Talk of Bowers at 10 Picking up Steam; Looking at Day 3 QB’s

[BornJetsFan1983]

On 4/11/2024 at 7:34 AM, Jack Straw said:

Brock Bowers is the best athlete in this class.

JetNation can't handle this because of the "TE" before his name and because he's 3/4 inch shorter than other players who have "TE" before their names.

 

 

What we ever do with out his back up role on the team and 300 yards this season? Man we are so crazy to not want that guy on da team. Forget a lineman to protect our QB or a wr that we desperately need. 

We def need to go TE. First round TEs are a great move historically and not basically ruined the teams that draft them who draft class...oh wait 

[Gastineau Lives]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The Bills tried doing this with Kincaid thinking it was cute—using Kincaid in the slot and calling it their “11 1/2 package” and it ****ed up the whole offense and Ken Dorsey got fired. If you play a receiving TE in the slot, the defense counters with nickel, and if that TE can’t beat the nickel corner off the snap, you may as well just put an extra lineman out there. What makes guys like Kelce and Kittle great is that if you line up a 5’10, 195 lb corner over them, they’ll physically abuse that guy to the point where you have to take him off the field altogether. If I’m the Jets and I’m thinking about taking Bowers, I bring him to the facility and ask him to run a few routes against Michael Carter and see how he responds to Carter punching him in the chest at the LOS

Why wouldn’t Bowers physically abuse a player he has 50 lbs on as well?

[Gastineau Lives]

27 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

What we ever do with out his back up role on the team and 300 yards this season? Man we are so crazy to not want that guy on da team. Forget a lineman to protect our QB or a wr that we desperately need. 

We def need to go TE. First round TEs are a great move historically and not basically ruined the teams that draft them who draft class...oh wait 

Bill da wall!

[Jack Straw]

2 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

What we ever do with out his back up role on the team and 300 yards this season? Man we are so crazy to not want that guy on da team. Forget a lineman to protect our QB or a wr that we desperately need. 
We def need to go TE. First round TEs are a great move historically and not basically ruined the teams that draft them who draft class...oh wait 

 

All this post proves is that you haven’t read this thread with any comprehension beyond a third grade level or watched a single Georgia game in the last three years.

Pay attention: I haven’t even advocated for Brock at 10.

What I am doing is suggesting that people who compare Bowers to other tight ends might have learning disabilities, PTSD from being a Jets fan, or family ties to Tyler Conklin.

Based on this post, you may have hit the trifecta.




Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

[Bobby816]

3 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

What we ever do with out his back up role on the team and 300 yards this season? Man we are so crazy to not want that guy on da team. Forget a lineman to protect our QB or a wr that we desperately need. 

We def need to go TE. First round TEs are a great move historically and not basically ruined the teams that draft them who draft class...oh wait 

Backup Lineman

[T0mShane]

2 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Why wouldn’t Bowers physically abuse a player he has 50 lbs on as well?

I’m 50 lbs heavier than most American males and I very rarely beat them up because I’m nice and I lack the temperament to physically dominate others.

[83Kelly2Allen18]

The sentiment that te is a luxury pick is valid. It's rarely ever worth it even if the guy is good. This doesn't apply at all to generational tes...

 

If he's anything close to a Kelce or Gonzalez it's absolutely a home run and actually harder to defend than a standard number one wr 

[83Kelly2Allen18]

Look at what Kincaid did for Buffalo. Diggs was hurt and less targeted, Davis went down and they leaned into Kincaid more and changed their offense. I want that security blanket for Rodgers 

[Bobby816]

A thing to highlight when looking at JD trends is how much he likes team captains.

Of note of guys we could target at 10.

Odunze, Bowers, Fashanu, Fuaga were team captains

Fautanu, Nabers and Latham were not.

[Bobby816]

Just now, 83Kelly2Allen18 said:

Look at what Kincaid did for Buffalo. Diggs was hurt and less targeted, Davis went down and they leaned into Kincaid more and changed their offense. I want that security blanket for Rodgers 

Kincaid is going to be a star. Watch this year him take off.

[Gastineau Lives]

33 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m 50 lbs heavier than most American males and I very rarely beat them up because I’m nice and I lack the temperament to physically dominate others.

Just say you’ve never watched him play, Fatso

[GreenFish]

When Jets fans start to exaggerate a player, I start to hear the winds howling…bust.

Apparently Brock Bowers is the best athlete and football player in the ENTIRE!!! draft and carried Georgia on his back.

 

[T0mShane]

4 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Just say you’ve never watched him play, Fatso

Note that I said I *rarely* physically dominate smaller guys, my wee friend. 

[Gastineau Lives]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Note that I said I *rarely* physically dominate smaller guys, my wee friend. 

Keep your fantasies in a diary, sailor. This is highly inappropriate.

[TuscanyTile2]

7 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The Bills tried doing this with Kincaid thinking it was cute—using Kincaid in the slot and calling it their “11 1/2 package” and it ****ed up the whole offense and Ken Dorsey got fired. If you play a receiving TE in the slot, the defense counters with nickel, and if that TE can’t beat the nickel corner off the snap, you may as well just put an extra lineman out there. What makes guys like Kelce and Kittle great is that if you line up a 5’10, 195 lb corner over them, they’ll physically abuse that guy to the point where you have to take him off the field altogether. If I’m the Jets and I’m thinking about taking Bowers, I bring him to the facility and ask him to run a few routes against Michael Carter and see how he responds to Carter punching him in the chest at the LOS

 

Quote

If I’m the Jets and I’m thinking about taking Bowers, I bring him to the facility and ask him to run a few routes against Michael Carter and see how he responds to Carter punching him in the chest at the LOS

This might be a really dumb question but are teams allowed to give these players individual workouts like this?  

Ftr, I'm pretty much agnostic about him as a player.  If we take him then I'll assume JD and our scouts truly think that he's a special player.

[Gastineau Lives]

10 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

When Jets fans start to exaggerate a player, I start to hear the winds howling…bust.

Apparently Brock Bowers is the best athlete and football player in the ENTIRE!!! draft and carried Georgia on his back.

 

That’s close enough to reality to keep you from losing any sleep. 

[GreenFish]

2 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

That’s close enough to reality to keep you from losing any sleep. 

🤣 Great comeback. If we draft him, I hope you’re right.

[Jet Nut]

On 4/11/2024 at 12:50 PM, section314 said:

Serious question....if Bowers is this unbelievable player, top 5 in this draft, why in the heck does anyone think he will be there at 10?

Because there are 4 teams, most thinking they’re smarter than others in evaluating QBs and three stud WRs ahead of him? 

[Augustiniak]

46 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

A thing to highlight when looking at JD trends is how much he likes team captains.

Of note of guys we could target at 10.

Odunze, Bowers, Fashanu, Fuaga were team captains

Fautanu, Nabers and Latham were not.

And yet every year we have among the most toxic of locker rooms.  Go figure. 

[Barton]

The baller move that moves all the chips in, is taking Bowers at 10 and then trading next years 2nd rd pick for Davante Adams.

If Odunze is not there at 10, are the Jets really gonna roll with a hobbled Mike Williams as their #2 receiver going into the season?

That would be idiotic, IMO. 

[varjet]

53 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

A thing to highlight when looking at JD trends is how much he likes team captains.

Of note of guys we could target at 10.

Odunze, Bowers, Fashanu, Fuaga were team captains

Fautanu, Nabers and Latham were not.

Zach Wilson was technically one, but not really.  

[varjet]

I flip flop on Bowers.   All of these top players have very competent representation that try to position their clients in the best light.   They know Bowers is too big and slow to be a WR, so they are trying to position him as a “generational” tight end.  

When you look at him on film, and more important pictures, he looks like he played last year at GA at a cut up 230 pounds.   If he is weighing in right now in the 240s, he bulked up.  

We have also seen time and time again players succeed in college because of the physical mismatch they created, only to not be as successful in the pros.   As a general matter, WRs in the NFL who are first round successful are over 6 ft tall and run sub 4.5s.  Those are the types that get open and can fight for balls.  The great TEs are tall, strong and fast.    I would have to think that the position with the worst positional performance in the first round has been TE.  There have been too many first round TEs who have really not performed well, and too many drafted below the first round that have been better.  

Brock Bowers is going to encounter LBs, Ss and bigger Nickles like MC2 (no more Roy Mickens there) that will challenge his game.  I think the key for Bowers is to get leaner and faster.  He will not be a in-line TE.  He is basically a big WR.  I think he will be a successful NFL player and make a difference in offenses.   He will basically be an Aaron Hernandez/Dustin Keller type.  

But in this draft, the value is in the top 8 and then 20-60.  Those extra wins have put the Jets in no man’s land.   GMs like to take BPA, etc.  If I am JD, I don’t think that is what I am doing at 10.  I am either trading down or taking the player than could help my team the most in 2024 so I keep my job and maximize the Rodgers value.   If stuck at 10 (and I would be very flexible trading down, because I am not seeing the value at 10 and even a third round pick would help this team a lot), for 2024 I am seeing Odunze, Bowers and Fautanu (because of flexibility) making a difference.  In the long term, Fashanu is the pick=-he is the LT of the future and a slightly better version of Broderick Jones we should have gotten last year.  

But at 6-3 at 230 pounds, couldn’t Bowers basically be Mike Evans?

[CTJetsFan]

Heard an interesting player comp this morning for Bowers - Dallas Clark. 

Polian was speaking of Bowers as easily a top 10 pick

[FidelioJet]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

 

So now we need to test to see if a guy is a good athlete?

[TuscanyTile2]

5 hours ago, Barton said:

The baller move that moves all the chips in, is taking Bowers at 10 and then trading next years 2nd rd pick for Davante Adams.

If Odunze is not there at 10, are the Jets really gonna roll with a hobbled Mike Williams as their #2 receiver going into the season?

That would be idiotic, IMO. 

I don't want us to acquire Devante Adams.  I just can't imagine a scenario where that move doesn't completely blow up in our face.

[jetblue95]

3 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

Pay attention: I haven’t even advocated for Brock at 10.
 

 

 

kind of weird you spend all this time pumping up bowers, calling him a generational talent who you expect to put up hall of fame numbers, criticize and question the intelligence of those who question this assessment and are leary of using a top 10 pick on a TE, and now you tell us you don't even advocate the jets taking him should we be so fortunate that this generational unicorn of a hall of fame talent is just sitting there for the jets???

[83Kelly2Allen18]

8 hours ago, T0mShane said:

The Bills tried doing this with Kincaid thinking it was cute—using Kincaid in the slot and calling it their “11 1/2 package” and it ****ed up the whole offense and Ken Dorsey got fired. If you play a receiving TE in the slot, the defense counters with nickel, and if that TE can’t beat the nickel corner off the snap, you may as well just put an extra lineman out there. What makes guys like Kelce and Kittle great is that if you line up a 5’10, 195 lb corner over them, they’ll physically abuse that guy to the point where you have to take him off the field altogether. If I’m the Jets and I’m thinking about taking Bowers, I bring him to the facility and ask him to run a few routes against Michael Carter and see how he responds to Carter punching him in the chest at the LOS

That's not why Dorsey got fired. Dorsey got fired for trying to turn Allen into Tom Brady, which was stupid. 

The first thing Brady changed was letting Allen be the sandlot QB he is. Allen was scrambling more, his attitude completely changed, he looked way more  natural and joyful. the bills went on a 6 game winning streak and almost got to the dance... 

Brady also didn't force feed Diggs anymore and leaned into Kincaid. Kincaid had a lot more targets and catches in the second half of the year. 

Brady also didn't run plays just to run them. If the running game was working, he just kept doing it. Ie the cowboys game...

He tried to neuter Allen and that is the absolute worst thing. He's never going to be Brady. He's this generations favre and you have to live and die with his game. 

Btw that may be why Allen and Buffalo don't win a Superbowl. So I don't think Dorsey was terrible for trying, but you could see it was not working. The entire offense under Dorsey put up numbers because of Allen's talent, but it was slowly getting worse. It looked extremely clunky and off under Dorsey 

[TuscanyTile2]

https://nypost.com/2024/04/13/sports/nfl-draft-2023-brock-bowers-can-be-game-changer-amid-jets-interest/

Brock Bowers’ elite ceiling makes him potential 2024 NFL Draft ‘game-changer’ for Jets
Mark Cannizzaro

Published April 13, 2024, 9:49 a.m. ET
The NFL, like many sports, is a copycat league.

And in the case of the tight end position, every team in the league is trying to find the next Travis Kelce … or even George Kittle.

Tight end has become the game-changing position in the league.

Now, the question is this: Is Brock Bowers that next game-changing tight end poised to light it up in the NFL?

The numbers Bowers put up at Georgia and the success the Bulldogs had with him on the field are indicators that he has a chance to be at least as good as Kelce and Kittle.

Bowers, by far the best tight end prospect available in the upcoming draft, ended his collegiate career as the SEC’s all-time leader for tight ends in catches (175), receiving yards (2,538) and receiving touchdowns (26).

All of those numbers were also the most at the position across the entire country from 2021-23.

[Read the rest at the URL]

[T0mShane]

33 minutes ago, 83Kelly2Allen18 said:

That's not why Dorsey got fired. Dorsey got fired for trying to turn Allen into Tom Brady, which was stupid. 

The first thing Brady changed was letting Allen be the sandlot QB he is. Allen was scrambling more, his attitude completely changed, he looked way more  natural and joyful. the bills went on a 6 game winning streak and almost got to the dance... 

Brady also didn't force feed Diggs anymore and leaned into Kincaid. Kincaid had a lot more targets and catches in the second half of the year. 

Brady also didn't run plays just to run them. If the running game was working, he just kept doing it. Ie the cowboys game...

He tried to neuter Allen and that is the absolute worst thing. He's never going to be Brady. He's this generations favre and you have to live and die with his game. 

Btw that may be why Allen and Buffalo don't win a Superbowl. So I don't think Dorsey was terrible for trying, but you could see it was not working. The entire offense under Dorsey put up numbers because of Allen's talent, but it was slowly getting worse. It looked extremely clunky and off under Dorsey 

This is good insight, but Kincaid never sniffed a 100 yard game all season, was a liability in the run game, and under Brady averaged 5 catches for 48 yards per game, with one chip shot TD in their playoff game to show for it. They averaged 26.2 ppg under Dorsey and improved to 27.1 ppg under Brady. Not blaming Dorsey’s firing directly on Kincaid, but just making the point that the first round receiving TE is rarely a difference maker, and prioritizing that player in a passing game isn’t bearing much fruit. Tyler Conklin, sharing snaps with two other TEs, gave the Jets 4/36 per game last year playing with garbage at QB

[Jack Straw]

 
kind of weird you spend all this time pumping up bowers, calling him a generational talent who you expect to put up hall of fame numbers, criticize and question the intelligence of those who question this assessment and are leary of using a top 10 pick on a TE, and now you tell us you don't even advocate the jets taking him should we be so fortunate that this generational unicorn of a hall of fame talent is just sitting there for the jets???

Imagine this: there are several great players in this draft and I don’t know who will be on the board at 10.

Shockingly controversial, I know.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[83Kelly2Allen18]

26 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

This is good insight, but Kincaid never sniffed a 100 yard game all season, was a liability in the run game, and under Brady averaged 5 catches for 48 yards per game, with one chip shot TD in their playoff game to show for it. They averaged 26.2 ppg under Dorsey and improved to 27.1 ppg under Brady. Not blaming Dorsey’s firing directly on Kincaid, but just making the point that the first round receiving TE is rarely a difference maker, and prioritizing that player in a passing game isn’t bearing much fruit. Tyler Conklin, sharing snaps with two other TEs, gave the Jets 4/36 per game last year playing with garbage at QB

 

 

I personally think over the next few years Rodgers could make Bowers the next Kelce. Please sign me up for that 

[Jetkwondo]

2 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

Heard an interesting player comp this morning for Bowers - Dallas Clark. 

Polian was speaking of Bowers as easily a top 10 pick

Dallas Clark came to Iowa at 210 lbs which increased to play at 257 lbs his last year in college and in which he ran a 4.65 40.

At Iowa Clark caught 78 passes during his two seasons at tight end, but those weren't his most impressive numbers. Those came in his workouts before NFL teams. His 20-yard short shuffle time was an amazing 3.85 seconds, perhaps one of the best ever by a tight end prospect. His three cone drill was 6.33 seconds. He had a 37 1/2 inch vertical jump. 

Considering that good cornerbacks have a time of 3.95 seconds in the 20 yard shuttle, Clark confirmed on the clock what the coaches saw in practices and in games. Clark has an advantage going against defenders in short passing routes because he gets into his route so fast...

"Dallas has tremendous lower body strength" Doyle said. "He's now 257 pounds... His change of direction time is the best ever".

http://www.espn.com/nfldraft/columnist?id=1537628

This article by John Clayton about Dallas Clark's college transition to the NFL points out why Bowers not testing is a valid issue for some...

[83Kelly2Allen18]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

This is good insight, but Kincaid never sniffed a 100 yard game all season, was a liability in the run game, and under Brady averaged 5 catches for 48 yards per game, with one chip shot TD in their playoff game to show for it. They averaged 26.2 ppg under Dorsey and improved to 27.1 ppg under Brady. Not blaming Dorsey’s firing directly on Kincaid, but just making the point that the first round receiving TE is rarely a difference maker, and prioritizing that player in a passing game isn’t bearing much fruit. Tyler Conklin, sharing snaps with two other TEs, gave the Jets 4/36 per game last year playing with garbage at QB

Kincaids pacing from week 7 and on was around 85-90 for 850-900 yards over a 17 game span... He also almost had 4 100 yards games and took over diggs spot as the number one target. 

His double teams were a massive reason Shakir had the same production as diggs despite half the targets of diggs( in the second half of the Year)... In fact the emergence of Kincaid in essence exposed diggs to some extent and Davis. It's why the bills cleared out their wr room except for Shakir and a upside wr in Shorter. 

The bills wrs in diggs and Davis were 64th and 67th in separation rate, near the bottom in yac and were number one in drop % since week 11. 

I guarantee you buffalo is not only trading up for a wr, but also drafting another wr and probably signing/ trading for another 

[CTJetsFan]

46 minutes ago, Jetkwondo said:

Dallas Clark came to Iowa at 210 lbs which increased to play at 257 lbs his last year in college and in which he ran a 4.65 40.

At Iowa Clark caught 78 passes during his two seasons at tight end, but those weren't his most impressive numbers. Those came in his workouts before NFL teams. His 20-yard short shuffle time was an amazing 3.85 seconds, perhaps one of the best ever by a tight end prospect. His three cone drill was 6.33 seconds. He had a 37 1/2 inch vertical jump. 

Considering that good cornerbacks have a time of 3.95 seconds in the 20 yard shuttle, Clark confirmed on the clock what the coaches saw in practices and in games. Clark has an advantage going against defenders in short passing routes because he gets into his route so fast...

"Dallas has tremendous lower body strength" Doyle said. "He's now 257 pounds... His change of direction time is the best ever".

http://www.espn.com/nfldraft/columnist?id=1537628

This article by John Clayton about Dallas Clark's college transition to the NFL points out why Bowers not testing is a valid issue for some...

Great post.

While many (myself included) get too focused on 40 times, this makes me wonder how Bowers would have done at these other drills had he tested.

[jetspenguin]

On 4/12/2024 at 4:35 AM, Gastineau Lives said:

Them too:

 

 

 

how many of these guys are TE.'s?