Zach is the problem, not Penalties.

[T0mShane]

58 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I agree, it’s odd and it’s been like that since his rookie year. You hear these stories of him blowing off chances to meet Drew Brees or Joe Namath and you see stuff about how he carried himself at the draft and you wonder if he’s just an entitled prick who earned a really bad reputation early on. Obviously his play has earned the scorn but I completely agree that he doesn’t get “protected” the way a lot of young players do in the media.

It’s because Zach is not a dude. Fitzpatrick brought this up last year after interviewing Justin Herbert and coming away deeply unimpressed—your quarterback has to have a regular-guy swagger, or at least some big dick energy. Zach is a nice kid, but he’s also an absolute herb from the suburbs of Utah. Mike White was a dude. People want to hang out with those guys. Zach wasn’t anywhere to be found this offseason when Rodgers was taking his teammates on field trips. Two years ago when Jets players were partying at Islanders games, Zach Wilson brought his dad along. No one wants that guy arounf. You ever go to a bachelor party at a strip club and the future-wife’s younger brother tags along and you’re packed in the bathroom with your boys snorting Ritalin-plus off the sink and the younger brother dude walks in and everyone stops to look at him and at the end of the night Tony has to take that dude off to the side and explain to him what he’s allowed to remember from the previous eight hours and, by the way bro, let me delete some photos on your phone real quick because we saw you taking some pictures that probably won’t be cool? That’s Zach Wilson. Not a dude.

[doitny]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

It’s because Zach is not a dude. Fitzpatrick brought this up last year after interviewing Justin Herbert and coming away deeply unimpressed—your quarterback has to have a regular-guy swagger, or at least some big dick energy. Zach is a nice kid, but he’s also an absolute herb from the suburbs of Utah. Mike White was a dude. People want to hang out with those guys. Zach wasn’t anywhere to be found this offseason when Rodgers was taking his teammates on field trips. Two years ago when Jets players were partying at Islanders games, Zach Wilson brought his dad along. No one wants that guy arounf. You ever go to a bachelor party at a strip club and the future-wife’s younger brother tags along and you’re packed in the bathroom with your boys snorting Ritalin-plus off the sink and the younger brother dude walks in and everyone stops to look at him and at the end of the night Tony has to take that dude off to the side and explain to him what he’s allowed to remember from the previous eight hours and, by the way bro, let me delete some photos on your phone real quick because we saw you taking some pictures that probably won’t be cool? That’s Zach Wilson. Not a dude.

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

LOL 

CJ Stroud 3 straight games over 350 yards passing.

His WR1 Collins didn’t even dress vs Bengals last week.

Tank Dell is a 5’10” 155 rookie with no catch radius.

His RB1 Dameon Pierce has done next to nothing all year.

It’s not always complicated.

Kapono has been bad because that’s what he is.

[TuscanyTile2]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Another TS Podcast snippet share because my life is rich and full, but chalk up another few data points on the “Ex player analysts who are outright disgusted by Zach Wilson’s continued presence in the league.”

Andrew Whitworth and Ryan Fitzpatrick being interviewed on PMT about the state of play in the league, etc. They’re asked generally about how blame gets divided up when an OL is bad and the QB is struggling, and whose fault it really is. Specifically, they are asked about Zach Wilson with the Jets. They give the usual answer about having the OC work around it by finding out what the QB “does well” vs what the OL can handle—is it the type of QB that likes to climb the pocket? Does he like to move? Does he take deep drops? Whitworth, bringing it back to Zach, just kills him—says it’s impossible to “buy in” with Zach because he has “no feel” for the game, and nobody knows what he does well. Fitzpatrick is asked about Zach taking huge losses on sacks, and Fitzpatrick compares it to Justin Fields (while also acknowledging that Zach had been better at it until recently). They end this part of the conversation by saying how, by comparison, Will Levis looks so much better and what big fans they are of Levis because of how he understands pocket movement etc. 

“Good post, Tom, you loser. Maybe read a book?” I know, yes, true. But I’ve been absolutely fascinated by the outright scorn these analysts have dumped at Zach Wilson’s feet and 1. The underpinnings of that scorn because it sounds personal and 2. Why these analysts feel so free to outright sh*t on Zach Wilson when they’re normally so cautious with their criticism of young players. 
 

1:32:00-1:38(?)ish

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pardon-my-take/id1089022756?i=1000635146909

2 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I agree, it’s odd and it’s been like that since his rookie year. You hear these stories of him blowing off chances to meet Drew Brees or Joe Namath and you see stuff about how he carried himself at the draft and you wonder if he’s just an entitled prick who earned a really bad reputation early on. Obviously his play has earned the scorn but I completely agree that he doesn’t get “protected” the way a lot of young players do in the media.

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

It’s because Zach is not a dude. Fitzpatrick brought this up last year after interviewing Justin Herbert and coming away deeply unimpressed—your quarterback has to have a regular-guy swagger, or at least some big dick energy. Zach is a nice kid, but he’s also an absolute herb from the suburbs of Utah. Mike White was a dude. People want to hang out with those guys. Zach wasn’t anywhere to be found this offseason when Rodgers was taking his teammates on field trips. Two years ago when Jets players were partying at Islanders games, Zach Wilson brought his dad along. No one wants that guy arounf. You ever go to a bachelor party at a strip club and the future-wife’s younger brother tags along and you’re packed in the bathroom with your boys snorting Ritalin-plus off the sink and the younger brother dude walks in and everyone stops to look at him and at the end of the night Tony has to take that dude off to the side and explain to him what he’s allowed to remember from the previous eight hours and, by the way bro, let me delete some photos on your phone real quick because we saw you taking some pictures that probably won’t be cool? That’s Zach Wilson. Not a dude.

It's a fascinating question.  Nothing tells that story more than the Rodney Harrison interview with Chris Jones after we played KC.  Jones said something about Zach being a star on the rise while Harrison said Zach was trash.  WTAF kind of thing was that to say about a young QB?!?!

There is so much hate for Zach by analysts and you're 100% right that you don't really ever hear this about anybody else.  I agree that Zach doesn't come off as a "dude" like MFW does (who might be one of the greats in that category).  A Mormon from Utah doesn't fit the mold of an "NFL dawg".  The whole "he's entitled" thing doesn't feel like the right explanation to me either. Other than last season when he said the offense didn't let the defense down, it feels like he's been a good citizen and a hard worker who legitimately wants to get better.  The word "entitled" doesn't accurately describe ZW, imo.  That feels like the right adjective for Josh Rosen.

And to say "nobody knows what he does well" about Zach seems absurd.  He has a great arm, is a great scrambler, and can throw on the run and from odd angles.  Did Whitworth not watch the Raider game?  I'll say it again.  There were several plays that Zach made that were borderline spectacular.  If any other QB made them, it would be talked about in a positive way by the media.  Instead, all we get is "he stinks and does nothing well". 

I don't think I've ever seen anything like this.  Maybe I'm crazy for defending Zach like this but I really think he's showing much better signs this year and I'm extremely impressed that he's doing this despite getting negativity from every direction.  It makes me root for him even more.  It would be such a great story if he overcame it all.

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It's a fascinating question.  Nothing tells that story more than the Rodney Harrison interview with Chris Jones after we played KC.  Jones said something about Zach being a star on the rise while Harrison said Zach was trash.  WTAF kind of thing was that to say about a young QB?!?!

There is so much hate for Zach by analysts and you're 100% right that you don't really ever hear this about anybody else.  I agree that Zach doesn't come off as a "dude" like MFW does (who might be one of the greats in that category).  A Mormon from Utah doesn't fit the mold of an "NFL dawg".  The whole "he's entitled" thing doesn't feel like the right explanation to me either. Other than last season when he said the offense didn't let the defense down, it feels like he's been a good citizen and a hard worker who legitimately wants to get better.  The word "entitled" doesn't accurately describe ZW, imo.  That feels like the right adjective for Josh Rosen.

And to say "nobody knows what he does well" about Zach seems absurd.  He has a great arm, is a great scrambler, and can throw on the run and from odd angles.  Did Whitworth not watch the Raider game?  I'll say it again.  There were several plays that Zach made that were borderline spectacular.  If any other QB made them, it would be talked about in a positive way by the media.  Instead, all we get is "he stinks and does nothing well". 

I don't think I've ever seen anything like this.  Maybe I'm crazy for defending Zach like this but I really think he's showing much better signs this year and I'm extremely impressed that he's doing this despite getting negativity from every direction.  It makes me root for him even more.  It would be such a great story if he overcame it all.

But he’s not a “great scrambler,” he’s statistically terrible outside of the pocket, and while he has plus arm strength, he has poor deep accuracy so it doesn’t really matter. Ultimately, I think Zach Wilson is getting killed by these guys because—despite being bad for three years—he’s still being gifted with a starting job which he’s using to ruin the careers of everyone else on the team. As far as the highlight throws, Zach has thrown 931 passes that have counted. How many of those do you remember as high-level, highlight throws? 5? 

[TuscanyTile2]

22 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

But he’s not a “great scrambler,” he’s statistically terrible outside of the pocket, and while he has plus arm strength, he has poor deep accuracy so it doesn’t really matter. Ultimately, I think Zach Wilson is getting killed by these guys because—despite being bad for three years—he’s still being gifted with a starting job which he’s using to ruin the careers of everyone else on the team. As far as the highlight throws, Zach has thrown 931 passes that have counted. How many of those do you remember as high-level, highlight throws? 5? 

Zach was absolute dogsh-t his first 2 years but I'm treating year 3 ZW differently.  Are the stats you're looking at showing year 3 Zach only?

What stats show he's terrible outside of the pocket (this year)?  And how much of that is on our horrible WRs (other than GW, of course)?  

IIRC, Zach threw 2 long passes against the Raiders.  One he overthrew Malik Taylor by like 5 yards, but Taylor was absolutely blanketed on the play.  The other was a perfectly thrown pass that GW dropped.

I agree he hasn't done a good job at quickly going through his progressions but his supporting cast has never made things easy for him to allow him to gain some confidence and get into a flow.  That's what I want to see.  Can he succeed given the right supporting cast?  My hunch is that he can.  

EDIT: The fact that we're looking into Robbie Chosen tells us everything we need to know about how bad the Jets view their WRs, imo.

[TuscanyTile2]

Micah Parsons and Matt Leinart are 2 players (one being a former player) who criticized Rodney Harrison for his comments, btw.

https://nypost.com/2023/10/02/rodney-harrison-apologizes-to-zach-wilson-for-calling-him-garbage/

[Matt39]

59 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It's a fascinating question.  Nothing tells that story more than the Rodney Harrison interview with Chris Jones after we played KC.  Jones said something about Zach being a star on the rise while Harrison said Zach was trash.  WTAF kind of thing was that to say about a young QB?!?!

There is so much hate for Zach by analysts and you're 100% right that you don't really ever hear this about anybody else.  I agree that Zach doesn't come off as a "dude" like MFW does (who might be one of the greats in that category).  A Mormon from Utah doesn't fit the mold of an "NFL dawg".  The whole "he's entitled" thing doesn't feel like the right explanation to me either. Other than last season when he said the offense didn't let the defense down, it feels like he's been a good citizen and a hard worker who legitimately wants to get better.  The word "entitled" doesn't accurately describe ZW, imo.  That feels like the right adjective for Josh Rosen.

And to say "nobody knows what he does well" about Zach seems absurd.  He has a great arm, is a great scrambler, and can throw on the run and from odd angles.  Did Whitworth not watch the Raider game?  I'll say it again.  There were several plays that Zach made that were borderline spectacular.  If any other QB made them, it would be talked about in a positive way by the media.  Instead, all we get is "he stinks and does nothing well". 

I don't think I've ever seen anything like this.  Maybe I'm crazy for defending Zach like this but I really think he's showing much better signs this year and I'm extremely impressed that he's doing this despite getting negativity from every direction.  It makes me root for him even more.  It would be such a great story if he overcame it all.

Zach was coddled. Stayed home for college. Enmeshed family that does everything together as adults. Zach never moved to the east coast full time for the job. Uncle is a billionaire who is friends with Woody. Was never going to work in the locker room. Zach seems like a nice kid, he’s just not a dude as Tom said.

[TuscanyTile2]

 

[Larz]

Suck it haters 

[TuscanyTile2]

9 minutes ago, Larz said:

Suck it haters 

An absolutely incredible pass (that our pathetic WR2 juggled like a clown) but "ZaCh Is ThE wOrSt QB eVeR".

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, T0mShane said:

You ever go to a bachelor party at a strip club and the future-wife’s younger brother tags along and you’re packed in the bathroom with your boys snorting Ritalin-plus off the sink and the younger brother dude walks in and everyone stops to look at him and at the end of the night Tony has to take that dude off to the side and explain to him what he’s allowed to remember from the previous eight hours and, by the way bro, let me delete some photos on your phone real quick because we saw you taking some pictures that probably won’t be cool?

This is all awfully specific.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 Maybe I'm crazy for defending Zach like this

Yes

[Matt39]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 Two years ago when Jets players were partying at Islanders games, Zach Wilson brought his dad along. No one wants that guy arounf. 

Meanwhile our dads:

 

[Larz]

[Yeetin It]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

It’s because Zach is not a dude. Fitzpatrick brought this up last year after interviewing Justin Herbert and coming away deeply unimpressed—your quarterback has to have a regular-guy swagger, or at least some big dick energy. Zach is a nice kid, but he’s also an absolute herb from the suburbs of Utah. Mike White was a dude. People want to hang out with those guys. Zach wasn’t anywhere to be found this offseason when Rodgers was taking his teammates on field trips. Two years ago when Jets players were partying at Islanders games, Zach Wilson brought his dad along. No one wants that guy arounf. You ever go to a bachelor party at a strip club and the future-wife’s younger brother tags along and you’re packed in the bathroom with your boys snorting Ritalin-plus off the sink and the younger brother dude walks in and everyone stops to look at him and at the end of the night Tony has to take that dude off to the side and explain to him what he’s allowed to remember from the previous eight hours and, by the way bro, let me delete some photos on your phone real quick because we saw you taking some pictures that probably won’t be cool? That’s Zach Wilson. Not a dude.

Bro do you need to talk about that night? We’re always here for you if you do.

[Larz]

 

[Warfish]

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

And to say "nobody knows what he does well" about Zach seems absurd.  He has a great arm

He has great arm strength for a guy his size.

He had poor to average arm accuracy, touch and (I'd wager) does not throw a terribly catchable ball (i.e. he's always low, high, behind or way ahead his receivers).

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

, is a great scrambler,

No he isn't.  

He has horrible pocket feel, he does not have a good head-clock nor does he instinctually feel pressure well (leading to all those sacks and fumbles).

What he does have is some measure of escapabillity.  It's just 50/50 if we're going to get the ballet dancer pirouette backwards "scramble" that results in a bad sack, or the much better 5-15 yard run scramble (which he doesn't do enough, and doesn't look confortable doing).

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

and can throw on the run and from odd angles.

Relying on the occasional school-yard "Off platform throws" is no way to play QB when you can't do the basics (timing routes, slants, TE Outs, flats passes, etc) well or accurately.

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 There were several plays that Zach made that were borderline spectacular.

Your threshold for "spectacular" must be very low.  I honestly have to wonder if you ever watch other QB's.

DC's Howell is like #2 in the league in passing, is a better thrower and runner than Zach, and no one here uses the word "spectacular" to describe him.  

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

  If any other QB made them, it would be talked about in a positive way by the media.  Instead, all we get is "he stinks and does nothing well".

Because where you see one good or even great throw, everyone else sees the whole picture, dead last in passing every year, dead last in comp. % every year, just bad metrics all over the place.  Metrics he primarily controls and is responsible for.

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I don't think I've ever seen anything like this.

Fans here said the same thing abut Sanchez.  And about Geno.  And about Darnold.

They were unfairly treated.  Fans were too negative.  Media was too unfair.  People ignored their great plays.  And their improvement.  And it was always the WR's fault.  The O-line's fault.  The Coaches fault.  They were "good kids".  They were "only 22, or 23, or 26".  Same, same, same, same, same.  

So yeah, we've seen it before, because we've had bad QB's homers homer for before.

3 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Maybe I'm crazy for defending Zach like this but I really think he's showing much better signs this year and I'm extremely impressed that he's doing this despite getting negativity from every direction.  It makes me root for him even more.  It would be such a great story if he overcame it all.

Not crazy I'd guess.  Just a Zach homer, a true-believer, for whatever reason (only you could know for sure).

But what I would say is you are entirely subjective about what you're seeing from Zach Wilson.  You're on an Island with a few other homer fans, and a few media guys who (in many cases) are rooting for Zach to justify their own previous claims re: him during the draft or otherwise.  

Again, I really have to wonder how you'd feel right now if we had what DC has in Sam Howell, given all the fluff you blow over the worst QB in the NFL the past three years, and one of the worst starting QB's in NFL history in Wilson.

[AFJF]

5 hours ago, T0mShane said:

It’s because Zach is not a dude. Fitzpatrick brought this up last year after interviewing Justin Herbert and coming away deeply unimpressed—your quarterback has to have a regular-guy swagger, or at least some big dick energy. Zach is a nice kid, but he’s also an absolute herb from the suburbs of Utah. Mike White was a dude. People want to hang out with those guys. Zach wasn’t anywhere to be found this offseason when Rodgers was taking his teammates on field trips. Two years ago when Jets players were partying at Islanders games, Zach Wilson brought his dad along. No one wants that guy arounf. You ever go to a bachelor party at a strip club and the future-wife’s younger brother tags along and you’re packed in the bathroom with your boys snorting Ritalin-plus off the sink and the younger brother dude walks in and everyone stops to look at him and at the end of the night Tony has to take that dude off to the side and explain to him what he’s allowed to remember from the previous eight hours and, by the way bro, let me delete some photos on your phone real quick because we saw you taking some pictures that probably won’t be cool? That’s Zach Wilson. Not a dude.

I often wonder why herb seems to have gone the way of the dodo.  Such an underrated term.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

He has great arm strength for a guy his size.

He had poor to average arm accuracy, touch and (I'd wager) does not throw a terribly catchable ball (i.e. he's always low, high, behind or way ahead his receivers).

No he isn't.  

He has horrible pocket feel, he does not have a good head-clock nor does he instinctually feel pressure well (leading to all those sacks and fumbles).

What he does have is some measure of escapabillity.  It's just 50/50 if we're going to get the ballet dancer pirouette backwards "scramble" that results in a bad sack, or the much better 5-15 yard run scramble (which he doesn't do enough, and doesn't look confortable doing).

Relying on the occasional school-yard "Off platform throws" is no way to play QB when you can't do the basics (timing routes, slants, TE Outs, flats passes, etc) well or accurately.

Your threshold for "spectacular" must be very low.  I honestly have to wonder if you ever watch other QB's.

DC's Howell is like #2 in the league in passing, is a better thrower and runner than Zach, and no one here uses the word "spectacular" to describe him.  

Because where you see one good or even great throw, everyone else sees the whole picture, dead last in passing every year, dead last in comp. % every year, just bad metrics all over the place.  

Fans here aid the same thing abut Sanchez.  And about Geno.  And about Darnold.

So yeah, we've seen it before, because we've had bad QB's homers homer for before.

Not crazy I'd guess.  Just a Zach homer, a true-believer, for whatever reason (only you could know for sure).

But what I would say is you are entirely subjective about what you're seeing from Zach Wilson.  You're on an Island with a few other homer fans, and a few media guys who (in many cases) are rooting for Zach to justify their own previous claims re: him during the draft or otherwise.  

Again, I really have to wonder how you'd feel right now if we had what DC has in Sam Howell, given all the fluff you blow over the worst QB in the NFL the past three years, and of of the worst starting QB's in NFL history in Wilson.

 

Quote

He has great arm strength for a guy his size.

There's absolutely no need to qualify it.  He has a rocket arm for a QB of any size.

 

Quote

He had poor to average arm accuracy, touch and (I'd wager) does not throw a terribly catchable ball (i.e. he's always low, high, behind or way ahead his receivers).

That's very true of years 1 and 2 ZW.  His accuracy has improved a lot in year 3.  Not saying he doesn't have a lot of room for improvement, just that he has come a long way.  Some of the bad passes I attribute to his OL.  Aikman killed him for this pass, while ignoring that the Bosa caused him to adjust the throw.  I realize this is only one example but this is a very high profile one that I've heard others (including Francesa) repeat.  He might not throw a "catchable ball" though because it does feel like there are an inordinate amount of drops.  He's like Elway in that he guns everything.  But his WRs have to (and should be able to) adjust.

 

Quote

He has horrible pocket feel, he does not have a good head-clock nor does he instinctually feel pressure well (leading to all those sacks and fumbles).

Fair complaint and I agree to an extent.  OTOH, he has a terrible OL (that has really been a disaster multiple times this season) and only 1 WR.  He probably is trying to make plays so he holds onto the ball, waiting for someone to shake free.  I think that's at least some of the explanation (at least that's part of why I'm giving him more slack than most on here are).

Quote

What he does have is some measure of escapabillity.  It's just 50/50 if we're going to get the ballet dancer pirouette backwards "scramble" that results in a bad sack, or the much better 5-15 yard run scramble (which he doesn't do enough, and doesn't look confortable doing).

We disagree on his running ability.  I think he could be a very effective runner (similar to Mahomes in that sense) but he's being coached to not run because they don't want him to risk injury.  I really think they need to let him let loose though.  If he was a threat to run more, defenses would have to put a spy on him and that might open things up for a WR.

 

Quote

Relying on the occasional school-yard "Off platform throws" is no way to play QB when you can't do the basics (timing routes, slants, TE Outs, flats passes, etc) well or accurately.

Agreed that this can't be his (or any QB's) "bread and butter".  But it's certainly nice that he has it in his arsenal.

Quote

Your threshold for "spectacular" must be very low.  I honestly have to wonder if you ever watch other QB's.

Nonsense.  Rewatch his throws vs the Raiders.  If you're being objective you'll know exactly what I'm referring to.  

Quote

Because where you see one good or even great throw, everyone else sees the whole picture, dead last in passing every year, dead last in comp. % every year, just bad metrics all over the place.  

Years 1 and 2 I would've agreed with you 100%.  I think things are different this year.  Now I blame it on his supporting cast (e.g. bad OL and only 1 WR).

Quote

Fans here aid the same thing abut Sanchez.  And about Geno.  And about Darnold.

So yeah, we've seen it before, because we've had bad QB's homers homer for before.

Not crazy I'd guess.  Just a Zach homer, a true-believer, for whatever reason (only you could know for sure).

But what I would say is you are entirely subjective about what you're seeing from Zach Wilson.  You're on an Island with a few other homer fans, and a few media guys who (in many cases) are rooting for Zach to justify their own previous claims re: him during the draft or otherwise.  

I don't see myself as a Zach homer at all.  I thought he was awful (and said so on this forum) his first 2 years.  Even going into this year I thought we were screwed when he took over.  But something changed at some point this year.  I definitely can't get the KC game out of my head.  I feel like he showed that he has it in him.  And they're a top defense in the NFL.

I admit I liked Darnold (and still am interested to see what he can do if he gets in there in SF) but even I've been disappointed in him.  I was not a big fan of either Geno or Sanchez (both who I wanted to be gone).  We're all subjective, btw, but I will say that I don't have some agenda where I said he'd be a great pick out of college.  IIRC, I wanted us to stick with Darnold (though I was definitely excited at the comparisons the "experts" were making when we first drafted him).

 

Quote

Again, I really have to wonder how you'd feel right now if we had what DC has in Sam Howell, given all the fluff you blow over the worst QB in the NFL the past three years, and of of the worst starting QB's in NFL history in Wilson.

I've barely seen him play.

[Matt39]

27 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

There's absolutely no need to qualify it.  He has a rocket arm for a QB of any size.

 

That's very true of years 1 and 2 ZW.  His accuracy has improved a lot in year 3.  Not saying he doesn't have a lot of room for improvement, just that he has come a long way.  Some of the bad passes I attribute to his OL.  Aikman killed him for this pass, while ignoring that the Bosa caused him to adjust the throw.  I realize this is only one example but this is a very high profile one that I've heard others (including Francesa) repeat.  He might not throw a "catchable ball" though because it does feel like there are an inordinate amount of drops.  He's like Elway in that he guns everything.  But his WRs have to (and should be able to) adjust.

 

Fair complaint and I agree to an extent.  OTOH, he has a terrible OL (that has really been a disaster multiple times this season) and only 1 WR.  He probably is trying to make plays so he holds onto the ball, waiting for someone to shake free.  I think that's at least some of the explanation (at least that's part of why I'm giving him more slack than most on here are).

We disagree on his running ability.  I think he could be a very effective runner (similar to Mahomes in that sense) but he's being coached to not run because they don't want him to risk injury.  I really think they need to let him let loose though.  If he was a threat to run more, defenses would have to put a spy on him and that might open things up for a WR.

 

Agreed that this can't be his (or any QB's) "bread and butter".  But it's certainly nice that he has it in his arsenal.

Nonsense.  Rewatch his throws vs the Raiders.  If you're being objective you'll know exactly what I'm referring to.  

Years 1 and 2 I would've agreed with you 100%.  I think things are different this year.  Now I blame it on his supporting cast (e.g. bad OL and only 1 WR).

I don't see myself as a Zach homer at all.  I thought he was awful (and said so on this forum) his first 2 years.  Even going into this year I thought we were screwed when he took over.  But something changed at some point this year.  I definitely can't get the KC game out of my head.  I feel like he showed that he has it in him.  And they're a top defense in the NFL.

I admit I liked Darnold (and still am interested to see what he can do if he gets in there in SF) but even I've been disappointed in him.  I was not a big fan of either Geno or Sanchez (both who I wanted to be gone).  We're all subjective, btw, but I will say that I don't have some agenda where I said he'd be a great pick out of college.  IIRC, I wanted us to stick with Darnold (though I was definitely excited at the comparisons the "experts" were making when we first drafted him).

 

I've barely seen him play.

If Wilson dedicated himself to the game relentlessly I’d see your optimism. He doesn’t. All of the talent doesn’t matter if he’s not obsessed with football and everything that comes with it- including being an adult at 24. It’s not for everyone.

[bitonti]

4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It's a fascinating question.  Nothing tells that story more than the Rodney Harrison interview with Chris Jones after we played KC.  Jones said something about Zach being a star on the rise while Harrison said Zach was trash.  WTAF kind of thing was that to say about a young QB?!?!

There is so much hate for Zach by analysts and you're 100% right that you don't really ever hear this about anybody else.  I agree that Zach doesn't come off as a "dude" like MFW does (who might be one of the greats in that category).  A Mormon from Utah doesn't fit the mold of an "NFL dawg".  The whole "he's entitled" thing doesn't feel like the right explanation to me either. Other than last season when he said the offense didn't let the defense down, it feels like he's been a good citizen and a hard worker who legitimately wants to get better.  The word "entitled" doesn't accurately describe ZW, imo.  That feels like the right adjective for Josh Rosen.

And to say "nobody knows what he does well" about Zach seems absurd.  He has a great arm, is a great scrambler, and can throw on the run and from odd angles.  Did Whitworth not watch the Raider game?  I'll say it again.  There were several plays that Zach made that were borderline spectacular.  If any other QB made them, it would be talked about in a positive way by the media.  Instead, all we get is "he stinks and does nothing well". 

I don't think I've ever seen anything like this.  Maybe I'm crazy for defending Zach like this but I really think he's showing much better signs this year and I'm extremely impressed that he's doing this despite getting negativity from every direction.  It makes me root for him even more.  It would be such a great story if he overcame it all.

Rodney Harrison was right 

[bitonti]

31 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

But something changed at some point this year.  I definitely can't get the KC game out of my head

He had a terrible first quarter a decent 2nd and 3rd and then with the game on the line in the 4th he fumbled a shotgun snap that hit him in the chest 

In what universe is that a good game? It's maybe good for Zach but they lost and it was his fault 

[Matt39]

He is unable to throw touchdowns. It’s really not more complex than that. He has one nice touchdown pass against the Titans as a rookie and that’s basically it. Incomprehensible really.

[Larz]

[JETS SB]

The obsession with our backup QB, by the same few, is laughable. And pathetic. 

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, JETS SB said:

The obsession with our backup QB, by the same few, is laughable. And pathetic. 

Are you one of the guys who are here to tell us we’re stupid for caring about the Jets? It seems like you’re that guy.

[JustInFudge]

5 minutes ago, JETS SB said:

The obsession with our backup QB, by the same few, is laughable. And pathetic. 

Some would say the same about your constant whining about Jets fans.  It's very bizarre behavior.  

[doitny]

46 minutes ago, Larz said:

he finds 2 passes per game that were good throws. sure he can make a good throw or 2 a game. no newsflash here.

the funny thing in this video is that Lazzard caught at least 4 of those passes. so if your just watching this video you think that Zach and Lazzard are both doing well this year..lol

[Jetsfan80]

54 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Are you one of the guys who are here to tell us we’re stupid for caring about the Jets? It seems like you’re that guy.

 

48 minutes ago, JiF said:

Some would say the same about your constant whining about Jets fans.  It's very bizarre behavior.  

Dude has all but like 5 posters on ignore at this point, supposedly, and complains about them all anyways.

[roscoeword]

Any scrambling or escapability he may have possessed seems to have been eliminated from his game, because i guess management has decided that he stay in the pocket until he gets sacked.. I guess they decided that at last this way, he won't run backwards. But he's become terribly boring this way, and can't even capitalize on the one skill he does seem to have - an ability to scramble.. 

 

[Jetsplayer21]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

It’s because Zach is not a dude. Fitzpatrick brought this up last year after interviewing Justin Herbert and coming away deeply unimpressed—your quarterback has to have a regular-guy swagger, or at least some big dick energy. Zach is a nice kid, but he’s also an absolute herb from the suburbs of Utah. Mike White was a dude. People want to hang out with those guys. Zach wasn’t anywhere to be found this offseason when Rodgers was taking his teammates on field trips. Two years ago when Jets players were partying at Islanders games, Zach Wilson brought his dad along. No one wants that guy arounf. You ever go to a bachelor party at a strip club and the future-wife’s younger brother tags along and you’re packed in the bathroom with your boys snorting Ritalin-plus off the sink and the younger brother dude walks in and everyone stops to look at him and at the end of the night Tony has to take that dude off to the side and explain to him what he’s allowed to remember from the previous eight hours and, by the way bro, let me delete some photos on your phone real quick because we saw you taking some pictures that probably won’t be cool? That’s Zach Wilson. Not a dude.

All good points 🤣To add, his football intelligence has to be the worst in NFL history. Also has smallest balls in NFL history. Have you ever seen zach take a legit shot ? We have seen Mike white, rodgers in Green Bay. That is because he is so self aware about “ not taking a hit.” Why he holds on to the ball instead of throwing it away. He can’t throw it away because he is already in the fetal position bracing for a hit like you would do going 90 in a car into car in front of you.. You will never see Zach let 1 go and then take a defenseless hit. He does not like physical contact at all and will go out of his way to avoid it.  Only if he had the awareness about everything else lol. 

[Larz]

[Jetsfan80]

11 minutes ago, roscoeword said:

Any scrambling or escapability he may have possessed seems to have been eliminated from his game, because i guess management has decided that he stay in the pocket until he gets sacked.. I guess they decided that at last this way, he won't run backwards. But he's become terribly boring this way, and can't even capitalize on the one skill he does seem to have - an ability to scramble.. 

 

He’s gotten injured every year he’s played.  Last time he did so by tripping on a blade of grass.  Scrambling is really not a strong skillset for him.

[cat999]

2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

If Wilson dedicated himself to the game relentlessly I’d see your optimism. He doesn’t. All of the talent doesn’t matter if he’s not obsessed with football and everything that comes with it- including being an adult at 24. It’s not for everyone.

Do you have any evidence to back up this opinion? All I've read about him is that he works diligently and tries very hard to do exactly what the coaches tell him to do, maybe to a fault.  I laughed at and get the ' not a dude' discussion, but seems like  he's giving it his all even if his all ain't good enough