracts — as if that even matters, this is about negotiation tactics, not a piece of paper.

Not sure if he believes what he’s saying or if he’s just a ridiculous message board spazz.

[hawk]

3 hours ago, batman10023 said:

do you have any source for that 2 yr 26MM contract?

No way Barkley does not do that deal.  He's going to end up playing on 2 tags for $23MM best case.  why would he not take 26MM?

 

Essentially.

Fictitious to show Cap Manipulation.  

[BornJetsFan1983]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

You are making it seem simple when it is not.  Make more by taking less is the "simple fact" you ridiculously are still spouting.  It is obvious that you are believing every team leak on these deals, but the fact is, these guys need guaranteed money and taking some bullsh*t deal so that Bijan Robinson makes more when his deal is up does not do sh*t for Barkley or Jacobs.

its a simple concept. 

I dont believe every leak, story or guess out there. But i do believe S Barkley. There is not reason for him to lie. I also believe to a degree reporting by beat writers, as many have shown reliable on contract talks.

I have never said they dont need guaranteed money, I in fact mentioned it as jjust one factor in negotiating and taking top end deals, as every other position has done for their top contracts. 

As I originally stated Barkley and Jacobs needed to take top deals to make them the top paid RB's, instead of trying to get some un realistic contract, stupidly leading to lower valued contracts and costing themselves and future backs $. 

You have not disagreed with what or said, just some made up position i never took. I love to hear how I am wrong or what you suggest as a path forward. I'm not a professional agent or "lawyer" but seems to me that trying to reinvent the wheel is not the most reliable way to proceeding. Seems to me that the RB's should do what ever other position in the league has done. Incrementally build to higher and higher contracts and stop taking cheap 1 year deals when you are the top talent.

you are welcome to disagree, but it would be great to get a response other than making up a position i don't have nor I want to defend. 

Bijan if he is good, will be offered top money if he plays as good as people expect him too. And he woudl be rigth to take that multi year contract adding more to the top contracts and raising everyone's price.

This simple premise, you don't seem to agree or even acknowledge is not complicated and neither is the stupidly and greed of RB's that mess it up. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

His projection is wild. He was the one telling me I didn’t know contracts — as if that even matters, this is about negotiation tactics, not a piece of paper.

Not sure if he believes what he’s saying or if he’s just a ridiculous message board spazz.

lol to be fair, you can try to move the goal posts all you want, but if you look at my posts all of them precisely argue on how RB's can get bigger money and how to do it. The process. Im not sure why you are so hung up contract and your ability to do them. But all your posts indicate you don't know sh*t about either. 

It is funny how you as lawyer, presumably make arguments professionally are so ill equipped in this thread, to the point where you can't even stay on topic or make a point.  

[BornJetsFan1983]

3 hours ago, batman10023 said:

do you have any source for that 2 yr 26MM contract?

No way Barkley does not do that deal.  He's going to end up playing on 2 tags for $23MM best case.  why would he not take 26MM?

 

stupidity, but supposedly he told his people to get the deal done. But they did not. Barkley was not interested in fighting for every single penny he just wanted to sign and get the needle moving. It would have been a good deal for him and help Jacobs or other in his negotiation. 

[jgb]

If it thinks I’m reading all of that drivel it’s more spasmodic than I thought 

[Hal]

11 hours ago, slats said:

If Breece recovers completely and looks like what we think he has the potential to be, he’ll be a good RB candidate to get a decent second contract. He was only 20 when he was drafted, so he’ll only be 24 when he’s due. If he looks great in that third year, doing an extension before his fourth starts might be ideal, especially for a position where just a couple million above a very low franchise tag number is considered a great contract. All the guarantees in the first two years, a couple bigger non-guaranteed years on the backend to increase the average. He’s gotta get back to form, though, first, but the potential for a payday is there for him. If he’s that guy, I’d rather pay a little extra and keep him happy and in camp rather than play the franchise tag game with him. 

JD wanted to move up and take him in the 1st.   
 

That was to be able to lock him with the 5th year option.   Breece has a better chance at a good 2nd deal by not getting taken in the 1st.  

[Barry McCockinner]

 

[Hex]

Just now, Barry McCockinner said:

 

Darn. I was hoping for a backfield of Hall, Cook, Taylor, and Jacobs. 

Can't collect them all now.

[PS17]

On 7/24/2023 at 1:10 PM, PS17 said:

I have Barkley and Jacobs as my starting RBs in one of my dynasty leagues.

Update:

[bostonmajet]

On 7/24/2023 at 12:48 PM, Joe W. Namath said:

Good for him.  That is what the rules allow him to do so he can do ahead and do it.  I would not show up to work if I did not have to.  

Now he can show up for week one and get his 10 million dollars.  No need to have Zoom calls to whine and cry about it.

I don't know about that. Not sure what the contract dispute was but these guys claim that money is respect. But, the ones who hold out rarely get the legacy they want. Look at Jeter vs A-rod. In the end Jeter was beloved and A-rod not as much. Jeter was so well respected that he walked into Fenway park and got a standing ovation from a rival fan base.

Holding out for the most money doesn't alway work out for the player. Now Revis did get his ring and the HOF, but at what cost? He got a ring with his rivals who mocked him saying he only got the ring for playing for them. Pats fans think they would have gotten the SB without him. Many Jets fans are happy to see he got fat. Yeah, maybe he. made more money this way and he did get his ring, but had he showed the same appreciation and class as Jeter, he would have been the most beloved Jets player for the last few decades.

In the end, it depends on what you want. Revis held out and yeah, got his money, but he was out of shape and that year he was not himself. Had he been there throughout camp would he have been so much better that we would have gone to the big game - I doubt it. But, we will never know because, while under contract that He held out to get, he put himself above the team.

Bell may have gotten more money, but his career ended  on a big thud. Had he stayed in Pittsburg, he might have made a little less money, but he would have had a happier end of career, IMO.

[Alka]

41 minutes ago, bostonmajet said:

I don't know about that. Not sure what the contract dispute was but these guys claim that money is respect. But, the ones who hold out rarely get the legacy they want. Look at Jeter vs A-rod. In the end Jeter was beloved and A-rod not as much. Jeter was so well respected that he walked into Fenway park and got a standing ovation from a rival fan base.

Holding out for the most money doesn't alway work out for the player. Now Revis did get his ring and the HOF, but at what cost? He got a ring with his rivals who mocked him saying he only got the ring for playing for them. Pats fans think they would have gotten the SB without him. Many Jets fans are happy to see he got fat. Yeah, maybe he. made more money this way and he did get his ring, but had he showed the same appreciation and class as Jeter, he would have been the most beloved Jets player for the last few decades.

In the end, it depends on what you want. Revis held out and yeah, got his money, but he was out of shape and that year he was not himself. Had he been there throughout camp would he have been so much better that we would have gone to the big game - I doubt it. But, we will never know because, while under contract that He held out to get, he put himself above the team.

Bell may have gotten more money, but his career ended  on a big thud. Had he stayed in Pittsburg, he might have made a little less money, but he would have had a happier end of career, IMO.

And then there is holding out because you're getting screwed, and you want what is fair.  I think these elite running backs are getting screwed, and I don't blame them for holding out.

The only problem is that these guys don't have any leverage, with the exception of withholding their services.  

The reason why they don't have leverage is that it seems to me that recently, the running back position has fallen out of favor, and teams throughout the NFL are offering what the current market value is, which is on the decline.

The career of a running back in the NFL is on average about 4 or 5 years, and to me, they're getting the short end of the stick.

I hope things turn around in the future.  Barkely on the Giants is to me the most valuable player on the Giants, but the Giants have the leverage, and the market is depressed for running backs.  He had to take less, or stay home.  I think he did the right thing, but with the pounding he and others take, I would like these elite backs to get paid more.

[BornJetsFan1983]

Wish he had got more. These guy are screwing themselves 

[bostonmajet]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

And then there is holding out because you're getting screwed, and you want what is fair.  I think these elite running backs are getting screwed, and I don't blame them for holding out.

The only problem is that these guys don't have any leverage, with the exception of withholding their services.  

The reason why they don't have leverage is that it seems to me that recently, the running back position has fallen out of favor, and teams throughout the NFL are offering what the current market value is, which is on the decline.

The career of a running back in the NFL is on average about 4 or 5 years, and to me, they're getting the short end of the stick.

I hope things turn around in the future.  Barkely on the Giants is to me the most valuable player on the Giants, but the Giants have the leverage, and the market is depressed for running backs.  He had to take less, or stay home.  I think he did the right thing, but with the pounding he and others take, I would like these elite backs to get paid more.

If the league doesn't 'value' those positions anymore, then that is just supply and demand. And if it is true that they are not that valued, then holding out isn't going to get them anything. Yes, it sucks that the longevity of RBs is shorter than others, but saying the market is low is a different problem than they are stuck.

My point was about Revis - who held out before signing his contract, and then half the F out again a few years later. Came back into town out of shape, pulled a hammy and was not himself for a year. So, screw the fans, screw the team, and screw the contract he signed - ...

The other example was Bell, and he sat an entire year because he thought he was going to get this killer contract and in the end he lost a year of pay and ended his career. He even came back and later said he regretted the decision. I wasn't commenting on the fairness of it all - was commenting on how sometimes these holds out cost the player more in the long run. https://sports.yahoo.com/leveon-bell-regrets-holding-out-leaving-steelers-i-should-never-have-left-200521933.html.

If you want to talk about 'fairness' - my wife is a social worker and busts her butt helping people who have to choose between food and rent and yet, she doesn't make a living wage. Supply and demand can be a heartless .... - so again not arguing with the fairness - exploring the idea that holdouts don't often give the player the best results.

Maybe teams shouldn't be allowed a FA exclusion, or a second one. Maybe the rules should be different for a RB, but again, it wasn't about the rules or fairness, it was about the best choice for long term success/happiness.

[Bronx]

Re: 

Josh Jacobs Has Left The Building (update: he's back)

Congratulations @Raideraholic