Brock Bowers value to the Jets

[bonkertons]

I was watching back this clip from the 2023 draft and it got me thinking about what could happen in 2024:

 

 

23:30

 

JD and Co were apparently so high on Michael Mayer that they had him as their #2 prospect of guys they thought could be there at 15, only behind McDonald and ahead of the kid everyone assumed we'd be desperate to draft, Broderick Jones.  That's extremely high, considering where Mayer ended up going.  The fact that we never addressed that spot tells me they didn't necessarily see TE as a need, but they liked Mayer enough to the point where they had to consider him at 15.

 

Which brings me to Bowers.  Right now the Jets are listed at the 10th or 11th pick depending on what mock you look at.  The one constant with these mocks are that both elite OTs are long gone by the time we pick, and I'd say in about 1/3 of them, Brock Bowers is still on the board.  Obviously a lot can change from now until April, but if things play out that way - ala Alt and Fashanu are gone, Williams and Maye are gone, and Marvin Harrison Jr. is gone - yet Bowers remains, would they pull the trigger on him?  I think you'd have to.  Either that or trade down, look to get another 2nd and maybe take one of the BPA WRs, then perhaps your Zach replacement in the 2nd.  If they stay put though, I think they'd have a hard time passing on a kid like this - especially considering how high they were on Mayer this past draft.

[JustInFudge]

If the Jets are sitting at the 10/11 spot and Bowers is on the board and they dont take him, I will be very angry and I will post vile things about this administration to display my disappointment w/ the world. 

So now I'm expecting this to happen.

[chirorob]

How many impact tight ends have been taken in the 1st round over the last 20 years?

No way I take a tight end at #10, 11.   The fact that Joe D wanted one at #15 when he went in the 2nd round doesn't really thrill me.

[bonkertons]

3 hours ago, chirorob said:

How many impact tight ends have been taken in the 1st round over the last 20 years?

No way I take a tight end at #10, 11.   The fact that Joe D wanted one at #15 when he went in the 2nd round doesn't really thrill me.

Yeah I don't think that really means sh*t.  Some of us wanted Jermaine Johnson at 10 and he slipped to like 26.  Sometimes guys just fall.  If Mayer ends up being the type of player he was hyped to be, I don't think anyone would have cared had we taken him at 15.

 

As far as Bowers goes, he's not exactly your typical TE prospect.  Some consider him the best TE prospect ever.  Definitely the most hyped since Kyle Pitts.  It's a weapon.  I wouldn't look at it any different than us drafting a WR.  In fact I'd prefer Bowers tbh to guys like Nabers/Egbuka/Coleman, considering the matchup nightmare he'd be, and how elite he is at both aspects of the position - blocking and receiving.  I really don't care about 1st round track records - if you are high on the kid and think he can be the next Kelce or even a Kittle/Hockenson/Andrews/Pitts, I have no problem with taking him.

[hmhertz]

Ruckit has better hands and is a superior blocker than Bowers and Mayer.

All he needs is the ability to uncover. I believe with working with Rodgers,

who I was no fan of going after, he develops the finesse to be a top TE

[Beerfish]

This is where the GM has to go to the coaches, head guy and oc and say.  'Listen assholes we are taking this guy if he is there, you better make sure you use him properly and a lot.'

I think the jets are talking an olineman or a WR.  I'd sure as hell take Bowers though.

[32EBoozer]

9 hours ago, bonkertons said:

I was watching back this clip from the 2023 draft and it got me thinking about what could happen in 2024:

 

 

23:30

 

JD and Co were apparently so high on Michael Mayer that they had him as their #2 prospect of guys they thought could be there at 15, only behind McDonald and ahead of the kid everyone assumed we'd be desperate to draft, Broderick Jones.  That's extremely high, considering where Mayer ended up going.  The fact that we never addressed that spot tells me they didn't necessarily see TE as a need, but they liked Mayer enough to the point where they had to consider him at 15.

 

Which brings me to Bowers.  Right now the Jets are listed at the 10th or 11th pick depending on what mock you look at.  The one constant with these mocks are that both elite OTs are long gone by the time we pick, and I'd say in about 1/3 of them, Brock Bowers is still on the board.  Obviously a lot can change from now until April, but if things play out that way - ala Alt and Fashanu are gone, Williams and Maye are gone, and Marvin Harrison Jr. is gone - yet Bowers remains, would they pull the trigger on him?  I think you'd have to.  Either that or trade down, look to get another 2nd and maybe take one of the BPA WRs, then perhaps your Zach replacement in the 2nd.  If they stay put though, I think they'd have a hard time passing on a kid like this - especially considering how high they were on Mayer this past draft.

If we only had a resident Georgia fan, whom we could ask…… Hmmmm

 

Calling @Lith

[Paradis]

10 hours ago, bonkertons said:

JD and Co were apparently so high on Michael Mayer that they had him as their #2 prospect of guys they thought could be there at 15, only behind McDonald

If true,, then fire them now. 

[Paradis]

8 hours ago, chirorob said:

How many impact tight ends have been taken in the 1st round over the last 20 years?

No way I take a tight end at #10, 11.   The fact that Joe D wanted one at #15 when he went in the 2nd round doesn't really thrill me.

Respectfully, stfu lol 

I get the point you're making, but Bowers is actually a heisman candidate right now. Like legit in the running behind the obvious fav C Williams.

TE... Heisman Candidate.

If that doesn't tell you how insanely talented he his, then try another sport. 

[bonkertons]

37 minutes ago, Paradis said:

If true,, then fire them now. 

Lol I mean, if you would have told me before the draft that one of Mayer or McDonald would go at 15, I would have guessed Mayer. Most mocks I saw had Mayer mid-late 1st, while McDonald was late 1st/early 2nd. 
 

Unless you’re just saying you really don’t like Mayer. In which case that’s fair I guess. Dude is built like a tank though so I get the appeal. 

[Paradis]

14 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Lol I mean, if you would have told me before the draft that one of Mayer or McDonald would go at 15, I would have guessed Mayer. Most mocks I saw had Mayer mid-late 1st, while McDonald was late 1st/early 2nd. 
 

Unless you’re just saying you really don’t like Mayer. In which case that’s fair I guess. Dude is built like a tank though so I get the appeal. 

Correct, Mayer is nowhere near deserving of that kind of love. He's the textbook definition/example of average high floor, moderate ceiling at best TE. I don't hate him, but he was a 3rd rounder, maybe late 2nd if you wanted a dependable all around decent TE. 

 

[JustInFudge]

On 10/11/2023 at 1:27 PM, chirorob said:

How many impact tight ends have been taken in the 1st round over the last 20 years?

No way I take a tight end at #10, 11.   The fact that Joe D wanted one at #15 when he went in the 2nd round doesn't really thrill me.

I'm not sure the initial question is fair or necessarily a strong argument against taking a TE in the 1st round.  The numbers are low because teams typically only have 3-4 on the roster and only 1 is typically of the receiving mold as most are used as blockers.  So over the last 20 years, the 1st round only average 1 TE per year.  Who has made an impact?  Quite a few.  TJ Hockenson is awesome.  IF Kyle Pitts had a QB, I think he'd be pretty awesome.  Engram, Nojku, Hurst, Heap, Shockey, Clark, Miller, Olsen, Watson, Graham, Winslow (prior to losing his mind).  That's actually a pretty decent percentage of impact players from a small group of selected. 

Bowers, is better then them all.

 

[bonkertons]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:56 PM, JiF said:

I'm not sure the initial question is fair or necessarily a strong argument against taking a TE in the 1st round.  The numbers are low because teams typically only have 3-4 on the roster and only 1 is typically of the receiving mold as most are used as blockers.  So over the last 20 years, the 1st round only average 1 TE per year.  Who has made an impact?  Quite a few.  TJ Hockenson is awesome.  IF Kyle Pitts had a QB, I think he'd be pretty awesome.  Engram, Nojku, Hurst, Heap, Shockey, Clark, Miller, Olsen, Watson, Graham, Winslow (prior to losing his mind).  That's actually a pretty decent percentage of impact players from a small group of selected. 

Bowers, is better then them all.

 

Shockey was so freaking good at his peak.  I could watch that dude play all day.  Such an underrated player.  I think if he were around in this age he'd be putting up some really big numbers.

 

...but yeah, I'd rather just look at the prospect and not really worry about "how many guys at this position have had success getting drafted here".  Doing that is basically putting Bowers on par with prospects of the past, which he's not.  It's unanimously agreed upon that he's one of, if not THE best TE prospect to ever enter the draft. 

[derp]

39 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

Shockey was so freaking good at his peak.  I could watch that dude play all day.  Such an underrated player.  I think if he were around in this age he'd be putting up some really big numbers.

 

...but yeah, I'd rather just look at the prospect and not really worry about "how many guys at this position have had success getting drafted here".  Doing that is basically putting Bowers on par with prospects of the past, which he's not.  It's unanimously agreed upon that he's one of, if not THE best TE prospect to ever enter the draft. 

How other highly drafted prospects have performed at the position is absolutely relevant. Obviously those who evaluate tight ends haven’t figured out what makes a good prospect at the position yet. Unless the criteria change, any high end prospect there needs an asterisk because it’s evident nobody really knows what they’re looking at.

To that end, how good a prospect Kyle Pitts was considered is getting brushed under the rug because of how he’s done in the NFL so far. He was the first position player drafted in what we knew was a loaded class at the time -  ahead of Chase, Waddle, Sewell, Devonta Smith, Parsons…if he’d hit I don’t think you’d be getting the Bowers is the best tight end prospect talk, but he hasn’t so far so some seem to kind of be pretending that pick didn’t happen. 

[JetsFanatic]

Brock Landers

 

[bonkertons]

8 hours ago, derp said:

How other highly drafted prospects have performed at the position is absolutely relevant. Obviously those who evaluate tight ends haven’t figured out what makes a good prospect at the position yet. Unless the criteria change, any high end prospect there needs an asterisk because it’s evident nobody really knows what they’re looking at.

To that end, how good a prospect Kyle Pitts was considered is getting brushed under the rug because of how he’s done in the NFL so far. He was the first position player drafted in what we knew was a loaded class at the time -  ahead of Chase, Waddle, Sewell, Devonta Smith, Parsons…if he’d hit I don’t think you’d be getting the Bowers is the best tight end prospect talk, but he hasn’t so far so some seem to kind of be pretending that pick didn’t happen. 

Pitts sure seems like a hit to me though so not really sure what we’re talking about.  

[derp]

5 hours ago, bonkertons said:

Pitts sure seems like a hit to me though so not really sure what we’re talking about.  

If Pitts is a hit for a tight end in that area of the draft then I definitely want absolutely no part of Bowers.

[Lith]

Ankle surgery today for Bowers.  No timetable yet for his return, but his college career may be over.  He is expected to recover fully, and there should be plenty of time for him to be ready for the draft process.

Sucks to lose him for the toughest part of our schedule, but what more does he have to prove at the college level.  

 

[JetsFanatic]

Ouch!

[Sammybighead]

We have a good 2 way TE. His name is ruckert. We never use him.

[kdels62]

On 10/14/2023 at 2:47 PM, derp said:

How other highly drafted prospects have performed at the position is absolutely relevant. Obviously those who evaluate tight ends haven’t figured out what makes a good prospect at the position yet. Unless the criteria change, any high end prospect there needs an asterisk because it’s evident nobody really knows what they’re looking at.

To that end, how good a prospect Kyle Pitts was considered is getting brushed under the rug because of how he’s done in the NFL so far. He was the first position player drafted in what we knew was a loaded class at the time -  ahead of Chase, Waddle, Sewell, Devonta Smith, Parsons…if he’d hit I don’t think you’d be getting the Bowers is the best tight end prospect talk, but he hasn’t so far so some seem to kind of be pretending that pick didn’t happen. 

Tight End is weirdly a position where you can just pick the best players based on combine numbers. Just pick a baseline counting stat, add RAS and it’s basically a guarantee of minimum performance.

[Beerfish]

On 10/11/2023 at 8:16 PM, Paradis said:

Respectfully, stfu lol 

I get the point you're making, but Bowers is actually a heisman candidate right now. Like legit in the running behind the obvious fav C Williams.

TE... Heisman Candidate.

If that doesn't tell you how insanely talented he his, then try another sport. 

In his defense pitts was a heisman guy as well and he has not been anywhere near the weapon he as supposed to be.

As i said above if you take one of these guys you had better be 100% sure your coach is going to use him as he should be used.

[Paradis]

23 hours ago, Beerfish said:

In his defense pitts was a heisman guy as well and he has not been anywhere near the weapon he as supposed to be.

As i said above if you take one of these guys you had better be 100% sure your coach is going to use him as he should be used.

iiiii dunno about that brother. Not like Bowers. 

Who by the way is now hurt and basically done till playoffs 

[Lith]

35 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Who by the way is no hurt and basically done till playoffs 

And it is all my fault.  Several years ago, I changed by avatar from Uga to Todd Gurley.  Within a couple of weeks Gurley tore his ACL and was done, so I went back to Uga.  A couple of seasons later, I changed from Uga to Nick Chubb.  And Chubb promptly tore up his knee.  So back to Uga as it has been since.

Then, a couple of weeks ago, after Bowers put the team on his back and almost singlehandedly beat Auburn, I did not want to tempt fate by changing my avatar, so this became the wallpaper on my laptop.

And now Brock is out.  When will I ever learn.  This is all on me.

[Paradis]

6 hours ago, Lith said:

And it is all my fault.  Several years ago, I changed by avatar from Uga to Todd Gurley.  Within a couple of weeks Gurley tore his ACL and was done, so I went back to Uga.  A couple of seasons later, I changed from Uga to Nick Chubb.  And Chubb promptly tore up his knee.  So back to Uga as it has been since.

Then, a couple of weeks ago, after Bowers put the team on his back and almost singlehandedly beat Auburn, I did not want to tempt fate by changing my avatar, so this became the wallpaper on my laptop.

And now Brock is out.  When will I ever learn.  This is all on me.

You fool, look what you've done! 

[bonkertons]

Do we see him slipping a bit because of this?  Only asking in the event we keep winning games.  Also some guy brought up Ruckert, who I love, but A) he's not Bowers and B ) I think you can run with two TEs a lot of the time.  Neither Conklin nor Uzomah are long-term answers IMO.  If I had to guess, Uzomah will be gone next offseason.  Conklin maybe the offseason after that.  Both Bowers and Ruckert excel in the blocking game, and both can make plays in the passing game - especially Bowers.

 

If we're talking about adding a weapon for Rodgers, I don't see how Bowers wouldn't at least be a consideration.  

[Lith]

10 hours ago, Paradis said:

You fool, look what you've done! 

[Lith]

51 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

Do we see him slipping a bit because of this?  Only asking in the event we keep winning games.  Also some guy brought up Ruckert, who I love, but A) he's not Bowers and B ) I think you can run with two TEs a lot of the time.  Neither Conklin nor Uzomah are long-term answers IMO.  If I had to guess, Uzomah will be gone next offseason.  Conklin maybe the offseason after that.  Both Bowers and Ruckert excel in the blocking game, and both can make plays in the passing game - especially Bowers.

 

If we're talking about adding a weapon for Rodgers, I don't see how Bowers wouldn't at least be a consideration.  

I don't see him slipping.  He should recover fully by 12/1 and be ready to go if we get to the SEC Championship.  If he chooses to play.

I am more concerned by his size.  I just don't know if he has prototypical NFL TE size.  He is listed at 6'4" 240, but he looks smaller than that to me.  If he does measure in at the Combine at that height/weight, and tests off the charts as I would expect, then I don't think the injury impacts his draft status.

[Beerfish]

Just how is he going to beat out CJ Uzomoah for snaps though????

[bonkertons]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

I don't see him slipping.  He should recover fully by 12/1 and be ready to go if we get to the SEC Championship.  If he chooses to play.

I am more concerned by his size.  I just don't know if he has prototypical NFL TE size.  He is listed at 6'4" 240, but he looks smaller than that to me.  If he does measure in at the Combine at that height/weight, and tests off the charts as I would expect, then I don't think the injury impacts his draft status.

He looks to have a similar build to Conklin IMO.  I think he's so good as a blocker that, even if he's at a size disadvantage in the NFL, he should still at least be passable in that regard.  Definitely not a liability.  Other than that I don't see his size or lack thereof affecting what he can do in the passing game.  

 

But maybe you're right though and his size results in him slipping a tad.  I certainly wouldn't complain if it results in us having a shot to take him. 

[Lith]

1 hour ago, bonkertons said:

He looks to have a similar build to Conklin IMO.  I think he's so good as a blocker that, even if he's at a size disadvantage in the NFL, he should still at least be passable in that regard.  Definitely not a liability.  Other than that I don't see his size or lack thereof affecting what he can do in the passing game.  

 

But maybe you're right though and his size results in him slipping a tad.  I certainly wouldn't complain if it results in us having a shot to take him. 

I think he was about 205 coming out of high school.  I don't think he has a big enough frame to have added 35 pounds, so I am very skeptical when I see him listed at 240.  I am sure his combine training will get his weight up, hopefully without sacrificing speed.   I would not be surprised if his true playing weight this season is below 230 which is still 20+ pounds less than Conklin. 

I think he is probably closer in size to Evan Engram than Conklin.  And Engram still went in the 20s, so even if he is a bit undersized, Bowers probably goes in the first half of the first round.  I still don't see us as a playoff team, so maybe we can be in position for him between 10 - 15.

 

 

[BklynJetsFan85]

Bowers would be a luxury pick... if you can trade back 2 or 3 without risking a tackle coming off the board - do that and get a 2nd rounder back or an extra 3rd. Think RT Taliese Fuaga will be there or RT JC Latham (both monsters at 6'6 335) .... they can still line up Becton at LT... and draft a depth piece in the 3rd or 4th. 

[kdels62]

18 hours ago, BklynJetsFan85 said:

Bowers would be a luxury pick... if you can trade back 2 or 3 without risking a tackle coming off the board - do that and get a 2nd rounder back or an extra 3rd. Think RT Taliese Fuaga will be there or RT JC Latham (both monsters at 6'6 335) .... they can still line up Becton at LT... and draft a depth piece in the 3rd or 4th. 

Getting a player that is simultaneously, the second best pass catcher, second best runner and a high end blocker with one draft pick is not a luxury, it’s smart. 

I have been one of the most anti-tight end people on this board for a while but this guy is a different prospect. 

[bonkertons]

6 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Getting a player that is simultaneously, the second best pass catcher, second best runner and a high end blocker with one draft pick is not a luxury, it’s smart. 

I have been one of the most anti-tight end people on this board for a while but this guy is a different prospect. 

Agreed 100%.  Even still though if we want to go RT I don't think it would be wise to trade down.  Just take the guy you want and don't **** around.  

 

For me, guys like Alt, Olu and Nabers would be the automatic picks if they somehow last til 10.  Other than that I'd have to strongly consider who to take between Bowers, Odunze, and Fuaga.  Bowers just might be my favorite at the moment though.

[jetsons]

On 10/11/2023 at 12:14 PM, bonkertons said:

I was watching back this clip from the 2023 draft and it got me thinking about what could happen in 2024:

 

 

23:30

 

JD and Co were apparently so high on Michael Mayer that they had him as their #2 prospect of guys they thought could be there at 15, only behind McDonald and ahead of the kid everyone assumed we'd be desperate to draft, Broderick Jones.  That's extremely high, considering where Mayer ended up going.  The fact that we never addressed that spot tells me they didn't necessarily see TE as a need, but they liked Mayer enough to the point where they had to consider him at 15.

 

Which brings me to Bowers.  Right now the Jets are listed at the 10th or 11th pick depending on what mock you look at.  The one constant with these mocks are that both elite OTs are long gone by the time we pick, and I'd say in about 1/3 of them, Brock Bowers is still on the board.  Obviously a lot can change from now until April, but if things play out that way - ala Alt and Fashanu are gone, Williams and Maye are gone, and Marvin Harrison Jr. is gone - yet Bowers remains, would they pull the trigger on him?  I think you'd have to.  Either that or trade down, look to get another 2nd and maybe take one of the BPA WRs, then perhaps your Zach replacement in the 2nd.  If they stay put though, I think they'd have a hard time passing on a kid like this - especially considering how high they were on Mayer this past draft.

From other sources the Jets were very interested in drafting Jahmyr Gibbs if he was still on the board at 15 …

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10074290-jets-rumors-jahmyr-gibbs-was-eyed-at-no-15-before-lions-selected-alabama-rb