the "rebuild"

[Bleedin Green]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The Jets were well on their way to a successful rebuild.

Except they weren't by any measure at all.

We're on year 5 of a rebuild and the team is just as bad, if not worse, throughout the overwhelming majority of the roster.  This past offseason certainly did not help the matter, but there was no real success in what had been going on for years before that.  That period quite literally featured two of the worst drafts in team history.

There are many teams throughout the league who started their respective rebuilds well after the Jets, and yet are already very far ahead of them.  Meanwhile, we're now on the third rebuild from this same front office, and every single one has been a disastrous failure.

[CanadaSteve]

14 hours ago, kmnj said:

 

If there are any Joe D fanboys left at this point? When are we going to see actual wins ?

 

It didn't go as well as we had hoped. As Forrest Gump said, "sh*t happens." 

Now, are there any SOJF who can't see that whichever GM we want fired after JD is let go will have been set up FAR better talent-wise than JD was?

[Green Ghost]

13 hours ago, Trotter said:

Secretly i hope you are a 5'5" 115lb redhead named Roxanne - cause if you are, what a wild ride you would be.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

Except they weren't by any measure at all.

We're on year 5 of a rebuild and the team is just as bad, if not worse, throughout the overwhelming majority of the roster.  This past offseason certainly did not help the matter, but there was no real success in what had been going on for years before that.  That period quite literally featured two of the worst drafts in team history.

There are many teams throughout the league who started their respective rebuilds well after the Jets, and yet are already very far ahead of them.  Meanwhile, we're now on the third rebuild from this same front office, and every single one has been a disastrous failure.

Garret Wilson

Breece Hall

Sauce Gardner

Jermaine Johnson

Quinnen Williams

Quincy Williams

Michael Carter II

AVT

The Jets added a lot of talent and that is on the road to a rebuild.

 

[Dunnie]

 

Garret Wilson
Breece Hall
Sauce Gardner
Jermaine Johnson
Quinnen Williams
Quincy Williams
Michael Carter II
AVT
The Jets added a lot of talent and that is on the road to a rebuild.
 

 

Offense
Breece
Garrett
I'll give you AVInjured

Defense
Sauce
Q
JFM
Q2
JJ
McD
MC2
Reed
Hall

Anyone else see a huge problem here ? Knucklehead meathead defensive coordinator that is incapable of building an offense.



Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 
 


Edited December 30, 2023 by Dunnie

[Bronx]

We got beat by Mac Jones and the Cheatriots this year, that was the sign for things to follow.  

[Rich Thornburgh]

18 hours ago, Biggs said:

This is a 10 to 12 win team with a top NFL coaching staff as is.

If we had signed a decent backup qb last offseason like Wentz or Brissett this is probably a 9 or 10 win team.  Thanks Woody

[Rich Thornburgh]

13 minutes ago, Bronx said:

We got beat by Mac Jones and the Cheatriots this year, that was the sign for things to follow.  

Belichick owns Zach.  But then again so does everyone who isn’t the Houston Texans

[Bronx]

2 hours ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

Belichick owns Zuck (Fixed)

and Droopy the Clown.  

[Raideraholic]

23 hours ago, PepPep said:

I'm glad you are jealous of the Browns. And hey, great story. Good for them. But with Flacco as their QB and all the injuries they have piled up, they are going to get stomped in the playoffs. If you want to get into the playoffs just to get stomped, great. I want to actually have a chance. 

The Jets are in win now mode. Its why they used precious draft picks on an aging HOF QB. The is no more 'rebuild' mode. 

While JD made some major mistakes this offseason, this team has been devastated by injuries. We all know this. I get these types of threads. Its frustration and that's fine. I'm a Jet fan. I live with frustration as far as this team is concerned my whole life. 

But we finally have a QB, this defense is stout and this offense has the critical pieces (star RB, star WR) to be productive. JD has a massive undertaking this offseason to rebuild the o-line, add a weapon at WR and rectify his mistake of not having a solid QB2 on the roster. This can be done. He is officially on the hot seat and will do whatever he can to accomplish this. He has a high draft pick, which will help. 

Pure BS. The goal is always to make the playoffs , because you get hot at the right time , anything can happen.   That’s better than sitting at home( season over)  waiting for the draft.      The Jets haven’t made the playoffs in a while , at some point you have to get in - so you can show your own players, and potential free agents that this is the place you want to be.( have chance to win a Championship) .

The Raiders win their last two there still a chance they can make the playoffs .   Yes I want to go to the playoffs because it’s a learning experience for a lot of young players.    That playing experience playing in a hostile environment,  on the road , is very beneficial for a team long term success. 
 

50 years later now the Jets are ready to win a championship - let’s make the playoffs now .   There are no guarantees once the playoffs start no matter what team you assembled .   Goal is to win your division , make the playoffs , and see where it takes you.   The Jets goal this season wasn’t getting seven wins again and missing the playoffs.

[AdrianMurrel]

On 12/29/2023 at 9:39 AM, PepPep said:

I'm glad you are jealous of the Browns. And hey, great story. Good for them. But with Flacco as their QB and all the injuries they have piled up, they are going to get stomped in the playoffs. If you want to get into the playoffs just to get stomped, great. I want to actually have a chance. 

The Jets are in win now mode. Its why they used precious draft picks on an aging HOF QB. The is no more 'rebuild' mode. 

While JD made some major mistakes this offseason, this team has been devastated by injuries. We all know this. I get these types of threads. Its frustration and that's fine. I'm a Jet fan. I live with frustration as far as this team is concerned my whole life. 

But we finally have a QB, this defense is stout and this offense has the critical pieces (star RB, star WR) to be productive. JD has a massive undertaking this offseason to rebuild the o-line, add a weapon at WR and rectify his mistake of not having a solid QB2 on the roster. This can be done. He is officially on the hot seat and will do whatever he can to accomplish this. He has a high draft pick, which will help. 

Rodgers is gonna be 41 next year. Brady being superhuman into his 40’s has kinda tricked people  into thinking every great QB should be playing at a high level into his 40’s.

The reality is Brady was a huge outlier just like his whole career was. 99 percent of QB’s are done once they reach Rodgers age.

 

Im not saying it’s impossible for Rodgers to do it but history isn’t on his side. There is a better chance he looks washed up next year then there is that he’s still gonna be playing at an extremely high level.

We’re REALLY rolling the dice next year 

 

 

 

 

[Bleedin Green]

8 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Garret Wilson

Breece Hall

Sauce Gardner

Jermaine Johnson

Quinnen Williams

Quincy Williams

Michael Carter II

AVT

The Jets added a lot of talent and that is on the road to a rebuild.

 

Quinnen was taken by Mac, and a high first rounder on an interior OL who can't play is hardly a success. A so-called "successful" rebuild takes a little more than a 50% hit rate on high firsts and almost nothing else.

[Dunnie]

Rodgers is gonna be 41 next year. Brady being superhuman into his 40’s has kinda tricked people  into thinking every great QB should be playing at a high level into his 40’s.
The reality is Brady was a huge outlier just like his whole career was. 99 percent of QB’s are done once they reach Rodgers age.
 
Im not saying it’s impossible for Rodgers to do it but history isn’t on his side. There is a better chance he looks washed up next year then there is that he’s still gonna be playing at an extremely high level.
We’re REALLY rolling the dice next year 
 
 
 
 

Didn't need to be said ... Everyone is thinking the exact same thing. But coming from such low depths of sh*t ... We , the drowned, must have hope in something... So Rodgers it is.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[AdrianMurrel]

Douglas outside of one historic draft has been pretty awful.

 

His FA signings have been terrible outside of a few guys.

 

He seems to be more of a scout then a guy who knows how to identify talent already  in the league 

 

 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Edit

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

Quinnen was taken by Mac, and a high first rounder on an interior OL who can't play is hardly a success. A so-called "successful" rebuild takes a little more than a 50% hit rate on high firsts and almost nothing else.

Yes i know who took quinnen but he is a young good player.

As are all the others, that is part of a reubild.   As opposed to many of our other rebuilds that had zero talent.  (See mccagnan)

The jets needed to have about to more drafts of adding good players before going after the qb, instead they panicked when wilson did not work out.

[Ron Rico]

13 hours ago, Beerfish said:

The Jets were well on their way to a successful rebuild.   And then they made two fatal mistakes.

one - they convinced themselves they were closer to being really good than they actually were.

two - they panicked when wilson turned out badly.

 

Three- stay tuned, it should be a whopper. 

[Bleedin Green]

5 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Yes i know who took quinnen but he is a young good player.

As are all the others, that is part of a reubild.   As opposed to many of our other rebuilds that had zero talent.  (See mccagnan)

The jets needed to have about to more drafts of adding good players before going after the qb, instead they panicked when wilson did not work out.

You somehow seem to be missing your very own point.  The entire concept was the rebuild that was already actively being attempted by this front office, and was never by any measure a success, for years before Rodgers.  We're now wrapping up year 5 of it, and the best you could come up with was a grand total of 8 names which was a list dependent on some players this regime wasn't even responsible for or can't even really be considered successes.

It's not just that Wilson alone didn't work out, it's that the overwhelming majority of what Joe Douglas has done hasn't worked out.  He's been an unmitigated disaster, and quantifably worse than any GM in decades, including even Mac.  This year was no more than a stay of execution thanks to Rodgers, given what a monumental failure JD has been.

It actually turns out that maneuver has been his greatest success for himself personally, even if not for the Jets, as JD going out of his way to latch this team onto him for at least another year has turned out to be the primary (if not only) reason his NFL career won't be completely finished within these next few weeks.

[FidelioJet]

18 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

It didn't go as well as we had hoped. As Forrest Gump said, "sh*t happens." 

Now, are there any SOJF who can't see that whichever GM we want fired after JD is let go will have been set up FAR better talent-wise than JD was?

I'm not sure that's the case.  

You'll have Rodgers money coming due and real cap problem if you want to keep the the three positives on the roster. 

Douglas inherited Adams and QW.  The new guy will be getting Sauce, GW and Hall...but with a tougher cap situation.  So maybe a bit better but not by a lot.

People still think JD has done a good job - he hasn't.  Joe Douglas made one exceptional trade - but that's not enough to justify 5 years of awful football. 

[CanadaSteve]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Douglas inherited Adams and QW.  The new guy will be getting Sauce, GW and Hall...but with a tougher cap situation.  So maybe a bit better but not by a lot.

 

Sorry Fidelio, that just isn't true.  JD is here next year.  In 2025, the hypothetical new GM would have over $110 million + in cap space.  And the new guy would be getting Sauce, Garrett, Bryce Hall AND Jermaine Johnson, and Michael Clemons, and Will McDonald, and Joe Tippman, and AVT, plus a bunch of other decent depth players.

I get it.  Everybody hates JD because we haven't made the playoffs.  Deserved.  You win or you are out.  But this all-or-nothing thinking Jet fans steep themselves in is mind-boggling. 

We will be SO much better off with a bunch of the talent we now have on this team compared to the decade previous.  

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Sorry Fidelio, that just isn't true.  JD is here next year.  In 2025, the hypothetical new GM would have over $110 million + in cap space.  And the new guy would be getting Sauce, Garrett, Bryce Hall AND Jermaine Johnson, and Michael Clemons, and Will McDonald, and Joe Tippman, and AVT, plus a bunch of other decent depth players.

I get it.  Everybody hates JD because we haven't made the playoffs.  Deserved.  You win or you are out.  But this all-or-nothing thinking Jet fans steep themselves in is mind-boggling. 

We will be SO much better off with a bunch of the talent we now have on this team compared to the decade previous.  

That cap number is nowhere close to what reality will be when you consider the excessive amount of void years that will be accelerating on the cap that year, a debt which is likely to be soon increased when needing to free up space for 2024.  Then add on top of that whatever further spending is done in the coming months.  Although more than anything, that make believe cap scenario would also involve having half or less of an actual team roster under contract.

Beyond that, it's hardly an exciting inheritence list when you consider that's all there is after 5 years and half of them will be looking for paydays at that point, while the other half include the likes of a backup DL whose known only for what he does/says off the field, an interior OL who cannot stay healthy, and a widely panned reach pick at the team's least needed position who is still an unknown.  If we're counting those kinds of players, then there's plenty more names that could be added onto what JD "inherited" himself, so it's not a great situation at all.

The criticism for JD isn't that they just haven't gotten to the playoffs by some pure chance, it's that after 5 years the roster is still pure garbage.  He's personally responsible for 2 of the very worst drafts in Jets team history, which is saying a lot, and includes an all-time NFL bust.  He's simply been terrible for years at the job he's paid a lot to do, there's no more to it than that.

[Jets723]

On 12/29/2023 at 9:36 AM, bgivs21 said:

IMO, the players are there, this has more to do with coaching (lack of discipline, play calling). Not that Joe D doesn't have some culpability. 

This team with Rodgers was a win now team with pieces all over the field. It's contradicting to hear the same fans in the preseason talk about the playoffs and all the talent the Jets have to now say Joe D has done nothing to fill this roster with talent. 

The problem for Joe is that he missed big on Zach Wilson. Bectons unfortunate injury ****ed the LT position. That's the 2 most important pieces that for one reason or another haven't worked out. 

The oline has a whole had been a disaster for Joe D and he deserves a lot of blame for that.  The two bright spots have been AVT and Tippman but not much else and unfortunately AVT has gotten injured two years in a row 

[neckdemon]

On 12/29/2023 at 9:39 AM, Biggs said:

This is a 10 to 12 win team with a top NFL coaching staff as is.

with this oline? no way

[CanadaSteve]

9 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

 

He's personally responsible for 2 of the very worst drafts in Jets team history, which is saying a lot, and includes an all-time NFL bust.  He's simply been terrible for years at the job he's paid a lot to do, there's no more to it than that.

Again, pure nonsense, but Jets fans are always divided into "the guy can do no wrong" or "the guy can do no right."  Namaste.

[rangerous]

On 12/29/2023 at 9:15 AM, kmnj said:

can joe fan boys tell me at what stage we are at in the "rebuild" We have to be getting close right or is it a 10 year plan?

Joe has had years of built in excuses and failures.

We are supposed to be set with Zach Becton and Mimms - they were to be the "franchise"

Joe has had his guys and his coach and his record for his tenure is beyond abysmal ....

He builds in excuses every year to keep his job-now this year was the arod year so we cant tear it down now-next year is also the arod year again and the sequels always are worse than the original but no worries they have a plan and are taking receipts. 

Joe-he literally conned Woody (an easy task) into two more years of having a job by bringing in a 40 year old QB-wins and losses literally did not matter this year -Joe and Saleh got their extra years.

During Joes tenure, we have watched trash organizations rebuild in 2 years-I am jealous of the browns....  they are winning without their franchise RB , they are on their  4th QB and last night their best WR was out and they dominated us in every aspect of the game. 

If there are any Joe D fanboys left at this point? When are we going to see actual wins ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

You’ll start seeing actual wins when saleh is shown the door and they get a coach who knows the game and can motivate players.  Want to blame Douglas?  Okay he hired baldy and baldy hired the coaches.  And no doubt woody had some influence on the head coaching hire.  It’s all coming to light at how bad a coach saleh is.

[68JET11]

On 12/29/2023 at 10:52 AM, Lith said:

Great post.  Didn't want to quote the whole thing, but I am not sure why it is so hard for folks to see this.  Bad teams are full of holes, then they draft QBs with high picks and wonder why it fails.  I would much rather follow the KC or Buffalo blueprint.  Build solid teams led by veteran journeymen QBs, target a guy in the draft and move heaven and earth to go up and get your guy when you already have a solid enough roster to support a rookie. 

I was fully on board with drafting a QB with the 2 pick a few years ago.  Wilson was not my choice, but I supported using the pick on a QB.  I was wrong.  QB should be the last piece, not the first.

@Sonny Werblin and I have been saying this for years only to get beat down by people thinking we don't need to build from the ground up first. Now that we have a defensive line that can stay, we need the OL. Without it this team fails even with Rodgers as QB. He stated correctly, the 2 mistakes that this team, and JD for that matter have made which will take another 2 years to correct. If he doesn't get the LT of the future and 3 other OL in 2024 either via draft and/or FA, then we are screwed. The only way I'm not picking LT in this upcoming draft is if somehow Marvin Harrison Jr. falls which I highly doubt. The other would be if we beat PATS, which would push us out of the hunt for the top 2 LT's.

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, CanadaSteve said:

Again, pure nonsense, but Jets fans are always divided into "the guy can do no wrong" or "the guy can do no right."  Namaste.

Sure, he has done a very small amount right, just as even the most incompetent of GMs manage to do occasionally.  He has still been overall terrible at the job.  Mac and Idzik had occasional moments of not getting every single thing wrong too, it's no different here.

His responsibility for an all-time NFL bust, two of the worst draft classes in team history, and the worst run of Jets team in literally decades are still all definitive realities.

[CanadaSteve]

29 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

His responsibility for an all-time NFL bust, two of the worst draft classes in team history, and the worst run of Jets team in literally decades are still all definitive realities.

Again, no point in arguing.  I will give you one draft, but two?  Nonsense.  I can give you three off the top of my head that were worse: 1997, 1994, 1990.  Hell, let's throw in 1987 (I think) with Roger Vick leading the way.

[Ron Rico]

LOL Sad Sack and Becton will be back again, next year. You'll see.

[Bleedin Green]

16 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Again, no point in arguing.  I will give you one draft, but two?  Nonsense.  I can give you three off the top of my head that were worse: 1997, 1994, 1990.  Hell, let's throw in 1987 (I think) with Roger Vick leading the way.

Thus, they are two of the worst.  Some of those classes could be debated as better, but like you said, there's no point in that, particularly if the only defense JD has left for him is attempts at semantics.

Either way, it is keeping very bad company.  This is not by any measure a revision of the Jets horrid history, but an indictment of JD's job performance being comparable to their lowest points, which is no easy task when it comes to this team.

[FidelioJet]

14 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

And the new guy would be getting Sauce, Garrett, Bryce Hall AND Jermaine Johnson, and Michael Clemons, and Will McDonald, and Joe Tippman, and AVT, plus a bunch of other decent depth players.

I think you're overestimating the talent of some of these guys.  Sauce and Garrett and pro-bowl talent.

Hall, as much as people don't want to accept, is a + player for sure but not special.  JJ is closer to JAG than special...Clemmons is full on JAG...AVT is another injury away from being a full-on unmitigated bust.

This is a team with a lot of holes...When JD and Saleh get fired after next year the new GM will be coming in having to "rebuild" not add on to an already talented team.  My guess would be of everyone you named up there - only Sauce and Garrett will be re-signed by the Jets (maybe Tippman but I don't know what he is yet)

[Dunnie]

I'm not sure that's the case.  
You'll have Rodgers money coming due and real cap problem if you want to keep the the three positives on the roster. 
Douglas inherited Adams and QW.  The new guy will be getting Sauce, GW and Hall...but with a tougher cap situation.  So maybe a bit better but not by a lot.
People still think JD has done a good job - he hasn't.  Joe Douglas made one exceptional trade - but that's not enough to justify 5 years of awful football. 

For this reason .. and I fully realize it's not a popular opinion ... I think trading one of the three amigos for draft capital is not the worst concept.

JJ maybe since he is on the deepest DLine in the history of the game?



Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[FidelioJet]

12 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

For this reason .. and I fully realize it's not a popular opinion ... I think trading one of the three amigos for draft capital is not the worst concept.

JJ maybe since he is on the deepest DLine in the history of the game?



Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

 

I wouldn't mind trading one.  I mean they will be rebuilding a year from now anyway.  Whatever new GM comes is going to want to start over.

Only thing with JJ is you'll get, at most, a 3rd.  Good player but not great.

[Drums]

On 12/30/2023 at 1:19 AM, Dunnie said:

 
 

 

Offense
Breece
Garrett
I'll give you AVInjured

Defense
Sauce
Q
JFM
Q2
JJ
McD
MC2
Reed
Hall

Anyone else see a huge problem here ? Knucklehead meathead defensive coordinator that is incapable of building an offense.



Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 
 

 

Yeah, we haven't had an offensive staff under Saleh capable of developing offensive players. 

[GreenFish]

Once the rebuild is over, it’s going to be magical.

Unfortunately, it’ll be over at the turn pf the century.