DoubleDown Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 42 minutes ago, Mogglez said: Gonna be honest folks. Matt and I fundamentally disagree on a lot…but he is spot on here. If the gameplan was to truly let Wilson develop and not play in anything other than blowout wins, which seemed to be the case, they should have had someone like Jameis Winston or Tyrod Taylor locked in last year as QB2. There’s a lot that this regime doesn’t get credit for that they deserve credit for, but they completely and utterly botched last season for no good reason that can be explained away, under any circumstance. They took a calculated risk, and in my opinion, it was mostly financially motivated. They were already paying Zach alot of money, and it was fully guaranteed. They didn't want to take on another salary of a top end backup quarterback. Hindsight is 20/20. I probably would have made the same move and rolled the dice on Rodgers staying healthy and Zach getting a red shirt year or just some spot duty. Unfortunately, they rolled snake eyes. The Jets weren't going to do anything meaningful last year without Rodgers. The same holds true this year. Call me a pessimist, but I don't think having a Tyrod Taylor on the roster moves the needle all that much. Hardening up the offensive line will prove to be much more meaningful. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 7 minutes ago, rangerous said: Good point but they also had siemien for five weeks before they finally put him in. If he went in prior to Boyle maybe another one or two wins. I don’t see how they can excuse their record in the second half. Blame Zach? Okay but he still managed six wins and had a good game against the Texans. I don’t believe saleh was capable of pulling the team together. Yeah again with this adversity stuff. The Jets weren’t flying with Rodgers and then hit a wall when he got hurt. It happened as early as it was going to happen. There was no self reflection from anyone there in terms of how they were going to piece the season together. How is this adversity? It’s quitting. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alka Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 hour ago, bicketybam said: When Rodgers went down, his choices were Wilson and Boyle. Not sure what you are talking about. It is self inflicted if you don't get a backup QB who is capable of going out and playing at a high level if your #1 QB goes down. If you have no backup plan, then any injury you get becomes self inflicted. Now, if you had a legitimate backup QB to begin with, and both the #1 and #2 QB goes down, then that is a different story. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 The Jets were knowingly running out this and they’re telling us about adversity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 4 minutes ago, Alka said: It is self inflicted if you don't get a backup QB who is capable of going out and playing at a high level if your #1 QB goes down. If you have no backup plan, then any injury you get becomes self inflicted. Now, if you had a legitimate backup QB to begin with, and both the #1 and #2 QB goes down, then that is a different story. How many teams have a backup QB that can play at a high level and take their team to the playoffs if their QB1 goes out 4 plays into the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 7 minutes ago, bicketybam said: How many teams have a backup QB that can play at a high level and take their team to the playoffs if their QB1 goes out 4 plays into the season? We’re talking about competing. The offense was not competing with Zach Wilson. The defense was being forced to stand on its head. After the Chargers game something should have been done. The gap between Wentz and Wilson is massive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 hour ago, Mogglez said: If you watched the tape, the o-line played one of it’s best games in week 3, but got mauled in the stats department because Wilson refused to play fast and get rid of the ball on time. The o-line, throughout the whole season, was not great…but the QB play dragged them down to a substantially worse level. Trevor Siemian wasn’t fantastic, but he was leagues better than Wilson or Boyle pre-snap and it shouldn’t be a surprise that some of the OLs best games came with him under center. Against the Patriots? IIRC, their defense was still intact (not injured at multiple key positions) at that point and it was a very good one. The week after was much more telling when ZW went up against a terrific Chiefs' defense and outplayed Patrick Mahomes. The week after that was the Denver game when AVT got injured, and the OL essentially went down in flames from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 10 minutes ago, bicketybam said: How many teams have a backup QB that can play at a high level and take their team to the playoffs if their QB1 goes out 4 plays into the season? depends on the the maturity of the team and the coaching staff. the patsies did it twice. the jets nearly did it in 99. saleh is all over talking about how he wants his team to be violent but they're pretty soft in a number of ways. saleh set seven wins as the teams goal after rodgers went down. and boy is he lucky they faced a patsie team that was going no where in the final game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alka Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 19 minutes ago, bicketybam said: How many teams have a backup QB that can play at a high level and take their team to the playoffs if their QB1 goes out 4 plays into the season? Let's see, here is a list of 11 backup QB's, that not only took the team to the playoffs, but took the team to the Superbowl in that same year. If we just look at backup QB's who took their teams to the playoffs, the list would be much, much longer. Jim Plunkett Tom Brady Nick Foles Craig Morton Kurt Warner Roger Staubach Earl Morrall Doug Williams Jeff Hostetler Trent Dilfer Vince Ferragamo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeNamathsFurCoat Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 hours ago, Matt39 said: That’s more or less what the Jets did with letting Wilson sabotage this season. They allowed Wilson to sabotage 3 full seasons, while elite talents like GW, Q, Quincy, Breece, Sauce, DJR etc were essentially wasted. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 hour ago, Mogglez said: Gonna be honest folks. Matt and I fundamentally disagree on a lot…but he is spot on here. If the gameplan was to truly let Wilson develop and not play in anything other than blowout wins, which seemed to be the case, they should have had someone like Jameis Winston or Tyrod Taylor locked in last year as QB2. There’s a lot that this regime doesn’t get credit for that they deserve credit for, but they completely and utterly botched last season for no good reason that can be explained away, under any circumstance. I see it as the jets wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They banked on rodgers being healthy, but also they didn’t want to deal with Wilson’s undeniably poor performance or admit they were wrong. So they tried to hide him for a year and then reassess and it of course backfired. I find it hard to believe that the jets actually believed wilson would ‘develop’ last year behind rodgers. Generally, you know when a qb has it or doesn’t and there really was no evidence he was going to find it. If anything, last year’s fail showed that whoever was responsible for insisting that wilson remain - whether it was the gm’s hubris or woody’s owner interference - that poor decision making will backfire. Get rid of the crap as soon as you can. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogglez Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Just now, TuscanyTile2 said: Against the Patriots? IIRC, their defense was still intact (not injured at multiple key positions) at that point and it was a very good one. The week after was much more telling when ZW went up against a terrific Chiefs defense and outplayed Patrick Mahomes. The tape said otherwise. Missed wide open receivers, some of which would have scored touchdowns. Late on throws. Holding the ball too long, resulting in incompletions, sacks, hits, etc. Pretty much the same as it always was with Zach. KC was an outlier. Those happen. He's not that QB. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsons Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 hours ago, Matt39 said: Playing a quarterback who can’t play, however, was. He can only cook with the ingredients he was given. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 31 minutes ago, Matt39 said: We’re talking about competing. The offense was not competing with Zach Wilson. The defense was being forced to stand on its head. After the Chargers game something should have been done. The gap between Wentz and Wilson is massive. They beat the living sh*t out of the Texans with Zach Wilson and came really close to beating the Chiefs. They also beat the undefeated Eagles. But be that as it may, winning games after Rodgers went down was really a detriment to the team. They weren't winning a championship no matter who QB2 was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeNamathsFurCoat Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 LOL I’m sure there are a lot of places everyday employees “prefer to be” than at their jobs. There is going to be zero in fines and zero discipline / repercussions organizationally because AR8 runs the New York Jets. Saleh is a neutered puppet and happy to be a yes man as long as Woody’s checks clear. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 39 minutes ago, rangerous said: depends on the the maturity of the team and the coaching staff. the patsies did it twice. the jets nearly did it in 99. saleh is all over talking about how he wants his team to be violent but they're pretty soft in a number of ways. saleh set seven wins as the teams goal after rodgers went down. and boy is he lucky they faced a patsie team that was going no where in the final game. I wasn't talking historically. I was talking last year or even this year. And one of those Pats teams had Tom Brady as QB2. I also don't recall if Bledsoe went out 4 plays into the season. I don't think he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 hour ago, dbatesman said: Just speaking for myself, if Saleh got fired tomorrow, it wouldn't... phase me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said: LOL I’m sure there are a lot of places everyday employees “prefer to be” than at their jobs. There is going to be zero fines and zero discipline because AR8 runs the New York Jets. Saleh is a neutered puppet and happy to be a yes man as long as Woody’s checks clear. Quote Saleh is a neutered puppet and happy to be a yes man as long as Woody’s checks clear. No question about it. But the whole organization is really at AR8's mercy (from Woody Johnson on down). I don't think we know why he took the week off but it's really unfortunate that he would trample over the organization like that. And I say that as someone who is a big defender of the guy. I hope it was at least for something that he truly feels was necessary to do (e.g. something related to questioning vaccines or freedom from mandates, etc) as opposed to just "I really wanted to take a vacation those days". 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 5 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said: LOL I’m sure there are a lot of places everyday employees “prefer to be” than at their jobs. There is going to be zero in fines and zero discipline / repercussions organizationally because AR8 runs the New York Jets. Saleh is a neutered puppet and happy to be a yes man as long as Woody’s checks clear. They're fining him more than 100K. Other than that ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 49 minutes ago, Matt39 said: The Jets were knowingly running out this and they’re telling us about adversity Saleh said we "took the next step" after the season ended. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 22 minutes ago, Alka said: Let's see, here is a list of 11 backup QB's, that not only took the team to the playoffs, but took the team to the Superbowl in that same year. If we just look at backup QB's who took their teams to the playoffs, the list would be much, much longer. Jim Plunkett Tom Brady Nick Foles Craig Morton Kurt Warner Roger Staubach Earl Morrall Doug Williams Jeff Hostetler Trent Dilfer Vince Ferragamo You are a good poster so I won't be a dick. I asked how many teams lost their QB1 4 plays into the season and go on to make the playoffs. Go over your list and tell me which of those guys took over on the second offense series of the SEASON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 8 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said: LOL I’m sure there are a lot of places everyday employees “prefer to be” than at their jobs. There is going to be zero in fines and zero discipline / repercussions organizationally because AR8 runs the New York Jets. Saleh is a neutered puppet and happy to be a yes man as long as Woody’s checks clear. He skipped a day and a half. But you can call it a week if you want 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: No question about it. But the whole organization is really at AR8's mercy (from Woody Johnson on down). I don't think we know why he took the week off but it's really unfortunate that he would trample over the organization like that. And I say that as someone who is a big defender of the guy. I hope it was at least for something that he truly feels was necessary to do (e.g. something related to questioning vaccines or freedom from mandates, etc) as opposed to just "I really wanted to take a vacation those days". Leave the politics out of this please. There are a sh*tload of people that think what you think is a good reason is a terrible reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 13 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said: Saleh said we "took the next step" after the season ended. There were zero steps taken last year. I can’t believe these guys have been here this long with zero success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 21 minutes ago, bicketybam said: They beat the living sh*t out of the Texans with Zach Wilson and came really close to beating the Chiefs. They also beat the undefeated Eagles. But be that as it may, winning games after Rodgers went down was really a detriment to the team. They weren't winning a championship no matter who QB2 was. If you thought Zach was anywhere near close to competitive as a QB last year then we were watching different games. After the Chargers, it should have been an immediate shutdown. The Giants game for a QB in year 3 was also outrageous. The Eagles game the defense won. The Chiefs game he couldn’t handle a snap. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Quote Saleh, coordinator Nathaniel Hackett and the offensive coaches didn’t reinvent the wheel with the mini-bye they got from playing early on Thanksgiving weekend. In fact, they went the other way altogether. Instead of doing more, as having Rodgers would have allowed, the Jets committed to doing less. The coaches found that through playing the hand they were dealt at quarterback, and the injuries they endured at offensive line, there wasn’t enough they’d found a way to get truly good at as the season wore on. So the idea was to find those things, do them more regularly and see where the chips might fall from there. Why did it take them until December to figure this out? If they weren't going to bring in a backup on September 12th the entire plan should have been to pivot to doing whatever they could to make Zach Wilson less awful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustiniak Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 17 minutes ago, bicketybam said: He skipped a day and a half. But you can call it a week if you want 👍 Nothing rodgers does or doesn’t do in the offseason is going to impact how the jets do as long as he’s healthy. This is so irrelevant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rex-n-effect Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said: Why did it take them until December to figure this out? If they weren't going to bring in a backup on September 12th the entire plan should have been to pivot to doing whatever they could to make Zach Wilson less awful. It's Saleh's biggest problem. There's his plan and they must follow the plan. Adjusting in the short or long term is treated like a hail mary in the final seconds when the loss is obvious and probable. This is why my optimism about this season is severely tempered. Success depends on (avoiding injuries and) Rodgers's ability to adjust the offense at the line and fighting Saleh wanting to play a conservative and plodding offense. It's not a good sign when the players have to save the team from the coaches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 2 hours ago, Mogglez said: They could have been even stronger if we had a capable QB2 and made the playoffs last year. That’s not Salehs point He’s not excusing blame, he’s just pointing out the age old adage that you can learn something through adversity. He’s talking about his players getting something out of a lost season. It’s not that difficult to understand. We know, they F’d up the QB situation. Separate discussion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy and the Jets Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 The good news is after three disastrous seasons he is starting to learn and grow as a coach. At this rate should only take another 8-10 years, 20 excuses/rationalizations, and 30 slogans to get us to a nine win season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 1 minute ago, Jet Nut said: That’s not Salehs point He’s not excusing blame, he’s just pointing out the age old adage that you can learn something through adversity. He’s talking about his players getting something out of a lost season. It’s not that difficult to understand Apparently you can't learn from adversity if the adversity is your own doing 🤷 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted June 18 Author Share Posted June 18 4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: That’s not Salehs point He’s not excusing blame, he’s just pointing out the age old adage that you can learn something through adversity. He’s talking about his players getting something out of a lost season. It’s not that difficult to understand. We know, they F’d up the QB situation. Separate discussion F’ed up and self sabotage are not the same 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuscanyTile2 Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 40 minutes ago, bicketybam said: Leave the politics out of this please. There are a sh*tload of people that think what you think is a good reason is a terrible reason. Quote Leave the politics out of this please. Yes sir, Mr. Mod. Quote There are a sh*tload of people that think what you think is a good reason is a terrible reason. My point wasn't to discuss politics. Just that I hope it wasn't just something frivolous like "I really wanted to take a vacation that week". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicketybam Posted June 18 Share Posted June 18 Just now, TuscanyTile2 said: Yes sir, Mr. Mod. My point wasn't to discuss politics. Just that I hope it wasn't just something frivolous like "I really wanted to take a vacation that week". What was your example of not frivolous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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