Talk of Bowers at 10 Picking up Steam; Looking at Day 3 QB’s

[Gastineau Lives]

1 minute ago, Jack Straw said:

If Bowers' has 800 yards receiving, that would be 7th best all-time amongst rookie TEs. 6 TDs would place him 6th all-time amongst rookie TEs. Those are "baseline" numbers that I would expect from him and likely where the over/under would be for him coming in as a rookie.

I expect him to surpass both of these numbers. He is a generational talent but like many players (see: Pitts, Kyle) his success is partly dependent on coaches who will scheme the ball to him and a QB who can deliver it.

Pitts, who’s that, the guy who busted then died (poor fella) and everybody uses as a reason not to take Bowers?

[Jetkwondo]

20 minutes ago, Dcat said:

JD is hard at work...  just conned the media 

Funny I'm now at the point with the Bowers hype to think this might be going on to draw trade up interest. It's going to be interesting to see what plays out... expect the unexpected?

[Rich Thornburgh]

45 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

You know, if you added up all the reasons people are saying you shouldn’t take Bowers, you’d have the worst tight end prospect in history

Small

probably slow since he didn’t run 

fumbles

cant win contested balls

not a good route runner 

One trick pony

only had good games against kingsborough community college and yeshiva university

walking injury

 

Hopefully giants take him at 6.  
 

id rather go Odunze or Nabers 

[jetblue95]

12 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

Your obsession with watching football players run around in their underwear is concerning.

If you want to see Brock run, there are 40 Georgia games to choose from over the last three years. In those 40 games, you'll see him catch 175 passes for 2500 yards and 26 TDs while carrying Georgia on his back to a national title. 

Trust your eyes.

 

 

yeah, it was only bowers that led them to the title

i mean it's not like they had 15 players drafted in 2022 (from the 2021 title team), including 5 1st rounders, and 11 total picks in the first 4 rounds.  and then they had another 10 players drafted in 2023 (from the 2022 title team), including another 3 first rounders.

it was all the TE carrying the team on his back.

and while he had some nice games against better competition (notably the title game vs TCU), he also racked up a lot of those stats on crappy teams.  he may have played in the SEC, but georgia loads up on crappy OOC cupcakes and many of his big games were against the weaker SEC teams.  i just don't know if his ability to catch a screen and get tons of YAC will translate to the nfl the way it did in college.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/4432665/type/college/year/2023

 

[Rich Thornburgh]

16 hours ago, GangGreeninBetween said:

Bowers is a nice prospect and I'm sure he will be a good player but it's not the direction the Jets should go....

Kittle (5th round), Kelce (3rd round), (LaPorta 2nd round), (Andrews 3rd round), (Hockenson 1st round 8th Pick). You can find a good TE later in the draft, you don't need to spend a premium top 10 pick. Give me the OT or WR, both are more valued positions than TE. Conklin is a good enough TE who had a career year last year despite poor QB play, hopefully Joe D upgrades another area of the roster.

 

My biggest issue is Aaron has never really used the TE

[rbstern]

1 hour ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

I see a bunch of folks are related to Brock,,  I'll throw out this lil tidbit  already last year ankle injury , and a hamstring that forced him not to test at combine or Pro day . He'll be hurt week 1 , or he wont play until week 10 ,  PASS!!!!!!!!!

 

OMG!  A football player who got injured?  How does that happen?

Bowers missed two games in his college career.  He demonstrated a willingness to do what it took to get back on the field as quickly as possible, and caught a TD pass in a game 26 days after having elective ankle surgery to come back faster from a sprain.

Obvious physical talents aside, he's one of those dudes who loves to play and will do whatever it takes to maximize his opportunities and help his team win.  He's exactly what you want as a future star.

[Jack Straw]

19 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

yeah, it was only bowers that led them to the title

i mean it's not like they had 15 players drafted in 2022 (from the 2021 title team), including 5 1st rounders, and 11 total picks in the first 4 rounds.  and then they had another 10 players drafted in 2023 (from the 2022 title team), including another 3 first rounders.

it was all the TE carrying the team on his back.

and while he had some nice games against better competition (notably the title game vs TCU), he also racked up a lot of those stats on crappy teams.  he may have played in the SEC, but georgia loads up on crappy OOC cupcakes and many of his big games were against the weaker SEC teams.  i just don't know if his ability to catch a screen and get tons of YAC will translate to the nfl the way it did in college.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/4432665/type/college/year/2023

 

I was referring to Bowers' contributions on offense, which I'm sure you understood very well. And who gives a sh*t about how many first rounders were on his team?  Every National Championship team has multiple first rounders on them, and Brock was the clear #1 player on those teams.

Three years of non-stop production at a top 2 college football program in the SEC means little to the naysayers. No amount of evidence will persuade the ignorant. "And while he had some nice games against better competition" certainly minimizes what he actually did against Alabama in 2021 (10/140/1 TD and TCU in 2022(7/152/1 TD) with Stetson Bennett (who sucks) throwing him the football.

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

1 hour ago, Jetkwondo said:

Funny I'm now at the point with the Bowers hype to think this might be going on to draw trade up interest. It's going to be interesting to see what plays out... expect the unexpected?

I think Joe Douglas would be thrilled if someone leapfrogs him for Bowers.

In Baltimore, Philly and Chicago during his time there I don’t think they ever took a TE that high.

Goedert was a 2nd rounder like Andrews.

Hayden Hurst was a mid to late 1st 🤣

[AFJF]

2 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

You know, if you added up all the reasons people are saying you shouldn’t take Bowers, you’d have the worst tight end prospect in history

Small

probably slow since he didn’t run 

fumbles

cant win contested balls

not a good route runner 

One trick pony

only had good games against kingsborough community college and yeshiva university

walking injury

 

People do this weird thing where they hate a player so much that they pick out a bunch of negative traits or downsides to drafting him and they act is if they only apply to that one player.

"Everything he did was against college players"...oh, no sh*t?

[jetblue95]

43 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

I was referring to Bowers' contributions on offense, which I'm sure you understood very well. And who gives a sh*t about how many first rounders were on his team?  Every National Championship team has multiple first rounders on them, and Brock was the clear #1 player on those teams.

Three years of non-stop production at a top 2 college football program in the SEC means little to the naysayers. No amount of evidence will persuade the ignorant. "And while he had some nice games against better competition" certainly minimizes what he actually did against Alabama in 2021 (10/140/1 TD and TCU in 2022(7/152/1 TD) with Stetson Bennett (who sucks) throwing him the football.

 

 

and what did he do against alabama in 2023 - 5/53?  what about 3/34 against ole miss in 2023?

didn't play alabama in 2022.  went 2/38 vs. oregon, 3/27 against tenn, 6/81 against LSU and 4/64 vs. ohio state.  

and in 2021, you left out 3/36 in the title game vs alabama, 5/55 against michigan in the semis, 2/43 vs. auburn, and 6/43 vs clemson

so yes, he had some nice games against better competition as noted above, but also some rather meh games against ranked teams as detailed in my post.  like i said before, much of those huge counting stats were against lower quality SEC teams and cupcake OOC opponents.

he was an excellent college player.  no one can deny that.  that in and of itself, doesn't mean he will be this generational unicorn in the nfl who will go down as amongst the best to ever play TE/slot in the games history.  which is how you paint his outlook.  and unless he is this true generational talent, using a top 10 pick on a TE is a giant risk.

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

13 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

and what did he do against alabama in 2023 - 5/53?  what about 3/34 against ole miss in 2023?

didn't play alabama in 2022.  went 2/38 vs. oregon, 3/27 against tenn, 6/81 against LSU and 4/64 vs. ohio state.  

and in 2021, you left out 3/36 in the title game vs alabama, 5/55 against michigan in the semis, 2/43 vs. auburn, and 6/43 vs clemson

so yes, he had some nice games against better competition as noted above, but also some rather meh games against ranked teams as detailed in my post.  like i said before, much of those huge counting stats were against lower quality SEC teams and cupcake OOC opponents.

he was an excellent college player.  no one can deny that.  that in and of itself, doesn't mean he will be this generational unicorn in the nfl who will go down as amongst the best to ever play TE/slot in the games history.  which is how you paint his outlook.  and unless he is this true generational talent, using a top 10 pick on a TE is a giant risk.

Excellent post.

Yeah, he’s undeniably fast for a TE.

But Vernon Davis was faster and didn’t prove to be worth a top-6 pick or whatever he was.

Bowers is agile and twitched up for a TE so that amps up the wow factor for scouts, who are always looking for athletic specimens.

The question is are we sure that is going to translate into unicorn type production as an NFL TE.

LaPorta doesn’t look twitched up at all and isn’t particularly fast.  He’s just good.

Gronk and Kelce are fast for their size but look more like traditional lumbering TEs in how they move.

They’re good blockers and just know how to get open, whether it’s soft spots in zones or beating man coverage and very physical with great hands at the catch point.

Antonio Gates wasn’t a burner at all but was just a smooth technician.

[HighPitch]

23 hours ago, section314 said:

Serious question....if Bowers is this unbelievable player, top 5 in this draft, why in the heck does anyone think he will be there at 10?

BECAUSE OF his position as a TE.....OHHHH dang it....I see what you did here

[nycdan]

I want to put up a slightly different take on the TE vs. WR debate.  Everyone talks about yards and TDs as the metrics to show how TEs don't have as much impact on the game.

But there is a stat put together by profootballreference.com (the best stats site out there by far)

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/receiving.htm

There is a column for Receiving Success Rate (succ%) that is defined as: >A successful reception gains at least 40% of yards required on 1st down, 60% of yards required on 2nd down, and 100% on 3rd or 4th down. Denominator is targets.

This is what you look to TEs and slot receivers to do.  They don't usually get the home run catches, but they consistently keep drives moving and contribute to points scored.  In some cases, a lot.  

Looking at the top-20 on the list sorted by Succ%:

We see 9 TEs (and 1 RB).  I see Kelce, Andrews, Kittle in this group.  No metric is the end of any argument, but I do think this provides a perspective that TEs support an offense every bit as much as all but the top 4-5 WRs in the league.  

Lambs numbers are insane.  Aiyuk, St. Brown, Collins, and Jefferson (10 games) as well.  But after that, I think the top TEs are right there.

Anyway, it's a different way of framing the argument at a time when it's a big deal.  YMMV.

 

[Jack Straw]

32 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

and what did he do against alabama in 2023 - 5/53?  what about 3/34 against ole miss in 2023?

didn't play alabama in 2022.  went 2/38 vs. oregon, 3/27 against tenn, 6/81 against LSU and 4/64 vs. ohio state.  

and in 2021, you left out 3/36 in the title game vs alabama, 5/55 against michigan in the semis, 2/43 vs. auburn, and 6/43 vs clemson

so yes, he had some nice games against better competition as noted above, but also some rather meh games against ranked teams as detailed in my post.  like i said before, much of those huge counting stats were against lower quality SEC teams and cupcake OOC opponents.

he was an excellent college player.  no one can deny that.  that in and of itself, doesn't mean he will be this generational unicorn in the nfl who will go down as amongst the best to ever play TE/slot in the games history.  which is how you paint his outlook.  and unless he is this true generational talent, using a top 10 pick on a TE is a giant risk.

 

Ah yes, Bowers only had 3 catches for 34 yards against Mississippi in his first game back from ankle surgery 26 days prior. It's also convenient that you failed to mention that one of those catches was a touchdown, which is important because, ya know, touchdowns matter.

And yes, Bowers only went 5/53 against Alabama in a game where you could visibly see him limping around on his surgically repaired ankle from six weeks prior. Also, 5/53 = 85 catches + 900 yards over a 17 game NFL season, which is hardly what I would consider to be a sub-par performance.

It's absurd that you nitpick every game for Bowers.

Let's do this for Julio Jones! He was held to under 50 yards in 5 of his 13 games in his final season of college. Let's do it for Marvin Harrison Jr! He was held to under 32 yards receiving in 4 of his 12 games last year! And let's do Calvin Johnson! He was held to under 26 yards receiving in 4 of 13 games in his final collegiate season.

Not every prospect is going to have dominant performances every single week. If you want to use that as a reason to not draft someone, you'd have a roster full of Hall of Famers off your board for the same reason. The fact remains: Bowers consistently produced on the field week in week out for three seasons in the SEC. No TE in collegiate history has as much consistent production over such a large sample size (40 games). 

This is all so so silly.

[C Mart]

Connor Rogers @ConnorJRogers

Never underestimate how late coaches get involved in the process and how much that can change things

Dianna Russini @DMRussini
Just had an insightful draft conversation with a GM who strongly reminded me about 20 times that most teams are still undecided and NO TEAM is leaking to anyone who they are picking. Most organizations aren’t even settled on who they are taking.

It’s still early.

 

Reason - position coaches only started grinding prospect tapes to the positions they coach 1-2 months ago..

[Jack Straw]

52 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Excellent post.

Yeah, he’s undeniably fast for a TE.

But Vernon Davis was faster and didn’t prove to be worth a top-6 pick or whatever he was.

Bowers is agile and twitched up for a TE so that amps up the wow factor for scouts, who are always looking for athletic specimens.

The question is are we sure that is going to translate into unicorn type production as an NFL TE.

LaPorta doesn’t look twitched up at all and isn’t particularly fast.  He’s just good.

Gronk and Kelce are fast for their size but look more like traditional lumbering TEs in how they move.

They’re good blockers and just know how to get open, whether it’s soft spots in zones or beating man coverage and very physical with great hands at the catch point.

Antonio Gates wasn’t a burner at all but was just a smooth technician.

Sam Laporta ran a 4.59 40 and had excellent college production to go along with his athleticism. Vernon Davis' college production was 50% of Brock Bowers and catapulted to pick 6 because of an absurd 4.3 40. Davis is to TEs was Mike Mamula was to DEs.

Brock Bowers is a better athlete than Laporta and provided better college production in a better conference. This is not complicated.

[Jack Straw]

3 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Pitts, who’s that, the guy who busted then died (poor fella) and everybody uses as a reason not to take Bowers?

Yes exactly. Pitts is the guy who had the most receiving yards (1,026) ever for a rookie TE in the modern era, and the 2nd most receiving yards of all time for a rookie TE.

A Ferrari is not going to perform as well in a demolition derby as a Ford Taurus, but that doesn't mean that it's not a better car and that anyone would or should opt for the Taurus. 

People are not very bright when evaluating the TE position. 

 

[jetblue95]

30 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

Ah yes, Bowers only had 3 catches for 34 yards against Mississippi in his first game back from ankle surgery 26 days prior. It's also convenient that you failed to mention that one of those catches was a touchdown, which is important because, ya know, touchdowns matter.

And yes, Bowers only went 5/53 against Alabama in a game where you could visibly see him limping around on his surgically repaired ankle from six weeks prior. Also, 5/53 = 85 catches + 900 yards over a 17 game NFL season, which is hardly what I would consider to be a sub-par performance.

It's absurd that you nitpick every game for Bowers.

Let's do this for Julio Jones! He was held to under 50 yards in 5 of his 13 games in his final season of college. Let's do it for Marvin Harrison Jr! He was held to under 32 yards receiving in 4 of his 12 games last year! And let's do Calvin Johnson! He was held to under 26 yards receiving in 4 of 13 games in his final collegiate season.

Not every prospect is going to have dominant performances every single week. If you want to use that as a reason to not draft someone, you'd have a roster full of Hall of Famers off your board for the same reason. The fact remains: Bowers consistently produced on the field week in week out for three seasons in the SEC. No TE in collegiate history has as much consistent production over such a large sample size (40 games). 

This is all so so silly.

 

i didn't nitpick every game.  i looked at his game logs over his career and while i grant there were some big games against good competition, there was also a lot of big games against crappy competition and mediocre games against good opponents.  if one looks at his game log for this year, the 3 games that jump out in are a trio in the middle against UAB, a bad auburn team and a decent kentucky team.  57% of his total yardage on the season and 4 of his 6 TDs came against this trio.  his next highest yardage was 78 yards against tenn-martin. and 6 games with 60 or less yards receiving.

and yes, MHJ was indeed held under 32 yards in 4 games this year.  and he broke 100 in the other 8 games and had 3 games with 160 or more.  he also had 7 100 yard games the year before.  that is elite (and i note, i am a michigan alum, so me singing the praises of a buckeye isn't easy).  malik nabers had 9 games over 100 yards (including 239 and 171).  rome odunze had 10 games over 100.  if you are going to classify bowers as a "receiving weapon", his numbers don't compare to these guys (to say nothing of his limited route tree).

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

34 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

Sam Laporta ran a 4.59 40 and had excellent college production to go along with his athleticism. Vernon Davis' college production was 50% of Brock Bowers and catapulted to pick 6 because of an absurd 4.3 40. Davis is to TEs was Mike Mamula was to DEs.

Brock Bowers is a better athlete than Laporta and provided better college production in a better conference. This is not complicated.

At this point, whether it's Bowers or somebody else, I'm mostly just looking forward to day 1 getting here and being in the books.

 

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

6 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

i didn't nitpick every game.  i looked at his game logs over his career and while i grant there were some big games against good competition, there was also a lot of big games against crappy competition and mediocre games against good opponents.  if one looks at his game log for this year, the 3 games that jump out in are a trio in the middle against UAB, a bad auburn team and a decent kentucky team.  57% of his total yardage on the season and 4 of his 6 TDs came against this trio.  his next highest yardage was 78 yards against tenn-martin. and 6 games with 60 or less yards receiving.

and yes, MHJ was indeed held under 32 yards in 4 games this year.  and he broke 100 in the other 8 games and had 3 games with 160 or more.  he also had 7 100 yard games the year before.  that is elite (and i note, i am a michigan alum, so me singing the praises of a buckeye isn't easy).  malik nabers had 9 games over 100 yards (including 239 and 171).  rome odunze had 10 games over 100.  if you are going to classify bowers as a "receiving weapon", his numbers don't compare to these guys (to say nothing of his limited route tree).

It's also a fact he had a ton of screen targets.

30 screen targets in 2023 (vs 9 for Ladd McConkey), and a lot of wheel routes.

There are some downfield targets mixed in as well but it sort of begs the question if they thought he could run a full route tree, why didn't they use him more that way?

If he's that fast and good, why not use him at least once in a while on go-routes to threaten the defense vertically?  Can he not track a ball over his shoulder?

If they do end up with him, they should trade Conklin during the draft to free up some cap space and clear the way for Bowers and Ruckert to see the field.

[slats]

3 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

If Bowers' has 800 yards receiving, that would be 7th best all-time amongst rookie TEs. 6 TDs would place him 6th all-time amongst rookie TEs. Those are "baseline" numbers that I would expect from him and likely where the over/under would be for him coming in as a rookie.

I expect him to surpass both of these numbers. He is a generational talent but like many players (see: Pitts, Kyle) his success is partly dependent on coaches who will scheme the ball to him and a QB who can deliver it.

Expecting better than the 7th best rookie season ever from a player at his position is a pretty precarious place to be drafting from, but that’s the problem with drafting a low-value position this high; the player needs to be star caliber right out of the gate. And then you say that you expect this production, but then add the caveat of “dependent on coaches who will scheme the ball to him.” 
 
That is a very shaky foundation on which to justify the pick. 

LaPorta gets thrown around because he put up numbers as a rookie, but he did so by being targeted 120 times. A rookie H-back is not going to be targeted 120 times on a team with Garrett Wilson, Mike Williams, and Breece Hall. I also continue to fail to see the reason to draft a player who needs special accommodation in order to be successful. I’d much rather scheme my screen game thru Breece or Gipson, who have elite NFL speed, as opposed to a guy who’s fast for a TE. 
 
The reason I believe it will be WR or OT is because those are high value positions who don’t need to be elite players at their respective positions to be successful picks, and because the value ceiling is dramatically higher. 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Expecting better than the 7th best rookie season ever from a player at his position is a pretty precarious place to be drafting from, but that’s the problem with drafting a low-value position this high; the player needs to be star caliber right out of the gate. And then you say that you expect this production, but then add the caveat of “dependent on coaches who will scheme the ball to him.” 
 
That is a very shaky foundation on which to justify the pick. 

LaPorta gets thrown around because he put up numbers as a rookie, but he did so by being targeted 120 times. A rookie H-back is not going to be targeted 120 times on a team with Garrett Wilson, Mike Williams, and Breece Hall. I also continue to fail to see the reason to draft a player who needs special accommodation in order to be successful. I’d much rather scheme my screen game thru Breece or Gipson, who have elite NFL speed, as opposed to a guy who’s fast for a TE. 
 
The reason I believe it will be WR or OT is because those are high value positions who don’t need to be elite players at their respective positions to be successful picks, and because the value ceiling is dramatically higher. 

Yet if they took rome, his numbers wouldn’t be great either in this offense with the other guys.  Breece and garrett are going to get theirs.  Whether it’s rome or bowers they’re still a rookie in a veteran offense.  So really it comes down to, is the guy you take going to be great year 3-4?  Not year 1. 

[slats]

4 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

Yet if they took rome, his numbers wouldn’t be great either in this offense with the other guys.  Breece and garrett are going to get theirs.  Whether it’s rome or bowers they’re still a rookie in a veteran offense.  So really it comes down to, is the guy you take going to be great year 3-4?  Not year 1. 

Rome would be expected to be the starting X receiver by his second season, and the ceiling on production for a starting X is significantly greater than the ceiling of a TE. Sorry, but the all time great WRs and OTs are more valuable than all time great TEs. 
 
This idea that Bowers immediately steps in a starts vs. an OL or WR is also a big assumption. Conklin is probably a better TE than Moses is a RT, except Conklin isn’t coming off pectoral surgery and will be ready to start the season. Same with a WR pick who will see plenty of first team reps while Mike Williams recovers from his ACL. 

[Augustiniak]

2 minutes ago, slats said:

Rome would be expected to be the starting X receiver by his second season, and the ceiling on production for a starting X is significantly greater than the ceiling of a TE. Sorry, but the all time great WRs and OTs are more valuable than all time great TEs. 
 
This idea that Bowers immediately steps in a starts vs. an OL or WR is also a big assumption. Conklin is probably a better TE than Moses is a RT, except Conklin isn’t coming off pectoral surgery and will be ready to start the season. Same with a WR pick who will see plenty of first team reps while Mike Williams recovers from his ACL. 

I agree, but my point is to not draft a guy based on what he does in 2024.  So if they think fashanu is going to be the next brick, but they don’t take him b/c they need a guy like fuaga more in 2024, that’s a bad decision.  Was not a comment on positional value.  

[Jetsfan80]

22 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

He’s a faster version of Aaron Hernandez IMO but not as sturdily built.

I hope the similarities with Aaron Hernandez end there.

[Jack Straw]

10 minutes ago, slats said:

Expecting better than the 7th best rookie season ever from a player at his position is a pretty precarious place to be drafting from, but that’s the problem with drafting a low-value position this high; the player needs to be star caliber right out of the gate. And then you say that you expect this production, but then add the caveat of “dependent on coaches who will scheme the ball to him.” 
 
That is a very shaky foundation on which to justify the pick. 

LaPorta gets thrown around because he put up numbers as a rookie, but he did so by being targeted 120 times. A rookie H-back is not going to be targeted 120 times on a team with Garrett Wilson, Mike Williams, and Breece Hall. I also continue to fail to see the reason to draft a player who needs special accommodation in order to be successful. I’d much rather scheme my screen game thru Breece or Gipson, who have elite NFL speed, as opposed to a guy who’s fast for a TE. 
 
The reason I believe it will be WR or OT is because those are high value positions who don’t need to be elite players at their respective positions to be successful picks, and because the value ceiling is dramatically higher. 

To be clear, I'm not necessarily advocating for Brock at 10. But I do expect that any team that picks Brock Bowers with a top 10 pick is smart enough feature him heavily in the passing game. If a team selects Bowers and asks him to be a traditional TE, then yeah, that's pretty dumb and would not be his best use case. Drafting Peyton Manning and asking him to run the read-option would be pretty dumb too, but that doesn't mean that the player sucks.

If you buy a Ferrari, you're expected to drive it fast on open roads -- you don't take it to the demolition derby and then complain that it broke apart on first contact. Brock Bowers, just like a Ferrari, should not be used this way. And if someone does use him this way, that's on the team and not the player.

 

[slats]

10 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

If you buy a Ferrari, you're expected to drive it fast on open roads -- you don't take it to the demolition derby and then complain that it broke apart on first contact. Brock Bowers, just like a Ferrari, should not be used this way.

Really think Bowers is more of a Cybertruck. 

[Jetsfan80]

If we don’t take Bowers, it has better be because we’re taking a WR.

An OT in round 1, again, will make me livid.  Douglas needs to figure the OL the f**k out without constantly using premium draft capital there.  

And given the high bust nature of OTs in the draft lately anyways, it’s an even riskier pick than a TE.  I’m not nearly as impressed with the top OT prospects as many of you are.  

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

I sort of have a feeling Ladd McConkey is going to be a steal for someone.

He needs to get stronger to beat press coverage but the route running chops, hands, movement look good.

Also has sneaky good YAC ability.

Looks a little like Kupp out there plus 4.39 wheels.

[Jet25]

When there is a lot of talk about a player we are picking. It won't be him

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, Jet25 said:

When there is a lot of talk about a player we are picking. It won't be him

it depends on the year 

there was a lot of talk about Quinnen, Becton and Zach and all came true 

as for Bowers this is not the pick I would make personally (*fuaga*) but this is the pick they are going to make 

the biggest mistake fans make is believing the team is smarter than they are  - because they are professionals or something 

 

[viffer]

On 4/11/2024 at 11:02 AM, THE BARON said:

I would very much like Bowers as the 10th overall pick for the Jets.  They have not had a great TE since Mickey Shuler.  I respect the argument that 1st round TE's don't traditionally generate as much production as 1st round WR's, but Bowers appears to be "special".  We also know that JD loves to draft prospects that he describes as "freaks".  Bowers seems to fit the "freak" category.  

...

I want Bowers over Nabers or Odunze

If he is really that good then someone will take him before he gets to our pick. You KNOW that as Jets' fans we are not allowed to have nice things...

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

Is Bowers faster than this guy?

I remember when Ruggs was the 1st WR off the board based on his ability to take quick hitters like this to the house.

It never happened for Ruggs once when he got to the league.

These plays based on pure speed don’t translate to the NFL.

You just don’t see plays like this unless it’s a complete breakdown by the defense or some kind of trick play.

 

[Plen T]

On 4/11/2024 at 12:50 PM, section314 said:

Serious question....if Bowers is this unbelievable player, top 5 in this draft, why in the heck does anyone think he will be there at 10?

There’s 4 QBs going in the top 10

Elite oline, edge, and WR always go top 10

the fact that a TE is considered top 10 makes him an “unbelievable player”

[Bobby816]

3 hours ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

Excellent post.

Yeah, he’s undeniably fast for a TE.

But Vernon Davis was faster and didn’t prove to be worth a top-6 pick or whatever he was.

Bowers is agile and twitched up for a TE so that amps up the wow factor for scouts, who are always looking for athletic specimens.

The question is are we sure that is going to translate into unicorn type production as an NFL TE.

LaPorta doesn’t look twitched up at all and isn’t particularly fast.  He’s just good.

Gronk and Kelce are fast for their size but look more like traditional lumbering TEs in how they move.

They’re good blockers and just know how to get open, whether it’s soft spots in zones or beating man coverage and very physical with great hands at the catch point.

Antonio Gates wasn’t a burner at all but was just a smooth technician.

It’s a different NFL now than when Vernon played. A guy like Bowers skill set for a TE is what the nfl is trending toward. How about us being early for a trend instead of a decade behind. Like we always are.

 

And who’s throwing to these high drafted guys makes a difference. Pitts isn’t a failed pick. He had trash throwing to him since he’s been in the league. No doubt he will be a top TE this next year with cousins there now. Rodgers is pretty much our OC and you can bet he’ll Theo to who’s open and the mismatch. Which Bowers would be quite a bit. Bowers is only a bad pick if he goes to a team with not a good QB (most weapons are this). And isn’t used correctly. Which I think Rodgers would use him correctly.