Talk of Bowers at 10 Picking up Steam; Looking at Day 3 QB’s

[#27TheDominator]

11 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

WTF does the timing matter?  A similar bad move like drafting Kyle Brady over Warren Sapp it shouldn’t matter what year it took place it reflects the same flawed thinking

Is Warren Sapp in this draft?  I am pretty sure they passed on Warren Sapp because he is a sh*tty person that they didn't trust.  Plenty of teams did.  The timing matters because we are discussing whether it makes sense to draft a TE that high.  Using drafts from 30 years ago is obviously flawed.  In the Brady/Sapp/Douglas draft the first overall was Ki-Jana Carter.  I bet there were at least 5 RB taken that round.  Does that sound like it correlates with today?

[Claymation]

TJ Hockenson was a top 10, FYI

[jetblue95]

Just now, Gastineau Lives said:

1) They should have been top ten picks 

2) Our qb is terrible, I know.

3) I doubt you’ve watched that much film of a guy you clearly don’t want 

 

1) great.  in hindsight every hall of famer should have been a top 10 pick.  now can you give me the numbers to the next powerball.

2) you were the one crediting those super bowls to the fact they had a good TE, rather than noting they had legendary QBs.  it's like the post i saw earlier on one of these threads crediting bowers with making georgia a dominant team, never mind the 20 or so players they've had drafted over the last 3 years.  i think someone tried to make it like bowers was the reason their defense got better.  a healthy rodgers would certainly help.  but rodgers made his hall of fame career playing with the likes of jermichael finley, donald lee, andrew quarles, richard rodgers, marcedes lewis and robert tonyon.  

3) if you have film of bowers blocking and making himself a target in the middle of the field, i'm happy to view it.  i will admit i don't watch much film on any player.  but i've read about his usage and the percent of catches he has at or behind the LOS and how he was used in georgia.  are you saying you think he could play a "traditional" TE role, like kelce or kittles?  is there much tape of him doing this play after play after play?

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

 

 

[jetblue95]

8 minutes ago, Claymation said:

How about Kyle Wilson? Would you rather have him?

 

nah, i'd rather have darrelle revis

we going to keep playing this game?  do you think you're winning this argument by asking would you rather have a bad CB over a good TE?

what position do you think nfl teams value more - CB or TE?

and to be clear, i am not advocating the jets use the #10 pick on a CB.  it is not a need for the jets.  i just listed positions team prioritize with top 10 picks - QB, o-line, d-line/edge rusher, WR and CB.  didn't think it was a controversial statement

[jetblue95]

15 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

 

4) look who upvoted you

 

???

[Claymation]

27 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

WTF does the timing matter?  A similar bad move like drafting Kyle Brady over Warren Sapp it shouldn’t matter what year it took place it reflects the same flawed thinking

It was roughly 30 years ago. And why is drafting a TE, that is a specimen, the same as drafting a lumber TE like Brady. Oh its not. 

[Gastineau Lives]

6 minutes ago, jetblue95 said:

 

1) great.  in hindsight every hall of famer should have been a top 10 pick.  now can you give me the numbers to the next powerball.

2) you were the one crediting those super bowls to the fact they had a good TE, rather than noting they had legendary QBs.  it's like the post i saw earlier on one of these threads crediting bowers with making georgia a dominant team, never mind the 20 or so players they've had drafted over the last 3 years.  i think someone tried to make it like bowers was the reason their defense got better.  a healthy rodgers would certainly help.  but rodgers made his hall of fame career playing with the likes of jermichael finley, donald lee, andrew quarles, richard rodgers, marcedes lewis and robert tonyon.  

3) if you have film of bowers blocking and making himself a target in the middle of the field, i'm happy to view it.  i will admit i don't watch much film on any player.  but i've read about his usage and the percent of catches he has at or behind the LOS and how he was used in georgia.  are you saying you think he could play a "traditional" TE role, like kelce or kittles?  is there much tape of him doing this play after play after play?

1) you don’t think he can be at that level. I do. Now provide me a list of players picked at the spots they were picked at that were complete dogsh*t it’s the DRAFT not the ******* supermarket when I buy an apple I know I’m getting an apple. You take your best swings. This is the best swing for the jets 

2) I’m at a Walmart pissing off my gf because I’m a typing zombie so we’ll have to pick this up later

3) don’t ever think about taking a sh*t at a Walmarts and definitely don’t argue about tight ends while having to take a sh*t

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, slats said:

The thing with Bowers, though, is that he’s supposed to be both the best TE prospect in the history of prospects but also not really a TE, more of a big slot receiver where he lined up the majority of his time in college. So if you use the best TE prospect ever as a traditional TE, you’re gonna be disappointed, and you need a smart and creative OC to get the most out of him. Dude comes with a lot of strings attached. At the end of the day, he’s basically a ‘tweener. Not a lot of ‘tweeners go top ten. Not a lot of players who need to be used a specific way, or players who saw the vast majority of their production come from scheming them the ball uncontested behind the LOS, either. In the top ten, you want the guys who make their own opportunities. Not many straight up slot receivers, either, as we saw JD pass on one of those last year -much to the chagrin of many on this board- to take a premium position instead. 
 
If the dude was more of a TE/OT ‘tweener, I’d be happier to get on board. One of those guys who runs over defenders as both a blocker and a receiver. The value of a great TE to me isn’t a guy who’s more like a WR, it’s the guy who beats you with both brute force and soft hands. 

But Bowere is what the anFL is trending to. In a league that’s trying to get less physical. To have as many guys that can do damage in space is where the league is going. And that doesn’t always have to be with speed and quickness. I don’t have to tell you how Bowers would run over secondary players from Bama. Just watch. How he was too fast for front 7 guys. As well as being a useful blocker in space if we chose to get a guy like GW or Breece in space. Where a “big slot/TE” is a mismatch there. When a guy like Gipson isn’t really.

[Rich Thornburgh]

31 minutes ago, Claymation said:

He has a better chance of being a pro bowler than MHJ, Nabers and Odunze.

😆

[Rich Thornburgh]

13 minutes ago, Claymation said:

It was roughly 30 years ago. And why is drafting a TE, that is a specimen, the same as drafting a lumber TE like Brady. Oh its not. 

There’s no statute of limitations for assessing stupid football decisions like drafting a mediocre tight end over Warren Sapp because of”red flags”

 

Remember when it didn’t matter Josh Allen had a higher completion percentage in college than Brett Favre?  The game “changed” amirite?

[Bobby816]

23 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

 

 

Doubt it’s a coincidence when it’s the day Rodgers and such are there.

[Rich Thornburgh]

32 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Is Warren Sapp in this draft?  I am pretty sure they passed on Warren Sapp because he is a sh*tty person that they didn't trust.  Plenty of teams did.  The timing matters because we are discussing whether it makes sense to draft a TE that high.  Using drafts from 30 years ago is obviously flawed.  In the Brady/Sapp/Douglas draft the first overall was Ki-Jana Carter.  I bet there were at least 5 RB taken that round.  Does that sound like it correlates with today?

If we are going this route all I’m saying is Odunze and Nabers are better options. 

[TuscanyTile2]

Just now, Bobby816 said:

Doubt it’s a coincidence when it’s the day Rodgers and such are there.

Right.  That's no coincidence.  Though potentially it could be JD giving a head fake to increase BB's trade down value.

[Tranquilo]

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

Drafting a first-round WR is hard, and the hit rate here is historically lower than other positions. There's a 63 percent chance of drafting a bust or a reach.

So one out 3 WRs taken in the 1st round will come up snake eyes. 

 

Other than QB, the premium positions are the ones with the lowest hit rates. One of the reasons is volume. For the most part, you shouldn’t draft a safety or tight end in the first round. 

[Gastineau Lives]

3 minutes ago, Rich Thornburgh said:

If we are going this route all I’m saying is Odunze and Nabers are better options. 

No. No they’re not.

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 minute ago, Gastineau Lives said:

No. No they’re not.

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 minute ago, Tranquilo said:

Other than QB, the premium positions are the ones with the lowest hit rates. One of the reasons is volume. For the most part, you shouldn’t draft a safety or tight end in the first round. 

Not necessarily against drafting a TE but there are better prospects available at 10

[Tranquilo]

3 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

No. No they’re not.

Aight, relax

[slats]

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

Drafting a first-round WR is hard, and the hit rate here is historically lower than other positions. There's a 63 percent chance of drafting a bust or a reach.

So one out 3 WRs taken in the 1st round will come up snake eyes. 

 

The real outlier on that list is the QBs. Otherwise, it’s somewhat in order of positional value from lowest to highest. It’s not a huge surprise that low value positions taken with first round picks go on to be pro bowlers, because those guys have automatic name recognition - a significant advantage in a popularity contest. Higher value positions hit less, but when they do that’s what makes them high value positions. 

[Rich Thornburgh]

2 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

Aight, relax

This is getting out of control 

[jetstream23]

23 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agree completely and have been saying that for a while now too.  Even though he's on the hot seat I still think JD will have 1 eye on the future (as he should).  The 3 OL we acquired this offseason (Tyron Smith, Morgan Moses, John Simpson) are all on 1 year deals.  Same for WR2 Mike Williams.  That means next offseason we'll potentially have the exact same problems we went into this offseason with.  A trade down in this draft can still mean we get a talented OL plus a WR in round 2 (even if our trade down gets us a #3 and we trade both of our #3's to move to to round 2).

I think taking an OL isn't just a move for next year after Tyron Smith and Morgan Moses likely depart.  Yes, it's a longterm investment, but do we really think Smith and Moses are going to start 34 combined regular season games?  Would be shocked if they combine for more than 25 honestly.  That means you could need another OT to start something like 9 games this year.  Would be great to have a higher caliber OT prospect (not the mid-round Max Mitchell and Carter Warren types, but a 1st or 2nd rounder) to come along slowly behind Tyron Smith this year and see a perennial Pro Bowler in action.  Again, it's almost guaranteed that rookie would see a decent amount of playing time, likely more than Will McDonald saw, that's for sure.

 

[CTJetsFan]

NFL Network’s Peter Schrager reports the Jets are hosting Georgia TE Brock Bowers for a visit.

Bowers has long been rumored as a target for the Jets, who are in desperate need of an upgrade at tight end. In addition to needing to upgrade the position, the Jets are also expected to prioritize offensive weapons for Aaron Rodgers, as the team has a limited Super Bowl window with him at the helm alongside an elite defense. Bowers, who has been viewed as a top tight end in the nation for the last few years, didn’t work out at the combine or his pro day, caught 175 passes for 2,538 yards and 26 touchdowns during his three-year career at Georgia, and broke out as a true freshman with a line of 56-882-13. He’s a lock to be the first tight end off the board and could be there for the Jets when they pick at No. 10.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

15 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Doubt it’s a coincidence when it’s the day Rodgers and such are there.

You think they're trying to convince Bowers it's not such a terrible place to play?!

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I think taking an OL isn't just a move for next year after Tyron Smith and Morgan Moses likely depart.  Yes, it's a longterm investment, but do we really think Smith and Moses are going to start 34 combined regular season games?  Would be shocked if they combine for more than 25 honestly.  That means you could need another OT to start something like 9 games this year.  Would be great to have a higher caliber OT prospect (not the mid-round Max Mitchell and Carter Warren types, but a 1st or 2nd rounder) to come along slowly behind Tyron Smith this year and see a perennial Pro Bowler in action.  Again, it's almost guaranteed that rookie would see a decent amount of playing time, likely more than Will McDonald saw, that's for sure.

Agreed.  I've thought for a while now that think JD is going to try to trade down and take the OL in the 1st.  Then package what we get in that trade along with our 3rd rounder to get us back into the 2nd round, where he takes a WR.  

[Claymation]

Just now, Tranquilo said:

Other than QB, the premium positions are the ones with the lowest hit rates. One of the reasons is volume. For the most part, you shouldn’t draft a safety or tight end in the first round. 

Volume? The percentage tells us that 2 WRs drafted in the top 10 are going to disappoint. 

And yet KC's best receiver is a TE. TB won with Gronk. Kittles is pretty-pretty good.

This game has been changing for awhile now, and TEs provide the mismatch for most offenses.  

[BigRy56]

Bowersexuals, activate!

[TuscanyTile2]

2 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

You think they're trying to convince Bowers it's not such a terrible place to play?!

This area has beautiful swamps, in case you one day want to start a family.

[Sammybighead]

3 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

NFL Network’s Peter Schrager reports the Jets are hosting Georgia TE Brock Bowers for a visit.

Bowers has long been rumored as a target for the Jets, who are in desperate need of an upgrade at tight end. In addition to needing to upgrade the position, the Jets are also expected to prioritize offensive weapons for Aaron Rodgers, as the team has a limited Super Bowl window with him at the helm alongside an elite defense. Bowers, who has been viewed as a top tight end in the nation for the last few years, didn’t work out at the combine or his pro day, caught 175 passes for 2,538 yards and 26 touchdowns during his three-year career at Georgia, and broke out as a true freshman with a line of 56-882-13. He’s a lock to be the first tight end off the board and could be there for the Jets when they pick at No. 10.

Alol desperate need. National media has no clue. 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

Agreed.  I've thought for a while now that think JD is going to try to trade down and take the OL in the 1st.  Then package what we get in that trade along with our 3rd rounder to get us back into the 2nd round, where he takes a WR.  

Agree.  Plan A would be top 3 wr, plan B (more realistic) seems trade back if possible and take OL.  There’s a lot of wrs around day 2 and they may even trade up for one.  Though i saw the kiper/yates 3 round mock today and they had the jets taking fautanu and then a safety in round 3.  Oh joy. 

[T0mShane]

43 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

 

 

 

[Rich Thornburgh]

1 minute ago, Claymation said:

Volume? The percentage tells us that 2 WRs drafted in the top 10 are going to disappoint. 

And yet KC's best receiver is a TE. TB won with Gronk. Kittles is pretty-pretty good.

This game has been changing for awhile now, and TEs provide the mismatch for most offenses.  

He’s not as good as those guys

[Rich Thornburgh]

Just now, T0mShane said:

 

And Pitts is really a wide receiver 

[CTJetsFan]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

 

Very interesting,

[Claymation]

17 minutes ago, Tranquilo said:

Other than QB, the premium positions are the ones with the lowest hit rates. One of the reasons is volume. For the most part, you shouldn’t draft a safety or tight end in the first round.