Albert Breer: Woody Johnson stepped in on the first round pick (not Zach Wilson)

[Matt39]

 

[T0mShane]

 

[derp]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think many teams are in the same boat as the Jets talent-wise. The Chiefs are probably a 2 win team without Mahomes, for instance. The Bengals are as talented offensively as you can get and they’re out of the playoffs and will end up with one or two more wins than the Jets, who had one of the hardest schedules in all of football. Again, it’s very likely we’re standing here next season lamenting the lack of talent on the team, but you can’t conclude as much right now. 

You’re comparing franchises paying huge money to young legitimate franchise QB’s to a Jets franchise that had 40 year old Aaron Rodgers at a cap number of like $9M so they could put a team around him that could compete for a Super Bowl. It’s apples and potatoes. Mahomes’ cap number is $57M and Burrow’s is almost $20M and the Bengals are winning games with Jake Browning.

If you count the money that got pushed to future years, Douglas literally spent more than the 2023 salary cap on non Rodgers players for this year’s team. That being the case I can’t buy into the idea that we need to see this group with a QB to evaluate them. You push the pieces in like that and the roster had better be damn good top to bottom, not a group that needs a QB to evaluate them.

The Browns have already clinched a playoff spot with Joe Flacco, the 49ers have clinched the one seed with Brock Purdy. If the roster was that level then by all means give him a pass, it’s not close.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I think they said something like it was taking the Browns under 2 seconds to get to Simian, and he knows he can't run so he just gets rid of the ball as fast as possible.   As a result, he threw all underneath passes.  I remember the announcers were like "I can't remember him throwing the ball downfield except that one time to GW".

I get the idea of saying "well, you play the game the way you have to in order to win".  There's a valid point in there but I still think that's NOT the whole story.  I've made this point before but, just because ZW wouldn't thrive in that situation, I don't think it means he couldn't thrive in any situation. 

ZW has tremendous arm strength (as opposed to Simian, who is far more comparable to Pennington).  You want to put ZW in a situation where he has legit weapinzz to throw to and plays behind a competent OL.  If you put both ZW and Simian in that situation, I think ZW would easily look like the way better QB.  At least, that's my theory (and part of why I think the Jets have completely F'd up the way they've handled him).  

I, uh, do not share your confidence lol. 

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Bryce Young's initials are the first 2 letters of BYU!

[Robert]

Back to back first round tackles when Becton had a good rookie year?

 

not buying it

[T0mShane]

11 minutes ago, derp said:

You’re comparing franchises paying huge money to young legitimate franchise QB’s to a Jets franchise that had 40 year old Aaron Rodgers at a cap number of like $9M so they could put a team around him that could compete for a Super Bowl. It’s apples and potatoes. Mahomes’ cap number is $57M and Burrow’s is almost $20M and the Bengals are winning games with Jake Browning.

If you count the money that got pushed to future years, Douglas literally spent more than the 2023 salary cap on non Rodgers players for this year’s team. That being the case I can’t buy into the idea that we need to see this group with a QB to evaluate them. You push the pieces in like that and the roster had better be damn good top to bottom, not a group that needs a QB to evaluate them.

The Browns have already clinched a playoff spot with Joe Flacco, the 49ers have clinched the one seed with Brock Purdy. If the roster was that level then by all means give him a pass, it’s not close.

The Jets have the third highest cash expenditure at QB this year, ninth highest against the cap at QB. Bengals are last this year against the cap, according to Spotrac. 
 

 

 

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, derp said:

You’re comparing franchises paying huge money to young legitimate franchise QB’s to a Jets franchise that had 40 year old Aaron Rodgers at a cap number of like $9M so they could put a team around him that could compete for a Super Bowl. It’s apples and potatoes. 

If you count the money that got pushed to future years, Douglas literally spent more than the 2023 salary cap on non Rodgers players for this year’s team. That being the case I can’t buy into the idea that we need to see this group with a QB to evaluate them. You push the pieces in like that and the roster had better be damn good top to bottom, not a group that needs a QB to evaluate them.

The Browns have already clinched a playoff spot with Joe Flacco, the 49ers have clinched the one seed with Brock Purdy. If the roster was that level then by all means give him a pass, it’s not close.

Yea, the big issue the Jets have is that there have been a number of other teams who have overcome major injuries at QB/OL to have varying degrees of success, including the one that blew us out on Thursday night to clinch a playoff spot with their 4th different QB this year (a QB we had the last two years and did nothing with).  It has the effect of making the organization look particularly incompetent, relatively speaking. 
 

Then you hear tidbits like Saleh keeps a list of records for head coaches without their starting QBs, and you start to wonder if the head coach is just a loser with loser’s mentality. 

[derp]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The Jets have the third highest cash expenditure at QB this year, ninth highest against the cap at QB. Bengals are last this year against the cap, according to Spotrac. 
 

 

 

Cash doesn’t really impact the team they’re able to assemble and is because of the structure of Rodgers. The cap is that high because of Wilson’s rookie deal, not because of Rodgers, and because they moved Rodgers off IR.

Reasonability check, the Bengals can’t be that low with Burrow. Makes no sense. Looks like because he’s on IR he does not appear to be in the Bengals’ calculation. 

Again, the Jets spent more on this year’s team minus Rodgers than the 2023 cap. Why can’t we evaluate this group without Rodgers?

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

It’s just sad:

We are in this situation because Woody Johnson didn’t want to guarantee 200M for a 26-year old MVP-caliber QB in his prime.

Instead he will end up coughing up 100M or whatever over 7 years for maybe 1 actual year of on-field production from a 40 YEAR OLD mercenary who says all the right things but ultimately has neither the allegiance to your franchise nor the ability at this stage to carry it to the ridiculous heights the idiot owner imagines in his pea-sized brain.

Woody Johnson is a fricking moron, a guy in his late 70s who walks around like he thinks he’s a frat boy / rapper in his baseball cap and ridiculously gaudy bling

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

The Bears are going to trade back from #1 overall for a king’s ransom and still end up with a beast like Marvin Harrison Jr. 

Joe Douglas will be picking in the teens after celebrating a meaningless win over NE and we’ll end up with another bust LT.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

The only thing standing between Woody Johnson and the infamy of being the unquestionably worst owner in football is this man…

 

[T0mShane]

14 minutes ago, derp said:

Cash doesn’t really impact the team they’re able to assemble and is because of the structure of Rodgers. The cap is that high because of Wilson’s rookie deal, not because of Rodgers, and because they moved Rodgers off IR.

Reasonability check, the Bengals can’t be that low with Burrow. Makes no sense. Looks like because he’s on IR he does not appear to be in the Bengals’ calculation. 

Again, the Jets spent more on this year’s team minus Rodgers than the 2023 cap. Why can’t we evaluate this group without Rodgers?

We can absolutely evaluate the team without Rodgers, but we also have to evaluate it in light of the catastrophic, soul-sucking QB situation they’re in, which unquestionably impacts every individual performance surrounding it. Not trying to be contentious here, but everything looks like a house afire when the QB is bad and I’m not arguing that the team is great outside of Wilson, but we see it every week this year how perceptions change when the bad young QB is simply replaced by a steady hand. We just saw it live with the Commanders and Brissett.

[TuscanyTile2]

12 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

The only thing standing between Woody Johnson and the infamy of being the unquestionably worst owner in football is this man…

 

The Carolina situation is worse than ours.  (Not that it's much solace)

[derp]

4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

We can absolutely evaluate the team without Rodgers, but we also have to evaluate it in light of the catastrophic, soul-sucking QB situation they’re in, which unquestionably impacts every individual performance surrounding it. Not trying to be contentious here, but everything looks like a house afire when the QB is bad and I’m not arguing that the team is great outside of Wilson, but we see it every week this year how perceptions change when the bad young QB is simply replaced by a steady hand. We just saw it live with the Commanders and Brissett.

I think the hand waving is a really hard ask to make in light of how many teams have lost QB’s this year and how many have remained passable offensively - certainly relative to the Jets.

This is largely about the GM too. Given the coaching staff and philosophy the plan was likely to build something like SF and Miami. The OL, skill talent, and scheme elevate the quarterback  - not the other way around.

Douglas seemingly tried to build that way. Heavy investments in OL and skill talent. Failed. Failed again. Realized he was on thin ice, threw a Hail Mary, and it hasn’t gone well so far.

I’m overall frustrated because what I see is a GM who’s been more bad than good getting progressively more reckless and then getting a do over because a backed into a corner heave blew up in his face immediately and we’re going to pretend we need more time to figure out if his plan is going to work out. Now we get to watch him dig this franchise into an even deeper hole.

[TuscanyTile2]

4 minutes ago, derp said:

I’m overall frustrated because what I see is a GM who’s been more bad than good getting progressively more reckless and then getting a do over because a backed into a corner heave blew up in his face immediately and we’re going to pretend we need more time to figure out if his plan is going to work out. Now we get to watch him dig this franchise into an even deeper hole.

I'm not even sure I agree there's been more bad than good but I absolutely agree that he's gotten progressively more reckless and I'm very worried he'll dig us into a deeper hole.

[T0mShane]

10 minutes ago, derp said:

The OL, skill talent, and scheme elevate the quarterback  - not the other way around.

Is this true? I don’t think this is entirely true. Flip Wilson and Mahomes and the Jets are coasting to the 1 seed and the Chiefs are firing Andy Reid next week. A lot of my feeling about this regime is based on pure cope. We can’t fire them and if we did we’d be in hell trying to replace them on the fly with Rodgers looming over the proceedings, so we have to ride it out. Ben Solak had an interesting article a few months back about how GMs that draft bust QBs are almost always fired within two years—not necessarily because they’re all-around bad at their jobs, but because you can’t allow the rope to double down on correcting the mistake. We did not fire the GM and we let him double down with Rodgers and here we are, unfortunately. I think your fears are well-founded in that the hole will get deeper, there will be no consideration taken for life post-Rodgers, and we’re about to get more expensive with Davante and (probably) Bakhtiari. 

[Barry McCockinner]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Is this true? I don’t think this is entirely true. Flip Wilson and Mahomes and the Jets are coasting to the 1 seed and the Chiefs are firing Andy Reid next week. A lot of my feeling about this regime is based on pure cope. We can’t fire them and if we did we’d be in hell trying to replace them on the fly with Rodgers looming over the proceedings, so we have to ride it out. Ben Solak had an interesting article a few months back about how GMs that draft bust QBs are almost always fired within two years—not necessarily because they’re all-around bad at their jobs, but because you can’t allow the rope to double down on correcting the mistake. We did not fire the GM and we let him double down with Rodgers and here we are, unfortunately. I think your fears are well-founded in that the hole will get deeper, there will be no consideration taken for life post-Rodgers, and we’re about to get more expensive with Davante and (probably) Bakhtiari. 

I think it's ridiculous that GMs are black balled if they draft a bust QB.

Sample size: 1

Conclusion: This guy is incapable of drafting a QB

what's the percentage of 1st round QB's that bust?

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I think it's ridiculous that GMs are black balled if they draft a bust QB.

Sample size: 1

Conclusion: This guy is incapable of drafting a QB

what's the percentage of 1st round QB's that bust?

Captain James Morgan was another wasted draft pick 

it's not like he only drafted 1 

 

[Augustiniak]

16 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Is this true? I don’t think this is entirely true. Flip Wilson and Mahomes and the Jets are coasting to the 1 seed and the Chiefs are firing Andy Reid next week. A lot of my feeling about this regime is based on pure cope. We can’t fire them and if we did we’d be in hell trying to replace them on the fly with Rodgers looming over the proceedings, so we have to ride it out. Ben Solak had an interesting article a few months back about how GMs that draft bust QBs are almost always fired within two years—not necessarily because they’re all-around bad at their jobs, but because you can’t allow the rope to double down on correcting the mistake. We did not fire the GM and we let him double down with Rodgers and here we are, unfortunately. I think your fears are well-founded in that the hole will get deeper, there will be no consideration taken for life post-Rodgers, and we’re about to get more expensive with Davante and (probably) Bakhtiari. 

The problem is that the entire outlook and offseason approach is now a 1-2 year window so they’re going to be sacrificing longer term talent acquisition and team building to eke into the playoffs to justify every decision.  It means taking a decent tackle over a stud wr.  It means throwing money at stopgap players rather than spending more judiciously.  

And knowing the jets i can also envision an ironic situation where they flip huff and throw all their resources into the offense to get it functional and it finally looks good but then the defense has no depth and they’re losing games 38-35

[derp]

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Is this true? I don’t think this is entirely true. Flip Wilson and Mahomes and the Jets are coasting to the 1 seed and the Chiefs are firing Andy Reid next week. A lot of my feeling about this regime is based on pure cope. We can’t fire them and if we did we’d be in hell trying to replace them on the fly with Rodgers looming over the proceedings, so we have to ride it out. Ben Solak had an interesting article a few months back about how GMs that draft bust QBs are almost always fired within two years—not necessarily because they’re all-around bad at their jobs, but because you can’t allow the rope to double down on correcting the mistake. We did not fire the GM and we let him double down with Rodgers and here we are, unfortunately. I think your fears are well-founded in that the hole will get deeper, there will be no consideration taken for life post-Rodgers, and we’re about to get more expensive with Davante and (probably) Bakhtiari. 

Is this true regarding how the 49ers and Dolphins are built? I think so - I’d be interested in your thoughts otherwise.

I think to your point regarding firing GM’s who draft bust QB’s, they let Douglas double down and it seems they’re going to let him make decisions backed into a counter because…reasons? Just hire some lame duck coach who wants a job, don’t let the GM do anything, and ride it out.

To me anything else presupposes that there’s no adult in the room to say no to Rodgers. And while in this case it’s absolutely true, that doesn’t mean that I can’t find them proceeding the way they are to be absolutely ridiculous.

So while it’s obviously what’s happening, I’m going to call it out for being ridiculous now. I know there’s some outrage in the fanbase right now but I think the only reason there’s not even more is that in general we’ve been numbed a little.

[Augustiniak]

8 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Captain James Morgan was another wasted draft pick 

it's not like he only drafted 1 

 

Same flawed eval of a limited qb with a big arm and nothing else. 

[TuscanyTile2]

47 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Is this true? I don’t think this is entirely true. Flip Wilson and Mahomes and the Jets are coasting to the 1 seed and the Chiefs are firing Andy Reid next week. A lot of my feeling about this regime is based on pure cope. We can’t fire them and if we did we’d be in hell trying to replace them on the fly with Rodgers looming over the proceedings, so we have to ride it out. Ben Solak had an interesting article a few months back about how GMs that draft bust QBs are almost always fired within two years—not necessarily because they’re all-around bad at their jobs, but because you can’t allow the rope to double down on correcting the mistake. We did not fire the GM and we let him double down with Rodgers and here we are, unfortunately. I think your fears are well-founded in that the hole will get deeper, there will be no consideration taken for life post-Rodgers, and we’re about to get more expensive with Davante and (probably) Bakhtiari. 

A bit unfair to compare anyone to Patrick Mahomes but comparing an NFL QB to Flip Wilson?!?!

[TuscanyTile2]

35 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Captain James Morgan was another wasted draft pick 

it's not like he only drafted 1 

 

Apparently Gabe Davis was taken with the pick right after, too.

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 hour ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

The only thing standing between Woody Johnson and the infamy of being the unquestionably worst owner in football is this man…

 

So you’re saying woody has competition now?

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

We can absolutely evaluate the team without Rodgers, but we also have to evaluate it in light of the catastrophic, soul-sucking QB situation they’re in, which unquestionably impacts every individual performance surrounding it. Not trying to be contentious here, but everything looks like a house afire when the QB is bad and I’m not arguing that the team is great outside of Wilson, but we see it every week this year how perceptions change when the bad young QB is simply replaced by a steady hand. We just saw it live with the Commanders and Brissett.

We need to sign a veteran backup qb like Brissett.  No more Zach nonsense next season

[bitonti]

15 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Apparently Gabe Davis was taken with the pick right after, too.

im still sore that Hurts went in the trade down area where they took Mims 

[Matt39]

[Beaver]

39 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

So if this is true.   JD wanted to draft an OT who so far has been terrible, but the owner (who knows nothing about football) made him draft an all pro CB?

 

JD should be fired yesterday.

[BCJet]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

We can absolutely evaluate the team without Rodgers, but we also have to evaluate it in light of the catastrophic, soul-sucking QB situation they’re in, which unquestionably impacts every individual performance surrounding it. Not trying to be contentious here, but everything looks like a house afire when the QB is bad and I’m not arguing that the team is great outside of Wilson, but we see it every week this year how perceptions change when the bad young QB is simply replaced by a steady hand. We just saw it live with the Commanders and Brissett.

Im sorry but this take is just an excuse.  Yes we lost Rogers in an unprecedented horrible way, but teams all over the league have similar situations and manage to be competitive or in the case of the Browns and Vikings actually remain in the playoff hunt.

We took a very talented defense and couldnt even remain remotely competitive because we simply dont have a competent coaching staff.  Our OTs struggled all year but when did we keep a TE in to help?  Why did dalvin cook and CJ Uzmoah continue to play for almost the entire year?  How could Garret Wilson go an entire half without being targeted?  Why are we the most penalized team in the entire league?  It falls on Saleh and the staff

[Ron Rico]

5 hours ago, Matt39 said:

 

That '85 Bears defense, though.

[Bleedin Green]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Not surprising, given that had been pieced together here pretty immediately after it came out, but nice to see Breer himself put an end to that narrative.  The reality just didn't fit the narrative some were desperate to tell of why it is never JD's fault how greatly he fails.

It only actually makes it funny to see that this story instead turns into one of the very few successes over the past 5 years that some clutch onto to defend JD was a player he actually didn't want, but instead needed to be stopped from taking yet another bust.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Jets PR wins again, ammirite? 

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Also. Woody for GM. 

[Rangers9]

If this was leaked by JD, or the someone else in FO it's a fireable offense to throw your owner under the bus like that. And why I don't believe it.