Talk of Bowers at 10 Picking up Steam; Looking at Day 3 QB’s

[Gastineau Lives]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Counterpoint: every LB in this draft class is 6’0, 225 lbs. That’s who Bowers and the Georgia OL were running all these TE screens against. If he tries that foolywang in practice against Quincy Williams, they’ll be picking pieces of Bowers out of the Florham Park turf like he was a Gilgo Beach prostitute.

 

[Barry McCockinner]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Counterpoint: every LB in this draft class is 6’0, 225 lbs. That’s who Bowers and the Georgia OL were running all these TE screens against. If he tries that foolywang in practice against Quincy Williams, they’ll be picking pieces of Bowers out of the Florham Park turf like he was a Gilgo Beach prostitute.

 

10 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

 

This doesn’t suit my narrative needs, so I will #reject it out of hand

[derp]

9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

If the Jets draft Bowers, the first names of the starting TEs in the AFC East will be: Brock, Durham, Hunter, and Dalton. I try to stay optimistic, but that’s a country in decline, mac. 

Or it’ll be Tyler, Durham, Hunter, and Dawson which isn’t much better.

It had never hit me before that the Bills have a Dawson and a Dalton in their tight end room. I almost feel compelled to look up who TE3 is.

#11andahalfpersonnel

[Bobby816]

5 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Yeah but Moses could hit a wall, or any of the guys could get hurt...and def will at some point doe that first rounder will def play a lot of snaps. Aside from him just swinging in. Again position is worth more than te

I mean what youre saying holds true for any position group though.

Mike Williams is coming off an acl injury and might not be ready for all we know week 1. So should we draft a WR for sure at 10? Bc we’re a Garrett Wilson injury away from possibly Lazard being our #1 and guys who should be fringe roster players in Gipson and Brownlee as 2nd and 3rd WRs?

[Rich Thornburgh]

15 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

Brock Bowere newest knock is how 1/2 his catches were behind the LOS or close to it.

Which if anything just shows how he should be used if you ask me. Furthermore…. I know both these guys are FAs after this year. But with 2 big bodied WRs in MW and Lazard. A guy that catches the ball and is a threat in space. Is perfect for us.

Yes speed is great and all. But there’s multiple ways to win. Bowers is a mismatch for most. CBS and Ss too small. Most LBs aren’t quick enough. A guy like Gipson isn’t a mismatch for a secondary.

So we should draft an undersized tight end at 10 to do something any semi-decent running back could do?

[Rich Thornburgh]

On 4/13/2024 at 4:32 AM, Gastineau Lives said:

Why wouldn’t Bowers physically abuse a player he has 50 lbs on as well?

Problem is not every DB in the NFL is 190lbs or below

[Bobby816]

30 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

So we should draft an undersized tight end at 10 to do something any semi-decent running back could do?

Undersized? To what your standards? I don’t think a football player that’s 6’3” and 235lbs is undersized.

 

Once again. If he isn’t good as you seem to think he isn’t. How was he one of the best players in college football for all 3 years he’s been there? Not a guy playing holy cross each week. A guy playing nfl talent weekly and dominating them. Against teams like Bama, Michigan, Ohio state, etc.

 

If you don’t want him that’s fine. Just say you don’t want to go that direction.

 

But this reaching narrative some of you take to act like he isn’t good. Is laughable. 

[Rich Thornburgh]

4 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Undersized? To what your standards? I don’t think a football player that’s 6’3” and 235lbs is undersized.

 

Once again. If he isn’t good as you seem to think he isn’t. How was he one of the best players in college football for all 3 years he’s been there? Not a guy playing holy cross each week. A guy playing nfl talent weekly and dominating them. Against teams like Bama, Michigan, Ohio state, etc.

 

If you don’t want him that’s fine. Just say you don’t want to go that direction.

 

But this reaching narrative some of you take to act like he isn’t good. Is laughable. 

He is undersized.  Especially if his entire game is predicated on YAC

 

 

[slats]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I mean what youre saying holds true for any position group though.

Mike Williams is coming off an acl injury and might not be ready for all we know week 1. So should we draft a WR for sure at 10? Bc we’re a Garrett Wilson injury away from possibly Lazard being our #1 and guys who should be fringe roster players in Gipson and Brownlee as 2nd and 3rd WRs?

Yes. 
 
If the Jets take a WR at #10, that player will get a ton of training camp and preseason reps as Mike Williams works his way into the lineup. The depth at the position is frightening after him and Wilson, and Williams is only signed for one year and Lazard is playing for the rest of his contract this season. 

[83Kelly2Allen18]

Passing on Bowers is extremely stupid. That's all I'm gonna say. 

[83Kelly2Allen18]

7 minutes ago, slats said:

Yes. 
 
If the Jets take a WR at #10, that player will get a ton of training camp and preseason reps as Mike Williams works his way into the lineup. The depth at the position is frightening after him and Wilson, and Williams is only signed for one year and Lazard is playing for the rest of his contract this season. 

You can do both. 

[TuscanyTile2]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

This doesn’t suit my narrative needs, so I will #reject it out of hand

The hashtag is a nice touch.  lol

[Bobby816]

13 minutes ago, slats said:

Yes. 
 
If the Jets take a WR at #10, that player will get a ton of training camp and preseason reps as Mike Williams works his way into the lineup. The depth at the position is frightening after him and Wilson, and Williams is only signed for one year and Lazard is playing for the rest of his contract this season. 

Totally agree. So if you had it your way you’d go Odunze at 10? What if MHJ, Nabers and Odunze are all gone by 10 and we can’t trade back?

[SickJetFan]

15 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Counterpoint: every LB in this draft class is 6’0, 225 lbs. That’s who Bowers and the Georgia OL were running all these TE screens against. If he tries that foolywang in practice against Quincy Williams, they’ll be picking pieces of Bowers out of the Florham Park turf like he was a Gilgo Beach prostitute.

Nobody ever seems to ever give Monken any credit here - what the Jets should have done was drafted Monken before Baltimore got him.  He made balt off from like middle of pack to top 6 in one season.

[Gastineau Lives]

23 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

He is undersized.  Especially if his entire game is predicated on YAC

 

 

1) it’s not his entire game 

2) not sure how avoiding tackles because you’re quick means you’re too small 

3) much smaller players take more hits on many more touches

4) 

[slats]

39 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

How was he one of the best players in college football for all 3 years he’s been there? Not a guy playing holy cross each week. A guy playing nfl talent weekly and dominating them. Against teams like Bama, Michigan, Ohio state, etc.

Tim Tebow might be the greatest player in college football history, how did that work out for him? 
 
I understand the hype around Bowers, I really do. The guy looks fast on the field and he’s dangerous as a ball carrier. But the red flags are there. Most of his production was schemed for him at Georgia. We’re calling him a TE, but really he was more of an H-back playing behind the offensive line and swinging out to catch passes behind the LOS where there were no defenders around to dominate. He’s not a traditional TE doing traditional TE things. He’s not a player who creates opportunities for himself -which might be important for a top ten pick- but rather a guy they needed to get the ball out in space.
 
This is the thing I don’t get about the fan club. What does Bowers do that Breece Hall can’t do dramatically better? If I’m scheming to get the ball in space to anyone on this offense, it’s gonna be Breece. I’d like a TE who’s going to be solid as a blocker and dominant in the 0-9 yard range where Bowers was rarely used. It’s a massive red flag to say this guy is gonna be great as long as you use him the way he was used at Georgia. It might be different if the Jets had an offensive staff that I could trust to create opportunities the way the 49ers use guys like Deebo, Kittle, or Juszczyk, but I do not have that kind of faith in Hackett. 

[jetspenguin]

I guess tes just simply can’t be bigger than linebackers and some defensive ends, they have to be bigger than defensive tackles too?

They don't have to be anything... The potential being touted is comparative to larger te's.

Likely none of this will matter and we will pick someone else but for shts no giggles

Sent from the FOREVER AND EVER Suicide Watch desk.

[Bobby816]

18 minutes ago, slats said:

Tim Tebow might be the greatest player in college football history, how did that work out for him? 
 
I understand the hype around Bowers, I really do. The guy looks fast on the field and he’s dangerous as a ball carrier. But the red flags are there. Most of his production was schemed for him at Georgia. We’re calling him a TE, but really he was more of an H-back playing behind the offensive line and swinging out to catch passes behind the LOS where there were no defenders around to dominate. He’s not a traditional TE doing traditional TE things. He’s not a player who creates opportunities for himself -which might be important for a top ten pick- but rather a guy they needed to get the ball out in space.
 
This is the thing I don’t get about the fan club. What does Bowers do that Breece Hall can’t do dramatically better? If I’m scheming to get the ball in space to anyone on this offense, it’s gonna be Breece. I’d like a TE who’s going to be solid as a blocker and dominant in the 0-9 yard range where Bowers was rarely used. It’s a massive red flag to say this guy is gonna be great as long as you use him the way he was used at Georgia. It might be different if the Jets had an offensive staff that I could trust to create opportunities the way the 49ers use guys like Deebo, Kittle, or Juszczyk, but I do not have that kind of faith in Hackett. 

Why do you only need 1 guy that can do what Breece can do? Isn’t the objective to have as many guys as you possibly can that can make plays? The objective is to make it where defenses have no clue how to play us. Bc Rodgers can hurt you with his arm and Hall can hurt you with the run. Rodgers having 4 different ways to beat you throwing is impossible to defend regularly. Absolutely Hall is a weapon. I think he very well might be a top 3 RB this next year. So teams will have to gameplan for him. GW will be a go to option for AR. But a team in general can stop just 1 WR. So we grabbed MW. But he’s coming off injury. But jets even say when he’s healthy. Now you have that big bodied guy. So where does Bowers fit in? IMO he fits perfect. Slot type WR. Can line up as a traditional TE. And yes can be used as an Hback. Imagine having Hall and Bowers lined up with GW and MW out there with Rodgers throwing. Who’s stopping that regularly?

 

And why is Bowers catching the ball so close to the LOS an issue. It if anything should be a blueprint on how to use him. What exactly are the haters saying he can’t do? Run good routes? Show me proof he doesn’t run good routes? Doesn’t have good hands? Arguably some of the best hands for a TE I’ve ever seen? Can’t block? He holds his own blocking.

 

And this is all against the best of the best in college. Which 100% should be factored in. As well as he just didn’t do good this year. He would’ve been a top 20 pick after his freshman year.

 

And regrading no trust in us using him the right way. Rodgers runs our offense. And he’ll throw to whoever is open.

[TuscanyTile2]

18 minutes ago, slats said:

Tim Tebow might be the greatest player in college football history, how did that work out for him? 
 
I understand the hype around Bowers, I really do. The guy looks fast on the field and he’s dangerous as a ball carrier. But the red flags are there. Most of his production was schemed for him at Georgia. We’re calling him a TE, but really he was more of an H-back playing behind the offensive line and swinging out to catch passes behind the LOS where there were no defenders around to dominate. He’s not a traditional TE doing traditional TE things. He’s not a player who creates opportunities for himself -which might be important for a top ten pick- but rather a guy they needed to get the ball out in space.
 
This is the thing I don’t get about the fan club. What does Bowers do that Breece Hall can’t do dramatically better? If I’m scheming to get the ball in space to anyone on this offense, it’s gonna be Breece. I’d like a TE who’s going to be solid as a blocker and dominant in the 0-9 yard range where Bowers was rarely used. It’s a massive red flag to say this guy is gonna be great as long as you use him the way he was used at Georgia. It might be different if the Jets had an offensive staff that I could trust to create opportunities the way the 49ers use guys like Deebo, Kittle, or Juszczyk, but I do not have that kind of faith in Hackett. 

 

Quote

If I’m scheming to get the ball in space to anyone on this offense, it’s gonna be Breece

I'm agnostic on taking Bowers (I'm good with whatever JD decides) but I would counter-argue that the more play-makers we have, the more it opens up opportunities.  "Pressure bursts pipes" or some sh-t - lol.

[Gastineau Lives]

19 minutes ago, slats said:

Tim Tebow might be the greatest player in college football history, how did that work out for him? 
 
I understand the hype around Bowers, I really do. The guy looks fast on the field and he’s dangerous as a ball carrier. But the red flags are there. Most of his production was schemed for him at Georgia. We’re calling him a TE, but really he was more of an H-back playing behind the offensive line and swinging out to catch passes behind the LOS where there were no defenders around to dominate. He’s not a traditional TE doing traditional TE things. He’s not a player who creates opportunities for himself -which might be important for a top ten pick- but rather a guy they needed to get the ball out in space.
 
This is the thing I don’t get about the fan club. What does Bowers do that Breece Hall can’t do dramatically better? If I’m scheming to get the ball in space to anyone on this offense, it’s gonna be Breece. I’d like a TE who’s going to be solid as a blocker and dominant in the 0-9 yard range where Bowers was rarely used. It’s a massive red flag to say this guy is gonna be great as long as you use him the way he was used at Georgia. It might be different if the Jets had an offensive staff that I could trust to create opportunities the way the 49ers use guys like Deebo, Kittle, or Juszczyk, but I do not have that kind of faith in Hackett. 

He can do traditional tight end things and do them well. 
 

He’s also got amazing work ethic and will work every single day to improve. He’s not the kind of player to rest on his athleticism and call it a day.

So what you’re getting is a guy that is an amazing athlete, hard nosed player, great hands, willing blocker, who you know will work every day to perfect the areas he’s not all world at, who was the best player on back to back national championship teams and who is a two time Mackey award winner who opposing defensive coordinators have to actually game plan for who dictates your personnel as a defense.

I’m taking that guy every single time. 

[jetspenguin]

Chris Simms is very high on Bowers, feels he definitely lives up to the hype... ranking him compared to the top WR's in the draft he sees him being at #4 or 5 , the same level as Odunze ... 
 

That bastid LOVED (and still does) zackie poo

He needs to rebuild his credibility

Sent from the FOREVER AND EVER Suicide Watch desk.

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, jetspenguin said:

That bastid LOVED (and still does) zackie poo

He needs to rebuild his credibility

Sent from the FOREVER AND EVER Suicide Watch desk.
 

Chris Simms has a very good track record as far as QBs.  

[Augustiniak]

7 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

He can do traditional tight end things and do them well. 
 

He’s also got amazing work ethic and will work every single day to improve. He’s not the kind of player to rest on his athleticism and call it a day.

So what you’re getting is a guy that is an amazing athlete, hard nosed player, great hands, willing blocker, who you know will work every day to perfect the areas he’s not all world at, who was the best player on back to back national championship teams and who is a two time Mackey award winner who opposing defensive coordinators have to actually game plan for who dictates your personnel as a defense.

I’m taking that guy every single time. 

There’s really nothing not to like except for two letters - TE - and the checkered history of taking them so high in the draft.  

Ultimately i think this spirited debate is moot for us, b/c i think we’re taking fuaga.  This is a deep wr class and i think douglas can trade back a few spots, still get his tackle and then have 2 day 2 picks to find a decent wr.  Shame on douglas if he doesn’t get a good tackle in this draft, he’s had 5 yrs to find one. 

[Gastineau Lives]

6 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

There’s really nothing not to like except for two letters - TE - and the checkered history of taking them so high in the draft.  

Ultimately i think this spirited debate is moot for us, b/c i think we’re taking fuaga.  This is a deep wr class and i think douglas can trade back a few spots, still get his tackle and then have 2 day 2 picks to find a decent wr.  Shame on douglas if he doesn’t get a good tackle in this draft, he’s had 5 yrs to find one. 

Well, I’ve been seeing alot of Fautanu buzz now.

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Well, I’ve been seeing alot of Fautanu buzz now.

I know and i like him too.  A few things between these guys, 1) fautanu is 2 yrs older, 2) i read his run blocking isn’t great, and 3) how much of his value is his position versatility?  At least with fuaga you’re getting an A+ run blocker so he does one thing very well.  

[slats]

16 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

He can do traditional tight end things and do them well. 
 

He’s also got amazing work ethic and will work every single day to improve. He’s not the kind of player to rest on his athleticism and call it a day.

So what you’re getting is a guy that is an amazing athlete, hard nosed player, great hands, willing blocker, who you know will work every day to perfect the areas he’s not all world at, who was the best player on back to back national championship teams and who is a two time Mackey award winner who opposing defensive coordinators have to actually game plan for who dictates your personnel as a defense.

I’m taking that guy every single time. 

Back in the day, I would’ve taken Vernon Davis ahead of Brick, and I would’ve made a mistake. But Davis was heavier than Bowers, did the full round of testing, ran a 4.4 40 and jumped a 42” vertical with an RAS of 9.94. That absolute stud of a prospect didn’t make a difference in the passing game until his fourth season in the league because TE is a difficult position to transition or project to the pros. 

[bla bla bla]

15 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I mean I’d welcome MHJ, Nabers or Alt 😉 

Lol me too, I just don't see them being there. I do think Odunze makes it to 10 though

[TuscanyTile2]

Rumor has it that Indy might trade up for Bowers.

[Gastineau Lives]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

Back in the day, I would’ve taken Vernon Davis ahead of Brick, and I would’ve made a mistake. But Davis was heavier than Bowers, did the full round of testing, ran a 4.4 40 and jumped a 42” vertical with an RAS of 9.94. That absolute stud of a prospect didn’t make a difference in the passing game until his fourth season in the league because TE is a difficult position to transition or project to the pros. 

I need a deeper dive on Vernon Davis. Be back in a bit.

[Gastineau Lives]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Rumor has it that Indy might trade up for Bowers.

I’ll kill you

[bla bla bla]

28 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

He can do traditional tight end things and do them well. 
 

He’s also got amazing work ethic and will work every single day to improve. He’s not the kind of player to rest on his athleticism and call it a day.

So what you’re getting is a guy that is an amazing athlete, hard nosed player, great hands, willing blocker, who you know will work every day to perfect the areas he’s not all world at, who was the best player on back to back national championship teams and who is a two time Mackey award winner who opposing defensive coordinators have to actually game plan for who dictates your personnel as a defense.

I’m taking that guy every single time. 

I'm 100% on board with Bowers at 10, are you still taking Bowers over Odunze if he is there? I think we ultimately come down to Odunze, Bowers and Fautanu as the 3 on our big board

[bla bla bla]

6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Rumor has it that Indy might trade up for Bowers.

My guess is they jump us for Bowers because the Bears only have 4 picks in this draft. Odunze for the Jets at 10!

[Augustiniak]

10 minutes ago, slats said:

Back in the day, I would’ve taken Vernon Davis ahead of Brick, and I would’ve made a mistake. But Davis was heavier than Bowers, did the full round of testing, ran a 4.4 40 and jumped a 42” vertical with an RAS of 9.94. That absolute stud of a prospect didn’t make a difference in the passing game until his fourth season in the league because TE is a difficult position to transition or project to the pros. 

Could part of this be b/c back in the day, teams didn’t know how to use a guy like this as a non traditional TE?  It seems easy to take bowers and line him up in various spots and create plays for him.  Especially on a team with breece, garrett wilson and mike williams.  

[bicketybam]

6 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Rumor has it that Indy might trade up for Bowers.

That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world as it would push a top WR or OL closer to us.