Official NFL Draft Rumors and News Thread

[Adoni Beast]

9 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

IIRC Brady didn’t have an amazing arm when he came into (and subsequently, all over ) the league

Exactly but he was limited to a degree during his first few years in the league and was more of a short yardage thrower.

To his credit he built up arm strength and his velocity actually improved over time so it can clearly by done.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Adoni Beast said:

Exactly but he was limited to a degree during his first few years in the league and was more of a short yardage thrower.

To his credit he built up arm strength and his velocity actually improved over time so it can clearly by done.

Brady had a footwork coach he used a ton in off seasons and also built up his body.  That’s why guys who understand the game and can read a basic defense are better off b/c you can improve arm strength and velocity.  

[derp]

21 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I completely agree, leadership + accuracy/ball placement + anticipation are the key indicators to a successful QB. He doesn't have a rocket arm, but honestly 2 years sitting and learning and a couple of NFL offseason training regimes can build up that arm a bit for some extra mustard. As is....he isn't scrawny at all but we can add some more muscle for some extra juice.

I think especially with backup quarterbacks getting more expensive I’d have a hard time arguing with him on day three if the character is what has been reported.

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

2 hours ago, Barton said:

Watched some more Bowers highlights recently, and he is definitely fast as hell for a tight end. Good burst right after the catch too, which is key. I’m ok with him at 10 but there is some risk. 

I have a sinking feeling he is going to be the pick and for one reason or another it won’t turn out well.

[Claymation]

2 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Yes, as @Larz posted in this thread, BB hit crazy high MPH.

And tbh? I don't know what to make of that. Of course, my knee-jerk reaction is "no f***ing way this dude is Breece Hall fast."

But I'm aware that's not rational on my part.

It shouldn't be right, when presented with new information, just to stay with your previous position. So I'm struggling with that right now.

The height/weight thing - I mean, he's 15th percentile in height, in the 30-35th percentile for weight - and it's rumored he played lighter than that.

This is why it's so frustrating that BB didn't test during this process - he had three opportunities to answer these questions and chose not to.

Since BB isn't prototypical in size and isn't a 'traditional TE', I'd prefer more information, not less. 

The whole thing reminds me a bit of Reggie Bush - it's not apples-to-apples because Reggie Bush did test @ his pro day - but the whole vibe of this thing: Bush was maybe the best college HB I've ever seen. He was a solid pro that didn't live up to his hype.

If I could have Reggie Bush or D'Brickashaw Ferguson, I'm taking D'Brickashaw every day. 

Again, if he re-injures himself what then? Day 2 prospect. 

[Claymation]

[Falco21]

2 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

There is a maturity about this kid which I think translates to being a great leader. One of my cousins is FSU alumni and a huge fan (had classes with Deion Sanders actually although he had a pink Cadillac and never showed to class) and the FSU fans LOVE Travis...like adore him.

I've watched a lot of FSU games and he definitely has a calm and cool pocket presence. Arm isn't super strong but I don't think I categorize it as weak.

100% 

Guy was booed off the field when he first started his college career. Transformed into a great QB putting in a ton of work. Was a great leader and a great person. I actually ran into him one time visiting the campus a few years ago. Such a humble kid that just loves football and loves the grind. He fits the mold of someone I would love to have develop. 

His arm isn't the strongest but he has a good arm, is a lot like Lamar Jackson in his ability to get out of pressure, and is very accurate with a quick release. Again, a great option that I think would translate well to the NFL if handled properly

[RedBeardedSavage]

12 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Again, if he re-injures himself what then? Day 2 prospect. 

I get that, but he also went through drills @ his workout. Drills but no test? 

I just don’t get it. 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Does anybody else get Trubisky vibes with Drake Maye?  What am I missing here?

Would the Vikings really trade up for this guy?

I don't see exceptional arm talent or pocket presence.

He can do some damage with his legs but I wouldn't exactly call him a "dual threat".

I've seen the highlights as well, but some of these plays would terrify me as a GM picking top-5.

 

[Claymation]

19 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Does anybody else get Trubisky vibes with Drake Maye?  What am I missing here?

Would the Vikings really trade up for this guy?

I don't see exceptional arm talent or pocket presence.

He can do some damage with his legs but I wouldn't exactly call him a "dual threat".

I've seen the highlights as well, but some of these plays would terrify me as a GM picking top-5.

 

No

[Claymation]

27 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I get that, but he also went through drills @ his workout. Drills but no test? 

I just don’t get it. 

He did not do any athletic testing, just some positional drills.

[Adoni Beast]

38 minutes ago, Falco21 said:

100% 

Guy was booed off the field when he first started his college career. Transformed into a great QB putting in a ton of work. Was a great leader and a great person. I actually ran into him one time visiting the campus a few years ago. Such a humble kid that just loves football and loves the grind. He fits the mold of someone I would love to have develop. 

His arm isn't the strongest but he has a good arm, is a lot like Lamar Jackson in his ability to get out of pressure, and is very accurate with a quick release. Again, a great option that I think would translate well to the NFL if handled properly

I feel like Pratt is the better prospect but will go in the 3rd and we won't be there for that.

But I do think that Travis will be there in the 4th and we should be down for that, no excuses.

[RedBeardedSavage]

38 minutes ago, Claymation said:

He did not do any athletic testing, just some positional drills.

That's what I'm saying - he's healthy enough to "look explosive doing positional drills" but not healthy enough to do any athletic testing?

Things just don't add-up with this prospect, IMO:

Generational, but undersized, won't submit to any athletic testing and must "land in the right spot" with a team that "uses him properly" and "should not just lineup and play his position traditionally".

Recent generational players that come to mind - say Saquon Barkley, Calvin Johnson, N'Damukong Suh, Myles Garrett - all tested athletically and had none of those qualifiers/hedges. 

[Claymation]

12 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

That's what I'm saying - he's healthy enough to "look explosive doing positional drills" but not healthy enough to do any athletic testing?

Things just don't add-up with this prospect, IMO:

Generational, but undersized, won't submit to any athletic testing and must "land in the right spot" with a team that "uses him properly" and "should not just lineup and play his position traditionally".

Recent generational players that come to mind - say Saquon Barkley, Calvin Johnson, N'Damukong Suh, Myles Garrett - all tested athletically and had none of those qualifiers/hedges. 

What are you saying, that he doesn't have 4.5 speed, 40" vertical? He's not undersized, he is roughly the same size as Conklin. I never said he needs to land in the right spot. 

NFL gave him a grade of 6.71, they gave Nabers-6.86, Harrison-8.84 and Odunze -6.74. None of them are generational talent. They are all day 1 starters. 

[dbatesman]

7 minutes ago, Claymation said:

NFL gave him a grade of 6.71, they gave Nabers-6.86, Harrison-8.84 and Odunze -6.74. 

Are those grades official?

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

That's what I'm saying - he's healthy enough to "look explosive doing positional drills" but not healthy enough to do any athletic testing?

Things just don't add-up with this prospect, IMO:

Generational, but undersized, won't submit to any athletic testing and must "land in the right spot" with a team that "uses him properly" and "should not just lineup and play his position traditionally".

Recent generational players that come to mind - say Saquon Barkley, Calvin Johnson, N'Damukong Suh, Myles Garrett - all tested athletically and had none of those qualifiers/hedges. 

Don't add up?  They have been looking at microchip GPS speed numbers on him for years.  Harrison didn't test either.  The fact that a bunch of other guys were too dumb to listen to their advisors should not influence how you look at Bowers.

[Claymation]

5 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Are those grades official?

As per the NFL website.

[RedBeardedSavage]

20 minutes ago, Claymation said:

What are you saying, that he doesn't have 4.5 speed, 40" vertical? He's not undersized, he is roughly the same size as Conklin. I never said he needs to land in the right spot. 

NFL gave him a grade of 6.71, they gave Nabers-6.86, Harrison-8.84 and Odunze -6.74. None of them are generational talent. They are all day 1 starters. 

I’m saying what Bowers ran/jumped three years ago at a much lighter weight in an event that is not the same controlled environment as the NFL combine should be taken with a grain of salt. If he did it then, why can’t he do it now? Because he’s injured/recovering? Then why did he workout two days ago going through a bunch of drills, but also refuse to put any specific testing #’s on the board? 

How many busts has NFL.com’s rating system predicted in the past?

16 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Don't add up?  They have been looking at microchip GPS speed numbers on him for years.  Harrison didn't test either.  The fact that a bunch of other guys were too dumb to listen to their advisors should not influence how you look at Bowers.

@jetblue95 has a great post in this thread about GPS speed #’s a page ago. 

I’m left wondering how relevant or applicable any of that data is at this point. If we’re saying he has Breece Hall speed, I think we’re deluding ourselves.

And if he did, why not run and show it? He’d be a lock top 10 pick with the potential to go as early as 5 to the Chargers with that speed - He could earn almost double the $ with rookie wage contract slotting with that type of run. 

Marvin Harrison Jr is not undersized, in fact he’s prototypical, and nobody speaks about him “needing to be used properly”, “must go a team with a creative offensive coordinator”, “should not just lineup and play the position traditionally”. Also, his dad is Marvin Harrison Sr, a HOF @ the same position. 

[#27TheDominator]

16 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I’m saying what Bowers ran/jumped three years ago at a much lighter weight in an event that is not the same controlled environment as the NFL combine should be taken with a grain of salt. If he did it then, why can’t he do it now? Because he’s injured/recovering? Then why did he workout two days ago going through a bunch of drills, but also refuse to put any specific testing #’s on the board? 

How many busts has NFL.com’s rating system predicted in the past?

@jetblue95 has a great post in this thread about GPS speed #’s a page ago. 

I’m left wondering how relevant or applicable any of that data is at this point. If we’re saying he has Breece Hall speed, I think we’re deluding ourselves.

And if he did, why not run and show it? He’d be a lock top 10 pick with the potential to go as early as 5 to the Chargers with that speed - He could earn almost double the $ with rookie wage contract slotting with that type of run. 

Marvin Harrison Jr is not undersized, in fact he’s prototypical, and nobody speaks about him “needing to be used properly”, “must go a team with a creative offensive coordinator”, “should not just lineup and play the position traditionally”. Also, his dad is Marvin Harrison Sr, a HOF @ the same position. 

Marvin Harrison Jr's Dad is better than Bowers Dad so it was okay for him not to run?  I guess Brenden Rice should go #1 overall. 

[Adoni Beast]

Looking at this thread right now and kind of enjoying the chaos

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

Just now, #27TheDominator said:

Marvin Harrison Jr's Dad is better than Bowers so it was okay for him not to run?  I guess Brenden Rice should go #1 overall. 

Brendan Rice didn’t dominate college football for two seasons. 

MHJ is not an undersized nebulous-football-position prospect.

“Big slot”, “H-back”, “Move TE”. All these nice ways of saying “Chris Cooley but smaller” or “Aaron Hernandez without the murdering”.

[C Mart]

Ian Rapoport ⁦‪@RapSheet‬⁩

Trade: The #Titans have traded for #Browns OT Leroy Watson for a 2024 seventh-round pick. A depth addition.

4/12/24, 4:01 PM

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

3 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Brendan Rice didn’t dominate college football for two seasons. 

MHJ is not an undersized nebulous-football-position prospect.

“Big slot”, “H-back”, “Move TE”. All these nice ways of saying “Chris Cooley but smaller” or “Aaron Hernandez without the murdering”.

Look, I am not standing on the table for Bowers at 10, but calling him a nebulous prospect seems pretty out there.

[Claymation]

52 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I’m saying what Bowers ran/jumped three years ago at a much lighter weight in an event that is not the same controlled environment as the NFL combine should be taken with a grain of salt. If he did it then, why can’t he do it now? Because he’s injured/recovering? Then why did he workout two days ago going through a bunch of drills, but also refuse to put any specific testing #’s on the board? 

How many busts has NFL.com’s rating system predicted in the past?

 

So you are saying that the NFL.com doesn't know how to evaluate talent? Come on.

[Claymation]

47 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Marvin Harrison Jr's Dad is better than Bowers Dad so it was okay for him not to run?  I guess Brenden Rice should go #1 overall. 

Both of Bower's parents were athletes. Father played football and mother was a pitcher to Utah State. This is the crap I remember.

[RedBeardedSavage]

7 minutes ago, Claymation said:

So you are saying that the NFL.com doesn't know how to evaluate talent? Come on.

Draft grades are inherently subjective, right?

Measuring and testing @ the combine are objective measures.

Checkout some of those grades:

[Larz]

I got your ratings right here 

BR

 

pauline has him at #3

Anyone have bruglers rating on him ?

[Larz]

In my mind I have no question or doubt about Bowers athletic ability or production or skill. He did just fine in the SEC where defenders are also athletic. 
 

You can’t draft him top 10 unless you sit down and talk to Hackett and ask him how he sees Bowers fitting into the offense. 
 

It’s nowhere near the degree of the Lamar Jackson situation where the Ravens basically designed an offense around his skill but you have to have a comfort level that the OC supports the pick and has a big role for him. 
 

You don’t want to hear “get him in here and let’s see what he can do “

You want to hear “my god the mismatch possibilities are endless I know exactly what to do with him “

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

25 minutes ago, Larz said:

I got your ratings right here 

BR

 

pauline has him at #3

Anyone have bruglers rating on him ?

7th overall

[Claymation]

25 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Draft grades are inherently subjective, right?

Measuring and testing @ the combine are objective measures.

Checkout some of those grades:

OK?

Are you trying to say that the combine is more important than what a player does on the field? I hope that isn't what you are trying to say.

 

[#27TheDominator]

37 minutes ago, Larz said:

In my mind I have no question or doubt about Bowers athletic ability or production or skill. He did just fine in the SEC where defenders are also athletic. 
 

You can’t draft him top 10 unless you sit down and talk to Hackett and ask him how he sees Bowers fitting into the offense. 
 

It’s nowhere near the degree of the Lamar Jackson situation where the Ravens basically designed an offense around his skill but you have to have a comfort level that the OC supports the pick and has a big role for him. 
 

You don’t want to hear “get him in here and let’s see what he can do “

You want to hear “my god the mismatch possibilities are endless I know exactly what to do with him “

This is what I don't understand.  If I were an OC - hell, when I am a coordinator even of the U18 kids, I literally am saying “my god the mismatch possibilities are endless I know exactly what to do with him “ about damn near every one of those little sh*ts.  FWIW I say it coaching D and special teams too. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

6 minutes ago, Claymation said:

OK?

Are you trying to say that the combine is more important than what a player does on the field? I hope that isn't what you are trying to say.

 

No, I'm saying the combine/athletic testing is one of the only pieces of the draft evaluation process that is inherently objective and not subjective. 

I posted those grades from NFL.com from an earlier draft hopefully to give insight that perhaps scouting judgments from NFL.com are flawed at best - Jeff Okudah, Chase Young, Jerry Jeudy, Jedrick Wills and Isiah Simmons all had higher NFL.com prospect grades than Brock Bowers currently has.

And they all suck. 

[Larz]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

This is what I don't understand.  If I were an OC - hell, when I am a coordinator even of the U18 kids, I literally am saying “my god the mismatch possibilities are endless I know exactly what to do with him “ about damn near every one of those little sh*ts.  FWIW I say it coaching D and special teams too. 

Ok but you are a good coach. I’m talking about the Jets lol 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

The loss to Miami on Black Friday dropped the team to 5-9, essentially eliminating them from any hopes of playoff contention.

At that point, GW, Sauce and every legit starter should have been benched.

Rest of season should have been treated like NBA “garbage time,” dedicated to developing young players like Maxx Mitchell, Kuntz, JBC, Izzy, Carter Warren, etc.

A 5-12 finish would have given the Jets the 4th overall pick — Washington would be 5-12 also with Jets “winning” H2H tiebreaker — where they’d be locked into Nabers or MHJ or a trade back for a king’s ransom.

Nobody does no-playoffs with no reward for it quite like the NYJ.

[#27TheDominator]

17 hours ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

I’m saying what Bowers ran/jumped three years ago at a much lighter weight in an event that is not the same controlled environment as the NFL combine should be taken with a grain of salt. If he did it then, why can’t he do it now? Because he’s injured/recovering? Then why did he workout two days ago going through a bunch of drills, but also refuse to put any specific testing #’s on the board? 

How many busts has NFL.com’s rating system predicted in the past?

@jetblue95 has a great post in this thread about GPS speed #’s a page ago. 

I’m left wondering how relevant or applicable any of that data is at this point. If we’re saying he has Breece Hall speed, I think we’re deluding ourselves.

And if he did, why not run and show it? He’d be a lock top 10 pick with the potential to go as early as 5 to the Chargers with that speed - He could earn almost double the $ with rookie wage contract slotting with that type of run. 

Marvin Harrison Jr is not undersized, in fact he’s prototypical, and nobody speaks about him “needing to be used properly”, “must go a team with a creative offensive coordinator”, “should not just lineup and play the position traditionally”. Also, his dad is Marvin Harrison Sr, a HOF @ the same position. 

Okay.  I finally understand which post about the GPS numbers.  It is totally irrelevant to my point.  I am not saying Bowers hit 21.9 in 2021 he is super fast.   I am saying the teams have gps info from all 3 years.  I don't but it is more relevant to his speed than running at his pro day.