Joe Douglas is not a "Terrible GM"

[Rich Thornburgh]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Not very confident in Corley 

Not confident in the wr group in general aside from Wilson

[JetsFlyer]

2 hours ago, kmnj said:

Big picture ? He has a 40 year old qb ? He has no big picture at all - all good rebuilds you build around a young qb that is the foundation of your team  ( he failed at that ) Arod was a last ditch effort to save his job and get a name guy for Woody - 

arod is 40 coming off a major injury playing on bad turf he will never make it through the season - I knew last year would not work and won’t this year 

Joe should have long ago kept Sam and traded for capital, if not gone with Lamar or even Carr 

Joe is in year 6 not one of the previous years has a Qb out performed Sam lol 

that was one of his better moves, getting what he got for a QB we ruined, sam needed to move on.  sam has done nothing yet  but imn pulling for him  great kid!

[doitny]

On 8/23/2024 at 9:04 AM, Integrity28 said:

You will be told “they hit the lotto at QB”, but that’s not actually the answer. They put the right people in charge and have aggressively pursued one good move after another, while drafting more good players.

Our GM has a terrible hit rate on draft picks in total, and his “moves” are mostly atrocious and/or laughable.

the Texans are an interesting comparison.

GM Nick Caserio took over in 2021. his 1st draft pick was David Mills in the 3rd rd who was so bad he lead the league in interceptions his 2nd year.

the Texans went 4-13 and 3-13-1 in his 1st 2 years. Nico Collins had 33 and 37 catches before Stroud came along.

just curious but was drafting Stingley over Sause drafting a good player? he cant stay on the field. if you were a Texans fan you would kill him for that one.

lets take a look at his great drafting.

they had 3 drafted starters last year on offense, Stroud, Tank and Collins.

the Jets had 4. Hall, GW, AVT and Tippman.

on defense they had Anderson, Stingley and Pitre.

we have JJ, and Sause. i will include Adams because he was a UDFA. 

GW and Hall are better than Tank and Collins. JJ and Anderson are even, Sause is better than Stingley and Adams gets a slight edge on Pitre. the numbers are similar except Adams has 3 INTs and Pitre none.

the difference in 10 wins to 7 wins is Stroud. otherwise i just dont see where Caserio is so much better than JD. oh and btw because i know people love to bring up the record JD has one more win that Caserio in the same time frame. 18 to 17.

 

 

[kmnj]

1 hour ago, JetsFlyer said:

that was one of his better moves, getting what he got for a QB we ruined, sam needed to move on.  sam has done nothing yet  but imn pulling for him  great kid!

Sam’s last year was better than any jet qb has had since he left lol- tells you just how bad Joe messed up at QB

[kmnj]

5 hours ago, doitny said:

its not just one its everybody. why you dont think this is a top 10 roster?

an average roster doesnt win 7 games with 3 QBs who wont be in the NFL by cut time on Tuesday.

yeah if we win 6 games with Rodgers you can fire him. if we win 8 or more games and miss the playoffs he should stay.

Browns had no qb went to the playoffs 

[doitny]

9 minutes ago, kmnj said:

Browns had no qb went to the playoffs 

really? Watson went 5-1 and Flacco went 4-1. 

but when they didnt have a QB like we did. you know PJ Walker, Jeff Driscol and Dorian Thompson- Robinson they went 2-4.

if Rodgers our starter played 6 games we would have went to the playoffs too.

[UntouchableCrew]

4 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Maccagnan brought in Ryan Fitzpatrick and Brandon Marshall and won 10 games. Joe Douglas hasn’t  even approached that. 
 

footnote- Brandon Marshall had the best individual season in Jets history maybe besides Gastineau.

.

If you’re trying to argue “big picture” this doesn’t make a ton of sense.

[UntouchableCrew]

4 hours ago, kmnj said:

Big picture ? He has a 40 year old qb ? He has no big picture at all - all good rebuilds you build around a young qb that is the foundation of your team  ( he failed at that ) Arod was a last ditch effort to save his job and get a name guy for Woody - 

arod is 40 coming off a major injury playing on bad turf he will never make it through the season - I knew last year would not work and won’t this year 

Joe should have long ago kept Sam and traded for capital, if not gone with Lamar or even Carr 

Joe is in year 6 not one of the previous years has a Qb out performed Sam lol 

I don’t really get what you’re trying to argue. I was pretty clear — the rebuild outside of QB has been pretty successful, the whiff on Wilson is brutal. IMO, let’s see what we do this year.

Your argument that “good rebuilds” center around a young QB — like, no sh*t. Obviously. Zach Wilson sucks.

If you want to tear it all down based on that I think that’s a pretty stupid take. The likelihood that Aaron Rodgers (even if he’s washed) has the best statistical QB season in Jets history this year is pretty high.

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

I don’t really get what you’re trying to argue. I was pretty clear — the rebuild outside of QB has been pretty successful, the whiff on Wilson is brutal. IMO, let’s see what we do this year.

Your argument that “good rebuilds” center around a young QB — like, no sh*t. Obviously. Zach Wilson sucks.

If you want to tear it all down based on that I think that’s a pretty stupid take. The likelihood that Aaron Rodgers (even if he’s washed) has the best statistical QB season in Jets history this year is pretty high.

The food on the Titanic was exquisite 

[JetsFlyer]

1 hour ago, kmnj said:

Sam’s last year was better than any jet qb has had since he left lol- tells you just how bad Joe messed up at QB

if youre argueing that he is better than zach wilson.. i agree  but thats a very low bar.. you need a shovel to find that bar

[Rhg1084]

 

 

[doitny]

40 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

 

 

that and Saleh needs to get credit too. he can develop defensive players. 

[Claymation]

 

[Integrity28]

14 hours ago, doitny said:

the Texans are an interesting comparison.

GM Nick Caserio took over in 2021. his 1st draft pick was David Mills in the 3rd rd who was so bad he lead the league in interceptions his 2nd year.

the Texans went 4-13 and 3-13-1 in his 1st 2 years. Nico Collins had 33 and 37 catches before Stroud came along.

just curious but was drafting Stingley over Sause drafting a good player? he cant stay on the field. if you were a Texans fan you would kill him for that one.

lets take a look at his great drafting.

they had 3 drafted starters last year on offense, Stroud, Tank and Collins.

the Jets had 4. Hall, GW, AVT and Tippman.

on defense they had Anderson, Stingley and Pitre.

we have JJ, and Sause. i will include Adams because he was a UDFA. 

GW and Hall are better than Tank and Collins. JJ and Anderson are even, Sause is better than Stingley and Adams gets a slight edge on Pitre. the numbers are similar except Adams has 3 INTs and Pitre none.

the difference in 10 wins to 7 wins is Stroud. otherwise i just dont see where Caserio is so much better than JD. oh and btw because i know people love to bring up the record JD has one more win that Caserio in the same time frame. 18 to 17.

 

 

Nothing to argue here, as these are facts. That said, I’m criticizing our GM for everything he’s done here - not just how many starters he’s drafted.

Look at the FA deals. Look at the moves made AFTER an investment was made in the QB.

Houston is an example of a GM learning from past mistakes. Joe is just more of the same. I think he is mediocre. I don’t need anyone to agree with me.

[Claymation]

24 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Nothing to argue here, as these are facts. That said, I’m criticizing our GM for everything he’s done here - not just how many starters he’s drafted.

Look at the FA deals. Look at the moves made AFTER an investment was made in the QB.

Houston is an example of a GM learning from past mistakes. Joe is just more of the same. I think he is mediocre. I don’t need anyone to agree with me.

What’s wrong with Williams, Kinlaw, Tyron Smith, Simpson, Clark, Reed and Thomas?

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, Claymation said:

What’s wrong with Williams, Kinlaw, Tyron Smith, Simpson, Clark, Reed and Thomas?

Nothing so far.

Let me spell this out a bit further.

Joe drafted Zach, gave him guys like Keenan Cole, Uzomah and Braxton Berrios…

Texans drafted Stroud, went out and got him Diggs, Dalton Schulz, and Mixon.

Not to mention how they’ve invested in their D. So, I’m not pointing this out to “prove” the Texans are better. I’m illustrating that our GM is mediocre and not worthy of praise for finally getting the team to this point. He basically has had 9 lives in his job here.

[Claymation]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Nothing so far.

Let me spell this out a bit further.

Joe drafted Zach, gave him guys like Keenan Cole, Uzomah and Braxton Berrios…

Texans drafted Stroud, went out and got him Diggs, Dalton Schulz, and Mixon.

Not to mention how they’ve invested in their D. So, I’m not pointing this out to “prove” the Texans are better. I’m illustrating that our GM is mediocre and not worthy of praise for finally getting the team to this point. He basically has had 9 lives in his job here.

Diggs wasn’t acquired until Stroud’s 2nd year. In Zach’s 2nd year they acquired GW and Hall.

and the Jets didn’t invest in their D?
JD’s biggest mistake was drafting Zach. After 2 years, he moved onto Rodgers. 

[slimjasi]

8 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Nothing so far.

Let me spell this out a bit further.

Joe drafted Zach, gave him guys like Keenan Cole, Uzomah and Braxton Berrios…

Texans drafted Stroud, went out and got him Diggs, Dalton Schulz, and Mixon.

Not to mention how they’ve invested in their D. So, I’m not pointing this out to “prove” the Texans are better. I’m illustrating that our GM is mediocre and not worthy of praise for finally getting the team to this point. He basically has had 9 lives in his job here.

Well, they also gave Zach Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall. Zach just wasn't ready to be a starting QB in the NFL. 

Also, the Jets defense was as good or better than Houston's during Zach's tenure. 

[slimjasi]

15 hours ago, doitny said:

the Texans are an interesting comparison.

GM Nick Caserio took over in 2021. his 1st draft pick was David Mills in the 3rd rd who was so bad he lead the league in interceptions his 2nd year.

the Texans went 4-13 and 3-13-1 in his 1st 2 years. Nico Collins had 33 and 37 catches before Stroud came along.

just curious but was drafting Stingley over Sause drafting a good player? he cant stay on the field. if you were a Texans fan you would kill him for that one.

lets take a look at his great drafting.

they had 3 drafted starters last year on offense, Stroud, Tank and Collins.

the Jets had 4. Hall, GW, AVT and Tippman.

on defense they had Anderson, Stingley and Pitre.

we have JJ, and Sause. i will include Adams because he was a UDFA. 

GW and Hall are better than Tank and Collins. JJ and Anderson are even, Sause is better than Stingley and Adams gets a slight edge on Pitre. the numbers are similar except Adams has 3 INTs and Pitre none.

the difference in 10 wins to 7 wins is Stroud. otherwise i just dont see where Caserio is so much better than JD. oh and btw because i know people love to bring up the record JD has one more win that Caserio in the same time frame. 18 to 17.

 

 

Yea, The Texans hit on Stroud and the Jets whiffed on Wilson. A (NYJ) tale as old as time. 

[jgb]

16 hours ago, JetsFlyer said:

if youre argueing that he is better than zach wilson.. i agree  but thats a very low bar.. you need a shovel to find that bar

[Joe W. Namath]

I for one cant wait to see how the d-i-s-e-a-s-e responds to the 13-4 div crown season that is coming up.

Watching all the nonsense negative threads yhey open during this run is going to be hysterical.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I for one cant wait to see how the d-i-s-e-a-s-e responds to the 13-4 div crown season that is coming up.

Watching all the nonsense negative threads yhey open during this run is going to be hysterical.

Being a SOJF is a symptom of the Jets fans are the best called “losing.”

If the Jets fans are the best is cured by winning, the symptoms will go away.

Edit: nice auto-substitution for the D word 😂 

 

[Joe W. Namath]

33 minutes ago, jgb said:

Being a SOJF is a symptom of the Jets fans are the best called “losing.”

If the Jets fans are the best is cured by winning, the symptoms will go away.

Edit: nice auto-substitution for the D word 😂 

 

I dont buy this for a minute.  I think many will get worse when we are winning.  You watch how miserable some will be while we are kicking ass.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

I dont buy this for a minute.  I think many will get worse when we are winning.  You watch how miserable some will be while we are kicking ass.

And your illness is that you completely forget how freaking happy Jets fans are when the Jets are winning.

[Claymation]

 

[sciond]

So what have we learned?

JD built a great 51 man roster

he whiffed on the one position, the QB

[kmnj]

2 minutes ago, sciond said:

So what have we learned?

JD built a great 51 man roster

he whiffed on the one position, the QB

yeah sure lets not act like becton over whirfs did not happen lol

[kmnj]

On 8/24/2024 at 8:11 PM, doitny said:

really? Watson went 5-1 and Flacco went 4-1. 

but when they didnt have a QB like we did. you know PJ Walker, Jeff Driscol and Dorian Thompson- Robinson they went 2-4.

if Rodgers our starter played 6 games we would have went to the playoffs too.

so now Flacco is a good qb lol and was he their QB 1?

[kmnj]

On 8/24/2024 at 9:04 PM, JetsFlyer said:

if youre argueing that he is better than zach wilson.. i agree  but thats a very low bar.. you need a shovel to find that bar

I am arguing that during joes entire tenure he could not get better production than Same gave him

Joe has failed at QB every single year the most important position in football

now he has a 40+ year old QB coming off a major injury playing on bad turf-it wont end well

 

[sciond]

3 minutes ago, kmnj said:

yeah sure lets not act like becton over whirfs did not happen lol

A lot people whiffed that year. That was the covid draft

SMDH at people who cherry pick like this...look at the roster he inherited and look what they have now.

You want Idzik back? Mac back?

He is the best we have had in a long time

[ToonforPrez]

31 minutes ago, sciond said:

A lot people whiffed that year. That was the covid draft

SMDH at people who cherry pick like this...look at the roster he inherited and look what they have now.

You want Idzik back? Mac back?

He is the best we have had in a long time

Sometimes you cannot reason with these people they are stuck in their ways.

[Integrity28]

On 8/25/2024 at 9:39 AM, Claymation said:

Diggs wasn’t acquired until Stroud’s 2nd year. In Zach’s 2nd year they acquired GW and Hall.

and the Jets didn’t invest in their D?
JD’s biggest mistake was drafting Zach. After 2 years, he moved onto Rodgers. 

 

On 8/25/2024 at 9:40 AM, slimjasi said:

Well, they also gave Zach Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall. Zach just wasn't ready to be a starting QB in the NFL. 

Also, the Jets defense was as good or better than Houston's during Zach's tenure. 

Fair points, by both of you. I still think Joe is mediocre at best. My Texans comparison however, might be ill-informed.

[Biggs]

On 8/24/2024 at 6:05 PM, doitny said:

the Texans are an interesting comparison.

GM Nick Caserio took over in 2021. his 1st draft pick was David Mills in the 3rd rd who was so bad he lead the league in interceptions his 2nd year.

the Texans went 4-13 and 3-13-1 in his 1st 2 years. Nico Collins had 33 and 37 catches before Stroud came along.

just curious but was drafting Stingley over Sause drafting a good player? he cant stay on the field. if you were a Texans fan you would kill him for that one.

lets take a look at his great drafting.

they had 3 drafted starters last year on offense, Stroud, Tank and Collins.

the Jets had 4. Hall, GW, AVT and Tippman.

on defense they had Anderson, Stingley and Pitre.

we have JJ, and Sause. i will include Adams because he was a UDFA. 

GW and Hall are better than Tank and Collins. JJ and Anderson are even, Sause is better than Stingley and Adams gets a slight edge on Pitre. the numbers are similar except Adams has 3 INTs and Pitre none.

the difference in 10 wins to 7 wins is Stroud. otherwise i just dont see where Caserio is so much better than JD. oh and btw because i know people love to bring up the record JD has one more win that Caserio in the same time frame. 18 to 17.

 

 

Davis Mills is actually a competent backup who was every bit as good as Zach coming out.  Getting a young solid 2 with upside potential in the third round is exactly what teams needing a QB should be doing. 

If JD had traded out of the 1 and taken Mills in the third along with signing a veteran QB the Jets would be a much better team today.  

Douglas actually had his first draft in 2020.  It was a bust.  Houston actually made the playoffs because Caserio didn't draft a bust QB after drafting a bust Left Tackle the year before. 

You also ignore that Douglas drafted Zach after trading Darnold to be the Jets answer at QB.  That's a very big deal.

You also ignored the HC and coaching staffs that the 2 GM's hired.  

[varjet]

3 hours ago, sciond said:

So what have we learned?

JD built a great 51 man roster

he whiffed on the one position, the QB

• On QB, its not like JD picked ZW over another QB who was better.   He reached for a QB when he should not have.  I think Woody encouraged that.  
• How do you get a QB?:
  • You can stink and pick high, and have a QB available.    There were no good QBs available when the Jets picked at 2.  The Texans got Stroud at 2 (but the Panthers helped on that).    Or you can trade (alot) to pick a QB.  That often works out, as with Josh Allen.  
  • You can pick smart lower.  
    • In 2020 JD could have picked Love or Hurts, or CeeDee Lamb.  Not Becton.  what a bad reach pick.
    • There were no realistic QB options in 2021.
    • In 2022, the Jets had a great draft in the first round.  Purdy, Zappe and Howell were around much later (one good, the others serviceable).
    • In 2023 the Jets could have picked Hooker, O'Connell or Levis as a developmental QB.  I don't think they missed anything.
  • In 2024 rather than Olu we could have picked McCarthy, or Nix, or later Rattler.  We took Travis.   He is red-shirting this year.  We have seen that it does not make sense to pick a QB without a LT, so maybe Olu was the right pick.
• Or you can trade for a QB, or sign one in FA.   If AR8 gets the Jets deep into the playoffs this year, the trade compensation was probably ok.   Two more years a home run.  

So all in, JD gets a decent grade for filling the QB slot for the Jets.  I think he regrets pushing too much of AR8's compensation back in later years-that is a class win-now desperation move.   Maybe if we can get out of Reddick this year, he restructures AR8 to pay him more this year (or we just carry forward Reddick's salary to 2025.

I also think that JD should have done a "Jordan Love" with either McCarthy or Nix to have a QB waiting when AR8 is finished.    But I don't think AR8 is going quietly off into the sunset.  He will stop playing when he literally can't play anymore.  

[Rich Thornburgh]

3 hours ago, sciond said:

So what have we learned?

JD built a great 51 man roster

he whiffed on the one position, the QB

Zach by himself gets 9 out of every 10 General Managers fired

 

JD is lucky the owner was himself a ZW Justice Warrior