Let’s talk about Zach Wilson

[Rich Thornburgh]

On 8/2/2023 at 3:11 PM, elvispookie said:

The ONLY 2 things a QB needs:

1) Deciphering a defense quickly (processing speed)

2) Accuracy

Zach has neither. On top of that, he is TERRIFIED to get hit.  He does one read... the first one.. then self preservation kicks in and he runs away as fast as he can.  I do not see anything changing with him (even with Rodgers) as you cannot teach someone how to be unafraid. 

But is he better than Trevor Lawrence?

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

One of these years Zach will get a good offensive coordinator 

And every OC will be judged by Zach’s stats alone!

[Dunnie]

I think the thing is that he’s not getting better and there’s an effort afoot to reward him (and Becton) for doing the bare minimum of what their jobs require, which would be fine if they were both picked on Day Three.

No effort for that .. just supporting him .. there were aspects of his game that absolutely looked markedly improved .. and there were aspects that looked equally bad.

He is improving .. whether or not he can become what the team hopes is not certain for sure.

But to repeatedly slam him seems counter productive to me.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Biggs]

10 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Why can't the antizaxxers admit the kid is getting better ? Why is that a bad thing ?

I don't get it ..jgb, jetsfan80, TomShane ... Can you clue me in?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

How do you know he's getting better?  Haven't seen him face an NFL defense thats trying to stop him since last year. 
 

 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Biggs said:

How do you know he's getting better?  Haven't seen him face an NFL defense thats trying to stop him since last year. 
 

 

Magical thinking. He probably hasn’t changed his underwear since Zach hit that long bomb last week.

[NIGHT STALKER]

What I find really comical are some posters are still posting Carr BS...damn, you guys need to really get an enema because your sh*t is way backed up.

 

[Biggs]

On 7/28/2023 at 9:54 PM, Larz said:

That obviously wasn’t the point

Wilson is vastly superior in talent. Don’t embarrass yourself by disputing that. White is the guy with cement feet that takes the check downs. His arm is nowhere near Zach’s. The difference between them last year was mental. Experience, confidence and reading defenses. 
 

Wasn’t white getting starter money this year?  
 

Zach has shown improvement in several key areas. 
 

humility, accountability and confidence 

on the field he is stepping up in the pocket, the ball is coming out on time and he is driving the ball. 
 

no offense, but I’ll go with Sabo on this over a hater. 🤷‍♂️

Brock Purdy cone on down

[Biggs]

10 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

It starts with “dis” and ends with “ease”.

If JD was half the GM you claim he is he would have burned the uniforms and drafted a case of Lysol with his first pick instead of 400lbs of hostess twinkees.

[FactsOnly]

Zach Wilson is the FUTURE at Quarterback 

praise be!!

[slats]

11 hours ago, JKlecko said:

I see that either your reasoning is not better than Tom's or you're just trying to be a wise guy.  They knew that Zach needed to sit this year and do a re-set.  They also knew that if they didn't start winning this year, that Saleh was probably going to be on the hot seat if not get fired.  If they had given up on Zach, they would have signed Carr early on to a 4- or 5-year contact and wouldn't have had to wait around or give up draft picks.  That would have signalled that they had given up on Zach.  They could have then brought in a better backup.  One of the reasons the Jets liked and wanted Rodgers is that he is friends with Zach and Rodgers asked to make sure that Zach was still part of the Jets plans, becaue he wanted to come here and help Zach develop.

They went out and got Rodgers because he was the best QB available, far better than Derek Carr can ever hope to become. It looks like he’s here for at least two years, and maybe more. Zach is under contract for two more years, and then he’s gone. The only reason he’s a part of their plans right now is because his contract is fully guaranteed and his trade value at the end of last season was dog ****. The hope/plan now is that he’s an adequate backup for the next year or two and then either JD finds some unsuspecting trade partner like Matt Rhule again, or he’ll walk in free agency and the Jets will take their comp pick - if his next contract even qualifies for one. 

[Joe W. Namath]

20 minutes ago, Biggs said:

If JD was half the GM you claim he is he would have burned the uniforms and drafted a case of Lysol with his first pick instead of 400lbs of hostess twinkees.

We are about to have the best season weve had in 20 years and the number 1 topic on the board is bash zach wilson.  Jet fans………

[Biggs]

9 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

We are about to have the best season weve had in 20 years and the number 1 topic on the board is bash zach wilson.  Jet fans………

We made it to the AFC championship game twice in the last 20 years.   We haven’t made the playoffs yet.

[Lith]

14 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

We are about to have the best season weve had in 20 years and the number 1 topic on the board is bash zach wilson.  Jet fans………

Wilson will be a topic of discussion throughout the preseason.  He is the guy we will be watching in preseason games.  He was the starting QB the last two years.   He is a polarizing figure among Jet fans.  He will be a topic of conversation among fans.  But once the season starts, and AR is out there on the field for all of us to see every Sunday, I would imagine the ZW talk will fade away.  As long as Aaron stays healthy.

Its just another 5 weeks, Joe.  Hang in there.

[slats]

4 minutes ago, Lith said:

But once the season starts, and AR is out there on the field for all of us to see every Sunday, I would imagine the ZW talk will fade away.

Off the top of my head I can think of three or four posters who will never allow that happen. 

[jtomm]

33 minutes ago, slats said:

Off the top of my head I can think of three or four posters who will never allow that happen. 

^^   true    🤨

[Lith]

39 minutes ago, slats said:

Off the top of my head I can think of three or four posters who will never allow that happen. 

You are probably right.  But at least once the season starts, the Zach stuff will be diluted by talk of what happens on the field.

[Matt39]

The second pick in the draft in 2021 is off limits everyone. 

[Jetsfan80]

23 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

The second pick in the draft in 2021 is off limits everyone. 

Ryan Leaf-level bust entering year 3 of his career and we’re already beating a dead horse. 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

On 8/4/2023 at 4:32 AM, Dunnie said:

Are you sure that was last night ? Not sure... Just glad his arrow is pointed up at the moment .. nice bomb .. no ints ... better in the pocket ... no dirtballs ... He left some hope on the limited time he was in ... He may develop into something given the time and guidance. The talent is obvious.

I would.have preferred not to see the pirouette out of the pocket ... And he needs to develop more touch on the short stuff .. but far from terrible.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

It was his only bad play and was a flashback to his playing scared last year.  He felt a bit of pressure from the left and stepped up (great!), but as soon as the brown jersey flashed in front of him he spun out of the pocket.  That d-lineman was no immediate threat and it happened just as Zach's third read was breaking open.  He's got to stop panicking. 

[NIGHT STALKER]

We have a bunch of crepe hangers on this board...they ain't happy unless they're bitching about something.  Just can't seem to let go even if so far they're way off base with their criticism.  

[JKlecko]

4 hours ago, slats said:

They went out and got Rodgers because he was the best QB available, far better than Derek Carr can ever hope to become. It looks like he’s here for at least two years, and maybe more. Zach is under contract for two more years, and then he’s gone. The only reason he’s a part of their plans right now is because his contract is fully guaranteed and his trade value at the end of last season was dog ****. The hope/plan now is that he’s an adequate backup for the next year or two and then either JD finds some unsuspecting trade partner like Matt Rhule again, or he’ll walk in free agency and the Jets will take their comp pick - if his next contract even qualifies for one. 

I agree that Rodgers is much better than Carr, and I wanted Rodgers.  We'll see about the rest. The odds are against his staying, but things change, and people overcome huge odds every day.

[JKlecko]

15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

It’s just weird that you guys have concluded that the trade for and signing of Hall of Famer Aaron Rodgers is part of some five year master plan to resuscitate the career of Zach Wilson—one of the statistically worst QB busts in the history of the sport. It’s like watching your wife leave you for Jason Momoa and thinking “this will ultimately be good for our relationship.”

Zach didn't start out horribly.  His play devolved because of how he was handled.  He has a ton of talent.  Stats alone don't tell the story.

[JKlecko]

1 hour ago, NIGHT STALKER said:

We have a bunch of crepe hangers on this board...they ain't happy unless they're bitching about something.  Just can't seem to let go even if so far they're way off base with their criticism.  

It's that way on every Jets fan site I've ever been on going back to the late '90s.

[Joe W. Namath]

Another great day of practice from zach wilson.  Matching rodgers throw for throw.  So exciting for us jet fans!!!!

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

Zach didn't start out horribly.  His play devolved because of how he was handled.  He has a ton of talent.  Stats alone don't tell the story.

Stats compiled over a long enough period of time do, in fact, tell a story. 

[slimjasi]

12 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

It's that way on every Jets fan site I've ever been on going back to the late '90s.

I know, right!?!?!?!?
 

Jets fans act like their team usually s*cks d*ck 

 

oh wait . . . 

[slimjasi]

15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

It’s just weird that you guys have concluded that the trade for and signing of Hall of Famer Aaron Rodgers is part of some five year master plan to resuscitate the career of Zach Wilson—one of the statistically worst QB busts in the history of the sport. It’s like watching your wife leave you for Jason Momoa and thinking “this will ultimately be good for our relationship.”

[JKlecko]

On 8/5/2023 at 8:55 PM, T0mShane said:

How are you saying something it “utter BS” and following it up with “imo.” It’s a statistical fact that Zach is 1. Bad from the pocket and 2. Inaccurate outside of the pocket. The only place where Zach performs at a statistically competent level are downs on which he 1. doesn’t face pressure and 2. gets the ball off under 2.5 seconds and 3. Is throwing against zone coverage. Regrettably, other teams know this, so they don’t provide him with many of those opportunities. As far as “believing in him,” what do you predict his next contract will look like? Presuming Rodgers plays this year and next, then retires, he initiates a $49 million dollar dead cap hit going into 2025. Do you think the Jets are going to extend Zach to a Jordan Love-type deal ($20mm/1 yr) on top of what they’re locked into with Rodgers? No way. If Zach were to somehow improve enough that the franchise considers him salvageable two years from now, it’s not going to be in his interests to re-sign here for a prove-it deal anyway. 

It's easy saying that because you're throwing out blanket statements like they're facts that can't possibly change.  Yes, statistically he has been very bad, but that doesn't mean that he can't turn things around and one needs to look at why he has been so bad.  It's not a matter of his not being very talented.  Posters who are trying to claim that either know nothing about football and evaluating talent, they have some agenda, or it's just hyperbole.

I believe that there are very valid reasons why Zach played so poorly.  Part of them are on Zach, but mostly it's on JD, Saleh and MLF.  I thought his rookie season that he was going out socializing too much rather than focusing on learning and getting better. He was also more than a little immature.  JD has admitted that he and the CS totally mishandled Zach.  He acknowledged that he should have had a decent veteran QB here to start for a year or two while Zach sat and learned.

Following are the ways in which I believe JD, Saleh and MLF screwed up.

1. JD hiring Saleh instead of Brian Daboll (I don't remember their being another candidate who had been an OC and had a background  of developing QB)s. The best teams don't draft a rookie QB at the top of the draft and then throw him to the wolves, with no talent around him, and rookie coaches at ALL the key positions.  That was just flat out stupid.  I don't think Greg Knapp would have made that much of a difference, either, because MLF was rigid and was gonna do whatever he wanted.  Knapp would have had no authority over MLF. It was a lame effort on JD's part to try to make the situation better for Zach, but it was too little.

2. JD allowing Saleh to hire MLF as the OC and Rob Calabrese as the QB Coach. Great, so you have a rookie HC with a defensive background who has never worked with a QB before, and he hires one of his best friend's little brother who has had zero experience as an OC, calling plays or working with/developing QBs, and he hires a rookie QB Coach. If they had the attitude that I've heard quoted that they'd all grow up together, then they're delusional and stupid.

3. MLF running the WCO rather than picking a scheme that fit Zach's talents, or adapting the WCO to what Zach did well. Zach's footwork was not right for the WCO, and the style in which Zach played at BYU was 180 degrees different from how MLF and Saleh wanted Zach to play and what the WCO demands from a QB.  With that being the case, Zach should never have started his rookie season.  One cannot fix fundamentals while one is playing.  That takes focused, disciplined work, and time for the changes to become habitual, which one can't do when one is preparing to play each week.  If one tries to think about those fundamentals while one is playing, it's not going to go well.  Under pressure, players revert to old habit, and thinking about fundamentals slows one down, and one doesn't play loose and free allowing one's talent to take over.  Changing a mental approach/philosophy of playing takes time, just as changing fundamentals does.  If they thought Zach could make those changes, they should have had a veteran QB for him to watch and learn from while he was working on making the necessary changes that he needed to make to succeed in the WCO.

4.  MLF's negativity, ridigidity, and his admitting that early in Zach's rookie season he was trying to get Zach to exploit weaknesses in their opponent's secondary each week.  That's something you expect a seasoned veteran in the scheme to do, not a rookie who's just learning the WCO, which is notoriously complex.  That was totally stupid.

5. When they drafted Zach, they said that he wouldn't have to carry the team, that the team would carry him, yet that's exactly the position they placed him in (having to carry the team) because there was very little talent around him his rookie season.  He had to run for his life many times when he dropped back to pass, and his WRs weren't getting open or were dropping passes in bunches.

6. All of the above took a toll on Zach's psyche and confidence.  I believe that he lost confidence in the CS, in the scheme and in himself. That and his fundamentals are what made his accuracy go horribly awry.  Football had stopped being fun.  He was having to think too much, trying not to make mistakes (which leads to mistakes), and pressing, which again results in poor play.  Anyone who has watched the NFL for more than 5 minutes should know the detrimental effect of when players are having to think too much and start pressing.  They should have benched him earlier.  They kept trotting him out there somehow expecting things to magically change.  They fit the definition of insanity of continuing to do things in the same way that weren't working and expecting a different result

In short, they totally had no clue how to handle or develop a young QB that wasn't a natural fit for their scheme.  Rather than putting him in a position to succeed, they put him in a position to fail, and that's what he has done so far. It would have taken a superhuman effort on Zach's part to have still succeeded.  Very few QBs can thrive in a situation like that.

 

[Dunnie]

My hope is that once the season starts we all.forget Zach while he continues to improve behind the scenes, developing into the QB he was labelled as coming out of school.

Whether he's with the Jets or traded to another team. ... I'd like to see the kid succeed. Hopefully, if he becomes something special the Jets don't trade him away .. but we have no control over that .... we have to trust JD and the FO.

Till then .. support the kid and enjoy the twilight to the career of one of the best to ever put on a helmet. 5 more weeks.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Dcat]

Quote

Let’s never stop talking about Zach Wilson

At least it keeps Jamaal Adams off the thread titles.

[T0mShane]

25 minutes ago, JKlecko said:

Part of them are on Zach, but mostly it's on JD, Saleh and MLF

I’m not going to go point by point with you because you can make the “[Bust QB] would have been better if he went to the right environment” about literally every QB who’s busted. It’s all academic at this point, especially now that Rodgers is here for, hopefully, multiple seasons. The major problem for Zach Wilson—and all the metrics bear this out—is that he can’t function under the pressure of a pass rush, and that’s a do or die skill in the NFL. It’s fun that he’s making some throws in practice this season, but it’s meaningless to call it “improvement” until there’s a threat of Zach getting hit. We know he played in a mush college offense where he was almost never pressured, and the few times he was, he sh*t his pants. We know that he sh*ts his pants under pressure now. There is no coaching technique that turns a guy who hates contact into a guy that can handle contact. You can put a fork in this tiny dudebro from the Utah burbs. 

[rex-n-effect]

I expect JD will take advantage of Rodgers and his willingness to mentor to pick up another QB high in the draft next offseason. That will all but close the door on ZW with the Jets absent some insane improvement this year. 

[slats]

4 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

I expect JD will take advantage of Rodgers and his willingness to mentor to pick up another QB high in the draft next offseason. That will all but close the door on ZW with the Jets absent some insane improvement this year. 

No way. The Jets will not draft a QB high as long as Aaron wants to play here. They will be drafting players to help Rodgers win now. 

[gdfodder]

Ryan Leaf-level bust entering year 3 of his career and we’re already beating a dead horse. 

You love that “beating a dead horse “ line, huh?


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[Hal]

 

 

 

I could keep going, but he’s not afraid of getting hit.